BOMBSHELL testimony changes the whole SawStop narrative! 

It is worth noting that liability for an injury with a table saw without sawstop already exist in that sawstop is reliable and proven at this point. The regulation would add weight, but I personally could see the radial arm saw disappearance happening without the regulation just due to the way guards are so easily forgotten about..

I hope this gets some visibility, given some of the inaccuracies. SawStop Technology is expensive partially because they have been the sole manufacturer to date -- both intentionally and because of manufacturer's refusals to adopt -- and they do not hold a majority share of the market. Your pricing speculation that there would be no new saws for "less than $700-800 bucks" seems to ignore that the CPSC already estimated the potential costs using current market costs for AIM technologies and not factoring any additional economy of scale because the patents are still in effect. Even doing so, their estimates were that the cost for the cheapest saws would be "more than double" at $400 or more, again, based primarily on the costs of development or licensing patented technologies. Another reason for the more expensive cost of these AIM systems is that they are designed to prevent damage to the device overall, not just injury. You state cheaper saws aren't robust enough, but stopping the blade doesn't necessarily require them to be robust (ignore that the Reaxx system avoids this completely). Cheaper saws do not have a need to survive the failure or have replaceable parts since the survivability of the saw isn't necessary at that price point. Anyone who complains that they have to buy another $300-400 saw because they DIDN'T need to spend $10k on hospital bills after losing a finger/hand might need to re-evaluate their priorities. As for Manufacturer's claims about extraordinary costs, they use the same tired ruse every time they want to protect profits in the face of regulations. The cost of Bosch's development was significant not because it was a difficult engineering problem, but because they were specifically trying to avoid SawStop's numerous patents in an effort to maintain profits. There is no reason for an excessive "development" cost if the final patent is committed to public domain as they would literally have the plans to build them, and those costs were calculated prior to SawStops commitment to public domain the final patent. Seat belts, air bags, CFCs, and asbestos are also examples where these same types of cost claims were made. In fact, I'd welcome examples where Manufacturers didn't make claims about extraordinary costs whenever a new safety regulation was proposed. The proposal is for compliance after 36 months, not an overnight change that would require manufacturer's to pull saws from the shelves for fear of liability like you claim, nor would this change their liability. The radial arm saw example is thin at best. Emerson (Craftsman) didn't recall these saws simply because they were sued, nor would any company. The only reason to do so would be because their lawyers told them it would easily be shown that no attempt was made at safety and they would lose in court because of it. They electively chose a recall/refund to save money, AS AN ALTERNATIVE to providing a blade guard kit (which they also offered for purchase at a discount). Claiming there is a significant liability difference would be like claiming you have massive liability because your car doesn't have a backup camera now that it is a regulated for safety. As well, your claim that this would make it "illegal to sell saws without this technology" is not only devoid of fact, it is outright false. The proposal specifically states that it applies to saws MANUFACTURED after the date of effect, not sold or re-sold. With a number of hundred-billion to trillion dollar companies making even the slightest effort, a more affordable AIM is not just a possibility, but a likelihood in my opinion.

The government needs to stay out of our business..

@@FJB2020 bullshit. They are protecting the unknowledgeable from predatory people who don’t care if they are maiming and killing them. The companies could have bought the technology before Sawstop existed, but they had “acceptable losses.”

@9.30 min Yes, they can put a breaking system in a low-end saw, however, the saw might be destroyed. In that case they can sell a 'single use save'. So the saw stops the blade, but it might sustain catastrophic damage doing so. I can see people buying that, because you want your fingers to be saved once. It's not that you need the mechanism twice a week. (At least I hope not 🤣) For most woodworkers it will be a once-in-a-lifetime event that they need the 'stop'. So for a weekend woodwarrior like myself a saw that saves my fingers once is good enough. In the unlikely event that I needed the 'stop' I'll buy a new one, knowing that statistically i should be done cutting my fingers for the rest time. On top of that, by far and large the most injuries are sustained by PROFESSIONALS. So the risk for the amateur is already lower because of less time spend at the table and because they are less complacent. I think a single-save-SawStop would be a great idea.

Sawstop is like a seatbelt in a car, you need to operate the equipment safely and can’t just rely on a safety feature to protect you.

Yeah the video of that guy grabbing the table saw blade without even thinking about it proves how complacent people will get.

That’s a pretty smart policy.

@@bobbygetsbanned6049 They never think electronics can fail.

Oh that nice ! However I am a full grown man , an experienced carpenter, and if I want a Saw Stop I can buy one ! If I do not want one the who in the hell is anyone else to tell me what to spend my money on ? I just hear a pile of lame excuses ! So I don’t cut my fingers off on the table saw ? Great ? How about my framing saw ? Miters saw? Saws- All ? And on and on! Buzz off and mind your own business democrats!

I mean, you can sue anyone for anything but I'm not sure how viable such a lawsuit would be. Just look at used cars. Newer ones have more safety technology but you don't really hear of a recall or lawsuit because some old car didn't have this auto braking or side air bags etc.

