(@Josh23761) So true, I am half Irish/British and visit my Irish family quite a lot, I can say that the "fast" bit of what you said is true. But, that is just because she is Irish; Trust. 😂😂🇬🇧/🇨🇮
actually he is not only a clown but also typically prejudiced. this pilot's attitude defines the historic relation between the english and the irish. in general english believe they are superior. having said so, the irish atc acted in a typical distinguished, eloquent and professional way.
I absolutely LOVE how all the other pilots, immediately on hearing Captain Tool's idiocy, became super-polite and complimentary and passive-aggressive. Great stuff.
That's kinda how it works. Mutual respect. Even if she messed up (I don't believe she did) you just deal with it. Like an adult. Go file the safety report if you wish.
LOL.. it must be a psychological thing, they all suddenly became patient and cooperative as well as pro ATC
3 года назад
Very unprofessional, actually. Tying up an already very busy frequency with irrelevant and inappropriate comments - they should all be reprimanded as should the BA pilot for engaging in an argument that should have been dealt with later. So many ignorant, arm-chair-know-it-alls on RU-vid comments........
I remember there was a controller at SFO , bay area and he would crack jokes. Example, Aztec 47P traffic 11 o clock, Northwest bound, probably John McEnroe in a 152 Hilarious
As someone whos played over 2.5 years on flight simulator I concur with you - hopefully if the shit hits the fan in my virtual flight fantasy world she'll be ther..............ahh who am I kidding - I'm fed up with living in my Grannys basement.
@@philmontejano5971 Theres a controller in Concord North Carolina (KJQF) who will sing you your clearance and instructions, he's awesome! Love going in and out of that place just for that!
+Jeremy Smith Nope, not to contain. She had previously advised that no further freq would be devoted to that convo, so the acknowledgment was a courteous shut down "...moving on and Fuck you very much" so to speak. :)
Deirdre McNamara She did try to contact him but he wasn't replying or responding. What else can she do? Run out and knock on the cockpit window and tell the pilot?
Just as an aside, as a thought-experiment, if you will: Assuming the ATC response was what people seem to think it should have been, ie. "Oh My God, I'm so sorry. That was a terrible mistake. Please give me another chance and please don't make my life difficult or potentially get me fired. Puhleeeease!" Is there ANY aviator out there, whatever Nationality, whatever Gender, who would then be comfortable taking any further instruction from that whiney, unsure, error-prone controller, begging for forgiveness? Just curious. (* I know I stepped into a US/THEM, National Pride whatever debate here, but I have no skin in the game, so it's mostly just amusing from my side)
D. Mark Detrixhe Ha, thanks. That's what I was hoping to hear! Even a bad pushback has further checks and balances to prevent disaster, which the pilot actually demonstrates happened by saying they were busy with the ground guys. And all said and done, it WAS a uniquely stressful time-frame for various reasons. Surely any competent aviator in the queue is going to be aware of this and compensate accordingly? If not, they perhaps need to find another job. I think most of the replies here are some weird "us versus them" point-scoring tango, that I don't understand as a foreigner. Thanks for the reply :)
I love that the other pilots, understanding the business (and dealing with it also) kept complimenting the controller on frequency. Captain Jerk knew he stood alone in his assessment and complaints.
considering that she told him much later than GC had and the fact an Air Lingus plane was behind him he had no where to go, sounds like a bit of preferential treatment to Irish Airlines, bit like the Spanish do frequently.
@@edwardashton7502 She was contacting him to notify him, but his line was out of reach (pilot was talking to other crew) and it was apparently somebody else's job to tell him So it was his fault and was in no position to file complaint and get angry to the ATC.
I agree completely. Captain Jerk would know without a shadow of a doubt that all the other pilots have had the same earful. He would also know the person he complains to will also listen to this recording.... I love how the others all complemented the ATC. Good stuff folks
@@trintygamesandrobloxandmor128 Actually, "tool" is a pretty old one in English. Tools in past were plain and crude. It's still used in situations where you can't afford to call the other idiot, because you have to maintain professionalism.
coolbrounderscore not really. The pilot didn’t get her calls about it so it’s not really anyone’s fault but he still didn’t need to act all confrontational.
This is WAY less professional than the BA pilot. 1) He totally SHOULD put in a safety report. 2) you should never denigrate someone for putting in a safety report 3) It's polite to notify someone that you're putting one in, so the counterpart knows to put one in, so they don't get in trouble for NOT putting one in... This guy was just doing his job. the DICKHEAD was the ATR not listening out.
basically, a bunch of planes were on the ground, and the british airways pilot was upset that his plane wasn't given right of way off the runway to be taxi'd back. The ATC was busy and was basically cuing a bunch of planes to get back to being taxi'd and cued the BA flight, which pissed him off
You have no idea what's happening? Thats ok. But we applaud your honesty at not being a very perceptive person. Other people, might hide that fact. But you, are the sort of person who, inexplicably....calls attention to their shortcomings. Way to go! "A" for honesty.. ..."F" for intellect.
