BoJack vs 13 Reasons Why: How to Portray Mental Illness 

They're extremely close-minded, then, with their approach to TV and art in general.

Bragglord exactly that’s why I hate when someone brings up how serious or impressively intelegent the show can be but the there’s always that one person to say yeah but it’s about a talking horse

@@bdawgg2157 they can go back to Eastenders to watch 'real drama'. Another thing that bugs me about live action vs animation: some people (especially of the older generations) would think it weird for someone in their 20s to be watching an anime (regardless of how serious said anime was) because it was a 'cartoon', yet they would see nothing wrong with the same person going to watch Avengers at the cinema. That's one thing I do prefer about eastern perspectives of art: animated forms are given more credence. It seems distinctly western to suggest that making something animated makes it less serious.

Bragglord exactly it can just be bizzare how true that is sometimes

I had a lot of trouble getting some of my family around to watching bojack horseman and I think it’s finally starting to grow on them so maybe they’ll finally learn this lesson as well because I feel like they’ve always been some to share the point of view that if it’s a cartoon it can’t be serious

Tbh yeah

yup ;;;

Yeah

exactly

literally

A good work of art should speak for itself, and not be hyped up by its creator.

The worst part is that 13 reasons why os horrible at what the producers are saying it is. The show is important because it's telling the media and everyone what not to do, but does shitty at raising awareness and shit. Bojack horseman is so much better and is genuinely important unlike the shit show that is 13 reasons why

I agree! The creator of Bojack just says that he's proud of what he made and he should be.

Also, adding stuff here: when you are full of yourself you tend to do laziest jobs because you are not willing to hear criticism and correct stuff, while keeping yourself humble and refining your conceptions and adimitting you mistakes helps you improve your craft. Raphael Bob understands this, so much that they address in their own show how shitty people use fictional characters to excuse their shitness to themselves, but people who made 13 Reasons aren't willing to adimit their mistakes and even worse are always ready to double down

13 Reasons also glamorizes the suicide by depicting it. THERE WERE COPYCAT SUICIDES FOLLOWING THE RELEASE WHERE PEOPLE RECORDED TAPES AS WELL. Mental health experts say you should NEVER show the suicide because it glamorizes it, and even if it doesn't by some stroke of luck, then it's still implanting that image into impressionable minds. 13 Reasons was aimed at a younger audience still and mental health experts have laid out some general "rules" to avoid, and 13 Reasons broke them all. It's honestly very graphic and IMO, horrific. I saw one episode and it was pretty difficult to watch, what with the suicide being graphically depicted (I've struggled with this myself) as well as other things such as rape. Closest thing we really got to rape in BoJack was when that one mouse dude said to Diane and Courtney Portnoy "Maybe I should stick something in that mouth to make you not talk so much" (or whatever the line was) which was immediately followed up with Courtney pulling out her gun. Closest we got to the suicide of BoJack was 1) seeing him face down, motionless, in a pool in the episode "View from Halfway Down", 2) The scene where he let go of his steering wheel in the canyon before he saw the horses OR 3) the title sequence, but we also see him on a floaty in his pool directly following that, so I'm not sure if these can be counted since 1) there was no actual death and 2) there was no brutal scene depicting it. What offends me most is the glamorization and depiction of suicide, basically saying "If you kill yourself in a brutal manner and make tapes blaming everyone, you can get your revenge" and that's such a fucked up premise for a show. Further, IMO, it glamorizes mental health which is the ABSOLUTE LAST thing we need in a society that encourages a victim mindset where if you have a mental illness, you're just supposed to give up ever doing anything about it. 13 Reasons is an incredibly toxic show for many many reasons and I can't believe they got a Season 2, nor can I see WHY they would have gotten a season 2, but hey I digress.

that episode is one of my favorites omg

The free churro episode hits different

I need to tell someone this but that ending of that episode made me laugh and also kinda disappointed coz he didn't go to the right parlor and didn't talk to the right coffin but I laughed so hard after that

"My mother is dead, and everything is worse now."

@@grimdhraa4623 is part of the magic of the show, that immaculate dark humor

Well, that is in term to proper writing, and possibility to expand. Bojack, Rick and Morty, Adventure Time, Gravity Falls, MLP, all these tackle issues from times to time. (MLP and Bojack more so due to the shows they are. Educational, but comical. Emotional, but with it's hint of comedy.)

StarWarsftw12 my little pony, Are you fuckin kidding me?

I know I'm probably gonna get hate for this but dudes chill out a bit because he kinda does have a point. Obviously there's more shows that he could've used as an example other than mlp but as a person who once been a younger *girl* into mlp I do remember it carrying good messages.

@@bobtheball5384 mlp obviously does not carry messages that are as HEAVY as the ones in BoJack, however I still see more subtle messages that are targeted for a younger audience

Scientifict fact confirmed by every university in the United States, United Kingdom, Germany and Japan: Animated shows are the best.

And they said cartoon is for children

Now with 13RW is just a try hard series that has pretentious and unnecessary writing that's not from the original book.

The difference is actually good writing

hahhahaha. i agree though

Emilio Hidalgo so true

Tobalaboba both reasons should not be valid tho

@@thefreaks2811 Hannah is a bitch especially to Clay.

@@thefreaks2811 that might be so. but the way its been portrayed in the show seems less of her trying to explain what she did and making others realize that and more her getting revenge on them and hurting them

@@thefreaks2811 that may be. but it doesnt change the fact that that's how she comes off. i'm not saying her purpose was revenge or place blame. that's just how she seems and they shouldn't have portrayed her like that

@@thefreaks2811 i get that. thats not the point. the point is that others might not get that. especially if they dont think too much abt it. and thats where the problem lies. the directors of the show aren't very good at portraying suicide or depression and thats a fact

One is someone dying, and the other is someone experiencing death.

@@Delta_Aves no bojack was dying but because of the family that lived in the house called 911 and bojack was saved

The view from halfway down was so beautiful.

