Not obstruction. Defender was tricked into committing to the wrong attacker, not blocked from following BOD (that he realises at the last second that the ball has gone elsewhere makes no difference, he committed to the player he though was getting the ball). No different from a screen pass.Forward pass is borderline. BOD is running slightly sideways (see the halfway line) and the ball is allowed to drift forward in a pass to allow for the forward momentum of players. Would have been very harsh to penalise.
It seems to me that many New Zealanders i've come across love to hate O'Driscoll for some reason. In my view the man is a fantastic rugby player no matter what anyone says. Credit where its due in all fairness.
Or in other words; you’ve never come across any New Zealander. We don’t hate him. We just see how overrated he was and what a egomaniacal primadonna he is. We all know he was an excellent player.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but when O'Driscoll passed the ball to himself, was he and the ball behind the line when he started the pass, then he and the ball were in front of the line when he caught it a half-second later, which would make this really a forward pass?
O'Driscoll as the worlds best centre for 10 years, showed again today for the Lions his genius. Set up 2 tries, set up another for Monye who failed to put it down, set up Bowe which was disallowed for tough crossing call, he creates mayhem, just like he did to France in 2000 Six nations with hat trick in Paris 8 weeks after same French team outclassed and outskilled NZ in WC semi in an open game as they didnt have an O'Driscoll Had scrum gave O'Driscoll & Roberts parity possession, Lions win
The tackling player was committed to tackling the player who didn't receive the ball (No. 11) and was in no position to tackle O'Driscoll. And as long as the ball doesn't touch the ground or another player you can throw it forward and catch it again.
@ozzie16 Cant have it both ways. If o driscoll is not in posession after he throws it in the air then he loses the ball forward, or else he doesnt lose the ball forward in which case it's crossing. In fact, he regathers before the ball touches the ground or another player, so he is always in posession (it's the same as when a player nearly knocks on but then regathers). But it is, therefore, crossing.
That number(120000) was only reached in the last two years, In 2003 Ireland's registered rugby players was 53,000. It's gone up in the last couple of years because of the success in the Six nations, Heineken cup. This crop of players we have now came from that 53,000. And if we can win the Six Nations, Heineken Cup and magners league with that number(53,000) then in 10 years provided the current numbers stay the same we should be a hell of a lot better.
@AdamR2468 When a player throws the ball up in the air as O'Driscoll did he is still in control of the ball and as such he retains possession of the ball. This would mean that it is fact obstruction because the defender was prevented to tackle the player "in possession" of the ball. So unfortunately there would be something illegal about it.
just to say, message from england, i"m proud of how well he played for the Lions, we were unlucky against those dirty Boks! bad luck to Ronan o"Gara i don"t hold grudge it was a silly mistake, but a mistake when all said & done. can"t wait for next Lions tour to Oz!
Guys, can we not all just put our differences aside and as one people, worship for a while at the altar of BO'D, Thats why we're all here looking at this video. Lets not forget whats truly important. What a fucking legend!
@accident111 I understand that, but the fact is when BOD ran behind the 11 he did not have the ball... therefore it is a bit like a pass and loop exercise... It can also be seen that the defensive player there would have tackled BOD if he had run forward, but he would not have caught him on his new directional path.... i dont know how you can claim obstruction if there is another player closer who did not try to tackle him....
A forward pass only occurs if it touches another player. If it touches the ground it's a knock on. Until either of those occurs, the player who last touched the ball is considered to still be in possession. In this case, though obviously intentional, it's refereed as though BOD had caught the ball poorly & had to juggle. Interestingly, Hickie had the option of playing the ball as it was in flight (probably intended to) as a potential pass reciever so obstruction can't be called.
He single handidly makes Ireland play well. Constantly performs and scores against the big teams, and in big games and is one of the best organisational defence players in the world, in probably the hardest position on the pitch to defend. I ask you, who is better?
Lets look at Irish sportsmen the last 20 years in Five major sports.... Brian O'Driscoll - Rugby World player of the decade (2000-2009) Padraig Harrington - Golf's Three time Major winner Roy Keane - Manchester United's most successful ever captain Tony McCoy - the most successful Horse racing Jockey ever Steve Collins - Middleweight, and Super middleweight world champion Thats in a nation of 4 million people, where Gaelic sports are #1 and #2. Outstanding!