He wasn't upset that he wasn't given right of way, he was annoyed that he wasn't informed of the change in plans due to miscommunication between him and the controller. They both should have handled it better.
I don't know if she actually told the tool or not but she handled it quite professionally. If it was Kennedy Steve, he would have told him to blow it out his ass.
@ It's like hockey. The rules are the rules, but when one player is playing mean you've got to bring in the enforcers and start a fight. Mean players stay mean for as long as they can get away with it.
They should have kept their nose out of it. They were only exacerbating a minor disagreement. Focus on their own aircraft. Clowns. "Good girl" - would ya ever fcuk off
It's amazing to me how they keep all their information straight: they hear it, repeat it exactly. Everything is said so quickly and only once. I'd have a difficult time keeping all that straight!
Actually, it's not quite as hard as most people think, because Control and the Cockpit already know what the other is going to advise 90% of the time, and the "lingo" that you are having to take a long time to try and translate in your head, is the language they speak. To you, when you hear the word Lima.......you get a picture in your mind that looks like....LIMA........but it's not.....it's "L"...and that's all. Foxtrot....just a plain old F. Usually the only real things you need to remember are the changes, but not the predictable courses and headings control will put on. But the reason why it's such an abbreviated lingo, is for the rapid transfer of potentially larger and more immediate transfer of information....ie.....emergencies.
Mike Mac And that's a very BIG deal that the real pro's know how to do. If you have any stress, panic, desperation, confusion, or just plain fright in your voice......you're gonna rattle the crew, then they start to raise their panic level, which makes the tower do the same, and so on, and so on, and before you know it.......everyone is to fucked up to properly do their job............ergo......passenger jet screws itself into the ground like a lawn dart!.
Cody38Super I get it. Worked race control for bikes and cars (race track). Keep calm and focused. Granted I was only working in two dimensions, but relied on the radio net to picture what was going on. Some tracks so big, a repeater was used to keep in communication with all stations. Kudos to anyone that has a headset on and maintains calm like this.
The Irish guys backing up their girl with passive aggressive chirps like “shoulda pushed out quicker” and “TOOL” while complimenting her and letting the BA pilot know that he can die on his hill. Solid gold.
This job seems like hell on earth. I got stressed out listening to 3 MINUTES of it. These people have some skills to be able to handle this all day long
I once had the privilege of watching air controllers live, and this was some years ago. Even then I marveled at their ability to juggle aircraft. Those folks retired at 55 because the job was extremely stressful and demanding. I don't know if that is still the case today.
@@Athaeus The BA pilot specifically tried to waive the culpability of Aer Lingus by saying "oh so it's his fault then?" Sarcastically, implying that it was her fault. The guy called him a tool because it was his fault, but the pilot was getting mad at the ATC
@@Athaeus I think he very much knew that he was very much aware that he was at fault, but called him a tool because he was rude to the ATC lady, who did nothing wrong.
Lol!!!! His ego alone would could t for half load fully boarded!!! F.W V rude. ATC do a super stressful job. He got outback in his box! Fair play to other pilots. She was doing her job at full capacity n I'm sure all going fine until EGO stuck his "little" oar in. Great job by ATC! Keeping it all cool...👍👍👍👍👍 v impressed. I know what job entails as friend in this n its STRESSFUL. Only certain ppl actually can do this work. V v specific criteria n many either lose their place mid training or drop out. Nerves if steel &a very SHARP brain to name just two requirements..... .
It's a safety issue, had he followed her instructions there would have been a collision. Of course he would file the safety report. It's common courtesy to inform other parties you are going to file one, so they can too, as you WILL be reprimanded for not filing one if, like here, there was a real possibility of traffic conflict, and someone else has.
@@karlosbricks2413 She told Aer Lingus to give way to the Speedbird for push back but Aer Lingus decided to keep going and ended up in the way. It would not have been her fault if there was a collision. Not to mention, ground crew does the pushback and they are obviously not going to steer a parked aircraft backwards into another aircraft behind it. They are on the ground, they can see both aircraft.
@@karlosbricks2413 That's fine but you made it sound like she would have been at fault and I'm sick of it because, yes, fault IS relevant and it would not have been hers. Go watch a drunk Harrison Ford land on a taxiway and get out of here with "fault is irrelevant"
Not sure why you’d get into a fight with the person controlling the flow of traffic. If you throw them off their game, they might make a mistake! Better to pep them up than put them down.
@ I am used to transcribing such exchanges but it takes a while to understand the context, when none is given. But on replaying this conversation, with many other planes, I didn't get the idea that the BA pilot said he would report a safety report. He never stated he would file a report againt the ATC, but at that time, my general understanding was that she had a very heavy workload that day. We also don't know WHY there was an busy day, whether this ATCo was overloaded because it was the start or end of her shift.