Experts in the field of psychology and mental health strongly advise against showing suicide scenes because it glorifies it, and they were right. Do a lil research and you'll find some copycat suicides that recorded tapes. They didn't slit their wrists, but the outcomes was the same. I know that one person tragically jumped from a building. It's incredibly sad.

@@dylanbroomes5597 Yes, he's right. View from Halfway Down is BoJack experiencing death. Herb (or his dad/Secretariat) even says "This is what your brain feels it has to go through". BoJack nearly died and if they had come home any later, he probably would have sustained lasting brain damage, if he wasn't already too far gone.

yes! and i thought i would add that she appears as a ghost/apparition in season 2 to clay and has conversations with him about whats going on as is she never died in the first place.

I kinda thought, that she didnt die and would come back at the end.

I read the book and it has a lot better effect than the show, just like always, the translation from paper to screen has ruined it for everyone

@@alissaharris37 Preach 🙌

Ikr

Browning Bros I should really watch it

Bickslow'sLover Harlequin yes, yes you should

Same can be said about Steven's universe.

Exactly, I started watching it simply by seeing its cover over a netflix ad lol (cause I liked its art style) Truly one of the best cartoons and series ever.

are there any shows i can watch that are similar to bojack horseman?

and it sucks that TRW is the show that’s going to be shown to teens and appeals to teens, who are the most impressionable while BH is going to reach less teens :(

@@theperson5205 For real! I feel that BoJack could do something good if it was more mainstream. It's incredibly sad that it got cancelled, but 6 seasons is still a good run.

@@cwcpants140 it's a really good run for a netflix show

@@cwcpants140 It wasn't cancelled, it ended

@@peterwalsh2897 ok

What I can't get over is how it actually inspired copycat suicides and it STILL got a season 2. That shit just absolutely baffles me. As someone who's dealt with suicidal tendencies and depression, 13 Reasons did nothing productive. The show is intense, incredibly graphic and as you said, it glorifies suicide. Experts in the field say you should NEVER show the suicide on TV because it's very impressionable and might be the thing that pushes people to actually do it. In fact, I'd be lying if I said that the revenge suicide didn't sound appealing enough to creep into my brain, but I recognized it for what it was (thoughts implanted by the show) and immediately stopped watching. It's a shame because I loved the book and the book did a much better job at portraying everything than the show in a manner that doesn't actually encourage suicide. I've seen BoJack season 1-5 at least 15 times and season 6 at least 6 times. It's an incredible show that I relate to more than anything else and it's portrayal of mental health was so much more tactful, accurate and tasteful. 13 Reasons has other subjects such as rape and it's incredibly difficult to bear.

Hope you did major in psychology man

I think the poem halfway down is actually a brilliant example of taking a realistic approach to understanding what suicide means ...

Late to the discussion but at my high school, I watched both Bojack and the first season of 13RW at a time when I was beginning to deal with mental health issues and liked the former SO much more bc it actually cared for people who lived with the issues they discuss. Yes, Bojack can be harsh and painful to watch at times, but its overall messages and morals are never pessimistic or fatalistic. It’s always showing how life changes and you can always find help, rather than wallowing in your own self defeat. I appreciated it because it showed of permanent some changes and consequences were even in their earliest seasons, rather than just giving up and telling you over and over that no one will help you. When 13 came out, we had a debate in my English class where I described my experiences with both shows along with how watching Bojack helped reflect on my mental health and coping mechanisms and how I would recommend Bojack and other media for anyone who was struggling with mental health. In my class there were many other people who glorified suicide, depression, and other mental health issues as quirks and repeatedly made jokes and triggered kids living with mental conditions on purpose. Not only did the people who vehemently rejected my views about the media argue about the status of my health bc “what did I have to be upset for” but another girl in my class told me I should watch it again to “get an idea of what I should do with myself”. The people who praise this show know nothing about mental health and don’t even heed the show’s message of “being kinder to everyone” and they knew what it does to people who struggle with these issues, yet they still clung to it to save face. It’s nothing but a click baiting, money grubbing pile of garbage who’s creators don’t even care that they probably killed part of their audience.

Sara Michelle I thought it was like that at first too- I was looking for a stupid stoner show I could smoke and watch to. But as I began to watch I realized how amazing the show really was and how much I really related to it. I loved how gritty and realistic it is- it’s just so moving and amazing- the first show I ever felt a real connection to.

@@Drawing.dragons213 Same here. I was just looking for a stupid show to have in the background while I smoked. I fell in love with it, but the first few episodes are kinda garbage compared to the rest of the series.

I just started watching it. Im left silent at the end of many episodes. Watch it.

It’s officially one of my favorite shows op!!

Alright @saramichelle it's been a year. Have you watched it?

Zombie Sazza exactly!

THIS IS SO FUCKING TRUE. The narrator, (bless him), apologised afterwards but honestly? This sort of raw emotion and addressing it without shame is key in counteracting mental illness - and all the mislead media surrounding it. It made me more invested; brought me back to my main issue with 13RW.. How furious it makes me and others that the show had the audacity to put so many at-risk people in further danger, and avoid what could of been potentially relatable and educating. My only complaint for that unscripted break is that it wasn't broadcasted to the 13RW producers

Sorry when’s the time stamp? I don’t think I saw the scene

8:11

I'd beat the fuck out of the girl who started the trend just so she learns the pain she inflicted to others.

That's fucking sicken, how fucking dare she do that for attention?? Does she understand the pain people have to go through to do that to themselves??? Im in complete awe, that she had the nerve to fucking do that. Im actually fucking disgusted. Im sorry that happened at your school, and if your struggling with anything I hope it didn't make anything bad for you, hope you're okay now.

Well the fact that she “did it for attention” might show other problems that might have been happening in her life. If she did just “do it for fun” then that’s what’s disgusting about it, especially posting it on social media as an aesthetic. I think that shows like TRW definitely doesn’t help the situation, it makes young teens think that can do these things as a revenge plot or to get attention or for people care about them. We can’t just assume that she didn’t do it for a reason that was rational to her. People do kill themselves for attention because they feel like nobody cares about them. There are multiple reasons people kill themselves and we can’t just assume things we don’t know.

