Book Battle: Rappan Athuk vs. Barrowmaze 

One of Rappan Athuk's creators, Matt Finch, has his own RU-vid channel "Matt Finch RPG Studio". You should see about doing a colab video with him! He regularly does interviews with other DMs.

The thing about empty rooms is that they are really important for the playstyle that works with megadungeons. Empty rooms are important when fleeing, setting up ambushes, etc.

This video was like hearing the ramblings of some old hermit who lives in the wilderness, enjoyed it though thanks!

The Barrowmaze cover is what made me take notice of the book. I see an Erol Otus cover, im already half sold. The book itself is easily the best mega dungeon out there! great vid Runehammer.

I was literally just staring at these two books on my shelf when I saw this video appear. Just the kinda content I was in the mood for! Thanks Hankerin!

The Forbidden Caverns of Archaia adds to Barrowmaze and is amazing as well.

Thank you. Very entertaining! Lol If you’d like to chat together about it in a video sometime let me know.

I've heard a number of people who suggest the opposite when it comes to unoccupied rooms, especially in large dungeons like these. In fact I think Bryce Lynch advocates this. The reason is partly what you point out (i.e. "What's in THIS room?") but also so the players don't always have their guards up. Old-school play style is light on things like perception checks, so precautions specified by players are much more important. If every room has something going on, the players always have their guard up, always prodding ahead with the ten-foot pole, etc. I am a fan of that style for a really big dungeon, but for a smaller one I agree with you.

Barrowmaze is the bee's knees. I run it as often as I can! Great little book battle here.

I ran my first session of Barrowmaze this week using the Dragonslayer RPG. It was a great time, and I am fired up to play Barrowmaze more. I had Rappan Athuk but could never get into because it was far to word dense for my cave man brain.

Gone Fishing works as a lead in for Deep Carbon Observatory. A NPC (poor homeless boy) fishing next to the players caught the Legendary Pike. Before it died on the banks it said Now you have done it! The gods in anger raised the water of the lakes and rivers. Flooding the lands. I had the players make lots of rolls but they did not know. Survival was guaranteed for the flood at least. Then I started Deep Carbon on them. The horror of the flood and aftermath was greater for them. They experienced the place before the destruction.

As far as I am concerned, since Stonehell and Maze of the Blue Medusa, no megadungeon writer has an excuse for not including minimaps of the relevant portions of the dungeon on the same page as the room descriptions. And a version of the bigger map with summaries about what's in them written on the map itself.

Both are awesome. We've played a bit of Barrowmaze (and some of Highfell, one of Gillespie's other megadungeons), but have yet to brave Rappan Athuk. I dropped a bunch of the major megadungeons into my homebrew campaign for potential use someday.

King for a Day. It is an incredible mega crawl. 200 NPCs, 30+ pages of handouts, months of campaign time.

Awesome vid Hank. Great to see you’ve got a copy of the Rules Cyclopaedia - mine’s got yellowing pages and in need of a new cover and probably new binding but remains one of the most useful books in my RPG collection just for flashes of inspiration and ideas.

I learned about Rappan Athuk and gave up on them when I could not figure out what was and was not needed. So many products that are unclear to me. SO many people talk about it like it is great, but I found it very difficult to get into as someone who came to it much later in the party so to speak.

I'm prepping to run Barrowmaze in a couple of weeks, and I think the most impressive thing is the tight gameplay loop. I wish it was more expressly stated, as I think that it is the beating heart of the module and how it is meant to be run. Getting to the dungeon is a 4-hour trip, so 8 hours round trip. This leaves 8 hours for exploration and 8 hours back in town for recovery. The thing that cements this loop is the number of potential encounters while idling on the Barrowmoor, at the Barrowmounds, or in the actual Barrowmaze itself. With so many potential encounters, only the heartiest, most paranoid, and overprepared parties can hang out for more than a day. I also like that adventuring is limited to the summer months. This forces a heavy time pressure on the party to try and loot as much as possible before the dungeon becomes inaccessible for 9 months. To me, this is a boon, as it allows side adventures, downtime activities (training skills, researching spells, siring children with the locals), and a compelling reason to explore the other wilderness areas that surround the Barrowmoors.