Basically Irish pilots were laughing at a British Pilots mistake. He then took offence to it and decided that he should report the ground control for not telling him what to do, when they were trying to tell him but he got distracted and never heard their call.
+PeacemanNOT I didn't hear a mistake by the BA pilot.... The only people who should be praised are the vigilant ground crew who didn't commence push black of the BA plane which would have resulted in a Collision with the air lingus plane. I see it as the controller's mistake....you only give clearance to punch back if the area is clear an will remain so. Obviously other factors may come into players I. E lack of staff and a busy period. There was no attempt to contact the BA pilot that I could here on that frequency. If fact it sounded like the BA crew tried to speak with ATC but it was interrupted by ATC transmission.
alan jackson Sorry mate... you're just butthurt Ireland is better. Better football fans... part of the EU... friendlier, even when we have the stereotype of being angry drunkards.
The speed and complexity of this information exchange is a testament to the amazing adaptability of the human brain, and the extraordinary skill of this traffic controller.
What the hell was wrong with that guy? I can't see how there was a safety issue at all - as far as I can see he was just pissed off because the shamrock got the push before him. What an idiot for holding her on frequency at such a busy time, just to make a point. I thought she handled it brilliantly.
Yea like she has like 20 planes to deal with >.< like wtf. She is doing what she can. She is only human >.> tbh at least someone told you rather is was ground crew or not. But don’t yell at the lady who can ground your flight >.
Paul Garrett sounds like instead of just worrying about yourself (because thats what pilots do), maybe you should climb out of the cockpit, and climb in the tower. Give that a shot eh 😎😎😎
There was a time when BA pilots were known for their impeccable professionalism. Arguing on freq is just inappropriate, especially when it's so busy. Conduct a safe operation first, and then, if necessary, deal with the non-emergency, currently resolved problem when the operation is complete. Never take it personally. These guys know better.
Um, the comment "You should of told us that already" sounds like arguing to me. But I agree BA crews have lost their polish and now are more tarnished than anything. You see it in the way jets are cleaned, maintained and flight crews respond on long haul even to passengers in Business or First Class. Almost like the crews don't give a bit of concern for anything they do. I heard someone refer to their planes as speedturd
1:49 “..and I’m just too busy to continue any further conversation about this on frequency!” ATC Lady handled herself very well with the cranky British pilot. Loved the other pilot comments, “Tool!”
@@Jorn41 she wasn't arguing and instead trying to get clearance or something along those lines so she could take off, either you're slow or a troll. go touch grass.
That's 1 of the reasons why you have a pilot & a co-pilot ~ So that 1 of them can communicate with Ground Control while the other can keep their ears open for any additional communications from the Air Traffic Control Tower... ~ Captain Tool needed an attitude adjustment!!
Or in case of them is an idiot or is drunk, like the Delta pilot who got kicked off his fully boarded flight. No worries, he can claim he has a "disease " and return to work probably
Usually those things backfire on the pilot. The controller is from now on being used as an example of emotional control and focus while the pilot is being considered just plain rude and unprofessional.
@@xx294 how did you know she got reprimanded? These things are shortened and not a complete picture of what happened. What happened clearly here was that we have an extremely rude pilot!
@@xx294 So don't reply, I am not forcing you to. He was clearly testy and short with her. Being petty and nattering back and forth about what she should have done? It is unnecessary and a waste of time.
+Dublin Aviation Yes, I agree. Some are upset with "pilot banter" but I tried to say it eases tension. Taxi at PHX one afternoon with maybe 15 planes in line for takeoff. no id: "Delta 123 come up fingers". no reply no id: "Hey Delta 123 the 727, come up fingers" grd ATC: "uh, Delta 123 I think someone wants to talk to you on 123.45" (fingers) Delta: "Be advised delta professionals do not do such" ATC grd: "uh, whoever wants Delta, just go ahead" TWA "Yeah thanks ground. This is TWA 123. You want to tell those Delta professionals that their forward access door is open and hitting when they brake" ATC grd: "Delta 123 TWA ....reads it to them word for word... no response. ATC grd :"Delta 123, state your intentions" (laughter in background) Delta: "um, uh. . .we would like to return to the gate" ATC grd: Roger Delta, just pull to the side at the end and I'll get to you, and say thank you" Delta: "Roger, we'll pull over up here" (no thank you, no id) Someone keys their Mic and says, "Thank you TWA" Each aircraft in line repeats this in sequence with no id. Everyone's laughing. Wish I had a copy of that tape. TWA kind of dates it though. That hellhole door was messed up too. They had to have heard it. but. ..
