A huge thanks to Superbike Factory for their support! You can find all their stock here, including some great deals on almost new bikes like the GS featured in this video: tinyurl.com/2m7ydhaj
@@SimonBrisbane not a bmw eighter 😊. When l worked at a dealership for bmw triumph suzuki yamaha harley Davidson , guess what was most present on the lift?!.. Yess.. Bmw.
Hi Bob. I got something to say.. This video is brilliant! Perfect light , perfect angels on the cameras, perfect lenght and you speak loud and clear and not so fast so us foreners can understand what you are saying. You are in my top 3 spot! Keep it up, im already excited for your next video 👍🏻
I’m definitely on the Tiger team. In respect to price, shouldn’t you have compared the Tiger Explorer model to the GSA? 30 litre tank and wire wheels for example. The GT Pro was probably a better comparison for the GS in the video. Just my opinion however I’m heavily biased to the Tiger 😁
I think both are fantastic bikes, but the Tiger takes it for me. Regarding comfort, I've only taken both for a 1 hour test ride, but I found Tiger much more comfortable. I have quite large feet and kept kicking the boxer engine. I found my legs were much more bent on the GS, which caused a bit of cramping. Then trying to stretch out was difficult due to the engine being in the way.
If Triumph had given me a better test ride/dealer impression, I probably would have bought one. They didn't though, and BMW were reasurringly professional and patient, so they got by business. With so little to choose between the bikes, the "living with" component and knowing that I'm going to get looked after if and when things go wrong, is worth the cost for me.
I have to agree with you about dealer experiences. Here in Reno, NV (USA) there is a night & day difference between the BMW dealer and the Triumph dealer, in favor of BMW. So, BMW got my business. In order for me to deal with that other dealer, they would have to have THE bike that I absolutely could not resist. Even then, I would dread the relationship with the service department to follow.
yes it truly is sickening, I have been patiently waiting for 3 years now to test ride any tiger and it cant be had here in toronto/ canada I dont care for the looks and whats on the paper when it comes to my bikes I care about how they make me feel, I am super heartbroken over Triumph not allowing test rides I have a test ride of BMW coming up in a month and seems this is the route I am going to take if I do like how it feels.
Same experience here. Asked a triumoh dealer to test ride the floor model and they looked at ne like i was crazy! Went to bmw same day and encouraged me to take their floor model out for a cruuse. Even told me a good place to stop and eat. Brought a gsa home at the end of the day.
Triumph is an iconic brand and one that I am proud to ride. That does not mean that there is anything wrong with BMW, they also build fantastic machines. I test rode both and felt that the Tiger had more grin factor and character.
I own the 2023 Triumph GT Explorer and it is amazing! I've ridden the BMW and it is bland in handling and character. I traded my previous Tiger XCX for the new one. Vibration? Not an issue. Feature for feature, it is the best ADV bike out there.
Great review! Objective and professional. And I say this despite the fact that the Triumph won by a hair, while I'm actually a 1250 GS HP rider (my 7th GS, since "96). I stuck to BMW because of the better dealer support in the Pacific NW. Not many dealers, but they stand behind their product. No questions asked, never giving me a hard time, just going out of their way to keep me loyal to the brand for 26 years now.
Test drove both. I ended up with the GS. Three main reasons: - The Tiumph build quality wasn't what I expected - The vibration, reminded me my S1000XR. - The BMW keeps its price better. It was a hard call, as both are great bikes, yes, while adding running costs, insurances and depreciation the GS is a much better option (for me). Ride safe
@@raysen623when buying new you can do a service plan upto 50k Miles and 5 years at £1000 which works out at £200 a year. That's cheaper then my Tracer GT
I don't have either but have had my eye on the Tiger 1200 Rally Explorer since it was launched. There's just something about the Tiger I can't explain but draws me in. Maybe because it's not so popular but I'd love to own one.
