The Truth Behind Bravo Two Zero. A couple of years before the 2003 Iraq Invasion, Michael Asher (Ex-Para/23 SAS) went to Iraq to try and uncover the truth behind the infamous Bravo Two Zero mission of the Gulf War.
I read Ryan's and McNabs account of Bravo Two Zero when the books first came out and believed everything I read truthful as I was 18 years old and serving in the military. I never served in the Gulf in 1990/91 but when Micheal Asher's book came out I felt very saddened about the way Vince was portrayed, so much so I used Micheal's book for a presentation on my JNCO Leadership course to tell the true story to a military audience and my presentation was backed up with emails direct from Micheal whom I had contacted during my research to make the presentation. Micheal previewed my work, offered me additional advice which i included as I have the utmost respect for this man as not only is he a former member of the Regiment he went to all lengths to research the accounts of the bravery of Bravo Two Zero only to find sadness and embelishment. RIP Vince, never forgotten.
Well said mate, Micheal Asher is quite a writer in his own capacity and if you want a Well researched book to read than a piece of fiction, read Ashers "KHARTOUM The Ultimate Imperial Adventure" about the Mahdist movement from its inception through to its conclusion at Omdurman....in my opinion one of the most exciting and totally true story from start to finish..
it's a personal choice what you believe, the people who were actually there...or someone making some dollars by just talking about it, the media can't get yesterdays stories correct so listening to someone 10 years later..yeah you go with that one
@@ukqwerty999 No it is in their books. Look up Mike Coburn, he took the M.O.D to court over his book soldier 5. During the proceeding his friend known as "Mal" who was one of the brave 2 zero team, gave testimony in court about Ryan and McNabs books. Saying they were utter nonsense. Chris Ryan claiming to attack 2 APC's on his own, breaking a mans neck Rambo style.
Perhaps I can use my own experience to give context to this. I am a veteran of the war in 1991 but was attached to 7th Armoured Brigade, the "Desert Rats". I was in an Armoured Personnel Carrier the 432 and part of the advance up the Wadi Al Batin and into the Kuwait desert. My role was that of Arabic linguist in the world of Signals Intelligence. First a word about Michael Asher, former professional soldier and policeman and territorial SAS. I regard him as the modern day Wilfred Thessiger. Explorer and writer. MA is clearly willing to "Go Native" and adopt the culture and customs of the people who host him on his travels. In doing so he gains their trust and respect. I am qualified to observe that he speaks fluent Modern Standard Arabic with his pronunciation and grammar so clear that I can understand nearly every word. I struggle with the natives as they have strong regional dialects. So we can trust the bits in Arabic as his translation was faithful to the original Arabic. Although I strongly disapprove of "Ryan" and "McNab" turning the SAS into the "Special Author Service" I will briefly play devil's advocate and point out that the British commander of Op Granby General de la Billiere also broke protocol and put his story into print. What's sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander. I was quite taken with MA's iraqi companion Abbas and the testimony of those Iraqis who had direct contact with the patrol. Their natural humanity shone through and they were emphatic in their telling of the story. There was no sign of hatred in their narrative which surely would have been the case had the SAS caused the carnage claimed. Once in the hands of the authorities they would have been subject to harsh and brutal treatment. This I can be sure of as some 22 years ago I did a charity trek in the Himalayas with the Tornado pilot who was shot down and spent weeks in captivity. He had a very hard time. Hopefully Sgt Phillips has come out of this in a much better light. One small detail did surprise me however. The Iraqi who checked his wallet found a picture of his wife and children. This broke protocol as I clearly recall that when we went into battle we were not allowed wedding rings or any photos of family. In the event of capture and interrogation such things can be used as emotional coercion into surrendering information. Finally the two authors have gone on to write successful fiction on the back of their accounts of the patrol. As illustrated by MA and his iraqi interviewees these accounts were highly dramatised to put it kindly. These people wanted their books to sell. In order to do this they had to pander to a civilian population who like to read about death and destruction and watch it in the form of war movies. An honest account of a brave Escape and Evasion operation would not have had such broad appeal. It would have found a niche market amongst fellow military types but it would not have launched their careers in the world of fiction. They are probably both wealthy men now but to me the money would be too high a price to pay for the loss of integrity. Living in Taunton I once went to a private celebration of Bob Consiglio's life. He was a former member of 40 cdo Royal Marines. May God bless Bob, Vincent and all those who have lost their lives in miltary service while doing their duty and trying to relieve the suffering of people who cannot stand up for themselves.
@thebritishbookworm2649 Cheers bro, I did my bit, but thankfully came through it without setlrious physical trauma. The mental health problems and survivor guilt are my constant companions , but I've learned to live with them 🙂
@@thelastaustralian7583 and you have the nerve to call yourself a patriot! It's war, people die, have you been brave enough to enlist? If not don't judge those brave enough to put their life on the line!
@@thelastaustralian7583 The Kurds and the Sunni's were very grateful for the removal of Saddam Hussein. And had we left him in power, he would've acquired nuclear weapons from the then North Korean prime minister. Then go on to invade a neighbouring country for the 3rd time, this time armed with nuclear weapons.
I was in the similar mission back in 2001, dropped off on the mountain top, we spotted Taliban about 2k and moved closer to engage, I took out 2 fighters with my sniper rifle, but about 50 began to encircle, engaging us with RPGs and DshKs, My team leader and I hiked the mountain top to engage them with an ATGM but then my mom woke me up...
More a hero than Ryan, Ryan travelled across the desert and survived in below freezing temperatures, both are hero’s imagine downplaying Ryan from your armchair
I couldn’t give a toss about Asher, McNab or Ryan. If they want to discredit each other to further their own careers then that’s their sad issue. There’s always some Hollywood in these escapades in a bid to boost the storyline. However, Vince Philips reputation should not have been brought into disrepute following his death. Dead people have no voice..