Besides the fact that there is a long history of the British thinking they are better than everyone else, multiply that by 10 fold for the way they treat the Irish
Tom Rogers don’t be self righteous. You guys do the same thing with the US. It doesn’t need to be pointed out that the people I’m referring to are the ones who deserve it.
how exactly? the frequency seemed to be all blocked to me, and I couldn't hear any of the warnings he apparently missed, any timestamp you can give me?
@@karlosbricks2413 It was not the pilots fault. Another bird should've let him out first, but they failed to comply with atc instructions. It is neither the fault of the butthurt pilot nor the fault of the controller.
I'm taking that "I'm filing a safety report" as similar to someone in a Facebook group announcing that they're disgusted with the group and leaving it. Bye, Felicia.
@@dalethelander3781 No. Air traffic safety is actually taken seriously. Filing a safety report for something like this is actually the right thing to do, and notifying the ATC of it is a courtesy. It sounds like it was the Aer Lingus that went out of order, causing a hazard, and the ATC warnings about it to the British Airways pilots weren't heard because the frequency was overloaded. Those are all things that would need to be addressed for the sake of passenger safety. Safety reports aren't there to blame someone, they're there to minimise the risk of accidents in aviation.
i know a fair amount about this, as I want to be a pilot and start training in about a year, but it is easier for people to understand when you have the words on the screen to read along with.
Played this for former head of ATC, who had two observations. Firstly, the amount of planes she was dealing with was unusually high but she did remain very calm and professional. Secondly, there are two British Airways pilots. Both of them should not have been communicating with ground crew; one should have been on frequency to take direction from ATC. The actual safety issue is one of negligence on behalf of the BA crew, failure to adhere to comms protocol.
Calm and professional BUT missed out an important instruction to the BAW pilot. If ATC ground was that busy then maybe the controller shouldn't have pushed back so many aircraft in close proximity at once. And where was delivery/planner controller.
Many comments here forget that this was the busiest day of the year and the ATC had 15 aircraft to deal with at once. Personally I would have found that very difficult to deal with, and even if she was at fault (which I don't think she is) credit has to be given to her for having so many different situations to manage on the go. The BA pilot should have been more understanding. He has one plane to deal with which is a difficult enough job, she had 15.
Just posted about the possibility of her being overwhelmed, but she made a serious error. She is at fault, but instead of apologizing she tried to throw it back on the BA pilot. If he had not used initiative and checked with ground staff, he and the Delta could be winging their way to Heaven. An American pilot might have read her in some pretty colorful terms, and justifiably, but BA was courteous and cool. If she apologized that would be the last of it. I wouldn't want her job, but in my experience too many Irish women in positions of authority feel licensed to be extremely rude and unprofessional and never apologize. One witch at the Malahide Library some years ago, literally erased a play that I had written for the RTE Radio Playwrighting contest, because she wanted to go to lunch! Didn't need any calories by the looks of her.
People can make mistakes, the BA pilot I'm sure would have been noble about it, but her attitude is DANGEROUS! Make a mistake, own to it and correct the fundamental situation.
If that were my aim, alan scott, I'd write a book - or five! Seriously, Irish people are not all bigots like you, but there is a low esteem element that still blames Britain for Ireland's current woes, and takes any chance you can to throw bricks at the Brits - and this is one of them. Objectively speaking, ATC goofed up in a difficult situation; BA saved the day, but was understandably not happy that he and his passengers were put at risk, but was still polite, and was correct to file a report. If DA is that busy, they may need extra staff. Not my favorite airport, had horrid experiences there last touchdown. Love Shannon. Best in the world.
You've absolutely nothing to be embarrassed about. The attitude of one plonker is not a reflection of a good airline. I'm sure he'll get a bit of a dressing down back at base.
@Johnny Threebollocks sorry remind me, how many aircraft and souls has BA lost and how many have Aer Lingus or Ryanair? Which of the 3 airlines flies to EU regulations which allows suicidal pilots crash their plan and which 2 operate the FAA sterile cockpit and no man left alone policies, BA arent looking so 1st rate now, also the BA pilot admits to 'not listening to atc frequency because talking to ground crew', the BA pilot admits to not listening to the one radio channel they must always be listening to while in a cockpit!
The biggest air-crash in history was caused by an impatient arrogant captain. The Grace of God is in Courtesy. Well done ATC a credit to Irish professionalism and skill.
Thank you William I could not remember the details but had a vague recollection. It shows how awful arrogance can be when it drives someone in control of an aircraft to act impulsively.
One thing that sure is that Irish pilots(or pilots trained in Ireland) do not fear landing in crosswinds, unless they are gust of over 40+ knots, they stay calm and put the plane down like as if there was no wind, I'm going to begin my pilot training in Dublin(or Cork) after I finish my secondary school, currently in 5th year.. A little bit more
Good luck with that, Captain Happy. He said that he received the same information from the ground at the same time she was trying to radio him. So if he got the information he needed, from ANY source, what foul was committed that could be considered unsafe? The only safety issue I see here is a pilot with an attitude problem distracting an already overloaded ground controller. Whenever I hear a pilot act like this with ATC, I assume it's because he lost an argument with his wife that morning...and you can see why he lost the argument.
