I agree so often with your opinions that it's refreshing to finally disagree. I loved The Bee Sting even though the story is indeed a very classical family saga, and when I initially read the first couple of pages I thought they were well written, but I wasn't really interested. The only reason I actually bought and read a copy eventually was because I had read all the other Booker shortlisted novels, kind of unexpectedly, and then I thought why not complete my reading and read this one as well. I thought it was nearly perfect literary suspense. And that combination of good literary qualities and suspense feels so rare sometimes. I think it was Eric Karl Anderson who talked about the cliffhangers at the end of the chapters and how they may be the key to the interpretation of the controversial ending. I loved the pacing. When I compare it to Demon Copperhead, for instance, I had just been at readings with both Kingsolver and Murray at the Lit.Cologne festival, so I have been thinking about that comparison a bit. Both are very long novels, and getting through Demon Copperhead was so painful, and I flew through the pages of The Bee Sting. A long comment in response to a long book :)
Lovely to finally disagree with you as well😂. To me it felt like Murray had ideas for two good characters (Imelda and PJ) and decided to pair them with two stereotypical characters in a dysfunctional family through implausible and tenuous connections and plot devices only to bring them together in an ending that seemed too perfectly coordinated for reality. But, I am definitely in the minority.
@@BookishTexan The funny thing is that at the reading, Paul Murray mentioned that he actually designed this novel around Cassie and Dickie, so they were the two POV characters of this story who came to Murray first, not Imelda and PJ. I would agree, by the way, that the plot movements of the novel were not realistic. I felt like I was manipulated by the author throughout the novel, but in a good way, like you are always manipulated by the storyteller in a piece of suspense.
haha, do you really think the author realized the book was boring? I would hope they would put it aside then and write something else instead of publish it. Isn't this quite popular as well? I haven't been keeping up with things lately and get the Bee-books jumbled up. Oops.
OKAY, Brian next time you quickly spoil a popular book, so quickly I can't turn off my phone as I have you speaking at 2.0 --- make the note on your comments in CAPS. 😊
My major complaint with “The Bee Sting” is the author’s choice to dispense with grammar and punctuation. I found it gimmicky. I agree with your assessment of “Small Mercies.” The ending is far from plausible. On the positive side,being from Massachusetts and having lived as a young college student for a semester in South Boston, he definitely captured the “circle the wagons” mentality. A much better Lehane book is “Mystic River.”
Oh Finally! Someone who didn’t get along with The Bee Sting. I was so sure I’d love it because the praise was universal. I bought the U.K. edition from Blackwell’s and thankfully was able to sell it on Pango. Such a huge disappointment. I just didn’t care about any of them other than the son (and even then, only slightly). You made me feel less crazy/like a bad reader 😂❤
Ha! Glad to hear this. I slogged through the first parts- all those long sections about bog standard characters😡- by the time I got to the end I a) saw it coming a hundred pages away and b) didn’t care what happened to any of them. It was infuriating.
I must admit I did not notice gratuitous urination scenes! I did hear Groff speak about Vaster Wilds and she talked about wanting to write and anti-Indian captivity narrative. Not sure if that reframes how you think about the girl's interactions with the Indigenous peoples. I can't find my notes. Groff is such an eloquent speaker, it sounded so brilliant at the time!
The Vaster Wilds is very ambitious and in places brilliant. I felt like her theme sometimes weighed too heavily on the plot and characters, but it is a very good book.
I was in the same judging group and even though we ranked the books fairly differently, you made valid points for all of them and I was very entertained by your reviews. I'm going to subscribe now!
Interesting to hear a nuanced negative review of the Bee Sting - always good to hear all points of view. ( I haven’t read it yet though was put off by so many saying the end was poor)
It just wasn’t for me. Something I didn’t say in the review was that Murray picks up the pace and builds some real tension into the much shorter chapters that make up the last 100+ pages. The problem for me was that I didn’t care what happened to the characters at that point.
I didn’t like the bee sting either in fact I didn’t finish it so I’m glad you didn’t like it I thought I might have been the only person in the world to dnf it 😊
you should read Matrix if you have not already. it should have won National Book Award the year it was shortlisted, in my opinion. It is absolutely amazing. @@BookishTexan
You noting bees were present in your best and worst reads of the round made me chuckle. I read a fiction group for the first time and found that The Queen of Dirt Island was my top choice from my six. -Becks
I really did not like Skippy Dies, so I have been happy sitting on the sidelines of the Bee Sting discourse. Someone did convince me to try it but within ten pages I could tell all the problems I had with Skippy Dies were back, so I walked away and never looked back. I would also say that Skippy Dies was too long--but people love that novel so I am definitely the minority. 🤷♂ I've also had problems with Dennis Lehane's writing. He also seems to love disappeared or murdered women in his writing, which... isn't great. I did really like Loved and Missed and would rank it over The Vaster Wilds, but I see why you came to the conclusion you reached. I've been wanting to read Sebastian Barry but would very likely start elsewhere among his books. I hadn't been curious at all about Big Swiss, but you made me wonder! Thanks for sharing your thoughts on these books.