A weirdly core memory for me about shop safety was one of the members of the Extreme Makeover Home Edition cast injuring himself after removing the guard from a saw

Honestly, drives me nuts when folks don't do proper safety. I avoided a potentially fatal shop mishap as a teen by standing a step to the left of where some very fast metal decided to go when something failed in an unexpected way. Folks will be maimed or killed copying some twit in a show that isn't following best practice.

To be clear, his offer explicitly states, it only stands IF the rule is passed. That is not the same thing as open sourcing his technology. It is not altruistic at all. If the rule is passed, any company that wants to sell a saw will have to decide to invest the R&D into the technology OR licencing it from him. Most will no doubt license. R&D is expensive and full of liability. Especially if Bosch's was faulty. This prevents the customer blowback against his company from the rule and still makes him insanely rich. I'm surprised nubs can see everything so clearly and miss this huge fact.

Congratulations, you paid too much for a saw.

The current CEO is not the inventor. The inventor, Steve Gass, after being turned down by major manufacturers, filed a lawsuit against every powertool company you've ever heard of for conspiracy. It was thrown out, so he went on to start his own line. In his free time, he served as a professional witness to tablesaw injury lawsuits, repeatedly testifying that his technology could be integrated into (then) modern job site saws without substantially increasing product weight or price. Steve Gass is a shitty person. Good on his CEO for making the patent public if regulations pass.

​@@BlankJonahMhow does that make him a shitty person, he's not wrong.

One way or another, he'll make a ton of money if this passes. I guarantee it. That's why he made it conditional.

Your reason is perfectly acceptable. However, they don’t care about your hand. They care about selling more expensive equipment. Just get the price down and I’m sure most people won’t have an issue with it.

Once again, the user is at fault. Tired, end of day, repetitive cut. Should not have been cutting if tired. Should have been using a feather board, not your finger. Completely preventable if using proper procedure.

@@sandmandave2008yes a feather board would have prevented it for sure. I bought a set of Jessem clear cut stock guides and try to use them as much as possible. But, I’m willing to admit that as a human, I am capable of making a mistake and am thankful for the SawStop technology. Engineered safety beats behavioural controls every time.

If they could go back in time, they would probably just not put their hand in the blade again and save money on the sawstop saw. 😂 Sorry I'm leaving😂

​@@saiiiiiii1ret rd

Closely followed by: I’ve done this a million times; I could do it in my sleep… or without paying attention to safety procedures.

YET!!!

number 3: "it was just a single beer"

1. Complacency 2. Being tired 3. Inexperience 4. Freak accident

Number 4: "But I've always used my table saw while naked."

How many fingers do you really need anyway?

It's much easier to re/install that guard with all your fingers.

Usability is an important point. My guard is a pain in the neck to install and gets in the way for many of my projects. On the other hand I am not a business and a few minutes invested in safety doesn’t impact my projects.

damn you took the knife off too? living dangerously haha. ill leave the guard off still, but the knife is pretty useful.

Cool story

Yeah that's about where I'm at, never even come close to an accident BUT as soon as I can get one of these from my preferred brand I'm lined up to buy one. Or I just buy that track saw I have my eye on and throw out the table saw...

Well said!

I have a Sawstop and still respect it..I have had a kick back and learned to stay clear of the wood and also always assume that the brake may not work..I am sure it will but don't get careless with a table saw

@@sailingericYea until the owner of sawstop willingly puts his hand into the blade I'd never trust it

Exactly

@@gg-gn3re He did. You can find it on RU-vid

100%. I only use it when I absolutely have to. Table saws and routers both get a lot of respect from me.

What about Chuck Norris manliness?

More like 4000 to 6000rpm

I’d give you the finger for that comment buddy boy but, erm, it’s missing…

@TopGBottomLobster darwin needs to weed out the weak dna as there is clearly too much of it around

You could make a scarecrow out of that straw man. You must be proud; sweetie.

The guard at one time was NEW technology, but you swear by it.

​@@tianyi05 Sure? but the guard is a physical block that can't fail. It is not at all comparable to an electronic sensor system that can and will fail. The fact both can be technically called technology doesn't make them equal.

@@xe-wf5iv It is like removing bumpers/crumple zones because your car has airbags.

@@King-Kazma it's like choosing not to buy a car with blind spot assistance. There's all sorts of analogies we could make whatever point we want.

@@bobbycrosby9765 Not really. ESC is an active safety device. Once it detects that conditions are met, it intervenes, and cannot be overridden. If it detects that the car is sideways, and still moving fast, and the steering is trying to correct, it will fire individual brakes to bring the car into line. Worst case, it will use brakes and throttle try to slow/stop the car dynamically and/or prevent rollover. Blind spot detection is a passive warning, and can be overridden. Saw guards and most workplace safety equipment (earmuffs etc) are also passive. Saw stop is definitely an active safety intervention.

In that case it is the flesh having saw sensing technology.

ahahahah ;-)

Roy might have something different to say if he cut himself with a sharp Japanese saw. I saw one person cut almost completely through a thumb with one errand pull stroke when the saw jumped out of the kerf.

Indeed. I did a number on my thumb with a flush-cutting Japanese saw. A razor blade with teeth. @@gregorymacneil2836

@@curtisbmeRight. I have a pretty good scar on my (non-dominant) thumb that I gave myself with a hand crosscut saw. But I still have a thumb, due to the saw-sensing technology.