My two cents from 2022: First off, great review. I have both books and I recommend both. I feel like Barrowmaze is the better megadungeon if you're going to base an entire campaign around that megadungeon. I feel like Rappan Athuk would be super cool to just be part of a world (I think it's part of Swords and Wizardry's Borderland Provinces setting). The heroes could go do whatever, and when they felt strong enough they could go down the Well or whatever the most recent entrance they discovered is. When they do, they probably won't know what to expect. In Barrowmaze you know you're always going to get undead + undead with a side of more undead. Brilliantly delivered variations on undead, sure, but that's the price you pay for the focus Runehammer talks about in his review. Barrowmaze is an incredible work. Rappan Athuk has way more variety, though, and Orcus. Does it make sense? Probably not. Will the players care? Same answer. I find both books are a lot of fun to read. Haven't had a chance to play either of them. Have to find a good OSR group soon.

Hope to see you doing more boosting! Love this content reminiscent of your DM required reading escapades.

Nice timing with this. Although it's been out a while, I only recently bought the pdf version of BM, an have just started running it (currently 2 sessions in, and the PC's have just found the entrance to the maze itself ...and experienced the horror of room 2 ;) ). Now, I don't usually run modules/adventures/paths (I much prefer to write my own material) ...but I'm really enjoying running this one - and the players are having a good time too :) So, it looks like I made the right choice :) :) :) Anyway, thanks for all the vids you put out (I watch, but rarely comment) ...keep up the good work!

Really like that you are helping others create games, it's so important that the hobby has more indy creators. Great job.

As owner of both of these fine books, I have to agree that Barrowmaze is the better mega-dungeon and overall adventure, but both are pretty amazing. Barrowmaze is definitely geared and themed around the undead, where you will get much more variety of encounters and levels in Rappan Athuk, but ease of use, art, and being able to digest easily puts Barrowmaze over the top between these two. Also, is the book that shall not be named, The Maze of the Blue Medusa? Huge fan of that one as well.

Love me some Book Battles! Runehammer rocks!

I would love to see Rappan Athuk revisited by Runeahmmer with your art and improvements. I'm reading the beginning of RA and RA Explorations. I find it fascinating.

Watching this video again as I'm contemplating which of these megadungeons to run. I have to say, I disagree about the quiet room thing. I think it adds to the atmosphere and makes the dungeon seem more real. But, I can see your point. I think it's just a difference of opinion and, hey, different strokes for different folks.

I loved the Cars from the 70s bit. That is perfect. I am currently working on big ol' Dungeon and using ICRPG and your channel to help

"Progression through acquisition and through actions, not through options." Thanks for that line.

I think that Barrowmaze does have added value of with some tables it can have plots outside the Barrowmaze too. Just the barest of bones for DMs from the bones of an ancient structure in the Black Wood, or the mayor of Helix's advisor being courted by one of the necromancers, to the witch in the wood with Troll Servants.

Thanks for the comparison! Barrowmaze also has a toolkit in the back for making your own barrows. Were you not as impressed by that?

HANK, A PROGRAM HERE I WAS BINGE WATCHING A DELUGE OF YOUR VIDEOS WHILE WORKING ON MY GAME AND I NOTICED YOUR OLDER VIDEOS WERE WARMER AND MORE INVITING, AT THE TABLE WITH THE GOLD WALL ART. I AM NOT TRYING TO BE A DOOSH, I STILL LOVE THE CONTENT, WEARING ONE OF YOUR SHIRTS RIGHT NOW, ROCK ON.

Well, I can't afford the books right now, but I'll definitely pick up some honey crisp apples the next time I hit the store. Good vid!

Sir, it appears we share a dungeoneering soul. Writing this several years after you published this review, Mr Gillespie has only gotten better. I also appreciate your disdain for clickbait. Right, I’m off to worship at the altar of the Frog God…

I just bought the PDF for Highfell, the latest megadungeon from Greg Gillespie, I guess he'll be working on another one sometime soon?

I enjoyed the drunkens and dragons stuff. And I enjoy this new stuff too. And amen, "old-school" is exclusive, not inclusive. It's not my fault I wasn't born soon enough to enjoy first edition dnd.

Photocopying a game book at Safeway LOL. For me, it was the 2e Monstrous Compendium, and it was Krogers.