Had a Tiger 900 RP. Best bike I've ever owned. Switched to a T1200 RP. Although the Showa system is much more sophisticated than the ESA, the T1200 RP seems to be unbalanced when it comes to stable driving. The bike has a tendency to shimmy (dealer tried everything to solve the issue but just couldn't find the problem), it's very difficult to get onto the center stand, difficult to get off the center stand when on a smooth service and the vibrations and lack of proper wind protection are really annoying on long tours. So I switched to a T1200 GT Explorer. Better road handling and cornering, no shimmy effect, getting it on and off center stand was much easier but the vibrations and lack of wind protection are the same (of course). For my type of riding (long tours) the vibrations, buffeting and the seats (too soft on both T1200's) were ultimately the reasons I switched to the 1250GSA. Doing 650 kilometers on a day with the 1250 is easy. You come home after 9 hours of riding only to want to go for just a few hours more. Where as the T1200 just doesn't offer the same comfort. I love the 1250GSA but I hate the BMW brand and the way BMW treats it's customers. If only Triumph would have given the Tiger a smoother engine and a bit more long touring capabilities I would have never switched to BMW.......
I’ve owned 2 Beemer GSs and 1 Triumph Tiger Trail so I think I’d go for the BMW based on experience, reliability. Still wish I’d kept my R80GS Paris Dakar with its 32 litre tank. The R100GS off road was a classic case of bigger is not necessarily better.
Interesting, I've watched your videos on these bikes. I'm considering both, but the Tiger gives me pause because my nearest dealer is 3 hours away. BMW dealer is 1 hour away. I will do all of my own service though so only concern is warranty issues.
@@chasingtrail my dealer who sells both says triumph will honor warranty for home repairs with proof while BMW must be done at dealer…FWIW I live in USA
@@freeheelsak Interesting. I had an R1250R previously and my dealer said it was fine to do home repairs, just save my receipts. They can't force you to do service at the dealer because of the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act. Harley is being sued for this now. To deny a warranty claim the burden of proof is on the manufacturer to prove that something you did caused the failure, otherwise they must honor the warranty. This is my understanding of it all, anyway.
I've never owned or ridden either one and based on your review, I'd have a tuff time deciding between the two..looks like you couldn't go wrong either way!
Disagree on the T Plane Vibration, did 2300 mile trip to Switzerland and back on the triumph and can say i never had any tingling through the bars or pegs whilst touring. The bike i took was a Tiger 1200 Rally Explorer.
One other point: ease of picking up in the event of a drop? GS. I say this as an owner of a 2016 XCA Explorer, though to be fair the weight difference in this iteration is immediately evident in practice, not just in theory. That radar, though...it's a good thing to have.
Just bought a 2023 Tiger Gt Explorer 1200. It's a lot of fun. The throttle mapping at low speeds is kind of tricky, but I have no regrets. The dealer also sells and services BMWs. The service manager recommends Triumph over BMW for mechanical reliability.
I'm in the process of deciding now, and after a test ride of the Tiger, the throttle mapping at low speeds has me worried. Low speed cornering in traffic is something that I would have to get used to. Also, maintaining a constant speed without being on and off the throttle - maybe it's just me. I'll go for a test on the GS soon and see if it suits my style better for these things.
I think the re-sale value of the GS will give the Tiger a good hiding. I am amazed at how the GS's hold their value, and how fast the Triumphs drop in value. At least in markets outside the UK...
I don't ever want a T plane crank triple. If an engine is 1200 cc, it'd have enough torque, without making it lumpy and feel like it is misfiring . I love 120 degree triples .
And that is because you never tried one. 😉 The 900 one is brilliant (and still very smooth until 5500 rpm) and the vibrations only add to the feeling of being on a motorcycle and not driving a car like motorbike.
@@Motosadik I have test ridden the 900 T plane crank. I've also owned 120 degree triple engines. I really don't like the T plane crank, it is a pointless miss balancing of the engine.
After three GSs, one a 1250 GSA I ‘downsized’ to a chain driven Multistrada V2S, I’ve had a Triumph Explorer too, but I still prefer the light weight and sporty handling of the Multi V2S, quicker handling too…
I'd go with the beamer evry time, not because it's better but because I've had so many shite experiences with Triumph , their build quality and customer service that the last time was the last time I will ever buy a Triumph.
