Agreed.. Whilst reading a book on linguistics, for fun - as one can do, I came across a phrase that really stuck with me. "Today symbols are worth more than the things they are meant to symbolise." I believe the example given fits perfectly with this video, it referred to the fact that instead of valuing the knowledge gained by an education, a modern student would cheat to attain the symbol of it instead, so the certificate. Quite the problem when everyone is so vain at such an early age but schools enforce this mentality. Everything is a fucking checkbox exercise these days...
@@TheOrganNauts-cp2fv his students are a cross section of the generation that created Instagram - a platform that is driven by the notion of the idea of what you are being more important than you actually being it
@@musicmanson "Much like the generation before them..." indicates that the problem Branford is addressing pre-dates Instagram. The "poser class" isn't anything new and it's not going away anytime soon. Every generation has had its share of posers and folks who want to achieve celebrity status without having to put the work in...it's sad that these folks aren't being weeded out earlier.
I mean yeah, youth is arrogant. But I come back to this clip often for the second part especially. "...We live in this country that seems to be in this massive state of delusion. Where the idea of what you are is more important than you actually being that..." He's fucking nails it. Confidence before competence. Personality over character. Style over substance. It's the keeping up with appearences like some Kardashians do so pathologically well. I worry our culture is turning into this "massive state of delusion" as he says. Where everything in art, and the culture that follows is becoming some Dunning-Kruger effect writ large. And exactly what makes American Idol auditions such despicable car crashes of ego vs aptitude. Adele's fine. But I'm afraid that's just not fucking good enough to bring us back to authenticity, aptitude, and the value of talent through hard work. And decimating music education so much so that musicians have to go to Europe or Japan to be appreciated for their own countries art form, isn't helping. Anyways...
Wow, put very eloquently and YOU nailed the point as well! I now realise why culture based on appearances really rubs me the wrong way: it's empty, shallow, and extremely trend-driven. Not many people think for themselves or act because they think something is right or wrong, they do it because other people percieve it as right or wrong. They're so scared of falling out of the group or being different that they'll hastily consume the newest piece of gossip media and listen to all the garbage music so that they can fit in with the rest. Everything is so fast nowadays too, and so many people are afraid to feel and confront their own selves. All we can do is work hard and hope the next generation will be raised better :)
I left my graduate program for reasons along these lines. It was a complete shit show in almost every way, and almost everyone agreed, but they were willing to "all wink at the same time" to feel better about it and pretend it was actually worth being a part of. I was not and verbalized my thoughts, which were not appreciated and resulted in me being alienated, so I left. I'm not content with mediocrity and being a part of some circle-jerk where a bunch of slaps just sit around telling each other how great they are. I want to actually BE great, and show my greatness through my actions and productions. Sitting around congratulating myself for nothing is not my idea of success. Fuck that program. Good video.
I left my program in 1974 because of the same reasons. I was a fine arts major, and our professors and TAs were giving us projects that could only be labeled ‘bizzy werk’, and were of no propelling value. Trust me, at university level, I didn’t need to draw crumpled butcher paper for 3 hours three times a week for a whole semester. One TA assigned us to make art from a found object for a juried show. The entries were numbered, so the TA would not know who the artist was until after the show. I found an old muffler in the trash, painted it, collage’d it, silver leafed it, but left the rusted out part just visible. It was pretty cool, one of my favorite pieces. I titled it, “You Are Who You Pretend To Be”, and I got a 1st place in my category. When the TA found out it was me, she was completely pissed off. Could hardly look at me , didn’t smile when she had to award me my blue ribbon. I came in second for the whole show over all, and I thought her head was going to explode. Yeah, eff that crap!
He is completely correct. I am a professor myself. I teach animation. I teach animation they way I wish I was taught! When I was a student I had to fend for myself a lot, some of my teachers were great, but they let us know that we were just students in the process of learning. My fellow students and I all knew that we had a lot to learn and we knew that we had to start from the ground up. Students today do not have the drive to do the work needed. They want the easiest and fastest way.
I can't disagree. Being in high school now, I always want to get better at what I'm doing, but my peers around me don't seem to have the same drive. Today in class, my music teacher told us to go watch this clip. Now that I've done it, I can't agree more, and I can't disagree at all. He's absolutely correct.
Oh my gosh!! This is absolutely true! My students (music and non music) ---this is what they say to me! "I want to quit chorus because it's hard and I'm used to being told how good I am and it was easier in my other school"...blah blah blah. Branford--you nailed it! Now, how do we fix it?