He was CLEARED to push back. If the ground crew had done just that they would have crashed into the Aer Lingus passing behind them: Turns out it wasn't clear after all. That's dangerous and the controllers fault.
Just before we all hang the BA guy out to dry here (no sides taken).... Correct me if I'm wrong - ATC cleared the Speedbird to push 'point C' AFTER the Ryanair 737 passes behind and told the Stobart (Aer Lingus) to hold position. ATC then cleared the Stobart (Aer Lingus) to push to point B after the Ryanair parked then suddenly remembers to caution Stobart of the BA aircraft pushing to point C. BA then interrupts the transmission stating they have stopped the push due to the Stobart (Aer Lingus) being in the way. The ATC response is now to give way to the Stobart then continue push - not what the original clearance was. ATC also said she was trying to contact him on frequency?! We didn't hear that bit and I can only assume this sound clip was shortened? Either way ATC cocked up the original clearance, Speedbird should have been listening (if indeed she did try to contact him which there is no evidence of) and thirdly the manner in which Speedbird had a grievance was unprofessional but what about all the local pilots calling them a tool - not exactly professional either. In summary, disorganised ramp congestion which to all those who aren't local crew operating in and out of this airport will probably agree is all too familiar. Ryanair have had a few wing tip strikes here recently so there's clearly an issue at this airport. Cheers.
There is a bit missing here. BA is cleared to push after the RYR passes and the stobart is to wait until BA has pushed however after the RYR parked the BA sat on stand and didn't move....as a result the stobart was cleared to push and atc told the BA to wait however BA missed this as they were not listening on ground frequency. You can hear the stobart captain telling them to push quicker in future. The clip cuts out atc calling the BA to hold.
I hear a "trying to call you" but no actual call to BA81D stopping the push-back. Has the "tape" been edited? I do hear some childish & unprofessional comments by others who should know better.
It seems quite clear that other professional aviators (other pilots) took the same view as most of us listening, the controller was doing a good job. This behaviour from BA pilot seemed completely unnecessary and highly unprofessional. I may be missing something but it was clear from 30secs that they had been informed about being pushed back to 'charlie' It was very helpful to have the transcription.
They were Irish. Don't you get the Brit bashing tone here? It's ethnic, nothing to do with the actual situation where Ms.ATC made a serious error and BA pilot saved several hundred lives by going around her and checking with ground crews!
@bananamanuk TBP HYMAR. Pilots and air traffic controllers are almost exclusively professionals and seek to operate safely. don't turn this incident into something that it is not. When you are pushing back an aircraft if there is a aircraft pushing back at another adjacent gate then the controller normally would advise the Cockpit crew so that they can avoid a collision. I am sure that all those other Professional Aviators [ using your own words ] would require the same consideration if they were pushing back from the gate.
controllers are very busy and handle multiple aircraft at the same time, so sometimes they may intend to do something immediately but may have to defer that action to deal with a more immediate situation. there is no bad intent here and the airline industry normally evaluates these incidents to improve safety, so its not unusual to do a report in such an incident.
@Sean O'Nilbud Great example of sexual harassment of a female who you disagree with. We are all working hard to change that dynamic and realize that those comments are inappropriate and degrading.
Had a long career on the operations side. One time I was riding brakes in the cockpit of a DC-10 under tow to remote parking. Approaching the taxiway I noticed a line of 5 Southwest Airlines planes approaching. Queried the tower if I should hold short. Answer: "Negative, I want you to pull right out in front of them". Our tow rate was no better than 5 knots for one mile. I can only assume Southwest had pissed off the ground controller and he sent a message. LOL.
Tony Skywalker listen write down one pilot is taxing the plane while the other is communicating pilots will write the stuff down so it’s easier to repeat
BoZzie Not always the case. Usually you know what the ATC is going to say before they say it so it’s more just making that’s what’s happening. Taxing instructions can get a bit complicated but if you know the layout of the taxiways then it makes it a bit easier. But about 60-70% of the calls are just confirming what you already know and either go one of two ways. You get what your expecting or they tell you that’s not going to happen then you need to open your ears. But most good pilots can listen whilst doing other things at the same time and read back no problem.
