Talkin' bout dem killers that ignore your skill and stuff. Sorry the music was slightly loud, I have no idea why. Didn't sound like that til I uploaded it. / scottjund
As a survivor main, I feel so entitled whenever I say certain killers are boring and I hate it because I don't like being grouped with those types of survivors
I find it hilarious how a freddy can run 4 slowdown perks with 2 slowdown addons but as soon as i say its incredibly boring to verse reddit killers instantly think its because freddy is a strong killer. No bitch i just don’t enjoy 30 minute long games
I love how you’re able to empathise with both sides in this game. One of the main sources of toxicity in this game is not having any empathy for the other side. If people are killer mains, they don’t care about the other side, most survivor mains don’t care about killers experiences either, but you strike the perfect balance, which is why BHVR should be listening to you, but of course, they don’t. Either way, keep up the great content
No he's not. He doesn't empathize with Killers at all. Not a word was said about the reason people play 'unfun' Killers - because survivors' playstyles are unfun.
@@savevsdeath literally the first recommended video on my right to this video is a 15 minute video I made about how busted maps are in favor of survivors.
We do exist, even if we're rare. I was always on the forums going after both sides equally, until I was unjustly banned because one of my brothers NEVER listens to me and I got heated. You cannot understand DbD unless you play both sides. DbD is two separate games interacting with each other. And yes, Scott, that was my thread.
I just want the game where survivors play somewhat smart. Where there isnt a ton of second chance perks. And killers can't get free kills by slapping on NOED end even though they suck. And no more huge indirect ruin buffs. The game should be less about what you do before the game actually begins that decides the outcomes. Bad map balance, add on balance is and perk balance is not good because people just use the most broken shit almost every game. Thank God they finally addressed moris and keys are coming soon. There's too many things like that where you can basically slap on and win for free. On both sides.
Yup. The big issue is killers designed to EXCELL in 1v1. The reason spirit is so fucking good is because she has an insanely good 1v1 WITH a map mobility power. That combo is disgustingly good. Deathslinger has great 1v1, but suffers in 1v5 because his power is very much designed around the 1v1 and has nothing to move around the map very quickly. The best part about the gameplay is the chase, and even if a killer isn’t “top tier,” the annoying design of their 1v1 is what gets people angry, understandably, and that’s what makes the killer annoying.
So true I see a lot of survivor talk about the 1v1 aspect of the game while kinda ignoring the fact that 3 other people are completing gens. I've had some awesome chases as and against survivors and the chases that have last about a minute when 2-3 gens pop. As a killer when you're having a fun chase and you finally catch that survivor and 2-3 of the 5 gens are gone it doesn't feel very good regardless of the 1v1 you just had. As a survivor, if you ran a killer around for 60secs and 2-3 gens pop you feel accomplished yet depending on the killer player the game could switch from just a friendly match to sweaty real fast. It doesn't feel good when you are punished for playing the game no matter which side you are on.
Dont forget demogorgon dlc and upwards the maps they have added have all been terrible balance wise and generally unfun to play on for one side if not both
Hate to be reductionist but it's because of survivor complaints. No other reason why they'd nerf the widely accepted "most balanced/fun killer in the game"
Eh, I'm probably in the minority, but I never really liked playing against Hillbilly. I just didn't have fun, and I just didn't like how he could oneshot you right as the chase began. He definitely shouldn't be nerfed, I'm not sure what the dev's logic is behind that one.
Tristan Blanchard that’s usually how it goes. Best way to tell if a nerf/buff was unjustified is if only one side was asking for it, excluding quality of life changes and minor stuff.
@@MrFusion "as the chase began" is implying you literally stand out in the open when he's chasing you, which implies you don't know very well how to loop him, cuz that's literally not what you're supposed to do, which proves the theory of people not liking billy cuz they don't know how to loop him, which is their fault, not billy's
So around the 10 minute mark, when you're talking about how killers like Clown and Doctor are 'boring' 'cause they force you to play in a specific way to counter them.... well that's why there's so many killers. So what if there's only a couple ways to counterplay a specific killer? Barring a ridiculous string of (bad?)luck you won't face the exact same killer over and over and over, so your variety of play comes from facing others. You use anti-Clown tactics when facing a Clown, and then switch up your strategy when you face a new one. Come in with perks/items not suited for the killer you got? Oh well, but that's the ever-present risk. On another note, I DESPISE the idea of 'balance' being the homogenization of (nearly) all killers being reduced to running the same tired loops for an M1 in the exact same way. Let the powers be worthwhile.
He's not complaining that they force you to play a specific way, he's complaining that the counterplay amounts to doing the same thing every time. Plague is another example of boring, because the counter is to not interact with her power and stay one hit the entire game.
Its Just a Very survivor sided argument. So all killers should be looped 3 times on one same pallet/window? I like going against a challenge, when I see ghostface or bubba I know its a free win(If my teammates do gens). Because I Just loop them in the most easy ways. I get happy when I see huntress, deathslinger, Freddy,etc. Because they ARE a real challenge. Survivors complain about strong killers, but when you play a match and no one gets hooked, its boring as hell. I feel like I wasted 10 minutes holding a button on a gen
He's not asking for homogenization, he's asking for variety in play. The issue with clown and doc is that you have one option that neither of you have much input in. Either you drop the pallette now and live, or you don't and get hit. That's only interactive because pallettes don't automatically drop themselves against those killers, but you don't really have a choice in the matter so it might as well be. Playing as clown and doc in those situations isn't fun because you can't do anything about it, and playing as the survivor isn't fun because you can't do anything about it. Risk reward and interactivity between parties is about as far as homogenization I can think of.
I think what's truly boring is being able to use the same set of skills to beat every killer, the variety that spirit, clown, pyramid head, and deathslinger bring make survivor fun to me.
I feel like the argument of "survivors don't like playing vs killers that don't have skillful outplay" becomes less valid when every survivor can just press e to outplay, or can take a bad unhook because bt covers your mistake, or can just jump in a locker and force you to eat ds, etc etc. While the killers outlined definitely have issues, the killer meta is always evolving and changing with nerfs, buffs, and reworks, but the survivor meta has been the same stale ten perks for the last two years and I wish something would be done about it.