This. I knew a guy who cut his thumb off while cutting framing pine with a circular saw. He's been a wood worker for many decades and it just took a few seconds of inattention while doing something he'd done a million times and it changed his life.

The reason that most (slightly more than 50%) car accidents happen "close to home" is because the vast majority of car trips are "close to home". "Close to home" is used in the transportation industry to mean within 25 miles of your residence. The average driver drives 29 miles per day. Do the math and look at the data and you'll find that over 85% of hours spent driving are within a 25 mile radius of one's home while only about 53% of accidents occur there. Looking at the statistics in context shows that when it comes to driving, familiarity with the roads lessens the chances of an accident. Hope this helps people think about how misuse of statistics can lead to wrong conclusions and suppositions, whether done so nefariously to push a narrative or, in this case, unwittingly and with good intentions.

@@stupidas9466 I stand corrected - thanks for pointing that out :)

Experience is a good thing. I’m a safer driver now at 70 than I was at 35. I use all the safety features in my tools. But I’m most at risk when other people are around and I’m tired. Fatigue and distractions are dangerous in the extreme. Take breaks. Shoo people away and stay focused.

That's why the airlines are so comfortable with 1500-hour pilots. That's the equivalent experience of a young person driving 400 miles in a car. Those old grey-haired dudes are just too darn careless. The difference is the pilot has the necessary training and skill sets to do the job safely. Plus, and most importantly, a strong sense of responsibility. If he screws up, he goes down with the ship. As for driving, I traveled well over two million miles without a major accident. I know I'm not as skillful as I used to be, but I know I'm a lot more careful now. I've used all sorts of power tools and so far, have managed to keep all of my body parts. Some are a little bent and scratched but still there. Yes, complacency enters the picture but it's experience that keeps you safe. Once you cut off a finger it's experience that keeps you from doing it again. Some people learn by watching, others by doing. No matter how hard the politicians try, they can't outlaw carelessness and stupidity.

as to the point about the blade guards, is it possible to legally require their usage? kind of like seatbelts in cars ...

@@carmatic the problem would be policing it. you already have people all over the world not following health and safety rules on jobsites, this will just be another area where they don't comply and get away with it (until an accident happens, then its a game of who can can the higher up's blame it on), there would be no way to police it in the home workshop where I suspect a lot of these incidents happen, the only real way to do it is some sort of 'dob in a buddy' system, which ultimately wont work.

As a karate expert, I am currently undecided about this subject.

Why aren't people suing car manufacturers because their 2010 doesn't have blind spot/auto emergency breaking, full side curtain air bags, etc.

lol the government trying to take control of our hobbies now, it’s against the law to harm your self if you do you will suffer punishment!

I am still astounded thinking back on my youth and that I refused to wear safety glasses and earplugs because it wasn't manly. So stupid.

Underrated comment right here. Kudos for taking the initiative after watching the video and having the humility to make a change!

If the black market can sell gas cans, it can sell table saws. Que the shop teacher from that movie "UHF".

Your future 10 digit self thanks you for finally getting on board with common sense safety measures!

Proper use of dangerous equipment or anything are and should be common sense, period!

No, government regulations making things inaccessible is NOT a conversation we need to have. I'm an adult and if I choose to do something dangerous I've chosen to accept the risks. I don't need big daddy government telling me I can't go outside because it's too cold (so to speak).

"No thanks mister. I need to save up for the Kevlar underwear to legally use my garden shovel."

You got anything thatll spin a 15 inch blade without a guard??? Asking for a friend...

😂

You'll need a license to buy a blade but you could still walk into a free market and walk out with a gun.

ill give Tyrone $50 to go steal me one of them saws at Home Depot.

And if it doesn’t work do they send you another finger and sew it back on?

@@rickybobby7276 No, but why is that important? If you don't have a SawStop you have zero chance of avoiding injury. So you can choose 0% or some high probability that you won't be injured. Air bags and ABS aren't 100% effective either. Do you turn those off or buy vehicles without them because they aren't 100%? If you cut wet wood (which can trigger it) or use a hotdog to test it, they aren't going to send you a new cartridge. There is a disarm switch if you know you're going to be cutting something that will trigger it.

It's simply ludicrous to assume that the prices would be forever set in stone and no competition in the ultra-capitalist market would ever happen. Wtf... The price will absolutely come down in time, always has been with every single product and will continue to do so in the future. The video is just some stupid epic level scaremongering to kick SawStop and sell more fingers.. oh, wait. We can't buy those...

​@surferdudemi you're correct WE CAN CHOOSE. If this BS "law" passes we lose our RIGHT to choose. This places limits on our freedoms. I'll take freedom over the false sense of "safety" 100% of the time.

@seekingthelovethatgodmeans7648 sorry, I'm not in a cu|+......

One thing I love about my Metabo HPT jobsite saw is the blade guard is trivial to install or remove - it simply uses a spring-loaded peg to snap into position on the riving knife. It's easy to remove on the times I need to, but so easy to put back that I always do. This is how to do a blade guard!