@@elizabethgatchell4546 thank you for being the only one in this comment section to have sense

Yikes,,,that’s disgusting in every way!

That was 1x11, of course, the episode that would settle the second to last episode rule in the series.

It makes me so mad because ive related more to an 50 year old anthropomorphic talking horse and a pink talking cat lady than a girl my age in a show that is supposed to be "relatable" for teens.

People like that are very narrow-minded, it's sad

I think it’s meant to represent that absolute absurdity of life, also. Just how the darkness is a metaphor for darkness.

Who sent the letters

Kosta Jovanovic the school system

My psychology teacher told us to watch as an assignment...AND she hadn't even watched it herself.

• •ali• • seems more like they just followed a list rather than preparing a proper lesson.

Salty Sadness I couldn’t remember for sure if we got a letter like that so I asked my mom about it and she said she thinks we got one making parents aware of the show but not specifically saying not to watch it.

Brent Phillips LOL

From my experience I never *wanted* to kill myself. I felt like I *needed* to die.

it is though brent.

It's true, often it is people who are able to criticize themselfes rather than thinking they are the best and blame others, thats something intelligent or sensitive people tend to do. It's always the wrong ones who go

hannah’s depression isn’t even at all like how people experience actual depression. if anything, she had martyr syndrome, where she constantly victimizes herself and uses the pity card so she gets attention. that’s what makes me mad. the show frames depressed people as psychos who will manipulate people’s emotions so that they get sympathy. spreading a message like that causes more harm than good.

So true, I'm honestly so glad that I watched the show because of that episode, it's good to know I'm not the only one who thinks something really disgusting and immediately corrects myself all the time. I have no idea how my thoughts got so dark.

same, and i liked how it not only recognized that voice in ur head, but how counterproductive it is. it was clear that despite it torturing bojack, it seemed to be in favor of bojack avoiding doing things he needs to do.

Despite her shutting you down I feel sorry for her. She must be now torturing herself, thinking it was her fault, which can have a very damaging effects for her. I think she needs someone to talk to her about it

@M A whats wrong with you

@M A are you crazy? You don't know her, the fact that she thinks it's her fault is horrible and she needs help

Wow that sounds awful. This is why that show is a failure

Oh god, that's fucked up. Sorry to hear that! A friend of mine, whom i was growing apart with at the time, died and it was not really clear wether or not it was suicide. Shortly before, he tried to reach me on phone, more than once, but i always missed it and didn't know the number, and i was busy with a lot of things and did not follow it. After he died, and when i found out that it was him calling me from a hospital, i was obviously devastated, and whenever i brought this up, people responded like: " But you know, even if you talked to him, you could have not prevented it. don't blame yourself!" But that, to this day, is not the point. The point is that he was in a bad place, we had not spoken for quiet a time, and he tried to reach me and to talk to me as a friend. Even if I had a way to know for sure, that he would have died even if I talked to him: at least he would have known and felt that I cared. But to imagine that he wanted to talk to me and might have gotten the impression that i did not care for him (for he also asked a mutual friend to tell me about his situation - this friend forgot and that's a whole other story) and that he died not knowing that i did, indeed, care, is a burden I will carry for the rest of my life. And that really sucks.

Have you ever finished it yet

You never expect a show about a talking sitcom horse to be emotionally draining or upsetting. Maybe that's why I can't stop watching

This is something I really struggle with. Bojack is my favorite show and I love it, but I'm a mentally ill college student who recently sustained a life changing injury that's having serious effects on my education, plus I'm taking an existentialism class right now for my philosophy major, and watching the show just puts me into a Camusian state of absurdist suicidality. Awful. Hope you're feeling better and can get back on the horse *badum tss*

So season 2 ep 11?

I get this, it's one of my favourite shows but I can't always watch it

yeah cartoon with humanoid animals is more accurate than realistic tv show with realistic people with real problems

Roronoa Zoro not all things with humans are realistic and give accurate portrayals of mental illness.. i think you have a bias

Roronoa Zoro they are not realistic people lol...

+cat seriously? ? sorry but I think that you are biased one

+Roronoa Zoro sorry but BoJack seems more grounded despite the animal theme

I saw myself through the characters, and most are assholes in certain ways but don't mean to be. I saw BoJack and Diane in my A LOT. The more I watched it the more I knew I had to change. Maybe I was hurting the people around me and I couldn't do it anymore. And I've changed because of it. For example I didn't want to drink in fear that mixed with everything I was going through mentally, I'd become an alcoholic and depend on it to feel good. Now I don't think that's a possibility, and I can occasionally go to the bar (once a month I get drunk) but the other days I can actually feel good and clear. I'm slowly crawling out of that hole, getting out of bed, and doing things. "Every day it gets a little easier, but you have to do it everyday, that's the hard part. But it does get easier"

Jim L.Stone I don’t think that 13 reasons why romanticizes suicide. And people don’t kill themselves because of the show. I think it’s inaccurate and a revenge type of story that I don’t like about it

@@murdock6202 fiction affects reality in a lot more ways than you might realise

Willow Mallabar I don’t think people kill themselves over the show, or because of the show. They just decide to do it the same way, which is still fucked up.

Nova62 I don’t think this show outright caused deaths. If you’re suicide and don’t get help it’s almost inevitable, seeing something about depression and suicide can really trigger that. I don’t like the show, but it’s also up to the parents, and friends to notice the signs of depression, and to monitor what their kids watch, if you have a link to depression or suicide it’ll be hard to watch a show that focuses on it. It may have triggered people, but it’s not the reason. People who were going to kill them selves were going to do it either way

I was listening to a radio show about 13rw, and how it displayed suicide in a "cool" way, and there was a woman on the show who mentioned how she caught her 12yo daughter about to hang herself, and when asked her daughter said that she wanted to be like Hannah...

It is actually surprisingly good don't knock it

Pengwins wait r u deadass

I mean, I only watched it when my friends and I were over and made fun of it all during it BUT the set design was wonderful and the songs weren't very bad. Enjoyable to watch in that setting.