@@oxydolar80 I've seen so many DH users. Are they good? Usually not, but they exist. At high level play where players can time it properly it's basically a "get out of hit free" card.
DS is just such an annoying yet not that good of a perk I really want to see how bhvr can incentivize people to avoid tunneling by adding base kit punishment for going after unhooked ppl indtead of the reacuer
this is the feeling i get as killer when i get a team that purely camps every single pallet. if your a killer that doesnt snowball a ton or has an easy way to deal with pallets, you lose. sure, all the survivors's resources get used up, but who needs resources when the game is already over.
Yes o my God I hate survivors that camp pallets it takes all skill away from the whole looping side of the game and turns it into, survivor drops pallet, you kick pallet till there are no pallets left on the map but not only is it extremely boring for killers survivors who camp pallets are also fucking over their team by creating these big deadzones where there is just nothing
JR Panday I don’t think that is as much of an issue, it’s when a whole team does it when it gets troublesome. Because as long as the 3 not being chased are doing gens, by the time the whole map is a deadzone it’s too late, the gens are already done. Doesn’t apply as much to nurse or billy, but killers like pig (my main) really rely on survivors playing pallets to get hits.
Finding something boring is subjective so I cant say youre wrong about finding some killers boring personally...HOWEVER I find your logic very flawed, when it comes to Deathslinger at least. Maybe im biased because I love playing him but one of the reasons I like him to begin with is he forces players out of the autopilot loop tech that the so called "exciting" killers are forced to endure and makes both parties think of loops differently. You say it throws all the player experience out the window? Good. If this game is going to continue they have to make killers that keep survivors on their toes and give EVERYONE new ways of mindgaming and interacting with eachother.
But there’s a lack of counterplay/mindgames you can do in a large number of situations. You didn’t go down because you made a mistake or the killer did something particularly well. You often go down solely because the guy picked deathslinger and there was nothing you could do. I understand your logic with the exciting killers, but there has to be some balance to it. Deathslinger doesn’t have that.
Having to learn new counterplays against new killers isn’t the issue though - I find killers with unique counterplays (like Billy) actually really fun to play against. The real issue is the fact that there *is* no (or very little) counterplay in the first place for Deathslinger. That’s why he’s so unfun to play against. You’re often forced into situations where no matter whether you have 50 hours or 5,000 hours of experience in the game, you’re still almost certainly going to get hit. You end up having to rely on the killer messing up themselves rather than outplaying the killer yourself.
I think the devs should add a delay to deathslinger’s aim for maybe 1-2 seconds. They should keep the animation, just slow it, and have deathslinger whistle so only people in his terror radius (the survivor being chased) can hear it so it acts as a warning before the mind games start. Then getting out of aim should be much faster than aiming at first but there still needs to be a delay
Right his whole first point about them not using their skill completely negates anything the player can do. You just shift your skills to evasion and stealth instead of looping and running. Saying its boring because I can't do my one thing is so childish.
I'm going to go out on a limb here, but do y'all consider why people play these so called 'boring killer's'? Or are killer's just bots that are responsible for survivor's fun? I hate to be that guy, but I feel l that people calling killer's boring is just a way of saying "I hate that I can't loop, or have to use different tactics against certain killer" I play survivor, but I don't hold killer's accountable for my fun and I love going against killer's that actually make me use my brain
I feel the same as a survivor main. I didn’t finish the whole video but he keeps talking about not being able to use skill and stuff about just guessing and being lucky against death slinger and spirit but the thing is those guesses are educated guesses based off of experience. I juke death slingers and spirits a lot because a majority of them play the same so you can tell what they are doing. Not only that but even when you 360 another killer or even dead harding that is technically a guess too because you’re guessing that they are going to swing instead of continuing to run
Survivors are too used to get away with doing the fun stuff like running looping and 360. When a killer comes that denies that it is "not fun". Well, now they know how fun it is to be new at killer. Play what you like to play if they don't like it too bad, there is no pleasing survivors anyway so play like you want.
But the issue here is, survivors doing loops is boring, there's no fun in loops its a purely transactional experience, even the mind games are standardized down to a fault. The most fun killers are the ones who can secure kills without looping cause of this. Making killers less boring for survivors make them more boring for killers cause loops as an idea are boring. This game is fundamentally flawed and fixing the backbone issues at this point is impossible. Balancing for skill across an asymmetrical game has never worked, if the game is responsive so its decided by survivor skill then its fundamentally frustrating for the killers, if the game is responsive to killer skills its fundamentally frustrating for the survivors. This is a bad game, its always been a bad game, its a fun game for some people maybe, but its a bad game at its core. You cant fix this.
That's why well designed killers have powers that interact with looping without completely ignoring it. Billy can chainsaw sprint and curve around corners to catch out survivors. Huntress is slow, but can punish predictable movement/pallet drops/window vaults. Demo's shred works similarly. Myers interacts with line of sight instead of avoiding hits which gives a new dimension to avoiding him. If you think looping is standardized just watch someone like Otzdarva play killer. Some stuff like killer's shack doesn't have much to explore anymore, but there is a ton of room to be creative in most loops that a lot of killers never explore. Dbd can be an amazing game, it's just that so often it's ruined by all the crappy design that still exists in the game.
@@jibrailhattar190 Imagine thinking that your subjective opinion on something is an objective fact. I also am bored to tears by looping being such a massive part of every match, especially when survivors have setups like god bus or cow shed.
@@squidwardonachair1089 I would rather play with bots, cause at least they wouldn't bitch and whine or act like entitled shits when they 4 man SWF bully someone 10 ranks below them
@@ThndrMge Some people just want to dick around and play with their friends. 4 man SWF and SWF in general doesn't equal a sweaty team ganging up on the killer. That's not to mention you don't really have a concrete way to know if they're SWF unless their friends' list is public. I'm a solo survivor main and mettle of man is in my every build. 9/10 matches I get accused of being SWF because I play altruistic and take hits for my team. I play killer here and there and I've went against SWF. Contrary to common believe they're not actually evil. They're just trying to have fun, like me and everyone else who plays dbd.