You don't have to screw the blade guard on the saw stop it has a lever you pull up to loosen and down to lock. And it flips up completely out of the way but we still leave it off , till OSHA shows up lol

I hired a contractor once build a work bench and put an upside down circular saw with trigger cable ties in and make it act like a table saw

Big comercial outfits use aftermarket guards that are suspended from above. It allows to make cuts that don't go all the way through the wood. I say 1 out of 10 cuts for me I don't go all the way through

But here's the question, if the rule has a deadline to be enforced in 3 years or even less. Wouldn't any litigation that would delay that for other saw makers would mean for at least a period of time there would only be one saw manufacturer?

And can the CPSC or congress introduce regulations that basically hand one company a monopoly on a product? Also, if Bosch's design worked differently, how did they lose the patent infringement case? Capacitive sensing products are all over the place from cell phones to touch lamps, and it sounds as if the rest of Bosch's technology was different.

Gass is a lawyer. What PR consequences?

Sawstop have offered to work with the other manufacturers wanting to implement the technology. So does this indicate that Sawstop think that they can make more money on consulting fees than they would make by suing for patent infringement?

Legislators pass laws/regs all the time that make monopolies. As an example, inside the 1996 HIPPA Act the American Medical Association's (a private organization) terminology manual is required for billing. The AMA updates the manual twice a year and generates 10's of millions of dollars each year via sales.

I have an old Beaver table saw, 3200, where the guard was also a riving knife, it even tilted with the blade. With the blade guard on it won’t kickback easily. Made in the 1950s.

When Jacques Plante became the first hockey goalie to wear a mask, he was criticized for it. There are always those trying to hold back progress. Yes, safety costs.

Safety glasses and ear-pro are probably the gold standard for _good safety;_ they are cheap to buy, cheap to use (if they turn out to be needed or not), basically don't get in the way of doing the work and are highly effective for a wide verity of risks. Safety devices like in the video on the other hand are expensive to install, expensive when triggered, can disable or destroy job critical equipment and even when they work exactly correctly only mitigate a very specific risk. On top of that, they are likely to trigger under conditions where they provide no safety advantage (e.g. try working outside on a rainy day). I suspect that more than half of them will be permanently disabled and within a few years there will be an arms race between labor and regulators around bypassing them and preventing people from doing that. Passive safety guards are kinda in the middle. A lot of them are just fine, but there are a bunch more that unavoidably significantly reduce the utility of the equipment. For example, try running a dado blade on a saw that has a guard. And if the guard can be removed, then everyone "knows" that a lot of people will never use it rendering it as something that is more to protect the manufacturer in court than the user in the field.

You're a weenie for doing that 🙂

​@terrydanks I think when you get into a thing like 'hockey goalie' in an era where there's no face protection, so you take the roll with a liability aspect, and then there's a generation of goalies you're standing on the shoulders of..... The safety aspect looks like a bit of a cop out (or puss out if you wanna be intense). I can see a bunch of people who stepped up to take the risk looking down on a modern safety measure as a bit lame. "We all took the risk, if you're scared, sit on the bench and play third line defender.... watch a 'real man' play goal."

​@@benjaminshropshire2900well spoken.

That's the problem with unelected bureaucracies such as the CPSC, EPA, FDA, etc. Unlike Congress with laws, bureaucracies implement regulations as they see fit. Way more dangerous and tyrannical.

@@TM_Stone Because the average person is stupid. I bet you argued against seat belts.

@@TM_Stone I don't think it's the agencies. It's the lobbyists who manipulate the regulations for the sake of the manufacturers.

@@TM_Stone I bet you argued against seat belts. The average person has >100IQ and can't read above an 8th grade level.

​@@TM_Stone Average person has >100 IQ and can't read above an 8th grade level. You're the person who argues against seat belts.

Clarification: From the clip, Sawstop authorized Bosch to use Sawstop technology, not the Reaxx tech.

The one and only time I ever had a kickback was about 30-some-odd years ago. I was ripping a short length of a 2x4, about 3' long at a job site on a Craftsman TS. To this day I don't know what caused it, but it came back and hit me at the base of my Sternum. I was sore for a day and had a black and blue, but otherwise no other damage. I felt lucky.

I got my dads old montgomery ward radial arm saw when he died. I used if for quite a few years but scared the shit out of me. I hated to rip with it. As soon as I could afford a table saw, and a place to put it, I got one. At the same time I got a good sliding miter saw. 30 years later still using both. I am still using the table from the radial arm too.

HaHa, we must have been the only two people in the US that owned Montgomery Ward radial arm saws. I think I picked mine up for about $50 but had to have the motor rewound. The one interesting thing about mine was that on the opposite side of the motor it had two threaded spindles, one turning at the same rpm as the blade rpm and a second one that must have run through a small gearbox because it turned at a much higher speed, fast enough for routing.

My grandpa, dad, and uncle had a monkey ward radial arm saw in the early 90s. But they also had table saws without covers or riving knifes. I enjoyed cross cuts with radials and ripping with table saw. I was taught to respect them and stand to the fence side for if it throws it back. Now that there's RU-vid and actually seeing what those machines can do when something goes wrong it's kind of scary. Now I use 6", and 23" bandsaws for slabbing and ripping. Sliding Crosscut mitersaw, and 3hp tablesaw with dust cover/ guard for big sheets with a full 4'x8' catch table. Knowing what to expect and how to minimize any injury is a big step. Plus having first aid kit with a tourniquet . Lol

Literally came here to say this

Jump to the comments to find who would say it first!