I am "millennial" and what he said is spot on. I teach at a state university and I am surprised at how many students just want an easy A without working for it. Usually they do not come to class. When they come to class they are not prepared, and they are usually distracted on their phones. Then when they can't pass the exams (which I purposefully design to be easy), they cry about it. In class discussions it is clear they did not read the material, yet they get their feelings hurt when you ask them to explain their silly comments with facts. As a young instructor with no tenure my hands are tied. It is sad to say, but with this generation you cannot have a meaningful class and expect to be rehired. Most students want the easy way out.
thank you to my teacher ray brown for hearing every wrong note and pointing it out! its so refreshing, and it got us to work harder that we did in any other class
The lessons I have learned from Branford have been some of the most challenging and intimidating of my life, and in the end, he has taught me more about both music and life than any other teacher in my life. Branford speaks the truth, without compromise and it is a rare gift in this day and age. Those who are offended should examine why they react this way. Seems to me that those who are truly confident in their path would disagree without getting angry. Not so with some of these posters!
perfect. it's so true; so FRUSTRATINGLY true from a music teacher's perspective. there is no aggravation like putting together a lesson for a kid who you think is going to really grow into something. You meditate on it and REALLY care about the path you're putting him on, only to have him piss it away and not practice it because it's too hard and not instantly gratifying and it doesn't reaffirm their concept of their "great talents" easily enough. the shit's frustrating. word, branford
Sat at a desk three feet in front of Branford at a workshop, and was illuminated and energized by his insistence on playing better through hard work and practice. The night before, he'd gotten a 5 minute standing O at the Stanford Jazz Festival. He also played ensemble with several tippy-top NY saxophonists I won't name. You couldn't miss he contrast. His huge tone, energy, and fluency on his instrument made the others sound like boys whose voices hadn't changed yet. Tough love, Professor!
THANK YOU! Thank you for saying what I want to say, but can't! I just spent 30 minutes responding to text messages from a student who can't understand why he received an F in voice when he failed to come to 25% of his lessons, only learned ONE song, failed to sing a jury, and didn't turn in the requisit recital credits. I explained to him how he needs to take responsibility... blah, blah, blah. THIS is what I would have liked to say to him!
This has to be one of the best videos ever on education. This is spot on with all my college students who can barely read yet want to be LA studio musicians.
I'm from Germany and I often hear that US citizens have a massive literacy problem yet it isn't reeally addressed much. What kind of courses do you teach?
I agree with this 100% and I'm a student!!! I live in Dallas,TX and it seems like no one in my city even cares about perfecting there craft. And the teachers are the same way. It seems like everyone is just settled in there daily lifestyles and I'm like I can't stand that. Sometimes I feel like I'm all alone on this earth!!! That's why, this summer I'm going to rent a room and practice my butt off untill it's time for me to go back to school. That's what it takes to be a great!! Peace
He's right. No good musician I have ever met or worked with has ever been interested in just being told they are wonderful or that they have learned enough. No matter the age, there is always something new to be learned. There are lot of mediocre folks though who have the mindset Branford is talking about. They know it all, they've done it all and no one will tell them otherwise. I'm lucky in that most of the people I play with are as humble as they are good. And they are very good.
yup. nailed it. i agree 100 percent! after a two decades of living as a full time musician, i was asked to teach at the local college. i had the same experience. thank you for speaking the Truth, in a time of ultimate illusions.
Branford goes over the top here and speaks THE TRUTH about a particular kind of student. I agree with his perception - to a point. But I'd like mention the great number of students (many of whom have posted comments here) that appreciate honest evaluation and expert feedback. They have the necessary humility and openness to benefit from study with Branford and the many dedicated musicians and musician/teachers who have had and continue to enjoy a successful and enjoyable relationship.
As a regular non-music parallel, I am amazed by some of my HS students who have been programmed: "I'm going to go to college and get a big-paying job"!! Except... they HATE READING, HATE studying, have no innate curiosity about much of anything that doesn't yield immediate entertainment or pleasure, have the vocabulary of a housefly (buzzzzz), and CHEAT whenever they possibly can. For some of these pitiful ones (who fail to evolve), LIFE will be their punishment. Their NEED to blame others.
He's right, all one has to do is google how many parents today fail to allow their children to fail. No one grows by only being told how good they are. Many, many people are very talented, but very few of them will ever be great. The greats worked to be great.