I don’t think these complaints are valid. (With the exception of spirit, she should be nerfed) Survivors who actually think playing against a death slinger, or clown, or doctor is unfun should really stop and consider the other side. How fun do you think it is to go against a team with 16 meta perks, 4 items, and coms? How fun is it to run endlessly around the map, constantly breaking pallets and seeming like you get no closer to hitting them? The same people that complain about unfun killers are the same ones that believe that dead hard and decisive strike are balanced. A good survivor with dead hard is basically untouchable if they are anywhere close to even a filler pallet or loop. And they’re the same ones that will taunt the killer and jump in a locker forcing them to either eat the DS or leave them alone for 60 seconds. From the killers perspective, flashlights can be considered boring to play against too. You skillfully down somebody, and If they aren’t in a position where you’re directly facing a wall, you have 2 options. Chase the guy with the flashlight away and have the downed person get healed, or pick them up and be blinded from 3 different angles. There is quite literally, no in between with good survivors. It’s just like the nurse situation, or the deathslinger situation. If they don’t get the blind, it’s because they messed up the timing, not because of anything skillful you can do to avoid it. In my opinion, saying certain killers aren’t fun or boring is a negative mindset, as both sides have their equal share of bullshit that they can pull off, with no counterplay.
I think the main issue with DBD, is that there is only one mode. Could you imagine other survival modes that focus on some different escape mechanism that isn't gens and pallet looping? Devs could look into other survival games that would benefit certain killers skills more than what the current mode is. Also, I think a practice area would be great too (especially with the bigger ones that take time to learn building areas). So much energy is put into killer and survivor nerfs/buffs, when I think the game play itself could use some new mode that would really refresh things to learn new skills and possibly test old ones.
Agree 120% with Scott. His thoughts are almost the same as mine. I hope for a better more interactive "battle" between the killer and surv. Just like billy matches. Pretty much everything Scott said is dead-on when it comes to making great match experiences
completely disagree with his opinion. When survivors say that the killer is boring, they're basically saying that they can't 5 gen chase a killer, nor 1vs1 the killer for entire game. I'd argue that it is boring for killer to have long chases on imbalanced looping structures where the killer lacks any agency in winning the loops. Its like pre determined loss vs SWF with optimal gen pressure when you can't even down people in 1 player in 1vs4 game.
I feel like Freddy is a good example of a killer that survivors call boring unfairly. Their argument tends to boil down to "If the Freddy spams snares as he chases me round a loop there's nothing I can do." What doesn't seem to occur to them is that they can just run to a different tile that he doesn't have snared up. He can only have so many, and his old ones go away as he places new ones. The key to beating Freddy is to know when a loop has become unsafe, and I think that introduces a nice risk-reward dynamic to his chases.
Now that I think about it, a lot of the things that make a fun killer fun are the same things that make a good horror movie good. If it feels like an actual dangerous battle of wits between the two sides then generally it's an engaging experience that you want to come back to/watch again. A horror movie wouldn't be good if it was just "oh the murderer has a gun and the cast are in a field with no guns so the murderer just fucking shoots them and that's it," or "oh the killer's weakness is salt so literally just pour salt all over the floor of your house and the killer doesn't do anything about it"
This video is about 150% wrong. Killers have way more to go against than survivors. 4 perks vs 16. 2 addons vs 4 items with 8 addons. Not including the chests. 1 vs 4. Killer makes tiniest mistake they lose. Survivor gets huge distance or makes it to another loop that waste killers time. Killer has to waste time to break doors otherwise deal with infinites. Meanwhile, survivor makes mistake it’s okay. Exhaust perks like dead hard are the “undo mistake” buttons. Items like keys have almost no counter play unless every killer takes bubba perk. DS is stupid strong and detracts from killer potential pip just for using it. Iron will is best survivor perk in game. Covers even footsteps somehow. RU-vid author says he enjoys going against bottom tier killers like wraith and demo. Of course he does. But complains about killers that take skill? Deathslinger has ton of counter play to power. Missing a shot hurts him a lot. Can body block reel. Can’t pull through pallets. Etc. Spirit hard countered by one of the most mainstream perks for survivors. This video is so biased and wrong it’s annoying that this person gets tons of views to put out bad information that people will hear and think it’s correct
Yes but the killer vs survivor community is 20% vs 80% so its perfectly fine for all the decent killers to get gunned down and for us to only get below average ones
@@lesdodoclips3915 that doesn't even make sense. because what i'm seeing on video has nothing to do with what side i play. (and i play both btw. the only opinions that hold any type of merit are people that equally play both). either way his video is very survivor side driven. like he plays killer. then switched to survivor and is having a tough time winning. because his complaints are the same as most survivor complaints i hear. it's a competitive game. the losing side rarely has fun in that environment. so all i'm hearing is him whining about losing
@@mylife1221 it's pretty much a well known fact that survivor mains complain about pretty much everything. and since they make up a large population of the game then of course it's gonna be multiple people. but that doesn't mean they are right. the term "entitled survivor" comes from somewhere.
Playing against the same two or three meta perk combos as killer is boring too but this community has a tendency to only care about fun relative to the survivor side. I'm so glad you mentioned that it goes both ways in this video. It was a brief segment and you stated it would require a lot more detail to explain but I think that is very important for a lot of players to realize as well. This game has like this cycle of "I played against this and it wasn't fun so I'm bringing this, this, and that next game" that hurts the fun factor on both sides imo.
Although i agree with what scott says. I disagree with playing against deathslinger. For being 110% killer his power isn't even that great. Even if he lands his shot its not guaranteed the down.If the survivor just puts down the pallet the deathslinger has to destroy it and give up on chasing the survivor or he just ends up wasting time chasing, which aint great for a 110% kiler. I definitely agree with scotts other points tho.