When I spoke about blade guards I indicated that there are times when they must be removed. (I specifically called on manufacturers to make them easy to take off and put back on again.) The ad at the end was one of those times. I removed my guard because I was showing specific footage of the blade that would otherwise be hidden beneath it. (I was still taking several other precautions, including using a pusher, an extended fence and a riving knife.) I know some folks want to make an issue of that, because that's what people do on the internet. This channel is at the absolute forefront in encouraging blade guard use whenever possible, and I use it for almost every cut I make.

yeah i was thinking, something doesnt look quite right in that segment ...

I'm sorry but if you need to remove a guard to carry out a task then maybe you're using the wrong machine.

Perfection is impossible.

@@broca246 I agree, and to emphasize my point, that's why relying on human perfection doesn't work as well as safety that relies on engineering solutions.

What’s the total cost of all these safety mechanisms and is it so much that I can’t afford housing, quality food, medicine and doctors when I get sick? I think we have far exceeded that cost in safety and is why there are so many people below the poverty line.

@@rickybobby7276 no - minor, incremental improvements in safety regulations as new technology becomes available can barely be differentiated from rounding error on the real causes. So many people are below the poverty line because the richest 1% of Americans have directly stolen $50 TRILLION from the bottom 99% since the end of wwii. Today 3 people hold more wealth than the bottom 50% of all Americans. Wealth inequality in America today is worse than its ever been since the fall of the Roman Empire. Corporate greed is out of control - fewer and fewer mega corporations own everything and they have been bragging on earnings calls about using the excuse of inflation to gouge customers blind, leading to all time record profits since 2020, and instead of using those profits to make better products, they've directly lined their pockets even further. And to top it off, they've spent millions lobbying politicians for decades to open up all manner of tax loopholes and lower the corporate tax rate and the top income tax bracket to all time lows, so they can keep even MORE of the money that should be going back to the American people. The solution isn't to allow those companies to get away with cheeping out on safety - we've already seen that allowing them to do that doesn't result in lower costs to consumers, just higher profits for them and worse products for us. The solution is putting back in place the regulations and policies that disincentivize blind greed and making them pay their share again.

@@broca246 Not impossible :)

Yeah, makes the idea of the gov stepping in and forcing manufacturers to include the tech seem possibly reasonable... even though it will increase prices some. Reasonable folks can think it is a bad idea, but it isn't an obviously stupid one. 7 one way, half dozen the other... But I don't know which side is which.

most are probably kickback rather then blade injuries as they are much more common

Apparently the nanny state has to control every aspect our lives. I'll keep my old table saw.

Yes, sounds bogus just on the face of it.

But you do understand they remove those guards to aid in the filming of the saw, right? I know there's a humor aspect, but don't ever forget the govt is trying to take away YOUR right to determine you own risk tolerances. It's way past time to tell the Local, State and Federal clown enough. Work smart, know the value of all ten fingers, and work accordingly. YOUR safety is YOUR job, not some pencil-whipping moron in an taxpayer-funded office.

Came here to say this 😂

At least the riving knife was mounted.

I was going to make the same comment 😄

Who said American's can't do irony? 😉

He hardly ever used a blade guard and I don’t believe that those glasses he wore were safety glasses. Norm is responsible for my passion of woodworking.

@@davido856 I recall Norm and Russ Morash covering the subject in an interview. They felt that seeing the blade was integral to the audience's understanding of what Norm was doing. Ditto, I've been watching TOH (and later NYW and ATOH) since I first discovered it in the early 80s.

@@davido856 head on down to the optician, there's glasses that look EXACTLY like regular ones, except bigger, so you look like you're a poor kid in the 80's, safety lenses n all. so, is it odd fashion sense, is a home perm kit next, or is it safety glasses?

@@GrayRaceCat Yes, I have heard that removing the guard allowed the viewer better shots of the instruction, but it had an unconscious affect on the watcher that is was okay to use the saw with guards removed. Truthfully they are a pain in the neck. I watched New Yankee Workshop and Crockett ‘s Victory Garden on WGBH channel 2 from Boston every Saturday. That was long before RU-vid. It was great stuff and I learned a lot.

Norm didnt wear ear protection until someone pointed that out

As a paramedic, I applaud your efforts. Some people think we love those types of calls. While the adrenaline rush can be exciting, seeing the carnage and trauma our fellow human beings experience is tragic. I’ve seen countless firearm incidents, from accidental discharges, unintentional shootings, suicide, and murder. There’s nothing wrong with excessive safety. Those who ridicule simply don’t understand the gravity of the situation.

@@climber950 yeah, i do not see a good argument for keeping things around that are only designed to kill can't really add safety features to a thing whose only purpose is death

​@@ThylineTheGay Your problem is that you DON'T know what the actual arguments are and don't want to learn. Your ignorance is a "you" problem.

​@@Theranthrope Lol, the murder machine community consists of nothing but repeating the dumbest possible arguments imaginable. Thinking those arguments are rational is the problem.

Yep! Gotta stop all those tablesaw-related injuries the kindergartners are sustaining...