Im in a music program but havn decided to become a music major for that simple reason. Most of the majors where I am a student are not that impressive compared to real musicians like Branford and many others, yet, they try to hold themselves up in that respect as if they could even begin to compete with such professionalism. Frankly it pisses me off to see people who slop through great classical pieces and stand proudly as if they have done the world a great service. Thanks Branford!!!
I agree with Branford. I have returned essays to students with comments. Criticisms include bad grammar and sentence structure, incorrect usage of words, improper referencing style, spelling errors, etc. Students will comment that it is all subjective. They don't like getting criticism for their work and want to hear how great their written work is.
That's so true. I went through 0:22 - 0:26 during high school. I was a freshman going to Cardinal Gibbons School and I switched to the trombone. My music teacher was great, except for the fact his knowledge on brass instruments were limited. For about two years in school, I thought I was the shit. Turns out, I sucked. Fortunately, I studied and researched the best trombonists of all time for later years. Now, I'm refining my trombone techniques with a jazz workshop. I'm 21 btw.
You don't have to destroy a student's self esteem to teach them. A good teacher sets the bar high and models a love of learning. There's no room for any ego. No time for it. A good teacher shows a student how much there is to learn. Does Mr Marsalis do that? I hope so.
Im 19 and have been playing guitar for about 8 years now and although its true that there are alot of self absorbed musicians or people who are in play for the wrong reasons I have managed to surround myself with hard working/open minded players. Chumps have always been around but now we have self-important ones.
I agree with him, im a 17 and am a jazz bassist. There is no reward without dedication and a great work ethic. Many people at my school forget this. Personally im not happy unless i get 28-34 hours a week in. Thats about 4 hours a day.
The desire to work hard comes down to one thing: Do you love it? If you love what you're doing, finding the motivation to improve will come naturally. You won't have to be told to work hard or practice. You'll naturally do those things to get better at it. Thats the key to being great in life. If you want to be great at something you must love what you're doing.
When you're able to play with Art Blakey's Jazz Messengers, to record unforgettable sax lines on Public Enemy's Fight The Power or Sting's Englishman in NewYork and to create original contemporary jazz music (including Buckshot LeFonque ;) ANYTHING you have to say gotta be PRICELESS. Even if I agree with the comment below saying there's nothing revolutionary in Branford's speech, you don't hear it that much these days...and it feels so good :)
With that said,there are a few students that really strive to become better musicians, like myself. Like he said MOST of his students not all. Some instructors make the situation no better. They just continue to bown the individuals head up and shell out more great peices for them to half ass and get praise for it. Just plain ridiculous... Cant thank you enough for being who you are and being honest about the upcoming generation of musicians!
@gotmeagrape you should see how he treats young kids who want to jam with him...there is a fine line between education and bullying. He crosses it pretty frequently.
Holy S$%^!!!!!! Branford tells it like it is........amazing! Way to go, Branford....as an extremely successful, albeit former music teacher, I've got to say that you have hit the nail squarely on the head. AWESOME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I totally agree with what Branford says. However, going to music school in Philly has shown me that while 90% of my classmates aren't willing to practice as much as possible to grow as musicians, that last 10% are some of the hardest working young adults I've ever met. A true artist must always strive to improve or risk becoming stagnant.
He is dead on. The problem is not so much self-esteem but rather self-confidence. If a student has self-confidence, he will take criticism as a tool and appreciate it..learn from it. By having self-confidence, self-esteem will come naturally. But instead, kids are TAUGHT to feel bad when criticized. Period. If they were taught to learn from criticism and grow from it, that's what they would do. But they're not. They're coddled and babied, cradle to grave.
thank you branford marsalis. i am a music teacher who has seen this. its amazing to see that the kids come to lessons looking for me to blow smoke up their asses, rather then coming to learn
Princeton is currently working to end that, with their grade deflation program. It's been very effective, if a bit controversial to the students who were expecting to get a 3.5 just by going there.
While I'm not a teacher, I'm a current college student. Therefore, I can honestly say that you are both correct. It's very frustrating when most students in a class don't wish to participate in class discussions or do any of the reading required, leaving myself and the few who actually care about doing honest work to pull the class along so there isn't an hour or more of stilted silence while the teacher lectures. Whatever happened to spending money and investing yourself in what you've spent?