I watched a movie made about this event. I'm a Vet along with several members of my family and friends. We all agree that this mission was flawed from the beginning. There were several pieces of the mission that caused major problems. Bad Intelligence, poor planning ie no warm clothes, besides human error, etc...we don't believe the failure was because of one particular person's decisions or actions.
If any of you lads are interested in the British Royal Marines during the Falklands War, may I recommend Ian Gardiner's excellent book: "The Yompers: With 45 Commando in the Falklands War." An excellent read indeed!
Brigadier Gardiner addressed my staff college course in 2012. He and his book are both brilliant. I have read it and I found it to be one of the most intelligent and thought provoking factual accounts of the Falklands war.
Thanks for this Michael and as an ex-SF communicator myself and someone who has had since boyhood an interest in the formation of the Regiment from its very early days. Your detailed account of the the Bravo Two Zero mission answered all my suspicions after reading the various books covering this particular operation. I hope that the liars who subsequently wrote their inaccurate accounts are seen eventually in a true light and treated accordingly.
Read Bravo Three Zero by Des Powell. It gives a different perspective on the decision making of B2O prior to deployment. Bravo Three Zero was a highly successful mission and a great story itself!
@@garethjones1632 As I understand it, Asher reports Bravo Three Zero was compromised too.......but they were the only SAS patrol inserted who had the sense to take vehicles with them, so they had the mobility and speed to escape - which as Asher knows from living with the Bedouin in the desert for 3 years, is crucial. Bravo One Zero similar to Two Zero, opted not to take vehicles. The difference with them was that shortly after deploying for their mission, the patrol leader on realising how shit and open the terrain was, radioed in and aborted so they were air lifted back out. Bravo Two Zero was the only patrol to go in, on foot, carrying too much gear and no wonder it all went tits up!!
Does anyone consider that, even though Ryan and McNab may be lying, the Iraqi people being interviewed may be lying? It seems sketchy to me that these Iraqi people who's country was being invaded, were so nice to the soldiers. Just seemed unreal all the kindness they are stating they gave toward the soldiers.
yes I agree. According to this sketchy tale of events, a single injured soldier approached them trying to communicate and a mob decide to open fire on him. Not quite as empathic and humane as Asher would have us believe, me thinks.
What do they get from lying? These were Bedouin goat herders, not Saddam loyalists like the Fedayeen. Who has more to gain? The two ex SAS soldiers who made millions off of their books, or these dirt poor Iraqis who will probably never meet another westerner?
it's clever but once again, not necessarily 100% accurate....All people will tell you what they want you to know...perhaps not as it really was...Iraqis are no different.
People forget about another book, not Ryan's or Mitchell's (Mcnab). There is a book about the fk up that was B20, by another member of the operation, his name is "Mark the Kiwi or Kiwi" in other accounts. The title is SOLDIER FIVE, written under a pseudonym called Mike Coburn. He was originally in the New Zealand SAS. His account is much more accurate, believable and he tells of what went wrong or what went right ,rather. I'd recommend it. It's a brilliant read, no hype and the best regarding this mission, IMHO.
A most important and honourable undertaking by Mr Asher, well done sir and thank you for your efforts in bringing to light the real story behind this fateful patrol.
I have met 'Mcnab' at RAF Leuchars when he made the transition from SF soldier to author/celebrity during a book tour at military bases. All personnel in the room were in awe (including the Station Commander) at his life/military and Iraq story and he got a standing ovation. The only people who know the truth are the surviving members of that doomed patrol. It's obvious to me that the book (and following films) would be emblemished in order sell the book. It's also obvious that the patrol was a total fuck up (the poor intel' on the weather, the incorrect frequencies for the Tac B and the decision to not take vehicles are some examples) and should never have been approved in the first place so there are many references of failure lying outside the responsibility of the patrol commanders. John Asher is to be respected for his many accomplishment (I think he was 23 or 21 SAS, not 22) but even he can not definitively prove the whole story was fabricated as severely as stated. I do feel, however, that the Iraqis were not as barbaric and brutal as stated in the book and many senior Iraqi officers were trained at British accademies like Sandhurst. The story made multi millionaires out of 2 of these former SF soliders and tuned them into celebrities and lead to a worship of all things SF that has grown today to such shows as 'SAS, are you tough enough' and 'who dares wins'. The UKSF do not need to glamorized as they know how well respected they are as the blue print for all SF SOPs in the world today. To all that have served with UKSF, that is all the recognition I am sure they need. I also feel immense pitty for the people of Iraq who have suffered for generations because of foreign lead coups and meddling because of desires to control their natural rescources and today, post 2003, their country had been torn apart. Garry Harriman, RAF 1987-2006, South Carolina, USA.
@@notmenotme614 Yesh, it was fucking brilliant. I used to go to Edingbugh and stop off at Inverkeithing on the way home. There is a great pub right by the Forth Rail Bridge all lit up at night. A few jars abd then a fish supper, and last train back to Leuchars. I went to Kinloss and finished my time at Lossie.
Old Achmed at 27:00 was a busy boy, at the roadblock, at the capture in the field, carried him, gave him a blanket, is at the Hospital, trying to give blood.... he got everywhere lol ....i rekon Achmed might have actually written the Book instead of McNab.... should have asked him
@McBain Music Bad INTEL! Their radios didn't work, did they not check them before departing, easy to blame the Royal Signals. They claim they were dropped 20 clicks from their LZ, did they not follow the maps, easy to blame the RAF. Did they not look at a weather forecast to understand how effin cold it was at night, easy to blame the Met Office. They're highly trained professional soldiers who usually get their kit selection spot on so why not on this op. Their Job was to infiltrate under the cover of darkness, set up in that or another Wadi and monitor the MSR for SCUD Missiles being moved along it and report such via their radios that obviously didn't work. If they hadn't have been compromised (this film indicates they were not,) and decided to go off in their own directions they would have been found at the pre-arranged RV and fresh radios could have been brought out. Without radio contact their mission was effectively aborted, they had no role to play. They had to have enough water and rations for their intended Mission length, but there would have been a resupply plan, an ex filtration plan and many other agreed plans, before they boarded that Chinook but without radio contact and then, them apparently changing those plans, nobody could take a wild guess where they were - it is a big effin desert out there. They stay in a covert status unless told to change to an offensive overt status and that could have been an option if ordered to blow up eff up a SCUD or two. The aim of the Mission(s) were to keep Israel out of the conflict by neutralising those SCUDS. The RAF did go back looking for them where they should have been, but they weren't there. Those RAF crews have big balls as the less time flying over enemy territory in such a distinctive looking and sounding crate is no fun at all. I think it was only Vince that allegedly had thermals on and that probably brought on hypothermia during that fast tab out and the sweating and then freezing. If you're trying to escape and evade, the last thing you do unless absolutely desperate, is go anywhere near roads or people. There is so much wrong with this operation it beggars belief, but please don't do the Tony Blair/George Bush WMD - Bad Intel shit. They were told, there aren't any, but the blame still reeks around the innocent who cannot defend themselves. Most disasters start out from a small mistake and it snowballs. I might have been overly twitchy too with the amount of eff ups occurring here, but I wasn't on the ground so can only make educated guesses as to what did likely happen. Over & Out.