Yea I agree too deathslinger isn’t much of a problem compare to spirit since he is slow for a reason balance reasons but the problem imo is his heart beat with M&A he can basically sneak up on survivor which I dislike
All this makes me remember the time when there were only 3 killers in the game. Adding nurse was a huge thing back then. Now i'm not even hyped for new killers anymore. They haven't added a decent killer for both sides in so long.
i think onis pretty decent on both sides (shame theres like barely any oni mains on console, but i understand why, its similar with billy) but still, half a year of killers that just havent really reached nurse levels of hype kinda sucks.
@@haowig Back when nurse had 3 blinks and everyone was still bad at the game it was actually fun to play against a nurse. It's crazy how much they had to nerf after players became better at the game. It's just too bad that the devs themselves don't get better at understanding it themselves. It almost feels unprofessional at this point. The current state of this game with all these boring new additions and server issues is so bad it's a miracle that it's still alive.
I feel going against a good nurse is completely fine. The skill gap for her is immensely high and that nurse is genuinely rewarded for the fact that the person put so much time into the killer.
I understand it can be frustrating to vs but you have to understand how much time the player put into the killer. She’s not a spirit where you could get good in a few games, nurse can take a couple hundred.
The real problem is the lack of options for engagement as a killer, most killers can be looped for a long time by 1 person if they know how to run them, and as the killer you pretty much are just there until you either get a hit or get bored and run go find something else to do. Looping is rather boring as it boils down to running in a circle, no matter how you try to spin it or how fancy you want to make it sound, in the end you're running in a circle. However the "boring killers" (or at least the ones Scott finds boring) are coincidentally the ones who are designed for countering loops, such as Spirits phasing being silent while in her TR, Pyramid Head's and Deathslinger's Ranged abilities, Nurse's Bilnks, and Clown's bottles are designed like that for the reason of going against the looping playstyle. If all you do is loop without doing anything else then obviously you're going to find anti-loopers boring. -------------- One thing I disagree with Scott on is how killers and survivors "interact" or more specifically how Scott views "interactions" and "engaging killers", from what I gather he thinks when a survivor is in a chase with a killer they're interacting. How I see it is a survivor in a chase is trying to prevent themselves from being interacted with by the killer. Ironic given how the emblem system works, but lets throw that piece of crap aside and ignore it for now. To clarify I believe interacting is to "perform an action that effects something/someone directly or indirectly, to cause a change of some kind", in the simplest example a killer hitting a survivor is the killer interacting with the survivor and injuring them, while a survivor to killer interaction would be a survivor stunning the killer with a pallet or throwing a pallet to block the killer impeding their progress towards the survivor or as mentioned stunning them. When it comes to engaging killers I am of the opinion that an engaging killer is a killer that forces you to have to focus on what the killer is doing, to this I believe the range killers as well as the Trap setting killers take the crowns as the most engaging as you need to be constantly aware of where they placed their traps or if they are readying a ranged attack. To this end I kinda think this is where the problems begin to show the most, like I said above there's more than one way to engage a killer as a survivor, but as a killer there's really only one way to engage a survivor. That lack of diverse engagement is what I think brings about this creations of these "boring killers" since the only way to go against survivors is the same way unless they are forced to change how play, based on the kit available for the killer during the match. -------------------------- Now I don't think Scott wants every killer to play the same way, however lets say for a moment that every killer had to go through loops, and had to stop at pallets, and couldn't go through walls with some teleport ability, nor have a means to drag a survivor away from a loop with a range attack. In that state killers would have little difference than survivors in being just "skins" with a small gimmick, with no real reason to play any specific killer since they'd all be the same. Perhaps a little extreme but the point remains, if every killer played the same and never changed how a survivor plays the game, then they would become boring and repetitive as everyone would just play the game the same way in each and every match.
There’s a simple fix to face camping, tunneling not so much. When the killer is within 16 meters from the hook, the survivors hook timer slows down considerably
I don't know why people have so many issues with spirit. In the video talking about hillbilly you give an example of the hillbilly predicting where you were going to go and then if you get chainsawed you aren't upset because he made the right prediction. That is essentially spirits entire kit. If they want to mindgame and just stand still and you react, they made a good prediction. If they do that and you just run away or just stand there wasting their time, they made a bad prediction and were punished for it.
@@NothingHere-dz2tm If he is talking making predictions around a gym and having to make the prediction that involves probably not being able to see him and him hiding his light
I know I commenting twice here but I have something to add. Huntress. Huntress is actually one of the worst culprits of a 50,50 chance. I'm referring to the she's about to be within m1 range but if you drop the pallet she hatchets you. That the definition of a 50,50 but I don't see much complaining about her other than hit boxes. Thoughts?
If she's about to be in M1 range you've already screwed up. Yes, in that situation it comes down to a 50/50 but you have the choice to even get in that situation in the first place
More often than not she will be throwing hatches from some sort of distance which generally requires more skill than guesswork to dodge. And if the survivor remembers how the huntress played pallets previously in the game and the survivor then plays around it, then that does take some skill
@@vi5e0gam3r5 looping a huntress goes like this. Run around once. On the next loop she will almost be in m1 range. So you have 2 choices. Drop the pallet after one loop like clown or freddy and run. Or loop again and take the 50,50. If you win the 50,50 you get another loop, if you lose it you get hit.
Huntress at a pallet isn't that bad at all, imo. It more comes down to who you're playing against. You have to predict they're gonna run through the pallet or wind a hatchet. You make a bad choice, she makes a good choice, you get hit for it. If you see her not slow down you can even "vacuum" back to a pallet and stun her with it if you have a decent reaction time. And if you run through the pallet and she winds up a hatchet and respects it, you get another 1, maybe even 2 loops of that pallet because you made a good read. I'm not arguing it's not a 50/50, because it is, but it's not a bad 50/50 and the more you play against Huntress, the more confident you'll be reading Huntress players. I think she's the perfect design for how an ability should work in DbD.
Very well made video Scott!!! Being fun for both sides is what I think will help this grow and maybe even the community becoming a little less toxic if that’s possible. Trying your absolute hardest and knowing you can’t do shit is super unrewarding. Could make people possibly leave the game depending on how the feel and I’m sure some already have.