Pengwins okay, I can’t disagree with that. The music ain’t my cup of tea but like I can respect that. If you were gonna try and defend some other shit we woulda had a problem 😂

Damn he fell from grace

Did you get an A on it dude? Because I’m sure it’s amazing

He should've kept it a little more professional instead of getting TOO pissed

But she has the best ending, all her hard work and optimism paid off.

@@graphite2786 but what If that was just a dream in bojacks mind?

@@sumitshresth then it wouldn't actually make any sense regarding what herb said to bojack in "the view from halfway down" "oh bojack, no. there is no other side. this is it."

I love princess Carolyn. Her, todd and mr peanut butter are my favourites

Bojack had one crying scene but as usual they made that scene perfect as well and didnt over dramatize it

I noticed myself deep in my thoughts while driving and just got lost in the moment and started accelerating super fast. I didn't veer off the road or anything, but as soon as it was over I remember BoJack. It's sad to see how relatable it can be, bc I don't want to be a BoJack.

Claire Hall I related to that so much when I first started Bojack Horseman.

Watching that scene made me feel and relate how accurate it is to contemplate on suicide and how much depression can take so much of a toll on you to in a way "let go". I couldn't stop crying after that scene...

The crazy part is that the scene gives you such a happy mood before you realize what is happening and it just shows that silent struggle perfectly.

Alex m L

Honestly Bojack Horseman has been the first show on Netflix I could watch again and again. I resonate with so many characters in the show and I feel like it’s a more realistic take on characters as it shows the good and bad side of each one of them. None of them are without flaw. None of them always make the right choices or say the right things. I can’t wait for season 5

maybe it’s not to relate too.. maybe it’s literally just a tv show. entertainment. that’s all. why must people try and make something out of it that isn’t there.

i would be totally with that, like as a brainless show it is p dramatic hence entertaining. but what bothers me is that the show claims to be something that s relatable and educational and important in starting a conversation or whatever and markets itself heavily in that manner, and ppl view it as this revolutionary show or whatever, which is a little frustrating. :-p

Same. 13rw obviously wasn’t written by someone with depression and anxiety.

It pisses me off too. It's one thing to tell people what you're show is going for and it's one thing saying that it's honest. That's just high ego.

im pissed off too fuck this show

I read the book and the book was way less graphic. Hannah took pills, and while it's still a terrible way to die, it makes the show take the piss even more for making it more graphic and dramatic for TV

In the book she OD'd with pills, they literally just ramped up the scene to glorify it on tv

@@lapillus2344 yup. It’s fucking hilarious when they deny the show being a compleat and total glorification of suicide. Also the whole “he really loved you and can only admit it after you’re dead” trope or whatever is shit. Also WHY TF E THERE 3 MORE SEASONS!!? No one asked for that.

Bless your school district

How did they ban it tho?

Cudos to them

It happened to my school district too. They can't physically ban it they just say to the parents don't let your kids watch this show.

your school district knows how to deal with stuff like that

omfg ikr, i get that tho cause Clay always has that shit look on his face lmao

Clay always looked dazed and confused in the show, and it got to a point where I was wondering if the character was confused or the actor was confused.

@@CutesyEldritchHorror Although that DOES make him more of an authentic teenager - the confusion - so there IS that at least, although otherwise "13 reasons why" sucks.

A CARTOON HORSE AT THAT. The writers of BoJack were just infinitely better and they didn't adapt the book 13 Reasons appropriately at all. It's really sad because I love the book, but the show is horrible.

Isn't that the horse from Horsin' Around?!

@@noonebossesthegarnet2890 don’t act like you don’t know

i swear the things hannah was going through were a serious issue no doubt bojack horseman is a great show but people are not taking high school harassment seriously it's just because they may have not gone through it,they still need to respect it as an issue.

@@vedantikhandke6097 well the point of all of this is to basically say that they didn’t show it very well while bojack presented the problems in a better way also most of us who watched bojack are most likely out of high school and relate to the feelings and emotions he’s going through

Hollywoo hehe

freya beatrice I personally disagree I think he is for the most part happy and they try to show how happy he is but at one point in the show when they’re buying a workplace he’s freely defeated and destroyed and showed that even the most happy people in the world are not immune to deep sadness and hopelessness

Everyone knows that Mr PeanutButter is sad, profoundly sad, and emotionally stunted...

@@dubnation1360 I second this. He's not trying to hide behind a wall, he just deals with issues in a positive way. A key moment is when he gets on the game show with Bojack and they start arguing. Mr Peanutbutter says something along the lines of, 'you think I don't notice when you're mean? I'm just trying to be your friend'. That really slapped me in the face that Mr Peanutbutter is very aware of how he chooses to behave. Its the same with Todd and why they like to be around each other

Yeah Mr Peanutbutter is one of my favorite characters from the show. The first few episodes he just seems unrelatable and unlikeable, but as we spend more time with him we see that he is not as happy go lucky as we thought. He has a constant need to distract himself with new projects, new shows, and new girlfriends in order to keep his mind away from his true feelings of depression and anxiety.

Season 5 makes you look at Me Peanutbutter at a completely different light.

Seriously, though

Ouch

ho ney I like ur profile picture

Yep

Yep...

I first found 13rw It was a good binge watch since I literally couldn't do anything else (I was on vacation with no wifi and only had 13rw installed on my phone) when I found it I was going through what I then thought would be my rock bottom, I couldn't eat or sleep due to my anxiety and depression. Skip to a month later and I was high as fuck and decided to watch bojack horseman. It quickly became my favorite show and I binge watched all 5 seasons while I was high (looking back the fact I was high for 5 days straight is probably an even worse rock bottom) I honestly relate to bojack so much and I love all the character they feel like genuine real people and I love that about the show it feels real not like a setup story

I feel exactly the same

I found thirteen reasons why unsettling, very uncomfortable, especially when it got to the thirteenth tape and season 2 highlights a much different topic which is also poor portrayal of. I felt like shit watching this show, couldn't even sleep because of how harrowing it was to me.