This is one of the most honest and true things I´ve heard about the USA reality today from an American person. As a European I can clearly see that the majority of young American kids are lost in their lazines and egoism, wanting success without any effort. It wasn´t used to be like this in the US.. Do you think it´s not true?So why Brandroford mentions that?
I agree with BM. I have been taking alto sax lesson for 2 1/2 years now and I know I am not that good yet. I don't ask my sax teacher if I am good or not. He wants me to join a community band and I am leaning on just sitting in on a band for 2 or 3 songs as far as getting experience. My goal is to play jazz and blues. I think I may need 2 years of classical sax instructions. But the big picture is to listen and learn.
Such unvarnished TRUTH! What Marsalis says applies to vast numbers of today's regular, non-music junior high & high school students as well. A few combine high intelligence/ability with both perseverence and humility. But THEY are the exceptions. A few of the reasons? Parental over-protectiveness when young; too much "self-esteem" building w/o justification or connection to ACTION; Social Promotion in public schools;An American society that seems to cultivate NARCISSISM, etc It's all over.
What I would do to grow up in the era of swing. It sucks living in the modern world but I still practice my upright every day. I must say though my generation is nothing compared to the "get-everything-handed-to-them" like the generation following World War II. But, that's just my opinion. Not a day goes by that I don't play along with Wynton CDs or Parker records just for the hell of it, and I don't think once about "how good I am" or "how good others think I am." He's right about most students
This is so damn true. At my University I spend hours in a practice room, then watch other kids just float by in their lessons. Then they'll get the same degree I will, interview for the same teaching positions I do, and who know? They could get it. My prof tells me I'm good, but who knows if I am? She probs tells the same thing to the other ones who don't practice.
You've gotta work to earn your keep. Sometimes it may come quicker than other times, but all the same, believe in your own abilities, don't compromise on what you love, and stay true and humble. OR - as my awesome teacher has put it HOW TO SUCCEED IN LIFE IN THREE EASY STEPS 1) BE COOL 2) DON'T SUCK 3) HAVE DRIVE
thats your opiion brandford this is my point when your no longer enjoying playing jazz and it becomes work and stressful then its not fun anymore i tell my students enjoy learning listen to the greats learn your basic scales learn the tunes YOU enjoy then have fun let it rip but then thats my style of saxophone teaching
Mr Sedola at first lesson told me the truth- (I sucked and how did I get in this music program?). That was enough for me to start practicing and I never looked back. Now when people tell me I’m good- I say ok,I’m still working on it.
I think the pervading education problem in this country is a general fear of judgment or discernment. If, among the young or ethnic, you are discerning/judging, you are considered a snob, a perfectionist & trying to tear someone down... rather than trying to help them see and meet a higher standard. A fear of standards is another way to put it... but I'm SURE I could put it better! That said, I'm willing to honor BOTH high standards and raw energy. I think there is a time and place for both.
Truth is Truth and we better suck it up and really listen to this as its an epidemic that most aspiring musicians or wanna be cats just love the idea not the reality of what needs to be done to get to the goal posts...peace
When someone you look up to in life says branford is "mean" i say this: Branford Marsalis does not have a pessimistic view on things, he has a realistic view on things. Although the things he says are very negative, they are all true. And nothing beats the truth. Keep on goin Branford, love your playing.
He's Right in saying this. I always seem to be in trouble with schools for telling students the truth about there playing. It has gotten worse in the last 15 years. There are some students that are the exception, but it is less and less each year. But they can play a video game like i've never seen.
@drummercafe I totally agree with Branford, and he also said it's the same problem that the generation before it had. Everyone wants to hear about how good they are and how right they are, and that has never changed.
What I mean is that whenever we face some difficulty, it is most productive to see it as a challenge and think what we ourselves can do to make it better, rather than blaming others. The attitude of others is not in our own direct control; our own attitude is. However, I will agree with you that I have encountered some students who were especially "challenging"!
Right on! This is a plain and simple truth, and a courageous thing to say. I wonder now in early 2021 if this outlook is still held, not that I doubt Branford, but because I'd love to hear a reaffirmation! I find my students here in America to be profiles in discouragement. I address this head on each week, but like Sisyphus the boulder rolls back down on not just me, but upon us all.