I agree, O'Driscolls been impressive all things considered but is already playing less during the year to ensure he's fresh for the internationals. That and his off the field sponserships is one of the main reasons for him not going abroad to earn more in France for example, he would have been burnt ot by now. France are favourites but you never know, should be a good game in any case
brian odriscoll was voted rugby player of the decade by some no name british/irish magazine. richie mccaw was voted world player of the decade by reuters, a world leading sport and news organisation.
Okay, if you want to be picky about it; No 6n team has scored a try against NZ in the last 2 november tours. Happy? That munster side was missing players, but they still trained together, they were an established team. They had guys like Howlett, Mafi, Warwick, Tipoki lifting the team. The All Blacks side had never played together and carried names such as Ben Franks who had never played for the ABs before and never will again. MY personal opinion, i dont regard them as the all blacks
Only trick i saw carlos spencer do was gift Stirling Mortlock in 2003 World Cup semi-final that kicked his team out of the World Cup. As for Cullen, didnt he play in 1999 World Cup semi-final against France where the NZ backs such as Umaga were outclassed and had no answer to the French who ran riot 6 weeks later, same France team were single-handedly destroyed by 20 year old O'Driscoll in Paris with a stunning hat-trick, gone on to be renowned as the worlds best centre over the past decade
the i guess you'd call that a dummy pass, was great but that's also the first time i've seen some one drop the ball at the other players feet and have him knock it out i don't know if they got that line out but that whole thing was amazing
"The All bleeks are the beest" ...LOLz Munster have beaten NZ... Rugby in Ireland was low profile until the last 10 years. Its still 4th in team sports in terms of popularity. though it has increased quite a bit...the day in early 2000 when this new kid O'Driscoll danced around the French in Paris (a team who outskilled NZ 8 weeks earlier in WC semi) with a stunning hat trick in Six nations victory... triggered it. Speaking of France, i see they inflicted their usual victory over NZ today
Have you ever seen Conrad Smith play? Hes the most accurate player in the world. He never makes a mistake and never makes the wrong decision. He had an awesome year this year (he was many pundits pick for centre in a world xv) Hes perfect for the All Blacks set up. Honestly, BOD would be lucky to sit on the bench for the ABs, he would have this year, but with Kahui back? doubt it.
@xxPanteraxxx I think he's trying to say NZ mostly deny that O'Driscoll is as good as he is because well, he isn't theirs. If he played for a NZ club or was a Kiwi himself, they'd be singing his praises. But after those 4 warm up matches, 2 of which I attended at the Aviva, there wasn't a lot of our main players missing. So if we play like that and that is near enough to our best squad, we don't stand a chance in that case. I personally, like Keith Wood, think it's Australia's time this year.
@Yankman08 Ok,seriously you do not know what your talking about.He is the 11th highest international try scorer of all time, he is former british and irish lions captain,Player of the decade,Grand slam winner,captain of the Irish rugby team,most 6 nations trys,most heineken cup trys, 2006,2007 and 2009 player of the rbs 6 nations championship,international try of the year 2008 against australia and IRUPA players player of the year 08/09,so its pretty obvious he is the best player in the world
@SirJimb0 im going to tend to disagree with you there. as you yourself said, the pass does not go into Hickie's hands-therefore not a pass to Hickie.now think of the times when a player tries to catch the ball in the air,knocks it on&then tries to regather-are the opponents allowed to tackle him before he regathers&is "not in possession" as you would call it?the answer is yes they may-if a player attempts to regather a ball(or recollect as in driscoll's case)the opponent may tackle him.simple...
@Cryoah Also true, but in the case of a scissors move (which this is fairly similar to), if the dummy runner takes out a potential tackler it can be classed as obstruction
I've watched this many times and I don't think there's a case for obstruction as O'Driscoll wasn't in possession of the ball when he ran behind Hickie. However, play should have been brought back for a forward pass, as O'Driscoll releases the ball before the halfway line and recollects it over the halfway line.
Ok, im going to tell you all why this is perfectly fine: We see players all the time who run with the ball, bounce off a tackle and lose the ball, before it hits the ground the regain control of the ball and there is no penalty, no scrum etc etc etc. therefore this is exactly the same. BOD "loses control" of the ball, and regains it, before it touches the ground.... No problems...