Marilyn Alice i’ve had D&D for years. find anything g helpful getting rid of it ?

I felt that weird sad relief too. Its like everything is fine despite everything. I become comfortable in my own existence knowing that I'm not the only one feeling things like this.

Yes! That, and the episode from his moms perspective were such interesting ways to explore mental conditions and perspectives.

Yes, that episode got me into therapy.

uhh i’m kinda worried because i relate to literally everything these depressed people are saying and i’ve always thought i’m mentally sound (besides autism)

Same. It’s always been relatable, and a validating escape for me - but that episode was so real.

Laneybug right? me too.

I watched it, just to have my own opinion about it. Only knowing that people (still) love the show. And I just want to say, as someone with a lot of anxiety, maybe more than depression, the show... I don't know what's the purpose of it, but it fails in portraying mental issues, health and... In general, everything. It's a girl who feels lonely, like so many people in the world, and while I don't blame her, she refused to accept help and ended blaming innocent people that either did try to help her or were bad with her, but that last one just make the tapes that she left like a way of getting revenge. And that's... I don't even know. Is too much about one girl and her perspective and inner thoughts or mind. So we see almost everything in a different way and are supposed to root for her. But in Bojack, while he is the main character, the show really emphasize the fact that he is a toxic person. That we can understand him, but we shouldn't justify it. We can see other peoples perspectives and problems, too. And it's realistic and heartbreaking for the same fact. It doesn't matter if you're depressed or not. It resonates with people, cause there's a lot of common themes that can relate to people. And I mean all kinds of people. By far, I've watched all seasons and it's a really good show. I haven't started the second season of 13RW, and I don't think I want to. But we'll see. (Sorry if my English isn't the best. I may have written something wrong.) ♣

Zara i’m really happy you’ve found relief in this show, and i’m really sorry that your teachers and parents don’t have a clue i hope your getting the help you need, now :D

papersword Are you in the habit of leaving comments shitting on people sharing their experiences finding relief in media? Or is this just a once off? Or maybe you just get a kick out of picking on teenage girls. I think you might be the one who needs more help here. I truly hope you find it.

dottybing sarcasm is hard to read over the internet but i hope you typed in that tone

Sheepy Sleep lmao it was if i offended anyone, i’d gladly take down that comment. though really, why are people being mean to this person? they were expressing how this show helped them.

dottybing nah 's chill it just sounded legit and i got spooked & yeah, it's a real dick move of some people

Cosmos Factor God that scene hit me deep, I had to pause the video because I just wasn't prepared for a show to actually portray that same feeling I have so often. The fact that it went from something simple to bringing up stuff from the past is shockingly accurate. When dealing with depression it's hard to forgive yourself, and because of that you bring up things that are already over yet you use them to turn against yourself. Depression is like a mirror image of you, picking at every little damn thing you do in your life. Trying to find literally anything to use as an excuse to push you down. It's like an inner battle that's hard to win because you can't run away from yourself. It's horrible, but I'm relieved that the show conveyed it in an understanding way. Also I'm sorry for my rambling.

Cosmos Factor you should watch

It's a good show that breaks the tension with alot of jokes. It just also makes ya realize how fucked up the characters are cuz of their past, issues and vices. It will hit ya out of no where but also make ya feel like there's still hope but ya gotta put work in. That's the main theme no matter how fucked up ya are, there's always hope for change and happiness but ya gotta put work into it.

you should watch it!

it really is a great show, definitely my favorite animated series. while remaining a funny, dynamic, and ridiculous show, it really does portray various mental illnesses in an accurate manner. it's the perfect juxtaposition of dark realism and quirky cartoon storytelling. imo, its perfect.

Her committing suicide made me furious. I couldn’t explain why it made me so absolutely angry

@@A11L9E To me it was the fact that she didn't turn off the water faucet (potentially causing great water damage) and the fact that she did it in a place where her parents would see her (I couldn't do that to my parents). To summarize: She didn't care if she traumatized her parents and she didn't care if she caused expensive damages while doing it.

HrhMk I kid you not, I was driving to get food today and I was zoned out thinking about how I’m out of high school now, almost an adult, and I’m still depressed (I have Cyclothymia which is basically a more mild BPD. Hardly anyone knows what it is. It’s less common than BPD but still absolutely awful) and how whenever we’re in middle school and depressed we’re sitting here thinking hey at least when I’m an adult it’ll get better. But like. What adults are fine? Most of my friends are depressed or have some form of anxiety. One of my best friends has BPD. We’re all still fucked up and on meds hoping it’ll be fixed. But it feels like it may never. It was just a horrible and surreal realization in my car on the way to get stupid McDonalds.

Yes it does but mostly teens that's why the show is based on teens....depression is not like acne .....that's why 13 reasons why has high ratings coz it's kinda the first time that suicide and depression has been introduced into media as a real thing and in reality

No it doesn’t, it doesn’t mention anything about any type of person not being able to struggle with mental illness, it just touches on this specific case, it can’t talk about every type of person that has ever been mentally ill, also it’s important to touch on the fact that it does happen in schools, since teenagers and teenage girls especially are young, naive, vulnerable and can be torn apart by life just as much as anyone, in the UK now, over a quarter of teenage girls are self harming

@@abbiew9012 sorry if im wrong but please watch the masterpiece Dead Poets Society because that shows suicide in a realistic manner and the way it affects the world is also very realistic.

Not to mention that suicide is more prominent in guys than in girls,

Do you mean PTSD from sexual assault? Because sexual assault is a crime, not a mental illness.

What rant? You pleaded your experiences and got your point across. There's nothing to apologize for.

The show would work exactly the same if all characters were regular humans it would just be a little less humorous

Bro what season 2 did you watch? The one I watched said nowhere that Hannahs suicide was revenge, it actually said the opposite. And she didn't come back as a ghost, that was Clay hallucinating due to his mental illness. Maybe try watching it again with your eyes open

I rather prefer the book.