Seeing someone like you Scott, who plays mostly killer in your videos, understanding this is such a relief and good to see. I wasn't around for old legion, I started May 2019 just before Ghostface came out, but holy hell, Spirit especially is such a bore. Everything you say in this video speaks to exactly us survivor main's gripes. It still baffles me how more people aren't calling for bhvr to at least *look* at her kit to see if they could make a change to make less guesswork happen. I'm not upset if a spirit runs a loop right or predicts my movements and downs me. It's when I'm injured at a pallet, she stands still and I go "Well fuck guess I'll vault cuz she might be coming around" I vault and then I just get grabbed. Exactly what you said. It's pure luck. It's pure guesswork. And it's not fun. I've even played a few games as her, and the fact that I can just stand in front of a pallet and a survivor can vault into me because they're scared I'm coming around is ridiculous to me. Killer mains don't seem to understand that, yes, it might be fun for them, but at it's core, killers like Deathslinger and Spirit come down to pure chance and guesswork, and it's not fun for either side (fun for killers sometimes).
As a survivor main I feel like nobody listens or cares about my opinions and the killer mains group us all as entities or want constant nerfs for killer when what I really want is to just have fun playing the game
At least with nurse she takes so much skill that it is respectable. Other killers don't really do that, or at least as much. Personally I think the hair makes u look cute asf
I agree with everything said aside from Deathslinger, during loops you are right (kinda), but while in the open that's kinda your fault, most killers can fuck you in dead zones, I think you made good points but that one in particular was stupid, also Deathslinger itself is funny, I understand not everyone will like the playstyle but at this moment he's such in a shitty position to actually be blamed on, I still do beat him like you said and it's not "skill" breaking like Spirit, this was more of a "If you can't loop a killer without stress the game is boring", or at least that's how you made it look with your phrasing... I believe overall Deathslinger is as fair as an Huntress is pretty much, you literally have to play as if you were playing against Huntress minus the "Huntress is loud so you can also stealth it" part since Slinger is stealthy and I'd say that's the only thing that make him more "original" than she is, I hope you understand what I was trying to say, after all it's just my opinion like your opinion in this video... I don't think overall Deasthlinger (and even Executioner in a way) are "avoiding skill of survivors" even because running in circles is as skilled as doing a generator or hitting a survivor as a killer, it doesn't require too much aside from understanding how the game works, I think these killers actually INCREASE the skill level, it makes the survivor learn MORE during a loop, like you have to constantly look behind, you have to constantly keep some objects in between and you should always try to get a good look around you to spot the next position for the next good looping zone, I believe that survivors do complain against Spirit for her BS and that's true, but I'm talking about slinger, for him that's just a "nah I don't want to use more than what I learned" against this killer, and it doesn't help that he's not even that good, I think it's funny to play against but what do I know since I main one of the most obnoxious killers in game apparently (The Doctor)... This whole conversation could also be used for any other killer in a way like Trapper, there's no skill level if the trap is in front of you or in every loop and that would be boring too but it's not because people know he had to waste time, in a way people do know that even if Deathslinger shots are almost instant, they are very precise, less threatening than an huntress hatchet and way easier to deal with if there are obstacles between you and him or if you make the killer waste time, I have played with plenty of Slingers at rank 1 (not using this as an excuse to say that I'm the best player even because I know many use the "rank 1" excuse a lot to justify what they are saying) but I do believe overall that Slinger has counterplays and so does PH in a way and they are not as "boring" as spirit but just a way to complain because most survivors refuse to use more tactics than just looping, anyway sorry for my bad english I tried my best, love ya!
I am late to DBD and just started playing 1 week ago. I love your content. I've been playing both sides to get a better sense of the game and it's been a blast. Although, it has been the most frustrating playing killer because regardless of how I play there are always complaints about something. I'm at rank 14 and because of the time of day I play I get paired with rank 3-8 survivors frequently. The higher the persons rank seems to be the more complaints I get. Also, god forbid I actually get a kill on someone running Decisive Strike and Unbreakable, it has meant instant flaming each time.
I definitely agree that the higher up the ranks you go, the more complaints you come across. To be honest, as long as you don’t hard camp or tunnel etc, survivors have no right to complain, so just ignore them and move on in my opinion. Good luck btw!
The way you talk about DBD, you could be an amazing fighting game player. Hating educated guesses, reading the opponent, optionselecting etc you seem to be passionate about. Can only recommend trying some if you havent already.
Honestly this really hits the nail on the head. It's the killers with tones of "free value" that are boring. Like the Spirit who will ALWAYS get hits in, or the Doctor who will ALWAYS shock you and begin to snowball, or the Deathslinger who (99/100 times) will ALWAYS get a hit in if he lands a shot. Even a Killer like Ghostface who gets free approaches with his power that often equal a free hit or the clown with countering looping with bottles for easy hits. These killers are boring to play against because they have a mechanic that doesn't punish Survivors but instead just eliminates options. Spirit - Sprinting away or Hiding nearby and no way to see a threat coming Deathslinger/Pyramid-head - Dropping pallets for chase ending/extending and also windows Doctor - Disabling all actions Ghostface - No terror radius and thus no information Clown - Disables looping Nurse - Disabling pallets or windows These Killers all find their niche in eliminating an option of the Survivors by simple virtue of existing. There is no counter play to them, so there is an overwhelming sense of inevitability. Every time I play against one of these Killers, I can guess with almost 100% accuracy how many Survivors will make it out alive ranging from 4 (or 3 for a camping) Clown to 1-2 depending on how good the Doctor/Deathslinger is or how favorable the map is. And that's no fun. It makes it feel like you're just going through the motions. The spirit in particular really just feels like if you are the first to get targeted you may as well just hide in a locker and die on hook to just get into a faster game. Killers that remove the option for counter play aren't fun because they just limit the game. Sure sometimes they limit it in such a way they can win no problem, but like he said their are bad Killers that feel dull and drawn out as well. With all that said it's hard to really say what could be done to fix these Killers. Each of them have an issue that stems from their core ability so it's hard to determine what can be changed without destroying the Killer or turning them into a carbon copy of another (like if you were to start adding cues to Spirit's Phasing, but that just makes her a Wraith with a twist). I like this game, but it feels like it's running into the issue many "long term" multiplayer (ones that just keep getting updates instead of a full new launch) games have in which they're just adding new content to keep *just* enough people *just* enough interested for *just* enough time to sell the next new thing. And in the meantime just slapping band-aid after band-aid on the core problems.