Perhaps it’s an individual dealer thing as the Isle of Man triumph dealer is fantastic whereas our bmw dealer doesn’t offer any servicing (sales only) and recommends other firms for any servicing or repairs😢
The Tiger for me. I've ridden 10,000 on a T plane crank Tiger 900 with speeds 80 to 85 mph without any thought about vibration being an issue. Trips of 1000, 1800 and 2500 miles. If the consideration for touring was dead smooth then the Goldwing is the best. Does the Tiger vibrate more than the GS? Absolutely but not in a bad or intrusive way. The GS vibrates more than a Goldwing but it doesn't disqualify it from being a touring bike. GS owners will never admit to any bike being better or even as good, it isn't in their DNA or the BMW mind set of being a cut above the rest of the world.
I have never ridden a bike like this. I have to say, coming from the dirt bike world, the thought of riding and jumping! a 550 lb bike like these off road is hard to even imagine.
I've ridden road bikes for over 30 years with only 15 minutes on a dirt bike before I even had a bike license. I wouldn't dream of taking either of these behemoths off road. Too tall and too heavy for my liking. Since I'd not go off road on them their height especially would be a big turnoff. The more sport touring version of the BMW would be more suitable if I was interested in doing huge amounts of km's. Which here in Australia is the norm if you do any sort of touring.
This is a quality review. It would be awesome to see you add lifetime cost to account for maintenance and reliability (e.g., maintenance intervals, etc.) as a criterion versus just the purchase price as well as extensibility (i.e., how much aftermarket support exists for each brand) as a criterion. I think there are tradeoffs for the latter--how much you have to spend customizing your bike to get it the way you want it (maybe feeling "nickle and dimed") versus how much you're able to customize your bike with aftermarket products.
I've been on both the bikes and definitely know that tiger can no way come near a GSA. Tiger can catch up everywhere except in engine & the tele lever front suspension. Rest of the areas of course you can compare it. Also in hot weather only the boxer engines don't produce massive heat. When globe trotting it's really important ride a bike that produces lesser heat and makes you tired faster.
Hondas Africa Twin is killer of these bikes for someone who will ride it often, hard and long. Much less in numbers (kWs, Nm), but in feel how behave on/ off road - he is real winner.
I'm into upgrading from my 750 GS to one of these. At the moment my eyes are on the 1250 GS, which I tested and I felt at home. I shall try the Tiger soon.
A couple of years ago I went to the local Triumph dealer to test a Tiger and buy one. I had booked a test drive but when I arrived they said sorry a journalist had taken the test bike out. I had driven an hour from my home town to get there: I was as mad as a snake and got back in my vehicle and drove home. But in a way I am glad, I think the new 1200 is a vast improvement and is back on my wish list.
i find the telelever front end as on other bm's the further you lean the bike the more vague the [feel] on the front end becomes, rode the 1200 triumph its very very good plus it feels lots lighter than the bm.
Vanakam from India 🙏. Here the Gs is a huge hit. We get two types off the production line. One via Thailand that ships with the seat lowering kit and the full stock from Germany. The tiger 900 is a bigger hit in that segment. But the Gs comes with it’s own sickness which is the throttle body clogging due to the excessive dust all over the country. Requires cleaning every 2k kms. Otherwise I even use it as a everyday commuting bike and it handles like butter. Cannot say the same for the tiger. Excellent review bob. I pretty much dream of putting content like yours in my mother tongue Tamizh .cheers bro 😎
@@jcb1619 i have a demographics of the sale of both. I work closely with both dealers. The 900 out sells the 1200 tiger. And the Gs outsells the tiger 1200. They have killed the tiger market more by launching the 1300yestedray. There is a waiting period till December. As for which world i live in... i live in a world filled with motorcycles. Looks like you are a Jcb guys. So try to stick to excavators and dumpers 😅
Traded my BMW GSA in May for a new KTM 1290 Super Adventure S. Thought this would be one for a few years. Then came along the Triumph Tiger 1200 Rally Explorer. Well, just traded the KTM for one. Best bike ever owned (46 years of riding).
Great review. Tough call. I purchased the Tiger 1200 GT Explorer for all of your reasons stated. Had a KTM 1290 which was a little too vibby and mechanical (noise) for me with less than sharp shifting. I hope the Triumph is comfortable and reasonably powerful. Love the sound of the triple. I am a little concerned about the vibby again though.