Canada is like having a second mother.....

@@drcornelius8275 das Mutterland

This is the same Canada which is "prescribing" MAID for boredom. Canada is not a serious country. (Because it's a commonwealth.)

​@@yevrahhipstar3902until last year I taught shop and math at a K-12 school, and yes, we did use a Sawstop. Of course kindergarteners don't use the table saw, but I would use it with kids down to about 6th grade. We never had an injury! However, the Sawstop saved my coworker's thumb. He was doing some cuts after hours, momentarily stopped paying attention, and put his thumb right into the blade. It worked great! And yes, he had taken the guard off

I agree. There’s probably twenty craftsman RAS on market place by me right now. He must not be looking to hard didn’t drive up the price either.

It well, just not on the sales. The impact will be on commercial uses of the old saws. Insurance premiums will spike for using non braking saws, ease of sueing for a tablesaw related injure at work will be higher for old tech saws, that sort of thing.

The only example I can think of is the sliding drop side cribs. My understanding is you can’t sell or even gift those cribs. The main difference though is banning used saws without this technology would cause the used market to evaporate overnight. That wasn’t the case with the cribs.

What % of the value of the car did it raise? Consumers didn't notice the difference. This will be a 100-200% increase in price for the most common type of table saw.

@@SpartanORGN my comment was about improvements not usually causing recalls of the old ones.

Your comment makes me wonder... will people become numb to the dangers of a table saw if they assume that all table saws have the SawStop system on it? Will they start being careless and quit using feather boards, push sticks, etc. I feel a similar thing has happened with lane assist systems on cars. People no longer need to steer accurately... no longer need to pay attention. They just react to beeps and nudges like a Pavlovian dog. Paying attention is perhaps the most versatile safety feature.

Can I have your Jet table saw ?? 😂😂 I would take it in a heartbeat, respect the blade, keep the fingers away !

@@geneticdisorder1900 Perhaps you missed the words "had" and "replaced"? I think it's long gone. But there are plenty of others out there. And if/when active safety measures are mandated, there will be LOTS more available! Just remember, each of the average of 10 woodworkers PER DAY who suffer tablesaw-related amputation hand injuries also respected the blade and most had NEVER experienced a tablesaw related injury after days to decades of tablesaw use.

If I were to accidentally set off a saw stop, I would still require a trip to the ER to restart my heart.......also trip to the laundry.😃

@@d.newsome6344 I think it all depends on how we teach “shop” and how to properly use and respect tools. Also, personal responsibility has a lot to do with it as well and that needs to be taught to everyone, but I fear that it is not anymore - just look at how some people drive and I think they all had to take drivers ed.

That's what those table-top saws replaced.

You can build a guard feature for a crosscut sled. There is no need to go without a guard. Yes, some cuts have to have the guard removed, but it's still worth utilizing one every time it's possible.

I built many saw sleds as a manufacturing engineer that work with blade guards. I'm actually having a hard time understanding why it would prevent you from making sleds

Sleds are a poor man's sliding tables, trying to fix the effect not the cause of the problem.

@@YaaLFHNope, a sled is also a zero-clearance cutting base, which is also far better for small parts and precision cutting.

After 25 years of using my 10" table saw, one day I got careless and two fingers on my left hand got "knicked". There was a hand surgeon on duty at the hospital and he repaired the damage. Then there was the two months of rehab to get those two fingers functioning properly. I believe the total cost was over 10K. Fine today.

50 years plus. However, I saw how stupid push sticks were at the get go (just holding down the wood clear at the back and ignoring the part where the blade is trying to lift the wood) and created my own. Today, we call them push shoes. They are game changers. Sadly, the designers of table saws don't always catch lessons from other things. Just as we figured out console stereos were inferior to component systems, tables saws that used splitters separate from blade guards are superior. Those splitters, one I bought an after market one, changed the game as much as the shoes did.

I think you hit on something pretty important. You SHOULD have a healthy fear of your table saw. It's the most dangerous tool you own. You should be afraid for your fingers on every cut thereby sharpening your focus on the task at hand.

fear and respect are the great tools for keeping your fingers.

That's called respecting the tool.

Yea going from a sawstop to an older no safety feature saw for the first time would be like walking into a horror movie.

…which may be the best explanation for a lot of the injuries.

😂I’ve got that old saw out in my garage now from a local auction. Haven’t ever even fired it up. Yeah. I’m a beginner with all ten digits and plan to keep it that way so I bought the dewalt . And haven’t fired it up either. But will this summer with all safety features engaged. I didn’t make it 55 yrs just to get schmucked up at the back end of life!

@@chewyfingers1288 good plan.

"the best safety feature is the one between your ears" and thus, 40,000 injuries per year. it's impossible to defeat stupidity. not by education, not by incentives, not by regulation can it be done.

Yep the prices of homes, furniture, and any wood related products will keep going up.

You generally have to remove it if you want to cut a dado, or any non-through cut.

If you really believe that dull knifes cause more injuries than shapr knifes you haven't spent a lot of time with knifes. Old wife's tale that some knife ignorant person came up with.

My riving knife will work with shallow cuts if I don't use dado blades. If a person really wanted to they could get a second riving knife and make it shorter for smaller diameter blades.