@@yosour6733 That's not true. It is possible to look at the facts, as Michael Asher does here. It is no surprise that the RSM of 22 SASR says at the end of the doco that most people in the Regiment regard McNab's tale as "ridiculous".
Fascinating video about what has turned out to be such a very contentious issue. Whilst the idea of this ex SF man ‘ retracing footsteps’ of the original team I suggest that the large age difference between this man and the much younger, battle ready and fit team doesn’t really serve to demonstrate anything.
Fascinating. I was in precisely the same business at precisely the same time (I'm U.S., not British). According to the book, this team lived my exact nightmare. I read the book 25-years ago. My first reaction was as to the stupidity of using that wadi and cave as an objective rally point or patrol base; it violated the most basic tactical tenants of patrolling. That, in truth, they were inserted by helicopter landing some 300-meters away causes me to lose all sympathy. They were begging to be compromised. My other main reaction, 25-years ago, was that much of the tale was a bit incredible. As it happens, I didn't know the half of it. It wasn't a bit incredible. It was utter fabrication. He must have gone to the U.S. Navy SEAL school of operational recount. Why on earth hasn't "Andy McNab" been identified? Why doesn't somebody track him down at the bar-brothel that he probably operates in Pattaya and stick a camera in his face? What a scumbag. On the other hand, my deepest respect to Michael Asher for doing this project and being honest. It takes real character and real courage to tell an ugly truth about one of your own (and we all have them). You sir, are truly a gentleman and a scholar.
@eddie90 Well Eddie, I freely admit that, unlike you, apparently, I am not a professional connoisseur of this story. So, were you "there?" Are you a member or former member of "The Regiment?" Tell me, what's the "real" story? There is nothing wrong with making money from telling the truth. Generally, when former military people can do that, I say more power to them. Making money by bearing false witness--not quite the same thing. So, Asher lied about being former SAS and the regimental sergeant major cooperated in the lie? Interesting. Also interesting that he walked out the entire operation, 10-years later, with living participants and that they all lied, delivering Academy Award performances while caring nothing about the hundreds of their fellow Iraqis that were killed in the various engagements. My goodness. And by the way, no decent person publicly derides a dead teammate on an operation like this in the manner that "McNab" did with Phillips, even if there is a basis for it in truth. If a jury were to be subject to the "McNab" book and this documentary, they would convict "McNab" of lying after about half an hour's deliberation. Again, if you have FACTS not elicited in either accounting, I'm all ears. And thanks a million for the over the top and utterly gratuitous personal invective, Eddie. You're a class act.
@eddie90 My, you're quite an angry man, aren't you? Actually, more like a 13-year-old hooligan on some schoolyard, which is the way many people tend to behave when they are losing an argument. I'm going to ignore your potty-mouthed, juvenile name calling and condescension and attempt some further clarity for the sake of others that may be reading: 1) The fact that someone was "there" does not prove that they aren't mistaken or lying. As a U.S. special operator, circa 80s and 90s, I have experienced this phenomenon first hand. By the way and once again, were you "there?" Are you one of the five survivors or have you spoken directly with one of them about all this? Or are you arguing strictly on the basis of book(s) and documentary(s), as I have made clear that I am? If you are or have, that won't prove your case, but it would certainly be interesting in terms of your anger and stridency about all this. 2) I don't "like and agree with" anything here. I have no dog in this fight. I was a contemporaneously allied operator that was very affected by the book, at the time. That said, the Asher documentary speaks for itself and is unassailable, so far as it goes. Do you contend that the sites identified by Asher were not correct? Do you contend that the dozen or so Iraqis and Bedouins interviewed on the sites, less than ten years hence, were imposters or lying? 3) I stand entirely corrected regarding my (or perhaps Asher's) failure to adequately distinguish between the two authors. Stephen B. Mitchell, aka "Andy McNab," did not run down Phillips in his book. That was apparently Ryan. Fair enough. Again, it's been a while. However, that was not my primary criticism of Mitchell's book, Bravo Two Zero, nor did it seem to be that of Asher. 4) Again, unlike you, I'm not a full time historian of this operation. As I've made clear, all I know about it is what I read in Bravo Two Zero, more than 25-years ago, and what I just saw in the Asher documentary, which I stumbled across on RU-vid. I hear you doing a lot of name calling of Asher, and a lot of pounding on the table, but I don't hear you putting the lie to his primary thesis--which is that Mitchell's book was overwhelmingly fabrication. 5) That Asher was 23 SAS and not a 22 SAS operator, with the same credentials as the B20 members, does not disprove anything he said. You engage ad hominem fallacy here. That said, by the way, based upon some quick internet research, I'd say that, as an author and in terms of professional credibility as such, it is Mitchell that is not fit to lace the boots of Asher. 6) What you cavalierly dismiss as "just the nature of selling books" is properly referred to as being a damnable liar. There were not some 250 Iraqi dead from this operation. There were zero. Which is to say that Mitchell's account is of the "stolen valor" variety. They were not in anything like the peril he described. Moreover, if things were done properly, not only would they not have been compromised to begin with, once compromised, all eight could likely have been extracted without any friendly killed or wounded. This operation was pretty much bollocksed by its participants. They were heroes for being there in the first place. But the three that died did so on the basis of their own screwups or those of their mates and/or command, not from some withering enemy action. Further, if you can name a single major book written by a participant in a high profile Western military operation, from Gulf One to present, that includes this sort of fabrication, please do so. Because I'm not aware of any. Again, if you can apprise me of FACTS that belie Ashers essential thesis, I will happily stand corrected on the lot. Otherwise I shall eagerly await your next salvo of petty invective and name calling. Cheers