I think what the issue is, and what you were hinting at, is risk vs reward. Billy is a high risk vs high reward. And that makes it fun. Sure, you can chase normally. Or you can throw up the chainsaw and yeet. You yeet at the wrong time, juked. You can mind game with it. The sound for survivors so you can mind game them. Why is face camping not fun? Low risk... the same reason gambling is fun. People don't actually like winning. They like the thrill of not knowing if they are going to win...
I hugely disagree with the critisism towards deathslinger. I don't even own the guy, so it's not like I am biased because I am maining him or anything. 110% killer getting hard cucked solely by pallet slamming after injured while your skill is determined by your escape plan, using obstacles for cover, using exhaust perks to gain distance for next pallet. Getting into the head of deadslinger when he is going to shoot and this zoning out thing you mentions sounds bit redicilious when you factor how cluttered most of the maps are with line of sight blockers that insures he has to fire before them. Not to even mention how easy it's for teams or duo's to block for their mates to run down the clock. Have your opinion mate, but I find deathslinger the complete opposite of boring to go against. Breath of fresh air to monotous loop till pallet drop m1 stuff.
My main issue is when the survivors win because the killer messed up. The nurse and spirit are my main issues with this game. Its no fun when i lose and its no fun when i win because it wasnt my skill it was their lack of it.
I know this is an old video but I actually really like going against death slinger with the new DH, it makes it a game where if he's going to catch me soon I need to have him basic attack me in a chase both for the first injure and for the next would-be-hit to use DH. Basically the fun stems around using DH vs an anti DH killer.
I personally love how deathslinger harpoons literally clip through fucking trees and hit me. Also nobody likes being looped around a pallet as a killer, so survivor complaints are basically "I want to be boring, its so boring that i cant be boring wtf man" What I am hearing is basically "survivors just want to loop killers for 5 gens otherwise its boring".
Killers I love to go against Billy Boy, Bubba, Piggy, Oni, Michael, Huntress (when she doesn't have high ping), Doctor, and some more. I love to have a good chase and when I play killer to do some funky fun stuff and get a down. Testing my skill as a survivor and killer with the person I'm against is really fun. But when it comes to Spirit, Deathslinger, or slow build Legion, Freddy. Then the game A) Becomes a left-clicking simulator B) I have to guess and hope which doesn't involve that much skill and is pretty random C) I feel like I have no impact whatsoever in the game because of A or people dying super fast because of B. Idk. perhaps adding some sound to where the Spirit is could be fun. I just wanna have fun and some good interactions in this game no left-click simulation and no ultra gambling.
Thank you for saying all of these things Scott i believe it was about time someone started talking about it, i have many, many hours in dead by daylight (Both survivor and killer though i have more on survivor) and always have had these exact opinions on the matter but i have never once said them anywhere at all due to the fear of just being massively spammed back with your typical "Why would you want killers to be *nerfed* they're already weak you must just be a filthy survivor main" and out of fear of being shunned by the community i stay quiet, i dont want anybody to be nerfed i just want this game to be more fun and balanced for BOTH sides. Currently i feel as if the community (Mind not everyone there a tons of cool people that are amazing) doesn't really for the most part care about the balance of the game, from what i have seen it is usually killers wanting their role to be as OP as it can be so that they can win easy (Notice how every single streamer, or youtuber you may watch even when facing "sweaty" survivors or swf if they are good tend to win their matches because they are good, isn't that how it should be? You played better so you win???) or survivors wanting heavy nerfs on a killer or dismissing valid criticism as "Get gud scrub" (Once again notice how good survivors can usually run killers for quite some time as it should be, they played and mindgamed right so they get rewarded with wasting the killers time)
My biggest concern is, i already see billys way to rare and i love playin against good billys and thats my biggest issue about his nerf! You see way more Spirits or Freddys which are most boring to go against... Well, good we will see even more of them in the future after Billy nerf i guess yaaaayy lol
The reason for this are 4 man swfs who are pushing the gens in 4 mins. Seeing only 3-4 different killers in red ranks is a bit of a Gen pressure/ time issue. When ruin was good, the was a larger variety of killers. If you don't want to lose every game as killer you're kinda pushed into the killer meta at certain ranks
Flegmaniac billy is still insanely strong, he was good for not only 1v1 but 1v4 and still can be. also dont pin all the blame on SWFs. some people just like spirit or freddys gameplay and abilities , they might not feel forced to play these people because theyre optimal. others might feel like they have to play these killers. everyones different. i am happy theyre adding an early game slowdown though, its needed.
I definitely get what you're saying, and I agree with this point; certain killers make what you learn about the game irrelevant. But there's a skill you can still utilize that's more universal in gaming. It's mindgaming and there's a difference between guessing and mindgaming that I want to explain. Mindgaming is actively thinking about the next move your opponent is making and actively countering that with your own move. (EX: "Hmm, if I were him, I think I'd go this way to avoid me; it's the best choice.") Guessing is a passive decision in which you make a choice based on no prior knowledge of anything. (EX:"I'll just go around this way.") If there wasn't a distinction between the 2 then every game would be 50/50 for you which they're definitely not. You put a lot of hours in the game so you can win more often than you lose. Spirit definitely has an advantage because of what she can do while phasing so it definitely makes it harder to mindgame her but not impossible. I also think that survivors are stronger than killers, perks and add-ons so that's where my opinion is coming from. (Aside from things like Iri Huntress, the game is definitely to her advantage if the map is balanced for both sides.)
I think killers that forces u to play a certain way are more creative bc it’s like different side objectives to do within the game other than completing gens and leaving... in all honesty what killer what’s to be looped to death or gen rushed? Now that’s boring. Ik theirs hex perks (which are a joke bc they get cleansed in 10 secs) and meta perks but then it’s like who wants to recycle the same perks? Don’t get me started on a optimal SWF group, literally the most unfun experience. They can literally counter every stealth killer in each possible way, if your a stealth killer, “Watch out he’s heading toward your position”, if your using blindness status effect perks , “hey pick me up, I’m over here”, like that’s whack.