Even though I do off-road riding on much smaller dirt oriented ADV bikes (DR 650 and AJP PR7 600) the BMW would take my vote over the Tiger due to the vibrations at higher speeds with the Tiger. I have fellow riders that have extensive experience on both models. Even though I am 6 foot tall and 200 pounds, both bikes are way too big of a mass for me to consider them.
I own a 2019 r1250gs and based on this I would have been liable to walk into Triumph and buy the Tiger. But at this price point it's the whole package. It's reliability, MPG, aftermarket support, parts value, servicing deals/intervals and most of all customer support. Triumph don't have a good reputation (nor do BMW on the whole) but in my location the BMW dealership are great. I've been to Triumph and had a poor experience. So while I agree that on these categories alone the tiger nudges out in front; when you take it all into consideration I think BMW still have the market...and my money.
On the switchgear, I had a previous gen Tiger 1200 and now have an R1250RS. The backlit controls were nice on the Triumph, but the little joystick wasn't nearly as nice as the control wheel on the BMW.
Agreed. I wish Triumph would rethink the joystick. It is fiddly, sticks frequently, and breaks easily. 2 bikes in a row with it and I sort of hate it at this point.
At this level, both bikes are very nice but in the looks department I'd vote for the Tiger. And I agree, muscle memory not-withstanding, I think most bikes should have backlit switchgear. Also, most reviews don't even talk about this but I would like to hear about headlight performance. Kind of critical at night. Any thoughts on which of these is better in that regard?
Bob, great comparison of these two. One thing I hear time and time again is the notion that the T plane (or 270 degree in twins) somehow translates to more bottom end grunt. It doesn’t. All it does is give “character” and, in the triple, more vibration. I rode a Tiger 900 recently and that’s how it felt. The torque (and hence power) curve is determined by many factors such as compression ratio, valve timing and ignition timing, not the firing sequence. The GS is certainly smoother but feels thrashy in the higher rev range. I have an ATAS, by the way, and the 270 crank is actually annoying from a vibration perspective, not mechanical as such but the uneven power pulses at lower revs where it should be able to lug along. Keep up the great work. Cheers, Ian
Am important aspect of these bikes is their ability to ride long distance with a pillion fully loaded with luggage - I cannot comment on the Tiger having not been able to test it under these conditions yet, but having done numerous such trips on the 1200 and 1250 GS I can confirm that it is sublime. The Telever/paralever combination with automatic ride height adjustment and dynamic damping makes such trips a breeze. What is the Tiger like fully loaded with pillion and luggage on 400+ mile days?
Replaced my 2013 Triumph Trophy, which I put 97,000 miles on, with a GT Explorer earlier this year. Got 11,000 miles on that with no issues. Just never fancied a German Klunkenwaggon.
I own a gen 3 Tiger(2019) and it is better than this latest version so I don't know why they had to mess with it, other than to compete in an existing market with the BMW brand. Here are the things they didn't need to change: Engine - why make the engine more vibey when it was already smooth as silk and just needs a few more revs lower down than the thumper GS. Windscreen electric adjustment gone, plasticky brake and clutch pots, clutch lever hydraulics exposed, rear wheel extra swing arm, and front end looks ( they've made it look more like a scooter), honestly why mess with perfection?
After test riding a tiger yesterday i found compared to my gsa was the throttle around town was really snatchy also the gearbox felt quite sloppy the bottom end compared with my bike was none existant. The tft looked better in real life than on videos but the buttons were not that good i also felt like i was leaning to the bars the qs was i would say ok at best. Also whilst it felt better than older triumphs it still didnt feel special like the bmw
The GS will undoubtedly hold its value better than the Tiger, it's far easier to pick up if you were to drop it, and the engine doesn't sound like a bag of spanners on tick over. Not big points if considered on their own but significant when put together.
Yep. I sold my Tiger 900 RP and bought a R1250 GSA. Having dropped it 5-6 times already trying to get it out of a creek, I can confirm it’s much easier to pick up. With the Tiger I needed a winch after picking it up the first or second time. Imagine how much harder the Tiger 1200 would be.
As a Speed Triple owner, I love Triumph... But it needs to be 120 degrees firing order. That's the way a triple is supposed to be. You can't beat it! Such a beautiful sound!!