I wish they still had a POD option for Barrowmaze on DriveThruRPG. They only have the 5E version and I play OSR. Great video though! Always a fan of your content!

Agree on Kickstarter! If a company, which has more than adequate resources to produce a thing, instead opts to dangle a carrot in front of fans, via a kickstarter; that's basically blackmail.

I think a look at the newer Rappan Athuk if not the 5e, the sword and wizardry version might address the stat and mechanic issue. (Im biased as I have loved it since it 3rd ed) I do agree that it needs more art and could be cut and cleaned up. The Barrow Maze art is evocative except the cover I agree that is weird. I like your break down.

Crazy man! This is the modern age! You go to Staples or Kinko or whatever. They have self serve printers and copiers that take CREDIT CARDS! I use them all the time when I've made standees and character sheets for players and such.

@37mins yes brother! Yes! Authentic is what i come here for.

Great review. You sold me! Great boosting! Would love you thoughts on the adventure “Operation Unfathomable “. Great tone and amazing art! Thanks again!

Put the Barrowmaze in the Troll Fens not too far from Zelkor’s Ferry. Best of both.

What you think as a plus of Barrowmaze becomes a drag over extended play of it being almost completely undead encounters

Have you ever done a video review of The Black Hack? I would be interested in hearing your thoughts on it.

Hittin' the youtubes hard this July.

No matter what I do with this snowball mic, it isnt cool. :(

I have Barrowmaze 1 and 2, but I never considered it even in the same league as Rappan Athuk, I think its missing the full art stuff, I dont like the unclear maps spread over some pages at the very end of the books, also some stuff missing that might be in the complete edition such as NPC parties and maybe even the whole town that you mentioned.

A little note about you mentioning the rules cyclopedia: it actually is available in POD format on drivethru so you can get a print copy somewhat cheap (at least compared to original printing).

YES THE BOOK COVER IS A FUNDAMENTAL ELEMENT.

I still aspire to run the dungeon that must not be named ... motbm for my favorite players some time but I’ll check out barrowmaze!

WHAT WAS THE OTHER MEGADUNGEON THAT HE STARTS TALKING ABOUT AROUND 20 MINS IN????

I have both and agree 100% about Rappan Athuk I also agree that Barrowmaze is superior, but have less complaints.

OMG this is so NEEDED! MEGA Dungeon book battle: -Dungeon of the Mad Mage from WOTC -Scarlet Citadel from Kobold

Who doesn't have a scanner/photo copier on their printer?

Legitimacy, Ingvey. Legitimacy. Love you.

I'll confess, mega-dungeons hold almost zero interest for me, but good town rules - that I'd buy as a book all on its own. Also, random chart fatigue is real! There seems to be a misconception out in the world that more results on a random chart is better, but when you read it, your brain is trying to hold the whole chart in your head, to have a sense of it and how useful it is, and if the charts are too big, it can't do it. I'm starting to think a random chart shouldn't be more than 12 things - but each one of them should be awesome! Cut the fluff out of these random charts.

Video starts around 12:00.

Empty rooms are for DMs imaginations

In honor of Nerull and Orcus can we get to 666 Likes and then Runehammer can you lock that in place so we can never get any more likes. The gods of the dead demand that and shall not be denied. They will flay the flesh of all living interlopers who don't show their devotiion by hitting the Like button.

Barromaze II: Honeycrisp Boogaloo

Looooooovvvvvve Gillespie

What are your thoughts on The Dungeon of the Mad Mage?

Rappan or Barrowmaze using ICRPG rules ? Which one is better ?

Is it as big as "the world's largest dungeon"?

Seems like a lot of the OSR products have a fetish for random tables.

RA for 3.5 is only $40 from Frog God Games.

No links for the books?

Crap people don't photocopy D&D maps anymore? Must be why my librarian thinks I'm a weirdo lol.

Is the cover even important in a book ???? really?

emerald spire Vs dungeon of the mad mage

the volume is --~_=;.... Great video otherwise!

Done those two but had more fun with this one tenfootpole.org/ironspike/?p=806

a bit late to this. But I was looking into dwarrowdeep, the new megadungeon by greg. But unfortunately it seems he went all reactionary anti-woke.

This would’ve been really good it’s not for the host trying to be funny. Oh well, I gave it a chance.