@@Yellow.Dog. Disagree with your disagree. Dull knife takes more force to do the job. More pressure leads to less control and more chances of a slip that overshoots into flesh when something finally gives. Dull knife leads to frustration. Frustration leads to poor choices. Dull knife is a sign of someone not taking caring of their tools. Someone not taking care of their tools is likely less experienced and more prone to having poor technique and safety habits.

@@seanlarabee6300 No worries. I've sat around many a campfire and such and asked the question at those types of activities as a "project" of sorts for many years. Also, in my 70 years I have had many more serious injuries with sharp knifes than dull. My butter knife injuries have been few.

Question 🙋‍♂️ how much money does it cost you to replace all the bits 🔩 🪚 every time 🕰️ it’s triggered. Genuine question from a woodworking newbie who is two years into his woodworking hobby and 18 months with a low price bench top tablesaw…🤓👍

@@simonmountford4291 The brake is $140 in Canada, probably around $100 US plus however much your blade costs.

​@@simonmountford4291A lot less than the ER bill works have been.

It still doesn't make sense cuz you can still operate the saw with no brake once it trips🎉

@@aetorres7422 I don't see how. The action of the brake in pulling the blade into the table destroys the blade and ruins the brake.

It's not if you actually listened to what was said. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-ETzhlw3PpWA.htmlsi=Os-KTDe4ACPEgQaF&t=284

@@StumpyNubs I watched, well done.

So then if the minimum price is $10,000 that'd also be good with you? $20? $50? $100,000? After all, safety is priceless, so how dare anyone try to skimp on safety just because they can't afford a several thousand dollar saw

I find it interesting that everyone equates the cost difference as being the price of safety. Saw Stop make a very high quality tool with excellent machining and finish. That level of quality is also part of the cost difference. I grew up with Delta and own mint condition 1960 and 1980 Unisaws - neither have the quality of the Saw Stop. When you look at the whole Saw Stop package it is very good value for the money.

What an entitled and self absorbed way of looking at things. Take a break from beating your kids and think before you comment. This is nanny state crap that forces smaller users out of the market. Pound sand.

You are why I can't afford the tools to start my own business. Enemy of liberty.

So should saws be more expensive, or should ER visits be cheaper...?

Uhhh...from what you wrote, it would seem you think any woodworking shop should have a 24" radial arm saw. Uhhh, I don't think they're that common in home shops.

I don't have a 24, but do have a 16 inch Dewalt radial arm with a 7-1/2 hp motor in my shop. And yes , the 24 inch are scary to operate.

Thanks for sharing

Apparently it had issues with mobile phone interference. I'm assuming this is one of the reasons it never came back to the market.

​@@theScamBKLYNTurn your phone to saw safe mode now... 😂

Here's the rub - the patent that Saw Stop is willing to "dedicate to the public" deals with capacitive detection. That special technology is how the touchscreen on your phones and tablets work. That is a patent that never should have been granted given how ubiquitous capacitive detection is in our daily lives.

I don't know if it's true but I heard that the React saws are for sale in Europe or England. Don't know if it's true.

@@a9ball1 Fine Woodworking reported it last month as part of their coverage on this table saw stuff.

What`s a finger worth to you? People need to strongly consider safety. Remember, there are no atheists on a crashing airplane.

All someone has to do is get into the blade one time to turn on that light 💡 bulb. I got bit and put a tooth through my thumb when a gust of wind threw sawdust into my eyes around my safety glasses. I jerked my left hand up to my face and BAM! I had swung my arm across the blade. I was off to the left side and using a push stick, but instinctive reaction happened before I realized it. It felt like my arm got hit with a steel rod; everything healed but there is still nerve damage on the top of my thumb.

I am in complete accordance with you. Nobody plans an accident.

Well if you have the money & it's a added value to you then that's your right to buy it. But forcing others that either can't afford that extra cost or don't see a added value to it, that's not just unmoral it's unAmerican

@@jasonstephenson793 this is insane

My uncle had 2 "stumpy nubs" and he almost had a 3rd one, thanks to a kickback in his younger years from a circular saw with a disabled blade guard, that 3rd one was not on his hands.... or feet. Yeah, that one. Cut 3/4 of the way thru it and it had to be stitched.

Been using table saws since shop class in grade 7 at 12 years old. Been in the industry 45 + years Placed a thumb in a bag to accompany its' owner to the hospital. Ran my own manufactering for 25 years. I have seen the most experienced, conscientious people including myself get cut with a table saw. I will go as far as to say all users have had some sort of close call. Anytime I bring up my story of a close call to anyone, they are quick to relate their story to me. In the last ten years, I was called on to teach and set up a post secondary school shop. As I was not capable of patrolling every single minute of operation for all the students, I purchased two Industrial Saw Stops. The piece of mind brought on by this decision was and is priceless. As the owner and operator of a minimum of fifteen different table saws both industrial and portable I can say without exageration that the SawStop is by far the highest quality saw that I have ever operated. The extra cost is a small price to pay as everything is exceptionaly well thought out and the company has been great to deal with. I have no affiliation with SawStop. Any additional safeguard should be more than welcomed. Stumpy Nubs your argument of money over this safety feature is inexcusable. Just because you haven't had an accident does not equate to you won't. Please recant.