@duncandohnut1993 True in case of a kick, but now, there was a teammate running a straight line calling for the ball, he wasnt trying to stop any opposition players. What brian did was basically a miss pass to himself, and as with a normal miss pass, the dummy runners aren't doing any obstruction whatsoever
@OnenessCalibratious The ball went slightly forward but it did not touch the ground or another player. It does not state clearly in the rules that you can not transfer the ball to the other hand going forward. It is left up to interpretation. What you are saying would count someone who fumbled a pass by juggling it then regaining control with forward momentum as passing the ball forward to himself. I do see your point. Cos other wise we might aswell play gridiron. Refs interpretation.
i have no problem with your 'well rounded and fair analysis' and i certainly don't challenge but this is a video hosting site, and not every opinion posted needs to be based and founded on a well-reasoned argument. for example, i am irish. brian o driscoll has done fantastic things for irish rugby and for that reason alone he can held in very high esteem by any irish rugby fan. perhaps to call him the greatest rugby player in the world is being overly zealous but that's sport.
kirkybatley, yes it is obstruction, looks like it was called too as you see them running back past where the mark was at the end, you also can't throw the ball forward over someone to yourself either.
My point was that you have an advantage, we were talking about population and player numbers. Anyway, here it was common knowledge, but if you say they were all under 5 then I'll take your word for it.
@bidefordrfc Obstruction is about the defensive player being impeded. Whether O’Driscoll has the ball is irrelevant. It’s about the defender having the freedom to defend against the current ball carrier or the potential ball carrier. The defender was taken out by number 11 preventing him from doing either. The defender was within 2 metres of O’Driscoll when he was taken out, whether the defender was able to reach O’Driscoll we will never now as he was prevented from doing so.
@accident111 " law 10.1 on obstrcution states that a player must not intentionally move or stand in front of a team-mate carrying the ball thereby preventing opponents from tackling the current ball carrier or the opportunity to tackle potential ball carriers when they gain possession." He wasn't infront of O'Driscoll.....so he didn't intentionally move or stand in front of a team-mate carrying the ball thereby preventing the number 11 from tackling BOD, or BOD......
Yeah, i think it should have been McCaw last year. He captained Canterbury to the ANZC championship, the Crusaders to the Super 14 championship and the All Blacks to the Tri nations, Bledisloe and a Granslam where noone in the home nations scored a try against them. He literally won everything he could win. yet he didnt get a nomination. You can put your house on BOD getting it this year though. no matter what happens his names on the trophy.
@AdamR2468 is right, which is why you can still hammer a guy if he's not fully in control of the ball (e.g. if he's bobbling it on his fingertips). #11 should've been penalised. On the other hand, it's one of those things that takes everyone, including the ref, by surprise, so kudos for trying it and getting away with it.
Is Trimble fit again? Also had heard Murphy was called into the squad as Kearney is out, he might do on the wing also. Definitely think Best is in for Flannery, bad news for our line-outs that.
its called crossing if thats what your saying. The ball wasn't in his possession during the crossing so technically it cant be counted as crossing. It was more of a skip pass to himself
Apart from maybe the six nations this year which is harder to win because there are four world class teams in it.And Ireland are ranked fourth inthe world
Technically it's only forward IF the ball a) touches the ground b) touches the opposition or c) touches another player on your team. If you want you can chuck the ball forward as far as you want, just as long as it touches NOTHING but yourself and you catch it. It's perfectly legal just very hard to do and very controversial. But it's legal.
The way I see it, he did a mini miss pass to himself. sure that fooled the defence but he fooled his own #11 in the process. And it is very arguable that it was forward. It looks like he tosses the pass just before the line then catches it at the line. My point is that O'Driscoll is a fine player but there are many other plays that he's done that deserve more credit!
Kaino, Jerome- American Samoa/ Franks, Ben John - Australia/ Rokocoko,Sivivatu - Fiji / Muliaina, Schwalger, So'oialo,Toeava,- Samoa / Lauaki, - Tonga. Did I leave anyone out? Do these count as islanders? 10 all-blacks and that's just in recent years. I may have been off with player numbers but here I would say you stand corrected
@PhilTheDrummist he did not pass it to himself. by definition, a pass must be to someone else. what he did was release the ball, and catch it before it touched the ground. the question is, can he throw it forwards and catch it? if you a running with the ball, fumble it, but grab hold straight away, then this is OK... why would this 'exagerated intentional fumble' be any different?