Really once you understand some basic things, ATC conversations are pretty straightforward. It varies by governing body (I'm pretty sure the FAA doesn't require a push and start, and we don't call then stands but rather gates) but the brunt of the terminology is universal. You can learn a lot from playing FSX, and I've learned even more from watching airforceproud95 😂 those are two great resources for this kind of stuff
@@djm.6322 It is pretty standard. If you just listen to some conversations you can pick it up easily. I also fly about 20 hours a week on FSX. You can even get "real" ATC with FSX Add ons like VoxATC and ProATC. You can file VFR and IFR flight plans with these add ons and there are actual human controllers who will berate you if you don't use proper radio discipline. You can also just listen in on some of them if you want to pick up the lingo.
And the first question BA are going to ask the pilots is why one of them wasn't listening out for ATC instructions while the other was talking to the ground staff?
DSLeicester Planes land and take off at Dublin everyone 75 seconds. I’m pretty sure she was actually busy. And technically it was the pilot’s fault. He should’ve been waiting for the ATC instead of radioing the ground crew. The info from the GC may have been incorrect and could’ve caused more problems or even an accident. Good things come to those who wait. He should’ve just been patient.
There's only one rude person on that call, and it is the air traffic controller. The BA pilot just pointed out the confusion with no anger in his voice at all. He says calmly "you should have told us that before really" Her response was "I was trying to call you, you weren't listening out..." How does she know he "wasn't listening"? That is what is rude and annoys the BA pilot. Her tone is also of annoyance rather than calmness, and it is this comment which turns this sour.
Wrong Dr Meat. Look at the Airport Charts, Airport Specific 1.6. Taxi Procedures: "ATC may require ACFT to manoeuvre in close proximity to other ACFT. Avoidance of other ACFT is the responsibility of flight crew involved. If doubt exists as to whether an ACFT can be passed safely, flight crew should STOP, advise ATC, and request alternative instructions if available." That's the rules BA skipped when he should have read.
The person making this comment was a tool, if my FO/ Captain said that over the radio I'd think twice about flying with someone who thinks putting in a safety report is bitchy. It's not, it's part of the job description, and letting the other parties know is a courtesy.
@@DreamFreeFPV that BA pilot was violating protocol though, wasn't he? I mean, he tied up the frequency arguing with the ground controller after the almost, sort of, not really, "incident" with another aircraft who misunderstood the controllers instruction. The controller even, politely, had to cut him off and say that she is really far too busy to be arguing with him about who was at fault. Now, I'm not a pilot (medical disqual), but I'm something of an aviation buff, and my understanding is that the conversation should have been the pilot advising ground of the possible situation, ground confirming and explaining that the other aircraft had misunderstood her instructions, and then the BA pilot informing her he was going to file a safety report. Instead, you get this incredibly rude, sarcastic, and, worst of all, non-aviation related "Oh so it's his fault?" comment that is, in my interpretation, completely uncalled for, and intended to do nothing more than antagonize a possibly overworked controller. It's also telling that it's only /after/ the pilot of BAW81D hears the other pilots on frequency laughing at him that he informs ground of his intention to file a safety report. Is it within his right? Yes. Do I think he's doing it in retaliation for being embarrassed in front of the other pilots? Without a doubt. Is it a reportable incident? Maybe. I'm not familiar enough with the Irish regs to tell you, nor can we tell how close the two aircraft got. Was the pilot intentionally antagonizing and belittling the ground controller? I definitely think so, and I find his behavior to be incredibly unprofessional. The unnamed pilot was absolutely correct, this BA pilot was being an absolutely tool. From listening to this exchange, he was using the safety reporting system to get back at a controller who he felt had embarrassed him,and by doing so was undermining the effectiveness of that reporting system.
Anyone got an e-mail address for Willie Walsh? I'd send him this. I doubt he'd be impressed with this idiot! She was brilliant, and wasn't rattled by him.
I was scrolling through the comments looking for the first tool who would make this about Britain/Ireland - and it was you congrats. It’s not about countries - it’s about arseholes.
Nope - wrong again - things are tense between arseholes. I can guarantee that 99.999999% of people from both countries can happily spend time drinking and watching the football together without even a hint of bad feeling.
Approach can be even worse, believe me, as their are many different dialects which need practice to understand, Local (Tower )control can vary, accents take a while to get used to but aren't impossible)in addition the TOWER controller also has the Safety Aspects, plus Push Back traffic Plus re-fueling,Safety and some areas, even Customs & Excise. Variety is the name of the game.
Controllers [ in my humble opinion ] make very few errors, but I am sure that there is some embarrassment for Pilots to admit the occasions that a controller saved their A$$.
I'm involved in a very different kind of dispatch. However, the lady on ATC was amazing and doing a very demanding job. Shout out to those pilots who were being supportive. Captain Tool could do with some lessons in how to show proper respect.
We are being invited to pillory the BA pilot here but I don't think there's enough information to justify doing that. Also one would need to be knowledgeable about aviation protocols to make an informed judgment. But of course that doesn't stop people - most of whom presumably are uninformed about such protocols - from queuing up to have a go at the pilot. Not nice.