@eddie90 1) Neither "there" nor "wasn't there" prove anything, necessarily. EVIDENCE does. Asher amasses clear and convincing EVIDENCE. Mitchell is a confirmed liar. So, on the one hand, we have interviews with a dozen witnesses and participants that don't all know each other, at the various scenes, who are in possession of physical evidence (jerrycan, shovel, binoculars). On the other hand, we have the word of Mitchell, who doubtlessly told major lies about the operation, getting himself rich and famous in the process. 1b) Get a good dictionary (preferably a pre-1980 edition of the OED) and look up irony and hypocrisy. Then please explain to me how I am evincing either. 1c) I post as "Joe Anonymous" here. So, I'm not about to ask you to identify yourself. But I will ask you this: Who the fuck are you to talk to me like that, punk? I was a fully qualified operator in one of the four U.S. services' premier units that you've heard of, and went into harms way as such over the course of many years. Who the fuck are you? If I had to guess, I'd say you're about 23-years-old, washed out of the British Army on some kind of bad conduct discharge, and are writing from your childhood bedroom in a Brixton housing estate whilst your mum does you washing. You've dodged me on this twice. How about answering up in a manner consistent with your anonymity but responsive to my question, you arrogant fucking weasel? 2a) First, Mitchell is now "wealthy," as well. As I understand it, Archer got wealthy on merit, doing work that passes peer reviewed muster. Mitchell got wealthy as a self-aggrandizing bullshitter. 2b) Yes, Islam is a primitive false dogma of subjugation, of, by and for savages. Yes, Iraq is full of subhuman scumbags. And, yes, the dozen or so men interviewed by Archer are extremely credible. All these things can be true at the same time. If you have evidence that they were all paid off by Archer, let's hear it. And someone should get them an agent so they can go to Hollywood, as Mitchell has. Because they are hugely better actors. 3) No. It was my secondary concern, for reasons I will outline below. 4) The reader of this exchange will have to be the judge of who is being more sensible here. 5a) Again, ad hominem fallacy. My interest here is in the veracity of the book, Bravo Two Zero, which has been the basis for an entire cult of worship in the U.K.--a cult of which you are apparently a charter member--and fame and fortune for Mitchell. My interest is not in the biography of Michael Archer. You continually make this about Michael Archer versus Stephen Mitchell, as if it were some sort of military penis measuring contest. Mitchell's military C.V. is far superior to that of Archer. So stipulated. Nonetheless, by clear and convincing evidence, in this instance, Mitchell is lying and Archer is telling the truth. Life is messy and full of contradictions. 5b) "Why? Why were they doing that?" They were doing that because THEY fucked up, not Michael Archer, and not Iraqi war criminals (of which there were many). They were doing that because they failed to plan. Because they threw tactics out the window. And because they had no E&E plan and/or they stupidly deviated from it and/or their comm plan was garbage. Then they had a break in contact in the middle of the bloody desert. Then they foolishly tried to shoot it out, Rambo style, while vastly outnumbered and in parking lot-type terrain. Then Mitchell writes a book lying about the whole thing and making he and his mates out to be something right out of some idiotic 80s Hollywood movie. And he's rich and famous for it, today. I honestly don't know how you're not bloody embarrassed by all this. The only explanations I can posit are that you fit my description in 1b) above, or you are among those profiting from it all. 5c) Yes, after they were well and truly bollocksed, as they were, they should have surrendered. Had they done so, the three dead would be alive today, and there would have been no damage to other lives nor to U.K. or coalition operations. Fortunately, I never had to execute on this contingency, but myself and my guys gamed out this precise scenario at some length. What would we do if an Iraqi BMP drove right up on us in our hide site in the middle of the Kuwaiti desert during the day? Answer: Destroy the crypto gear and surrender. We would have been brutalized as POWs. But we would have lived. So long as there was no further risk to other lives or to mission accomplishment, this was the only reasonable course of action. 6a) "It's just a different point that I can't be fucked to go into?" You can't be serious. "Blame being poorly advised when writing it. Or just blame the author?" That is just exactly what I've done, Eddie. And It's just exactly what has you going mental on me. Now you're just not making sense. 6b) You're not naming any other books. I'm still waiting. Did Rob O'Neill do this in The Operator? Did "Mark Owen" do this in No Easy Day? No. They did not. I am not aware of any other comparable example of this where the author has not been called out (see below). 6c) Mitchell's whole pseudo-annonymity thing--just as most everything else with him, so far as I can tell--is just utter crap. It's nothing more than an attempt to add to the mystique. If Rob O'Neill can go public, Stephen Billy Mitchell bloody well can, too. Moreover, he's actually long been outed, but he still won't show his face on camera? Give me a break. The guy's a duchebag. By the way, I just came across some silly interview of him on RU-vid, done by some toady little clown that buys into all his B.S. The guy is a fast talking dissembler, all day long; completely full of crap and completely full of himself. Anyone with any experience knows the type and can spot them a mile away. Yes, you can have an impressive C.V. and still be a duchebag, Eddie. Live and learn. "Good psychopath." He makes me want to puke. 6d) "Stolen valor" is the correct term. And it is because I am an American, in part, that I use it. In Britain, in large part, if one occupies a certain status, then one simply may not be criticized. A sort of primitive clan loyalty obtains with regard to "one of one's own." This is why I was so complimentary of Archer (22 versus 23 SAS dichotomy notwithstanding). In the U.S., we hold out truth as the highest value--at least the minority of us that still deserve to be called Americans do. This is why, for example, Richard Marcinko (the best example of an American "Andy McNab," to my knowledge) has been largely shunned in the SEAL community. This is why the late Chris Kyle and that idiot Jessie Ventura have become the subjects of some controversy. That Marcinko is a full of shit asshole is more important than that he was a SEAL, and was the first commander of the SEAL "Tier-1" unit. He was called out by name, by a "Tier-1" SEAL, in one of the two books I mentioned above. I seem to recall that it was No Easy Day. As I understand it, Mitchell is similarly regarded by his SAS and SBS colleagues. And if he's not, he should be. Please advise. I have never "bloated" regarding my military C.V. and neither has anyone I've ever known, for whom I've had any respect. It's a deadly serious subject and the closest thing to absolute factual accuracy that can be obtained is called for. Cheers Indeed, Again