wasn't forward, wasn't obstruction and certainly wasn't called. they ran back to line up the defence for the lineout. It's no more obstruction than a skip pass would be. As he's running up the line the ref is following the play, and you can tell by the commentator that nothing was blown. I think Carter pulled the same move and if I'm not wrong Campese too
@duncandohnut1993 no, because no one was in posession of the ball, so there can't be an obstruction and when o'driscoll caught the ball there was no teammate in front of him so no obstruction there as well
@Renato4004 Correct me if I'm wrong but I assume that football players would have been told to do whatever play they're doing by their coaches in one of the million time-outs you guys have instead of thinking for themselves when situations arises. Not trying to be condescending or anything but that seems like the main diff to me--that is if you mean American football and not football/soccer.
No honestly, when i 1st saw this I thought, 'these are the stunts u pull when you're 30 pts up'. None the less me thinks O'Driscoll's the best centre of his time. Brilliant. Sorry Tana.
@radium01 I mean that in the laws it states a penalty try should be awarded if the ball is intentionally knocked on, therefore my point is for team A to be awarded a penalty try team B would have to knock the ball 'down' intentionally as a player from Team A passes to another team A player..... hence why i said that law is a reference to a defending infringement
oh come on you have got to be kidding did you see the lions tour, the grand slam, O' Driscall is one of the best centres ever to have played the game not just in this era, also check out his tries on the lions tour to Australia!, he's prob gonna get world player of the year this year!
well irish people enjoy him while u can as u were unbelievably lucky to have a player of his caliber.. it will probably never happen again in ireland... but yes hes a great player who could play in the all black team easily...
@92Knife It couldn't have been backwards. His running had a forward component, and threw it and caught it in roughly the same position relative to his body. Ergo, he must have thrown it forwards.
Scotland and Rugby are toast.. they have been in decline for 15 years. Ireland are the growing force, the numbers who play Rugby have accelarated (its still 4th choice sport) but over 10 years the interest has grown, O'Driscoll is a big reason for that.
@Vanu7 thanks man, i think we have you's in our group in the world cup? I hope ye's do well, Robbie has a good squad lined up its gonna be tough for Ireland.
oh and to anyone that says it was forward pass it wasnt cause one he didnt pass. And two he didnt throw it over the opponents. Think as is he fumbled it forward and caught it before it hit the ground. Would that be a forward pass?
@ConorBrr the reason players go to the northern hemisphere is thats where the big money is, you'll find a lot of players at the tail end of their careers or players that put money before playing for the all blacks make the trip, there's also the guys who can,t make the top sides over here but are top players in the northern hemisphere,
In my opinion it's not strictly illegal, it's technically just a cut out pass to himself, the player he cut out just happened to be tackled. It would be the same as if he just dummied the pass and ran round anyway. Besides, he didn't achieve much with it.. Innovative play, but he is by no stretch of the imagination, the best centre in the world lol..
Rugby is the 4th most popular sport in a country of 5 and a half million people. Rugby has only started getting popular here since the millennium. 07 we were crap we'll admit that but in 2011 we're going to win our pool and you aussies will be fighting it out for 2nd place with Italy.
Thats genius. Such a pity about the Lions and him getting injured at a crucial time in that 2nd test. He probably has 1 more world cup left in him though.
I didn't affirmate that he really was "THE BEST" center of the world. If you read carefully, you would see I wrote "one of the best" which is different. I didn't talk about "genius", or maybe I would have to buy glasses (even if my eyes don't need to). Rugby is a sport, and an art. I'm always happy to watch some new crazy moves even if "the possession was lost" (seriously, i don't care of that, I think there is things more important in the world). Fun and Show. That's why I love sport.
12.1 (e) of the IRB laws of rugby states: (e) Intentional knock or throw forward. A player must not intentionally knock the ball forward with hand or arm, nor throw forward. Sanction: Penalty kick. A penalty try must be awarded if the offence prevents a try that would probably otherwise have been scored. Thus, this moment of 'genius' was illegal, regardless of what the ref on the pitch decided.
Ali74 Not a redundant point at all. I take it you stand corrected Ireland didn't even make the 1/4 finals beaten by argentina in the most boring game of the tourny, Bod didn't even fire a shot. As for France, they can be brilliant one day and dreadful the next. Anyone who knows anything about rugby could tell you that.