The thing about the Bee Sting is that I just didn’t feel like it earned the time and effort it took to read it. There was too much that didn’t contribute anything to the actual story. It was really close between Loved and Missed and Vaster Wilds. This was my first Lehanne so thanks for the heads up.
I was so excited about The Bee Sting because I loved Skippy Dies. But I've stalled out at page 167, in the mother's section, and I'm in no rush to pick it up again. I really loved Mystic River by Dennis Lehane but nothing else I've read by him impressed me so much. You've convinced me to reconsider Big Swiss, which I thought might be mostly hype. I've not read Sebastian Barry, either, and clearly need to correct that.
I might try Mystic River to give Lehanne another chance. Big Swiss was the right balance of unusual and memorable characters for me. Roz from Scallydandling About the Books had a different take on the book if you haven’t watched her ranking video.
I felt similarly about The Bee Sting, Brian. I also had a powerful reaction to Old God's Time. I have had Big Swiss on my list of books to read. I guess I need to get to it. I judged non-fiction in the first round, and my top three books are all moving on, so I felt good about that. Like you, I had one book in the six that I really disliked, and I guess my fellow judges agreed. I am in a fiction group for round 2. SO here we go again.
Sebastian Berry's "Days Without End" made it into my top 10 favourite novels back when I read it, though as usual I remember almost nothing about it other than having a feeling that it was about a trans lady during an era (mid 1800s) when they didn't yet have the language to describe tans experiences, so the character was presented as a cross-dressing man. But not long ago I was surprised to discover that the book has a sequel ("A Thousand Moons"), so sometime relatively soon I'd like to do a reread of the first book and a first-read of the second.
Love seeing titles that are less known beat out big names 😁 I really disliked The Vaster Wilds, but Groff does have tremendous prose. For a lot of the things you said the character had so little believability from her background and experiences in how she acts/survives. Definitely did not forsee that top ranking 😮 I've been on and off the fence about whether I want to give that book a try,but I think you've given me a nudge toward it.
The Vaster Wilds definitely has some credibility issues. In addition to it ambition I also appreciated its ability to describe the natural world, but I can definitely see disliking it.
I love that you loved Big Swiss. It’s such a big swing and I was there for almost all of it. I found the notion that everyone in town knows everyone a little hard to swallow, but there was so much good humour and craziness that I just went with it.
That does strain credibility a bit, but having grown up in and lived in a small town/suburban community there is a kernel of truth I think. It was a refreshing and fun read (despite its sometimes serious content) that it really stood out for me among the others.
I haven’t read any of these, yet. Though I do have Small Mercies and The Bee Sting on my list. 😂. I am always much more comfortable judging non-fiction. I really enjoyed most of my books overall and my top 3 did go on to the next round. I was pleasantly surprised by The Underworld. It’s not a book I would normally pick up, and I truly loved it. That’s what I enjoy best about the BookTube Prize.
I would have put these books in almost the exact opposite order. But this is why I love listening to book reviews, because even when I disagree, it helps me think about books in a different way. I think your take on all these books is so interesting.
I'm a couple of chapters in to The Bee Sting, but I'll set it aside for the non-fiction round I have next. I think I'll keep it bookmarked though, since it made it through to the next round. (I was trying to read ahead in case I got it in my group, but got a NF group that includes nothing I have read lol)
I skipped over The Bee Sting review because I'm still thinking about reading it...but then again maybe not! The only book from this group that I've read was Old God's Time, and I think you describe it very well. My video about group C will be coming out whenever it feels like uploading.
Thanks Brian! I’ve heard of all of these but not read any yet. I’m more interested in The Vaster Wilds bc of your review. And prob less interested in The Bee Sting. 😊 Thanks again!
Goodness me your take on Bee Sting and Small Mercies is like hearing my own thoughts in another voice. I really enjoyed how you described the strengths of The Vaster Wilds. Seems I am less bothered by descriptions of urination than laborious detailing of other physical functions. You make a good case for Big Swiss. The use of the transcripts worked really well for me too. But the house stuff became tiresome for me.
I think all that stuff from Big Swiss just passed me by. The house stuff I enjoyed in part because I lived in a terrible house in college that Beagan’s book reminded me of.
@@BookishTexan haha. I lived in a ruin as a student too. Ice on the inside of the windows in the morning and a shower that was a pipe through the wall with a rubber hose head. Formative stuff obviously.
I DNFed murray's earlier book skippy dies but the bee sting sounds worse lauren groff is an author I've heard really good things about and as for big swiss very glad u liked it as some people said it was funny but they didn't know what the overall point was supposed to be⚛😀