@eddie90 1) I'd never heard of Michael Asher before stumbling across this documentary. And it is clear and convincing evidence, again, so far as it goes. If it were not, Mitchell's reputation would be in tact. I'll stipulate to all your factual assertions here. They change little or nothing. You can't let go of not liking Asher. I'm not concerned with that and I don't particularly have an opinion on it. There is not much more to say here. 1b) Notwithstanding that you don't like it, there is nothing ironic or hypocritical in anything I've said. And you lecturing me on common sense is truly rich. 1c) Yes. I see. Lovely to hear that the millennial phenomenon obtains in full force in contemporary England. I'm more than old enough to be your father and you talk to me like I'm shit on your shoe. Actually, It would be more accurate to say that I'm old enough to be the father that you never had, hence your utter lack of respect, which of course, at bottom, is a function of your utter lack of self-respect. I'm trying to imagine myself speaking to someone of the early Vietnam generation the way you do to me. It's absolutely unthinkable. You won't understand this, but I actually feel sorry for you. Congratulations on the house in Essex. Perhaps you'll eventually acquire some manners to go with it. If you do, you could someday find yourself meaningfully married, instead of on weekend pissers to Poland. 2a) Mitchell is wealthy, but he has no honor. I wouldn't trade places with him for eternal life. 2b) They have no reason to lie. Their stories make perfect sense. 5a) Asher is "cashing in" by exposing a lie. Mitchell is "cashing in" by lying. 5b & 5c) Yes, no plan survives contact with the enemy. Thanks for the epiphany. Particularly in spec ops, there are plans and then there are plans. If you are to E&E west after missing x-number of comm windows, then just decide to go north, guess what? Also, I remember that, according to the book, the whole op was just thrown together haphazardly and in an absurd hurry. None of the planning that goes into something like this took place. My unit, at the time, would have refused the mission. This is where commanders need to tell higher to go fuck themselves: "We do this properly, with proper support and preparation, or we don't do it. I'm not sending my men on some fool's errand suicide." This didn't happen here and three men paid the ultimate price--for nothing. As to surrender, the real point is that they never should have been in this position to begin with. But once they were, yes, if they had surrendered, the three men would still be alive. If you think they should have died as they did, and for absolutely nothing, then I'm glad I never served with you. 6a & 6b) Once again, I'm not aware of any major recent book written by an ex-military type with this sort of fabrication. And apparently, you're not either. 6c) I don't quite savvy your point about checking my atlas. However, if any former Provos with the means to act on it wanted to do anything about Mitchell, he would have been dead a long time ago. The shooting war in Ulster is over. He's a drama queen trying to bolster his "secret squirrel" mystique. It reminds me of him in that nauseating interview I referenced above, talking about pulling civilian clothes operations in housing estates in Derry. If Stephen Mitchell had walked into either of the housing estates in the Bogside in the 1980s, wearing civilian clothes and with a concealed sidearm or less, he would have been dead in 15-minutes. Anyone that was there at the time knows that. Mitchell has got "Full of Shit Duchebag" tattooed on his forehead. My only "agenda" is the truth or falsehood of Bravo Two Zero, by Andy McNab. I've been familiar with the various London accents since before you were born, and I'm able to control for that. I wouldn't trust Mitchell to tell me the time of day. And as regards American birds and your sex life, American millennial females, generally speaking, are among the dumbest organisms walking the earth today. Not only are they suckers for foreign accents, most members of your generation will drop trousers for a monitor lizard with the right piercings and tattoos, so don't let it go to your head. 6d) We disagree as to your major distinction between being a full blown Walter Mitty and "bloating." Clearly, proving you wrong would be as impossible as having the last word. I wouldn't dream of achieving either. Cheers again. I've got a bit of a headache myself.
@@joeanonymous1834 You are exactly right. At 5b and c: indeed there are plans and there are plans but this mission was already screwed from the begin. Even improvice adapt and overcome won't help in this one. But this team wasn't a team at all if you ask me. Who ever might blame Philips, if you are a team then you operate as a team.Means that if anything goes wrong the team made the mistake. For sure you don't go fancying about later that one of your buddies was the one to blame. And Eddie90, Mate is this just because Joe is American or do you write on all negative comments about McNab? And no i am not American but Dutch but just asking because I didn't see much from you in other comments
Other members of 22 SAS who were involved in other ops in the same theatre at the same time, have discredited both 'Authors' as grosly exaggerating their exploits. Read Radclif's book...
Being in the same area at the same time means what? What 'area'? In the same 50 - 100 - 200 miles? People in the same battle and in the same battalion have different 'local' perspectives on battles they were in, so I wonder How the other members can discredit when they were not there. Also, I do believe that McNab called out Asher for an interview together shortly after Asher started his debunking. Asher conveniently buggered off abroad.