Your such a Triumph fanboy. There is no way you would get better handling from the 21inch front end of the Tiger. I had the Triumph 900 GT Pro which was excellent. I now have a 1250GS Triple Black. I love it more every time I ride it :)
I have a 2018 tiger 1200 xRT With 96000 miles I do oil changers filters and tires And I'll beat all of my friends with the BMW GS BMW you pay for the name that's it
Great review! I have been riding the Tiger 1200 XCa for the past 5 years and have absolutely loved it! Never owned a bike that long before. I have a testride planned on the GT Exporer this friday and my gut tells me I will own one soon ;-)
A factor which seems to be overlooked in just about all of these decisions, decisions, decisions determinations is the dealer scheduled servicing costs, particularly the 'big' service. Dealers typically have pre-set pricing of these - perhaps that's because they all charge around the same rip-off price? In my country, the customer cannot do their own scheduled servicing (eg. oil changes) in order to maintain warranty.
I have a '17 versys1000LT right now and I am looking for an upgrade. The wife and I ride 2up 99% of the time the bike leaves the garage. I plan on getting a 1250GSA for the large fuel/luggage capacity. I don't do much off-roading so the 21" front wheel on the tiger isn't for me. I would rather have the torque and the sound of the opposing twin, paired with the lower center of gravity. I used to have an '09 sv650sf, and the engine breaking of the GSA is great, reminded me of the SV. I recently test rode both and I greatly appreciated the suspension and the ESA of the BMW.
I have test c riven the Tiger 1200 Rally pro, for me it was a great ride, however there are a couple of issues. Vibration not really an issue but the bike was quite lame in hair pin bends. The fork dive in the Rally pro version was extreme to say the least when emergency braking. But for me the price would be the killer for the Tiger 1200. My normal bike is a BMW F 800 GS as I do a lot of mountain touring in the Black Forest region of Germany and Sud Tirol
GS and I did and partly because of the dealer service My experience with Triumph dealers is that they're a little patchy but never had a BMW dealer issue
Never thought a dealership will have any effect about what I like, me personally, I'm quite sure about myself and what I like, the rest is subjective to single instances.
Good review, many thanks. Is there any way that you could have incorporated say a year or two of servicing costs?, these days most vehicle manufacturers have programmed maintenance at a more or less fixed price and sometimes servicing can be hugely expensive. I remember doing valve check/adjust on Alfa Romeo cars with the v6 Busso engines at the 10k/6,000 mile service and it was an all day job, plus parts, customers were shocked when they got a huge bill for what was essentially the first service they had to pay for.
Tried the Tiger 1200 GT last week and found it far too vibey, and had horrible fork dive. If speed is your thing then it's up there with the Multistrada I reckon and the handling was good. Speed not important for me I keep my sportsbike for that. The poor tft and the urine sample bottle finished it for me.
Excellent review. I've done many touring miles on hired GSs, but own a Gen 3 Tiger. Tried the Gen 4 but for me they've made a big mistake with the T-plane crank. Compromising road ability for better traction on dirt simply feels wrong, and if they'd made the new triple with a 120 degree crank, I'm sure Bob's scoring would have given the Triumph an easier win. And maybe tempted more buyers away from the BMW showroom.
Both set the bar on Adventure motorcycles. I would be interested in the maintenance cost for the BMW GS 1200 . I was looking at the HD Pan American, what put me off was the overall maintenance cost. Trying to negotiate a price on a 2023 Pan American to the HD sales manager included a $3500 maintenance plan into the price . I initially thought that was absurd, but he reported to me that every service on a Pan American would be between $500 to $800 dollars. That killed the deal for me...
The gs is closer to the gt pro than the rally. Mainly because they both have the 19 inch front tire.. the rally has a 21 inch front so it's more off road focused
The real winner is neither of them. Get a midrange bike instead. Just as much fun, 30-50Kg lighter, at least £5K cheaper, lower running costs (insurance, servicing, fuel). And chain/belt driven bikes just feel so much better, with a more direct drivetrain feel and a better suspension action due to much lower unsprung weight. To this day I’ve never ridden a bike at night and wished for backlit switchgear. It’s not a car FFS…
Triumph triple engine is a gem .i have known a few lads who bought bmws rode through winter months and frame rotted painted poor on bmw my 2000 triumph is as good today as when i bought it 22 years ago so on that triumph is my choice