As a teacher I agree with Branford to a point. I think that students mature in stages and eventually they get to a place where they realize that they need to hit the shed and that they don't know it all. Its a matter of maturity and this generation has the luxury of not having to mature as quickly as other generations. Plus its a generation with thin skins where everyone is a winner and you are coddled to avoid injuring a your psyche. Character isn't built that way.
bahahaha! sweet my bass teacher showed me this and just after it one of his guitar students came in and my teacher said that he was getting a B and he was like "but i should be getting an A right?" and it proved a point haha!
@piedlin10 Your response here is very insightful. Mr. Marsalis' statements are true of any era. In every generation, only the select few have the drive, discipline and determination to rise above mediocrity.
I have watched parents make excuses for their kids for 2 decades now (my son is in his twenties). I have watched parents stop speaking to friends because their 'little girl' did not get into the same school that the friends' kid did. The Teachers Union has it's issues, but you cannot lay this one on them.
I wouldn't pay $100 for any show, unless I was supporting a charity with that ticket purchase. And I don't think he's wrong. My own students are not like that, but I've met plenty of others that do fit Branford's description. But they don't take lessons from me because I don't pander to their sense of entitlement.
He's right... But I don't know if the problem is specific only to today's world. I was the same way in college 20 plus years ago until a few vital master musicians showed me that my shit wasn't together. It was something that I knew deep down but up till thenI was in denial about it. It put me on the path that I'm still on, trying to become a better musician. I hope I never feel like I've "arrived," because it will probably mean that I suck again.
Just watched an HBO doc. on a percussion group made up of youngsters called the "Leoprds". Fantastic students, looked to be from around ages 6 to 13 - Fantastic group.
It's more rampant than ever. Last year a teacher of mine had to end class early because he was attending a seminar on how to deal with the new "entitled generation". This is serious.
Brilliant. Branford is absolutely right. I had the good fortune of studying with an older cat who really told it how he saw it, and it's invaluable. I thought I was good until hooking up with him, then reality came crashing down. It didn't feel good, but I've been working my ass off ever since. One of my favorite quotes from him, "You guys don't even know how easy you have it...Miles would cuss you out, Mingus would beat you up!"
Maybe I'm a rare breed of person in the current generation of college students, but I like hearing when my professors point out an issue with my playing. For example, we all know with the jazz ride pattern (drummer stuff...), emphasis is on the quarter note. at the end of this semester, my teacher pointed out I was emphasizing the anacrusis, not the quarter. I like that, because now I have something to work on to sound better, so that I can eventually make a living in music.
He is correct. As a middle school teacher in an urban school district, I'm faced with the same problem. Students do not want to work hard for an education. They want the teacher to do all the sacrificing and compromising while they "breeze" on to the next grade without truly learning anything.
I've been watching this video for over one year and I am still amazed at how insightful and smart Branford is here. He is a genius and so is his brother. Really
I agree ONLY to the extent that the teacher (and his/her) administration) is willing to accept that status. Day 1 is when agreement is established that PERFORMANCE remains the standard; neither "effort" nor "talent" is enough. "Do or do not... there is no try" - Yoda. I had a paramedic student protest to my Dean that the 80% standard I demanded was too high. His supportive response amazed me, "You mean you can be wrong 20% of the time when you're trying to save my life??? Get outta here!!"
and about his statement. I agree with him. a teacher shouldn't give away commends at all. He should show respect to the student as a person and try to help him being a better musician. A musician gets commends by his audience, thats the reward.
Those that assume he's talking about all of his students are wrong. Keep in mind that his drummer for the last year is an 18 year old named Justin Faulkner.
Harsh but fair. I get random guitarists asking me all the time to watch their videos and all they're really doing is fishing for praise. My students are not like that because I'm picky about the ones I take on, but this attitude is definitely out there.
They also worked hard to get where they were. They also sacrificed to get where they were. That's the point I see him making: People who insist they're the best without truly putting forth the effort to BE the best need a wake-up call.
For those of you who are not aware of it, grade inflation is rampant in every level of education. This is indicative of the state of education in the U.S. A past publication of The National Endowment Magazine addressed this issue in detail.
he's telling the truth..I could imagine some professor letting somebody pass just because they don't want to tell them the truth...many great musicians labored every day on thier instrument...they paid a certain price that was simply their time...
I totally agree! As a teacher it is so frustrating to teach people who dont give a shit. Every once in a while you get someone who is dedicated and it gets you motivated to teach them something and you see the light in their eyes and you know. It seems very reflective of people and the way they listen to music these days. They rather listen to something that requires no effort to understand than be challenged and enlightened with something that requires some concentrated listening.