Jerky .Murky let’s not forget someone actually got sodomized in the bathroom

The problem with the second season is that they have nowhere to go. Hannah is dead, so the show is no longer even about her as we've finished the tapes, and it's not really even about Clay, who, as Pengwins stated, doesn't have a personality. Clay is literally just an audience insert, to the point where he isn't even a character and doesn't have any narrative significance in the second season. When the main characters of a show are pointless and powerless within their own stories, that's bad writing. And the original storyline is done, we've finished listening to the tapes. So they invent a court case and drag the plot out, getting so caught up in flashy narrative arcs that the entire focus of the first season--the tapes--are completely irrelevant. And it's left ambiguous as to whether Hannah is really there or a hallucination--something awfully ironic for a show reputedly about mental illness. I've read the book, which is leaps and bounds better. It's better because its contained--once the tapes are done, the book is done. Well, there's a little bit of action after, but it's mostly over. There's a central conflict, its explored, fin. And that holds the reader's gaze to Hannah and the larger problems she represents. It gets its message through far clearer and cleaner than the show does and *without* triggering victims of mental illness or sensationalizing suicide.

Her suicide in my opinion was portrayed as revenge. She planned out a series of different tapes for many people to listen to while also making sure a certain person would make sure that these tapes would be delivered to all these people. She made sure that they would be courced to listen to them or else their reputation would be a stake. She didn't even write a letter to her parents about why she decided to kill herself. All she was thinking about was how she was going to prove to all those people who did her wrong on how much they hurt her by killing herself. Her killing herself was portrayed in a positive light by presenting her suicide as a way of striking down all those who have hurt her by hurting herself permanently. When someone is suicidal they aren't thinking about how to get back at people who have hurt them. They aren't planning out a course of action that will take place after they have died. They aren't saying, "I killed myself because you did this and I will prove it with my death and you will finally feel sorry for what you did to me." But that's what she did. The entire show is about how she forced other people to listen to the 13 reasons why they were responsible for her death. When in reality they were NOT in no way possible responsible for her actions. Even though the show will try to continuously convince you that if somone you know and love dies you are at fault, which is NOT true. And in fact her actions on getting back at those people through her death with her plan to make them listen to the tapes had caused two of the boys to almost kill themselves. When someone has hit their lowest point where they can no longer want to go on living. They have no energy to do anything anymore. Whether it's getting out of bed, brushing their teeth, or just taking a shower every few days. They can't find the energy or strength to perform these day to day tasks anymore. They feel nothing and yet everything. They are fusterated and angry with all this emptiness locked inside them weighing them down. Even killing themselves can be a chore of it self. That's why her suicide to me at least was shown as a way to get back at certain people. Because she wasn't exhausted. She was motivated and determined enough to plan this all out even to the very order of people who would be recieving her tapes from start to finish full of the pre written stories that she had readily prepared for each and every one of them. She had been planning it out for a while with the intent to harm them emotionally, mentally, and verbally. If she had been really suicidal she wouldn't have had the time nor energy to do this. She would only have time to write a quick, messy, last minute written letter to both of her parents before deciding to want to die. If it wasn't about revenge she wouldn't have planned a plan to get back at them. If she was really suicidal she wouldn't have been thinking about anything because it would have been too tiring. But then again this is just my opinion. I speak with experience for myself and a friend. We have both suffered with deppression, anxiety, and suicidal thoughts where we are currently recieving help for. We both felt that Hannah did not feel what a suicidal person is suppose to feel during her suicidal moments; in fact we could not relate to her emotions during her suicidal thoughts at all because we felt nothing during those times except anger and exhaustion. We did not want to exist, and we didn't want to involve other people with our issues in our lives becuase we did not want to bother them or be a burden to them. Unlike Hannah who planned her death to involve all the people who she thought were responsible for her death when in actuality she was the only responsible for her death and it was wrong, abusive, and extremely harmful to force those kids to listen to those tapes. Two boys almost killing themselves over this is proof of that. There are so many more issues with this series but that's just a little bit just to name a few. And like I said again this is just my personal opinion on the matter.

Sam Mosteller people are free to make whatever shows they want. If you don't like it, don't watch it but you have no right to shut it down! I prefer BoJack but I'll watch 13 Reasons Why just to spite some people

Little Red Ⱳìtch Ɲỿṛ ì I don't care. The people in the show aren't actually commiting aggression, theft or fraud against you, are they? If not, and if you truly believe in freedom, it only makes sense to leave them alone and not watch the show. People can claim that ANYTHING someone does is, "psychologically harmful" to them, like me being Goth, but I don't give a fuck what they want as long as I'm not actually harming them

Roy Criddle LMAO in what way is this comment even so much as an ATTEMPT to shut the show down the show. This random commenter has literally no bearing on if the show will continue. Get a fucking grip. If you can't handle critical discussion DON'T CLICK ON ANALYSIS VIDEOS.

I understand both sides of the argument here. I’m fairly sure the show can be harmful but I also firmly believe in free media. To me, if you have bad mental health issues don’t watch it. I hate the show but I also can’t get behind the idea something should be shutdown.

AvgJane19 I don’t think the argument was they were attempting to, rather if they should. Either way they wouldn’t have done anything most likely but in the case they did or just had power over the situation what would you choose.

Just like the ending theme: _“I was just trying to make you understand”_

You've got it down, exactly right. I haven't watched BoJack in its entirety, but from the clips, this is the feel it gives.

I used to like 13 reasons why but you're right it just talks down mental illness without having a clear moral message

@Abigail Slaughter Damn, did you really lose your job over being gay?

The problem with 13 reasons why is that it misunderstands the source material and, rather than use the premise a way of looking into mental illness and its effects, it went for teen drama. Bojack is much more down to earth and realistic. I didn't think much of bojack horseman until I came across a clip from "stupid piece of shit" that made me realise that his internal monologue wasn't far off from my own. It showed me a problem I didn't even know that I had.

So that’s the extent of the series’s damage...Makes me wonder how the creators haven’t been sued already....

Eugenia OL I don't know if they can be sued for triggering unhealthy thoughts. In the most cases, these thoughts are already there, scratching on the brick wall in the back of your mind. It is hard to tell if this disgusting piece of "art" is to blame for the wall to break. You just have no proof, sadly.