I was listening to this from the article on breaking news earlier on!! I totally love this channel massive fan of aviation and I live 5 mins from dub airport I'm always watching them land and take off! A sub and a like for you good sir!
+TJ Wykes I can't say I have!! I know a guy who's dad was an air traffic controller for Shannon though that's about as close as it gets haha... I do listen to it though sometimes on live atc if I can't sleep in the am, as all the transatlantic flights are passing in the wee hours 😉
That's what professionals do. When someone tells me "I'm going to file a complaint about you" (or something to that effect), I always answer with "Thank you. We always look forward to learn from our mistakes. Here is the card of my captain and his number." Takes the wind right out of their sails most of the time - and if they have a genuine complaint and aren't just venting, then it is actually worth to look into it. Maybe I did something wrong and they are just bad at explaining the problem...
I've always thought of speedbird pilots as being the most professional and competent, but I suppose there's always one. I hope he filed his report and everything was looked into, just to show what a total rectum he was and put it on the record.
Aer Lingus STK96L were the ones at fault and total pricks. BA got too defensive but not extremely rude at all. On the other hand "Good Girl", "Tool!" That's just unprofessional.
If you read the below you'll see that the BA pilot was not at fault. Also, a place full of aeroplanes with the lives of hundreds of people at risk is hardly the place to be having 'fun' although I don't expect a degenerate like you to understand that. "Basically, Speedbird was given clearance to push back after RyanAir 737 passed behind them. Ground then told Stobart 96pl ( Air Lingus) to stand by for further instruction after they had called for clearance to push. Stobart 96 pl was then informed RyanAir 737 was parking on stand 125 behind them and could then push back. So Speedbird started to push back and and then Stobart 96 pl also started to push back. So what actually went right was that speedbirds ground crew halted the push as stobart 96 pl was creating a hazard for them. What went wrong was that Stobarts 96pl ground crew prematurely pushed. Also Ground did not try to notify speedbird of the conflict that was going to happen. What ground did was try and inform stobart 96pl of speedbirds push. Where the unprofessional comments started is when stobart 96pl said to speedbird they should've pushed off gate quicker. When they were clearly in the wrong. Ground and tower make mistakes and what they will never do is admit to their mistakes. Otherwise they could face reviews and/or suspension depending on severity. Even when called out on it. Good thing that all ATC communication is recorded and the tapes can always be pulled to review. Speedbird is in the right to file his safety report. Now I am not bashing tower as they have a difficult job and can be very busy, at times maxed. That's when mistakes will happen. Everyone just needs to be aware. Pilots also need to curb their ego, the ones that were mocking speedbird would have done the same thing if it had happened to them."
We're on RU-vid. We can confidently ascertain that almost none of the people in this comment section are trained in the aviation industry. At least I hope as much. Otherwise I'd be concerned that people are angry at the _one pilot_ who brought up the safety hazard, and cheer for the people cluttering the frequency with unprofessional name-calling, mocking laughter and bashing of a pilot that places safety first.
Let me explain : The law states that planes in an offside position, when the runway is being landed on by another plane, may not actively approach the runway. A plane is in an offside position if any of the body parts with which it can touch the runway during any other part of the landing is in another's plane's half of the runway and closer to the other plane's landing line than both the runway and the second-to-last plane (usually, but not necessarily always, the last plane in front of the landing tower). Being in an offside position is not an offence in itself; at the moment the plane is landed by the copilot, the plane must also be "actively supervised by the pilot" in the opinion of the controller, in order for an offence not to occur.] When the offside offence occurs, the controller stops the flight and awards the takeoff to the next plane from the position of the offending plane. The offside offence is neither a foul nor a misconduct, planes are never booked or sent off for offside. Like fouls, however, any flight that occurs after an offence has taken place but before the controller is able to stop the flight is nullified. Planes that continue such a flight may be booked based on the controller's assessment of how significant or intentional the flight was and that's basically it.
In a nutshell, the British Airways was taking his sweet time getting pushed back. Meantime another aircraft pushed back. The controller tried to tell the BA pilot to hold, but he was busy yucking it up and not listening to the radio. There are two pilots, so there is no excuse for that.
I'm not a fan of BA or the British people en general, but I do agree with the BA pilot. If he thinks safety was compromised he must fill out a safety report. The other guys on frequency should just mind their own business and stop being unprofessional on the radios.... Probably the same guys that spam and burp on 121.5....
Well you know how easy it is to miss a radio call during pushback when you are talking to the ground crew and also doing whatever callouts your SOP may have, especially if you don't expect any call and the frequency is busy. I do agree that he shouldn't have created so much drama on the frequency, especially given the congestion. I definitely do not agree at all with the really unprofessional comments made by others on the radio... This is a serious job, or at least it used to be.