Honestly as soon as I heard 250 killed I was very skeptical, and reminded of Marcus Luttrell's book 'lone survivor' and his claim they fought against 200 men when Taliban footage from the attack shows less than 10 fighters. Still love the movie, but it seems like a common exaggeration Edit: A lot of this is giving me operation red wings vibes. Dropping in to close, Heli being heard, tracks being seen, claiming locals reported you, its very interesting
I was in the Australian military when this story was fresh 91'. At the Unit we would talk about this mission, it was most likely 92'or 93' by then. Being in Western Australia, I was at Irwin Barracks at the time, a stones throw from the SASR Campbell barracks, the headquarters of the Australian SAS, so we held these guy's in very high regard. I later went on to read both, "Bravo two zero" and "The one that got away". No military mission goes exactly to plan. We used to have a saying at the unit that goes, Poor Preparation and Planning, Provides a Piss Poor Performance. This was one of those performances. RIP to those who gave their lives...Lest we forget
SAS are the toughest guys ever. Their selection course is lethal and there are years when nobody makes it. In other words, they are hard core. The "official story" makes them look like incompetent mall cops.
Thses things happen. Mistakes are often made, another example of a complete nonsense SF cock up is Lone survivor, the lies in that book are a disgrace to those that died!
Doesn't matter what level training you have or equipment, mistakes can happen and things can go wrong. I don't think we would have any death's at all if everything went to plan everytime. Senile comment
i was in oman in 93 where we had 2 SAS guys training us and we had a q&a when asked if it was true all they said was "we get together at the end of the mission and come to the same story" say no more.
no matter what version you believe its pretty obvious Mcnab either obscenely embellished his exploits or just lied to save face, even the CSM who debriefed McNab had grave doubts over his version of events, Mcnab in putting the blame for the failure of the patrol on his deceased comrade Vince was despicable. Asher who was SAS himself believed these guys and he initially wanted to believe McNabs account.
@eddie90 agreed, I've read McNab's book several times and have never found this blame of Vince that so many people here seem to have picked up on. McNab is in fact quite critical of himself, particularly when the group gets split. Ryan is very critical of Vince though, and that was part of the reason for Mike Coburn's book, to try and set the record straight.
@@cruachan1191 agree. McNab several times openly took responsibility publicly for what happened. I think, given the dire situation they were in, his decisions to push to Syria were perfectly plausible.
Without Prejudice. No matter what Michael Asher says., the members of the Bravo 2 zero patrol went through he'll. No one will really know the truth, except the members of this patrol. Let's please remember the poor guys who lost their lives. Not to mention the torture that the captives endured. Also the excellent effort of Ryan. But most of all to Vince Phillips, who in my opinion only, was left for dead. May God's blessings be on all of you.
According to Wikipedia: "Asher claimed that his main achievement, though, was in exonerating Sergeant Vince Phillips, who died on the mission, and who had been blamed for its failure. Phillips' family received an official letter of exoneration from the Ministry of Defence as a result of Asher's work. Asher's book was received indignantly by 'McNab', who described it as 'infuriating', while 'Ryan' made ill-disguised threats of violence against Asher in an interview in . Threats to sue Asher for libel never materialised." Some things we know for sure: We can imagine that being caught lying is indeed 'infuriating'; Threats of violence against someone who has exposed your lies is suspect behaviour; Threats to sue Asher for libel are very different from actually having sufficient evidence to do so; Asher did an honourable thing for Phillips; Vince Phillips' family.
I get the impression the Mr Asher seems to be a bit envious of A. McNabb's accomplishments. Relying on the enemy (former) to recount a truthful version of events is very poor form. Just my observation.
Does anyone else find it odd that every person he speaks to was directly involved, the goat herder, the taxi, the policeman,the man who found the body. Their evidence is the lid of a claymore and some standard 5.56 rounds, hardly anything specialist, where are the bergens and kit? And for some reason these peoples word is accepted as gospel ahead of the word of British soldiers. No doubt there are embellishments in both sides of the story. Lies everywhere....For some reason I'm reminded of the iraqi minister of defence who said Iraq were close to defeating the infidels in 2nd gulf war as the missiles and bombs were leveling every building within a 5 mile radius
At last a bit of mature thinking , although i do believe both Macnab and Ryans books are exaggerated the way this author gets un presidented access to a country that we we still technically at war with and all the ` original ` kit and equipment just appeared ?? please bare in mind Michael Asher did a complete hatchet job on his book about another great british hero T,E Lawrence ` Lawrence of Arabia ` oh and Asher was kicked out of the S.A.S ....... just join the dots Reply
I've now read 3 books about this operation and also revisited this video and i believe a fair bit more happened than these locals are saying. There was definitely a anti-aircraft team stationed near by to the first fire fight contact with the 3 local mem. This is an absolute fact. Now there's no way these soldiers wouldn't have gone and investigated the fire fight and i believe they did have the original fire fight with the soldiers albeit slightly exaggerated by McNabb. Ryan details a few dozen which is more realistic.
I read this book many years ago and was in awe of the story. I never doubted the content, because I thought that the memebers of the SAS could be trusted. Boy, was I wrong. This video just reinforces to me that in every great organization there are still people who act dishonorably and selfishly, looking out for themselves. It is quite a shame that Ryan and McNab would drag down a fallen comrade. Even if it was true what Ryan and McNab said about Vince, no real soldier would ever blame a fallen comrade, but rather give praise for the sake of Vinces family. I am really glad that Ryan and McNab were exposed, and I do believe an investigation should begin to potentially rewrite the history books.
I agree...i did the same many years ago. The saddest fact is that he was actually named in their books whilst they went under a pseudonym. Potentially that could've had serious ramifications for his next of kin. "You couldn't make it up" but there lies the irony, it appears they did.
Obviously the boo is exaggerated but this is just as bad. There was a firefight at the checkpoint that was initiated in the car, the Iraqis wouldn’t be that nice to captured combatants. They just wouldn’t.
The officials that planned this mission should be placed in front of a firing squad. Not knowing elementary things such as the desert in winter can drop into the minuses is ridiculous, especially for a special forces outfit like the SAS. Men died there for nothing. For shame!