What about push sticks without guard? Is that sufficiently safe

huh. I respect your decision. I have been a carpenter for almost 20 yrs and always treat the saws with respect. No acidents

@@diggingupnorth3453 that was what my boss always said too took him about 40 years of daily use before he was careless once. I think it's possible to be very safe with a table saw don't get me wrong, but I still like the insurance policy.

You cover yourself in bubble wrap, too?

@@Jaze2022yep

Without being too graphic, how did you lose your ring finger and none of the others?

@@thegardenofeatin5965 so I was making a cut turn off the saw and went to move a piece of wood by the blade and nicked my middle finger and badly cut my ring finger. i was really lucky that I had turn the saw off as it was only spinning down otherwise i would have lost fingers . I Still have no feeling in said finger above the cut.

I agree that a riving knife and guard are important, but I think it'd be fairly easy to implement a kickback-sensing system using either contact rotary encoders or a sensor similar to what optical mice use. The fastest mice scan their sensors around 8,000 times per second, which would allow detection of a kickback before the saw blade could rotate more than about 3 degrees, assuming a 4,000 rpm motor. Once a kick is detected, the AIM mechanism could be triggered, stopping the blade and limiting the energy imparted to the workpiece. The downside is that any detected kick would trash the AIM module and blade, meaning you get to shell out another $100+ every time it happens, so false positives could be a problem.

@@stevepreskitt283 I think Festool already does a form of this with their newer track saws.

Great video!!!! I'm one of those guys that got hurt because my saw didn't have a riving knife. I was in my shop very late, making my last cut on 1/4" plywood. I was rather tired and should have stopped a few cuts earlier, but I wanted to finish the cutting phase of the project, so I pressed on. I had finished the cut, but failed to clear the blade with the wood. In my mind, I started to lift my left hand to power off the saw. Unknowingly, at the same time, my right hand ever so slightly rotated counter clockwise and I felt a super sharp pain in my left wrist. The hands had moved mear fractions of an inch and the pain was intense!. The saw had grabbed the piece of wood, about 12" square, creating the classic "C" and slammed in to my left wrist. Before I could collect my senses, the affected area on my wrist started to swell and was about the size of a silver dollar and a few fractions high. I powered off the saw, went into my house, using a zip lock bag I created an ice pack and let it set for at least 30 minutes after realizing the wrist had not been broken. Very shortly after that, I upgraded the saw with a riving knife. The mfg of the saw actually sold the saw in Europe with the riving, but it was necessary for me to get a residence of Europe to purchase to parts and ship them to me. I did contact the mfg and questioned why they didn't sell the saw in the USA with the riving knife. I was told that to sell the saw in the USA, it would require extensive testing to get USA approval because the authorities would not accept the approval granted by the European authorities. Because I plan to continue my woodworking hobby until I'm forced to stop, at 82 years of age, I'm upgrading to a SawStop. Yes, it is expensive, but for me, it is worth it.

For the record, you can actually disable the sawstop braking feature.

I led a multimillion dollar mishap investigation that had, as its root cause, the removal of that ground prong.

I was wondering why my old aluminum-bodied PET circular saw had the ground prong broken off and had grip tape over the plug. I never considered that. Come to think of it, I’m shocked (no pun intended) most of my old power tools have grounded plugs in the first place.

And how long before circular saws with 10 inch blades for sale cheap start coming in from china for just such purpose (they might even include cheap plans for the clueless)

or an upsid down jigsaw.

My favorite is the upside down hammer.

Alright, let me ask you a question. Any of you can answer, mind you. As an example, the cell phone nearly all of you has handy is chock full of technology that is subject to Free, Reasonable, and Non-Discriminatory terms to all. Basically, you don't get a monopoly on production, but you do get a cut of the entire global market. This accomplishes a couple of goals. One, it incentivizes further innovation rather than delaying advancements for decades at a time; two, it encourages corporations to compete on quality and price, rather than litigation teams and finding ways to exploit intellectual property law. And it kept the market from splintering between a whole bunch of incompatible systems. Why should a safety device that greatly reduces the probability of catastrophic harm -- for which the public often eats the cost, both in ER bills and disability -- be held to a lower standard of public service than something that's closer to a creature comfort? If they made all the relevant patents FRAND, and then mandated that starting in a few years, all saws must either come with an active safety system or be capable to readily integrating the system, would you still be opposed? It might still add $100-150 to the bottom of the market. But I'd jump at a version of the cheap Skil table saw that's usually ~$250, but that would be capable of accepting a braking sysyem and sensor later down the line, even at $500. Whereas from all I've heard, the Saw Stop jobsite version is worse quality than the Skill, and is ~$600 more expensive. So, if I found a future in woodworking, now I and every other newbie has to reckon with ~$1500-2000 upgrade to the next upgrade in saw that has a safety system. Or we could spur innovation, license the tech, and force these manufacturers to stop consolidating under 3 brands, and actually get back to clever ideas, lower prices, and consistent advancement.

The good news is, we can avoid liability for selling a non-monopoly saw by selling all the components (blades, guides, etc.) that go with it, then pointing out they can have them only if the haul off the saw too.