I can understand this; but as someone that mainly plays killer.. I get plenty of "boring" games where the survivors NEVER interact with me. Literally. Just hide and use Urban all the time. That's not fun. At all.😥 I think people like that need to depip or at the least not rank up. It's not fair that they get a rank up for simply cowering out when half the game is chases.🙌 Kinda glad my Xbox died; that game had been killing the fun/happiness in my heart and soul the past 4 months dealing with "red ranks" that do this almost every game I go into.😑 So yeah, how they can't use what they've learned - neither can I when you wimp out and either never gen rush and never get into a chase - or abuse a really good loop to waste my time; even when I know to leave them and go to someone else... They have one person each on a gen. So 3 are done together and the 4th won't be far behind. 🤷🏻♂️ So camping and tunneling I don't really enjoy; but when it came down to it in most games.. I had to. I'm sick of depipping while they get a free rank. 🤦🏻♂️
Know what's funny? I never really play any of the killers that are considered "boring". Except Pyramid Head, he's just too fun even when I lose; because I know the survivors are having a blast-- besides the hide and seek ones.
I would love to loop the survivor normally, but what about swfs gen rushing when u loop a single survivor for a bit. It would be great if they added something to reduce gen speed.
That’s you committing to a chase for too long. If you’re following 1 guy for more than 30 sec with no hit or good pallet destroyed while 3 healthy players are working on gens, what do you think is going to happen?
The skill of dbd is being able to read the match on both sides Knowing as a survivor when to be bold and confident or when to play careful and sneaky The skill of survival is not just looping I mean yeah it's fun and does help alot but the strongest teams I have faced are the ones that are smart Not the flashlight clickers alot of time they all land up being slugs But being survivor learn to save when you can and not farm Aka if a killer is camping go do gens or let someone with borrowed save A killer who hard camps only hurts thierself as same as a survivor that bum rushes a killer camping your only hurting the team Skill is different in everyone's eyes in this game but to me it's overall "survival" Be the guy who distracts killer of your confident Be the guy who saves if your build supports it Be the gen jocky if your team is struggling to do so
I honestly think a slightly buffed Pig would be great to go against. Her dash just needs to come out a little bit earlier so the survivor can't just run away, and then it becomes essentially a fast-paced mindgame.
People who say any killer is boring is really actually saying, "I cant loop you or play well against (insert killer here)..boring".- Entitled survivor mains
2020 Scott: This trend of killers where there’s one correct thing to do is boring BHVR in 2023: So we have this new killer called the Knight, and sometimes there is 0 correct things to do, and you die. Yay!
Interesting topic. A big issue though is that some of these survivors will blame anything to protect their ego. I had a game as a Trapper where I got a 4K and the survivor said "nice ping". As much as there are survivors that want genuine balance and challenge, there's still going to be plenty that won't be happy unless they escape every match or bully the killer for montages.
I think the perfect example of both survivor and killer having perfect balance is Ghostface. The idea revolves around the killer trying to be in the survivor's shoes and outplay their moves with options of stalking, crouching, and stealth with counter play while the survivors have to think outside the box and juke him with unpredictable moves and play differently with many options where there skills are tested equally. I believe this is the most balanced killer that'll probably ever be released. Maybe Micheal Myers and Pyramid Head next to that. Tell me whatcha guys think the most balanced killer is.
Generally this is true but at the same time you have a lot of variance in opinion. The worst thing BHVR can do is make killers that are very good at camping or just don't chase. Hag, Leatherface, The Twins. Although bad thing they do is they make killers that ignore obstacles. Nurse, Legion in feral frenzy, Spirit, and plague depending on the cover. Survivors just want some honest chases and if a killer has a killer power that aids them in chase that's fine as long as it's somehow fair and counterplayable in a meaningful way. Stealth killers are fine right now except on indoor maps but they are are a little bit too weak besides slinger. I hate New Bubba because if you are not near a pallet or a window they can Rev their chainsaw from 10 meters away drop all their stacks and still insta down you with very little skill involved. Even if you have that huge gap on them when they start the chainsaw it's just stupid. Also another big problem is when a Killer is braindead to play but super strong. It's just not good for the game. Freddy and Spirit really ruin the game when they are picked except against the biggest sweat squads. Solo squads are so terrible most of the time any good spirit can go on multidigit win streaks. Freddy can do the same but a little less effectively than spirit. I'm fine with killers as strong as oni existing but it really allows them to smash any players except the strongest squads if the killer is good. I get why killers want to play scummy too when ds and unbreakable are constantly a threat and used. I play both a moderate amount. I like the mid to weaker killers because they are more skillful to win. You can't just absolutely dumpster people for free unless they're stupid which does happen quite a lot to be honest.
@@vanillabutternut3142 Yep, because running from the Killer isn't a skill at all of anything. Just because you're Killer biased when anytime you play Survivor, you play P3 Blendette who sucks at loops, doesn't mean everyone plays the same. People can main whoever they want. No one is saying they're good at anything, you just think every Survivor is the spawn of Satan because you got teabagged one game.
@@VFG204 eh wrong, you entitled survivor think running to a pallet and pressing m1 is a skill 😂 wow congrats on dropping pallet, you’re such a good player. Lmao, like I said, you guys shouldn’t have opinions, survivors is a baby walk in the park and y’all act like you’re doing something. Survivor is for the weak how easy it is 😂 weak ass player you don’t even play half the game bum. Try killer and then talk. You’re just another entitled survivor main. Lmaooo.