To be honest im shocked at what iv just learnt...I understand drama for TV and films and books but...The fallen men's reputation is mared by these accounts by Ryan and Mc Nabb..
FACT: a Court Martial was considered by the Brass of 22 SAS after looking at all of the "evidence" relating to the BTZ series of events. This alone tells you all you need to know. That is all. However ... there is no doubting the courage and bravery of anyone involved in 22 SAS (et al) operations ... its just that there are very real problems with the credible evidence of this event.
They must have had a lot of ammunition to kill an entire battalion, especially when you consider not every shot will be on target and the suppressive fire from LMGs
Watching this in 2023 I think it's very sad that these men had to lie. they already had my respect for being in our armed forces and not only that they were in the SAS. They let themselves down the SAS down more importantly they let their FALLEN COMRADE'S down all to make a couple of quid R.I.P to the brave men that never came home you will never be forgotten.
how lucky this ex sas turn coat finds everyone who was there, and how nice they were to these invading sas guys, sorry asher is a disgrace to side with them, i doubt anyone in your old squad have anything good to say about you mr asher
The whole operation was an absolute abortion , I lost one of my best pals on the patrol Bob Consiglio who was my oppo at 40 Commando Royal Marines. RIP Bob.
What actually happened...I don't know. But I find it disturbing that he believes whatever the people he meets claim without questioning it, but doesn't believe his former peers. This is not an investigation and the thing is biased
Actually, they weren't his peers. Michael Asher served with 21 SAS, which is the Reserve (part-time) SAS, not 22 SAS, the Regular Army unit portrayed in Bravo Two Zero. While still a good unit, 23 SAS is not taken seriously by the Regular Army SAS and, in fact, 21 SAS was stripped of its SOF status following an inquest regarding their performance in the war in Afghanistan. They were removed from UKSF and placed , along wth 22 SAS and the Honourable Artillery Company in 1st Intelligence, Surveillance and Reconnaissance Brigade. A great shame, especially considering their history and the fact that they are technically senior to 22 SAS. So Asher really has a bit of an axe to grind, alebit that I do believe there Bravo Two Zero stroy was heavlly embellished (a money-maker of "McNab").
Uk gulf war 1 and 2 the UK military and government under equipped their men and didn't do proper planning and buying equipment. BRAVO Two Zeros mission was rushed due to trying to stop scuds hitting Israel.
It just goes to show how easily brainwashed we are. I read bravo two zero and believed every word of it, not one good word was said about the Bedouin people and i am very happy to have watched this and watched the truth. You can understand why these people despise us. Another good docu movie to watch is the "Lion of the desert" Another real eye opener and another docu movie that makes you understand why these people hate us!!
Michael Asher's account rings true. The Bedouin are separate from the Iraqi state and they would have welcomed the SAS soldiers under their law of hospitality towards strangers. Bravo Two Zero appears to be a fanciful account embellished for the publisher and a gullible British public. You only have to remember that in 2003 we embarked on another fanciful mission to find ''weapons of mass destruction'' in Iraq. I am not doubting the fact the SAS are brave and expert in what they do. Simply the book is a work of fiction. Asher seems to have hit the nail on the head. I think the SAS now sign a non publicity clause in their contracts?
@@casperdog777 : His credentials are impeccable, having passed both NZSAS and 22 SAS selection courses, so worth a read for that alone. I do know that British MoD was dead set against the book going to press. As to the authenticity of the book, I wouldn't know sorry. But I assume that the truth lies between Andy, Chris, Peter Radcliff, and Mike Coburn's accounts.
@bravo23 delta You asking me? I haven't alluded to my thoughts on that. No, I wasn't there. We are talking about a patrol from the first Gulf War, where they were tasked with Scud hunting not WMD's
After all that he never asked what happened to Vince Phillips body? Where is it? What did they do with it? Bleedin' hell! Asher didn't even question the huge oversights that were made at the planning stage, by both the patrol and the head shed which had consequences for the patrol, but perhaps that was cutting too close to the bone when you want their cooperation.
Agree. A lot of facts here were glossed over, and it's all very well presenting us with eyewitness accounts but even then, these people will tell you what they have had time to reflect on and what they want the world to believe of them. If they were so humanitarian and empthic, why did an angry mob shoot a single wounded solder, approaching them in plain daylight who was trying to communicate with them, dead in the street? Particularly if not a single Iraqi was killed...Be careful what you believe folks. I think a lot was glossed over here.....
This guy just happened to find every key witness, 10 years later , I am sure these Iraqis where paid a small amount to stand and talk, that’s how it works, although the stories from mcnab and co are exaggerated, I also sense a certain degree of horse shit in this documentary too
When your capture looks imminent it's not likely that you're going to kill a few of the enemy, and then expect to be taken prisoner by their mates, is it? Resistance at that point would be suicidal stupidity.
@eddie90 That would be the case with the Taliban or ISIS, but not in the Iraq war, fought against a sovereign state. use your brain mate. After all four of them were captured and survived didn't they? They might not have been taken prisoner if they'ds gunned down loads of the friends of the people who they surendered to,
@eddie90 You raise good points of principle but they're not nuanced to the actual circumstances. They DID surrender, they DID survive, and they didn't kill the shepherd boy, AND according to Michael Asher didn't kill many (or any) people either. There's little point in a post mortem at this point. If any enemy unit behind your lines, killed ordinary civilians, then it would be justifiable to categorise such acts as war crimes, or straight forward crimes and subject to the appropriate punishments under the law of the land. We often see 'black ops' missions in films and the occasional episode of Ultimate Force, where, layghably, the CO says words to the effect of (paraphrase) "Important mission. If you get caught we'll deny any knwledge of you. Volunteers only". LOL - only a braindead arsehole would go along with that.
@eddie90 Just been reading this page. I don't think Richard can be bothered to engage in thesis length discussions over something as trivial as a different perspective on a random video. Get a fucking life dude.