That sounds like our education system.

@@infiniter4in178 You can be sued for *PROMOTING* suicide though, which is what they're doing. They've glorified suicide as some great thing that gets you the attention you always wanted. The fact that people have linked their attempts directly to this series, because of the reason I stated, seems to be a pretty obvious correlation if nothing else.

disgusting

he wears a business suit in season 5 (but is wearing his normal clothes underneath lol)

Black Rose nah i disagree, id say its a great thing. It shows that animation as medium can handle and tackle more than just cookie cutter topics for kids and families and can dive into way more controversial and even more thought provoking plot lines and characters

@@theradionicrevival8068 👌👌👌 gosh highly agreed

Honestly

@@paris283 honestly what? it's been 4 months and im still waiting for an answer

@@mayabartolabac que

Very true. If you wanna watch a show about mental illness watch Bojack.

I saw it and it’s really good especially the animation

I don't have a mental illness but damn 13rw is E D G Y. Everyone was hyped about in 6th grade (im in 8th now)

AJETT Yeah I remember when it first came out (what feels like forever ago now) before I dropped out of school and went off social media, all the bully’s and the mean kids in my school that led me to have a complete mental breakdown were posting about it on snapchat saying it was their favourite show, and that put me completely off

Well I've been bullied in middle school and been in an abusive relationship in my early 20s, and I watched it. While 13 reasons had some ludicrous aspects, I interpreted the whole thing as it being the vision of a girl who saw persecution everywhere when it wasn't, and didn't see that there were some people who cared about her and would end up living with the consequences of her action. To me, the real tragedy and her real mental illness was the way her mind twisted reality to make it so much worse than it really was, and that made everything revolve around her. That was my take on it, but I do agree that it's been executed rather poorly.

I've had some bumpy times for the past seven years, and I watched 13RW recently at the behest of my sister. It seems to exacerbate the weight of **something** I have because so far it's just people grieving, but I can't say it makes me angry to watch. I haven't watched BoJack because I thought it was basically an animal version of Family Guy or American Dad(I prefer Futurama), but I think I'll check it out.

Gay

same

Im similar to BoJack because I take the blame for everything, I self destruct sometimes and lose my shit like him. With 13rw it was basically "Killing yourself is the only way out" fuck 13rw shits trash.

@@86onionz Exactly. But sadly it seems like people think that those with depression always want to commit suicide. Bojack is shown as caring but selfish, he tries to redeem himself but ends up ruining the little kind of happiness he achieved because he will never feel satisfied. That's exactly how I felt for my entire life. Depression is not just about suicide. While Bojack Horseman is an incredibly accurate depiction of depression and how it influences your surrounding and how hard it is to get out of it. 13RW feels like depression is treated like a cliché and it's just used to make a show edgier.

Cole Cro I agree that it's good to watch due to its relatability, but I'd not recommend binging. I'm a hardcore binger with pretty severe depression, and I watched it all in a few days. By the end of it, I had a full blown just... Breakdown. It was too much for me to take that quickly due to how real I could see myself in the portrayal of depression, and I know a few people who feel the same. It's one of my favourite shows but binging it is kind of not the best idea for some people, yaknow?

Jj Doods yeah i do see what you mean. i actually felt similar but it didn’t weigh on me as much as it had on you. so i guess it depends on the person. i finished it all in probably 4 days i think and i felt the show is over feeling like other shows. but this show really left me with an image of myself that i just understood so well that it really changed the way i looked at myself. kinda made me realize that i’m not a shitty person because of depression, i can choose to be a shitty person or not. it really kinda made me feel better and i actually stopped doing things ( that should probably not be said ) because i just felt like i wasn’t as alone. idk though. i’m not an expert on this lmao

I haven’t watched it, but just watching the clips in this video really brought me back years ago, it was so triggering because it was so real. The car scene where he lets go of the wheel and when grabbing it, it spins out of control, it felt like an aspect of my life that for a while I thought was completely alien. Seeing it just now in this clip was so painful and good at the same time.

Amy Pattie yes i know exactly that feeling. seriously this has to be one of the best shows i’ve seen. i can not recommend enough. you should watch it

Me too. Bojack portrays depression and mental illness in a much better way than 13 Reasons Why

tay the emø child exactly, 13RW is complete recycled garbage.

Of course you would say that

Bojack is Character first, mental illness later. Which makes the characters far more relatable for everyone.

The mental illness is part of the character instead of the character being defined by the mental illness

Sausage Mahoney I understand this became a rant about how badly written her character was when in the first place it was about representation of mental illness in characters so let me back track to that. BoJack feels like depression is a part of him like it truly is but he does have his own character outside of being depressed whereas Hannah feels like her depression was added for plot’s sake and because of a message then without it she’s not that altogether interesting

Sorry, but would you mind detailing your traumatic experience? I'm curious. It's completely fine if you'd rather not.

Sandvich Man It’s cool. :) I’m going to give you a background though ; Actually I’ve always had Depression (clinical) and I’ve always been kind of instable in a way. My mom is schizophrenic and my dad is kind of a asshole. I’m young, fifteen years old, and when I’ve watched 13RW I was fourteen and going through an almost psychotic episode. I was thinking about suicide a lot, always have but this time was pretty severe. I’m going to spare my mom’s abusive personality and such, I was in a dark place. Before I’ve watched the show, I was thinking that it would help me, people said it was inspiring, smart, helping people with mental health issues. So I watched it. You know the rest of the story, I was really shaken. All I know is that the show could’ve put a warning, but I might be wrong, I don’t remember everything obviously, been trying to erase the whole thing. All I’m saying is that those writers are jerks that know nothing about mental health at all. Sorry for the rant lol

Bojack isnt my cup of tea. The show just reminds me if my thoughts and makes me feel sort of numb and sad, because I usually try to distract myself from it. Whenever bojack is thinking and calling himself an idiot or stupid or a jackass, it kinda makes me sad and that voice in my head starts doing the same thing to me. Its fine that you can enjoy it tho :) But with 13 reasons why, oh boy. I hated that show. It reminded me of suicidal tendencies and made me think that people would be happy without me. Idk how to explain how it happened but I had suicidal thoughts for so long after watching it. Hannah slitting her wrists oh boy, it triggered me. Not in the angering way, it was triggering and I got flashbacks and I started to cry. It was such a bad show

sal ty For bojack I totally get it, It cannot be for everyone and I’m sorry it does that to you. I totally agree for 13RW though, ptsd at it’s finest lol

Zoa Doesn’t thirteen reasons why give you a warning in the beginning of each episode? I’m just genuinely curious because some of the scene are extremely traumatic .