I feel like spine chill is boring for a killer because a lot of time the survivor knows I’m there as wraith or ghost face before I know they’re there and I feel like I shouldn’t have to moonwalk just to counter this perk. Another perk is decisive I like the idea for it being an anti tunneling perk but lockers make it too strong because you either take the DS or be locker spammed for the duration of the perk. I feel like when you grab a survivor from a locker you should drop them or something
In my case or complaint about boring killers, it's usually people that use certain killers with their best builds and add-ons for a competitive advantage which is kinda cringe to begin with. I don't mind going against a Deathslinger, but it's a Deathslinger with M&A I have an issue with. In case you're going to pull up the survivor main card, I have to say that any game out there is only fun on both sides when it's fair, and when you try to deny looping by playing Deathslinger, or deny hook perks by using Pyramid Head, you're stripping the survivors from what they have to defend themselves and thus ruining the experience for others just to make you feel good about yourself. However, it's already unhealthy to begin with if you look at the opposing side with prejudice and seek to make their lives miserable by using a boring playstyle with a competitive build to make it even more boring. -looking at you space coconut-
Nope. What's boring is survivors running directly from one pallet to the next, one safe loop to the next, while the rest rush gens. The killers he says are fun are the most boring to play for killer: Wraith is useless, Nurse is impossible to control and the head shaking blackout is painful. The ones he says are bad are the few killers fun to play, that actually give the killer half a chance. And I don't care if the very best killers play Wraith/Nurse/Whatever fine, since they can get 4K with Clown and Legion.
Why should the fun of survivors dictate how a killer is made and used? I find playing Spirit and Deathslinger very fun. But obviously survivors find those killers 'boring' and 'unfun', doesn't stop them from gen rushing and using overpower loops and builds to make my experience boring and unfun. Why should the game fit the needs of the survivors all the time?
Lol what? A game is meant to be fun, looping is all survivors have to counter killers? It is the devs responsiblty to make the gun fun for both sides, boring killers fail this
The moment you said gen rushing pretty much gives away the fact that you are a killer main with 300 hours. God loops don’t exist anymore, they simply don’t. What exist on the other hand are maps plagued with unsafe pallets. This game is soooo easy for killer most of the time, it is ridiculous. And yes a game is made for fun, if you play spirit and Deathslinger and don’t give a shit about my fun, I will t-bag, genrush and bully the living shit out of you, because i don’t give a fuck about your fun, either. You are sooo stupid man, I can easily tell you are playing Spirit.
My one thing about this video is that he lists pyramid head as among the problems like slinger and spirit but then says he’s like slinger done right. What’s the truth Scott?
Well said, Skills and Chases are the most fun thing in this game, And here is my fixes to some killers.. (1) Spirit: While she in phase mode she can't detect survivors voices direction. (2) Deathslinger: When he "Un-Aim" without shooting he has a bit slower movment speed and a bit of delay he can't aim again immediately. (3) Freddy: Remove Auto-Sleep from base-kit and make it an addon, Downside of this addon that survivors can wake up at any clock, Also His abilty Snares/Dream Pallets should work like nurses blinks, I mean it has a time after he put his snare it can''t go back immediately to reduse spam. (4) Doctor: Also to reduse shock spam his movement speed a bit slower after shocking, you have to shock at the right place and time, Like old Doctor but still stronger. (5) Hillbilly: Remove PTB changes, And make his addons with same effect dosn't stack.
I enjoy these videos more than the random gameplay format as well. DBD content creation is missing this niche and it's always fun to read and respond to the comments section. That being said I agree 100% with this entire video except that PH is less bullshit than Spirit/DS. Ol' Triangle Face is 115 speed so he automatically has a leg up on the other 2, and even if he goes down to 110 when he puts his sword in the ground he has less than a second delay before he can use his power. So he essentially doesn't even need to go into Trench Mode (what I call Rites of Judgement) to zone you because he can Bloodlust the shit out of you until you are forced into an action that would give him a hit. The fix is super simple. He needs to be adjusted so the player is forced to be in Trench Mode for at least a second to use the special like Demo has to hold his power before he can yeet. That way you can actually react properly. Hell, as compensation they could make the power AOE wider or whatever, there just needs to be more ability to actually outplay what he can do.
If spirit moved the grass or had some kind of translucent footprints when she was phasing, so you can roughly guess where she is in that moment, she would be much better to go against. It wouldn’t be too much of a nerf and less 50 50 which is always a plus
I also really like these videos you do, I think it's really healthy for the game to talk about this stuff so everyone can talk about and discuss the potential problems with the game even if the game devs wont do anything about it anyway. At least its a whole hell of a lot better than just whining and complaining and calling everyone bad.
the only killer that I actually dislike going against (and this is as a killer main, 70/30 split) is Freddy. Hes the only killer I find "boring" but a lot of that is because of my teammates unless I'm playing with friends and the fact that some of his addons are insanely strong in slowdown. Hes really just a little too overwhelming in my opinion and I feel he's a little too easy to pick up and play with how strong he is. That's also the main reason I dont play as him as a killer, same reason I dont like to use NOED or decisive strike as a survivor. It just feels cheap and unsatisfying for me personally. Obviously as I get better at playing survivor and get better at looping freddy might seem less annoying but honestly I dont see it with how easy he can throw slow down snares. Like genuinely compare freddy to clown, both have slow downs at loops but freddy can spam his, has no terror radius, and can teleport to Gens lol. but again other than Freddy I think the high tier killers are all fine for the most part. If anything buff the shittier ones please like trapper, wraith, Michael, Demogorgon and honestly pig deserve some slight buffs as well
Boring characters is a very valid opinion. Death slinger is a good newer example of boring because there is very little counter play. Unlike huntress you get no warning if they will use a range attack meaning you can’t duck behind a tree where as huntress would give you time to make a counter play. The only counter play to deathslinger is to swerve in random direction where the deathslinger simply doesn’t shoot and gets a free hit. If you play a pallet correctly he shoots you as you drop it and the chain breaks and he still gets the first hit free. You cannot dodge something if you don’t know what it is. Will they shoot or keep running? Same thing with noed. Do I waste time cleansing totems to counter play this perk that they MIGHT have? A killer alternative to that argument is DS unbreakable. Do I slug because they might have ds? Or do I pick up because they might have unbreakable? Or they have both and you lose no matter what. Same with noed. Waste time cleaning 5 dulls you still lose. It simply takes too long to find 5 totems on maps like Lerys, Hawkins, and swamp.