@@claymationwaves i dont think they class lying to us as a disgrace if we was muslim then maybe a diferant matter im not racists just seems how they would get round lying to us
All I will say, is one event can have very different accounts based on person that’s why eye witnesses are considered unreliable at best. Someone’s state of mind and past experience plays a big role on how they perceive a current experience
I do not know truth on Bravo 2 Zero. But nothing is clear, and it's not for honor and glory of SAS, I love so much. Could it be only business for A.McNab, money only money.
Heart breaking watching this the 5th time. Read all the books on it too. Believed the first two as a kid. Brilliant books but sad they had to lie. Bravo Three ZERO was excellent.
So pleased we have a 23 (TA) SAS to man to record this operation a man who has never been a Regular soldier, better investigation required, it may well have been embellished, what has Gen Sir Peter De La Billiere had to say??
Of course Mr Michael Asher had enough when he reached the river Euphrates. Because it's a television programme, and apart from finishing it, to experience what Ryan went through, theres no need, he's disggraced all of this patrol enough. It's really good entertainment, and he's had his pay day, so Mr. Michael Asher, to you sir ,mission accomplished. Sleep well and easy. Thomas.
Thanks for the video I haven’t seen it before , I know vince and I was at the debrief in sterling lines. Vince was a nice bloke one of my instructors on my dems course . Mitch stud up at that briefing said nothing about kills , but for me vince was the old guy and the scape goat , I thought your doc was spot on mate
Great video, thanks for posting; and stating the true version. I can't see why these ordinary Bedu/Iraqi people would lie about the details. However, I can see why an author would beef up a book, to appeal and sell more.- not that I condone it. But for Vince to be mocked and belittled; and deprived of his medal is just plain wicked; of ALL concerned.. Any medals due, should be given to the family, and as an Author myself, I say shame on him and anyone who distorts truth, to sell books.
Well done indeed. An shocking expose' on lies and incompetence costing men their lives. The most infuriating thing to me is that the only one deserves a medal died doing his duty and was blamed for the mission going wonky. Seems that the ones profiting from the book of lies should be punished.
makes B20 look like a bunch of Boy Scouts , hard to believe how incompetent they were , I worked in Saudi Arabia for 15 months up to the war , I worked on a mapping program , doing 250K JOG mapping , and I field checked maps in and along the border area . in the work up to the war u would have thought the SAS would have learnt a little something about the area , but it appears that was not the case .
My uncle served with mcnab in the rifles, and my cousin in the regiment, they both said he was a good soldier but full of shit and was full of himself.
I don't see the problem here. Our Navy seals are always over exaggerating their bravado in the books they write. American sniper, lone survivor are just two examples. It's still one hell of a fete, that any of bravo two zero made it back alive
Gatecrasher. Thanks buddy that means alot and why shouldnt they make money after risking their lives. The people making negative comments would do the same if they could. Makes me laugh
Those poor bastards were dropped off in the winter in the middle of the desert without proper clothing !!!! That says a lot about who sent them there in the first place ! They killed no one but their own selfs
Why would the 8-man team have taken a jerrycan with them on an unmechanised op? And if that is questionable as hard SAS evidence, is the rest of the items not likewise questionable?
As they say no I in team So to my mind they are a team So if shit happens it happens to the team And no blame to individuals As for guys who made millions from books Should look at them shelves As to me Money graders
It's definitely directed but I don't think this is the "actual" investigation since it's only for the 1 hour TV segment. He did his own investigation with the locals and then he goes back with the camera crew and goes over a condescended version of his investigation in a dramatic format. This is a common documentary technique if they have no money to flesh out a months long investigation (You know how some Documentary's you get to see they filmed it over months, sometimes years) while this looks like they had the budget for maybe 1 to 2 weeks of production. So in essence he had to do a bunch of his own research, interviews, and a lot of dry-runs before he brought the cameras. Honestly as much as I'd prefer him going over the past-narrative format, with only 48 minutes, there's no time to do that. Plus it's Channel 4, they love short run times, lets em sell their programming to syndication and rerun schedule. Anyways I agree this direction is contrived, but not the whole investigation (It does sound like the SAS got compromised by 3 civilians with AKs, and in the embarrassment of the situation, they not only tried to forfeit responsibility/humiliation by claiming they went up again 250 republican guard, 2 LAVS, and a Ural, straight in with LAWs and 40mms, but also putting the brunt of the compromise on a dead man they didn't like, it sounds to me like a Recon element with 3 FN Minis got their OP fucked up by a few farmers, and it lead to them making a worse choice than the last, and suddenly it gets more shameful, you're SAS, the regiment, this isn't supposed to happen, and not because of 3 civilians, so why not make up the story? Anyways Just the "cinematic" choices the production made to present the information as quickly and punchy as possible. Personally I would have preferred less of the silly shots like 11:28. In fact this feels almost like a reality-tv director made this, it has a very "kitchen nightmares" vibe to it.
@@shamusbob7969 your a fucking idiot😂😂 they got spotted by the guy on the bulldozer or the kid. Then they moved off and got bumped by a enemy. Asher story is that 3 guys with one bolt action rifle made the sas throw smoke greandes and fire 100s of shots, if it happend like that, the 3 guys would not be telling the story because they would be resting in bits
Mi fa' ridere questo documentario, dai, chiunque ha esperienza nella guerra, sa che ci sono momenti difficili,.... decisioni che portano vite. Non mi sembra caso di buttare fango slla SAS, soldati in guerra sono più dei fratelli.... sono convinto che erano pronti dare la vita uno per altri.
Although i do believe both Macnab and Ryan's books are exaggerated the way this author gets un presidented access to a country that we we still technically at war with and all the ` original ` kit and equipment just appeared ?? please bare in mind Michael Asher did a complete hatchet job on his book about another great British hero T,E Lawrence ` Lawrence of Arabia ` oh and Asher was kicked out of the S.A.S ....... just join the dots Reply
They were hundreds of miles behind emeny lines outnumbered and had to walk 170 miles with water and food carrying 80kgs of kit why do people have to question them