What message from ATC on this tape didn't 81D listen to? Do you hear anything in this video warning the BA crew that there is an Aer Lingus passing behind and pushing back wasn't clear at all, it was down right dangerous.
@@ThorsteinKlingenberg She expected 81D to have been monitoring the freq and heard her warning to Stobart and understood the situation. The other pilots on freq clearly did. But yeah, she didn't repeat the warning to 81D and she didn't really give clear instructions. Just a kinda work it out among yourselves. Which isn't a great practice for a Ground Controller.
@@Sphere723 It's a great practice to create an accident. The 81D was given clearance, first, and with no limitations. They had no expectations of anything being in their way.
Even the EI pilot who was supposed to give way to BA (I'm sure a simple case of human error as a result of the busiest day of the year) said "good girl". The BA pilot just didn't like his pride dented. He _had_ to make sure she knew it was "her fault" and how dare she answer him back with logic or fact. She wasn't taking any shit, her professionalism never wavered. You go girl!
Way to work those identity pronouns! I, for one, demand to know the flight attendants' opinion on the matter. As well as the guy who cleans the shitters in the terminal building. Otherwise it's just a bunch of rich white people talking and I instinctively tune that out, yo.
In my opinion, you have to sepperate two things here: a) It is technically the ATC's fault that two planes pushed back at the same time (assuming, this violates safety rules, considering that the ground handler aborted push-back because of it). She did NOT call out the BA for the Stobart in time and never told BA anything. However: Pilots and ground handlers are supposed to watch out for traffic themselves. Push-back clearance doesn't guarantee a free alleyway, it just tells you that ATC has no objection to you pushing. So what really happend is, that the ground handler did the right thing and nothing bad came of it. A little stop mid-pushback doesn't hurt anyone and sometimes just can't be avoided during busy times. b) No matter whose fault it is, the attitude of the british pilot is absolutely uncalled for. It's just bad airmanship. If you feel like you gotta file the report, do it man. But don't bitch about such a small thing on freq, especially during peak hours.
Actually the Stobart and the Delta wasn't the problem at all. The Aer Lingus passing behind the BA on the other hand.. That was an accident waiting to happen. Luckily the ground crew averted the crash, but she didn't have full situational awareness. She says the Aer Lingus was told to hold for BAs push, but that isn't heard in the video so she might have forgotten. Either way, the BA pilots were told it was clear to push, it wasn't. So they were absolutely not at fault. And understandably shaken as they just avoided an accident.
The BA pilots excuse that he wasn't listening on frequency because he was talking to the tug is bogus & showed poor CRM considering there was PF & PM ie 2 pilots. It didn't need both pilots talking to the tug. Controller knew all surface movements far better than the BA pilot due to ground/SMC radar & I guess it wasn't the BA pilots first ride in a rodeo as the heterodyne squeal showed other pilots were stepped on. If he's speaking to the tug, SMC/ground controller doesn't know as they usually use an audio patch cable to the tug guys headphones upon pushback Controller is trying to clear traffic onto taxiways on a busy frequency. Arguing like a tool, the BA pilot acted in an unsafe manner due to his bad attitude & is an accident waiting to happen & his impatience causes people to rush making huge mistakes
That BA pilot needs to get a grip, the controller is pushed to her limit handling all aircraft. Glad to hear how many pilots appreciated her work on that day. An BA wonder why their passenger numbers have dropped over the years
People talk a lot of shit about JFK, but JFK ATC have their uses and one of them is they'd have made this BA pilot fucking miserable for behaving like this. The Irish were too kind.
I wonder who was reprimanded in the end? Capt. Happy for not having one of his many radios on the tower while pushing back? Talking to ramp crew is crumby reason to not hear atc calls.
Catherine, pushback is exactly what it sounds like, the aircraft is pushed back from the gate or stand using a tug. They *could* use reverse thrust to back up, but this is highly dangerous, and potentially could damage the engines, so they just wait until they are away from the terminal to complete engine startup.
Glad to hear somebody taking sense. She gave unsafe instruction and the tried to cover her arse. If she was overloaded then that in itself is a separate safety issue for which the controller and supervisor must answer. However I do believe the BA pilot acted unproffesionally with his comments.
Kennedy Steve would be more commanding in his "KENNEDY GROUND TO AER LINGUS! STOP!" and "EARTH TO SPEEDBIRD 81 DELTA!! CAUTION AER LINGUS TRYING TO RAM YOU!". And he would make fun of the whole thing, and not be passive-aggressive about it. And probably welcome a safety report since this was actually a safety risk.
I don't know if she actually did try to contact him - would've been nice to be included in the video if she did. However, the pilot should really not block the frequency for this nonsense. After informing the controller of the situation, he should just shut up and file the safety report if he feels so inclined. By blocking the frequency, he's just causing unnecessary delays and, ironically, could make the controller unable to inform other pilots of potential safety hazards in time...