@madison - Exactly! Never once in the show has he cried ( in his adult life ) apart from the time he was asked to act out a scene in which he knows he is broken, then his brother dying and it was all his fault. And he couldn’t bring himself to cry. Once he got outside however, he got out a cigarette and started smoking and then broke out into silent tears. That scene really got me. It’s that you want to cry but no matter how hard you try you just can’t do it in front of people. Bojack Horseman is a masterpiece.

Jordie Ann I describe depression less of being sad and more of not being happy. You can have all the other emotions and short bursts of joy but never happy it makes me feel non human.

Tyburok I agree

Lil Broomstick Making a show about it though, will give someone who has personal vendettas against people and is heading towards deep depression the wrong idea, I bet you that.

Lil Broomstick and the sad part is that the show is trying to represent all suicide, or suicide in general. I think they should explore the different reasons, shouldn’t they? Not just that one, cause that places a bad image on a majority who don’t do that.

You don't know if other would do that for the same reason or not. Dude people can do that even before the show. Me as a suicidal victim... I am not offended but actually ok with 13rw.. Hannah killed herself cause of the same reasons I have.

Tyburok I was forced into reading the book. I hated it. It was uncomfortable, awful and terrible

True, and I hate it :(

Sofie Petersen 13 reasons why: Mental illness? Hey! we could use that as an excuse to make a dramatic show! Nevermind researching mental illness and trying to be realistic! The book was popular so let's make a show!

Sofie Petersen whah the creators said they “talked to real psychologists” before making it, they meant to say they did exactly what the psychologists told them NOT to do in the show. Further proves how god awful it was at portraying mental illness. Seriously who tf thinks showing suicide so vividly and...god she literally explained how to do it. Who the fuck thought it would be a good idea to do that?!

That bath scene... made me feel like I was being pulled back into depression. Ugh. Can't imagine how that'd be for someone actually depressed

I was getting better by the time 13rw came out, then I watched it and the thoughts of suicide came back really hard (and they give me an idea to how send my suicide letters an how to kill myself!)

I attribute that to having a friend with the last name Nguyen through highschool tbh

bravo, you said it perfectly.

carmen a. gonzalez rios haha, thanks. I’m surprised someone actually read this essay of a comment.

“We pity him but he’s not a victim” THANK YOU my ex bf thought bojack was the victim when all he did was not get help for his drug abuse and manipulate and be toxic toward the people that cared for him(except in the last season when he actually started trying to get help)

Experts in the field warn against showing suicide scenes like they did with Hannah. That should be something you have a big problem with, because that's implanting the idea in others peoples heads and there were people who killed themselves and recorded tapes. Not all of them slit their wrists, but the end result was the same. 13 Reasons portrays suicide as an act of revenge in the show (the book, IMO, is leagues different in tone and reason and explains itself a lot more clearly). BoJack may have been close to suicide several times, but it's never explicitly shown or said. The car veering off the road slowly and the View from Halfway Down where he was seen upside down, motionless, in the pool are the closest things we have to suicide in that show, but neither are explicitly portrayed and in the car scene, BoJack even slams on the breaks, essentially stating that it's never too late. 13 Reasons was just a toxic mess. BoJacks never triggered me, but god damn all it took was that suicide scene in 13 Reasons and I had to quit watching because it gave me really twisted ideas.

@@cwcpants140 not to be that guy but they do show secretariat die by suicide and then describe it again in the view from halfway down but I think the latter portrayal is kind of important because it talks about his immediate regret and how beautiful life can be when you take the time to look

boredhuman69 Definitely check out Bojack, especially since it’s on Netflix. It’s my favourite animated show. Just don’t expect too much from the first few episodes, they’re pretty average. The show gets good around episode 5 (and especially episode 8). In my opinion, it only gets better, season 4 is my favourite one so far.

It's the best show currentlyl. Has the potential to become the best show I've ever watched. Storytelling is the biggest passion of mine. This is so far, top of what I've seen. Breaking Bad as a complete story is still nr 1 for me. But this has the potential to take the nr 1 spot. More fleshed out side characters. And balances drama and comedy superbly. Being pretty much the best currently on tv in both areas, which is an amazing feat.

The thing is, people in that state of mind don't always reach out for help. They sometimes feel as if they can't or that it won't do anything if they do. I've known people who felt that they couldn't or that it wouldn't do anything. Sometimes, it takes someone else reaching out to them first in order to help.

Viktor Berzinsky I guess what I was trying to say was Hannah never reached out and when she did she expected everyone to be a mind reader

IMO Bojack is the best Netflix original

I’m halfway through season 4. Could I watch this video without spoiling the rest of the show or should I wait?

Sorry for late response, I believe this video was made between seasons 4 and 5. I am not sure where certain clips came from in the show's history but I'd say finish 4 to be safe

College*

Same! I remember reading this book and hating it, and now I have to deal with the tv show

Brick wall huh *all in you're just* *another brick in the wall*

My friend made me watch this show, and I really want to know a way to erase it from my memories. I'm not suicidal either, but I tried hard to keep up with this show. I couldn't really find anything appealing to it, so I dropped it.

The reason it gets so boring is because you couldn't relate. I could relate and I was hooked. And wanna know something shocking? It made me want to kill myself LESS!

Factss

Exactly... And the characters are just annoying

Because 14-17 year olds need a drama that they think makes them 'deep', or even 'depressed/suicidal' when it comes to justify their actions.