Jesus I was in the army in the 80's. It doesn't feel that long ago, the videos and equipment in them looks fecking ancient......just realised, I'm old ffs. Another great vid, cheers mate.
@@paulritchie5868 M16 is great, a bullet coming out of the muzzle really helps in killing the target,that might have been an issue with the SA80. I really hated lugging the C1A1 around despite its ability to take out grizzlys and bison.
SLR yes it was good for elephant hunting, it was also better with a bipod and LMG mag and scope. SA80 I found to be something that suited me. Never had one stoppage and also got almost perfect scores with it. All things are some kind of compromise. I would rather hit something 20 times with 30 round mag 5.56 than 4 possible times times with 20 round mag 7.62. SLR was old an worn out.
@@peterwilson5528 Rubbish new barrels and shes good as new sa80 A HEAP OF rubbish metal junk no wonder no bought it in a gunfight with the PIRA if it jammed you were dead indeed ;;HK 416 should have been issued indeed .
First time I fired the 94mm the first spotting round left me in a huge cloud of smoke and totally obscured the target picture for several seconds. No fall of shot observed. The rest of the magazine similarly went nowhere useful, but left me a smoking pillar of target designation for anyone in low-earth orbit. The Sgt instructor I was with said my tracer had gone off like a spastic lawn sprinkler, reminded me the Colonel was watching, admitting he had no fucking idea what the range was . He advised me to thump the thing off into the distance and live with it. I fired, (my eyes closed) and hit an old conqueror just below the commanders cupola. It went flying upwards like a spinning top. The colonel shook my hand, the Sgt smiled and I was considered the number one anti-tank man in my BFPO for the next few years.
yeah the mod made it seem a lot better than it was for quite a while and i read a big part of it was that the first sa80a1s and prototypes were carefully hand made and everything was made with care and then when they mass produced them things weren't made right and receivers didn't fit and they would put them in vices to make them fit and also that they incorrectly copied the ar 18 bolt or another part
Toby Short AR 15 I think, one of the 1st prototypes was literally an m16 chopped up and remade into a bulpup. Forgotten weapons did a good episode on this. There were a lot of issues with endurance such as the dieting pin and butplate breaking easily, down to poor design and material choices.
it was the ar 18 they copied and sterling made a mock up themselves to prove that it was copied from the ar 18 and i believe ian from forgotten weapons covered this iirc, and i remember reading somewhere that there was plans to base it off of the AR 15 but it was scraped due to the buffer tube
IKR each country had their own theme/style and they looked cool as shit. An 80's Marine with his olive round netted helmet, holding an M-16 and a M1911 in his holster is a very distinct look. Now every country more or less has 3-4 basic uniform designs and most look the same to the untrained eye.
At the time this video was made it probably was reliable as trials had shown. As it turned out, they hadn't done enough trials to reveal the weaknesses that would make it unreliable.
I love how it jumps from a brand new infrared viewer to "trenches." I was laughing expecting the narrator to talk about the brand new technological invention of a ditch used to hide soldiers from enemy fire.
You have to remember the doctrine was based on providing a buffer against Soviet aggression, stopping them from taking advancing too far west before it all went nuclear. I was a schoolboy reservist in '89 - on a NATO Ex in Germany we just dug in and waited for 'Orange Forces' to assault. My sect was guarding a reserve demolition on a minefield gap in the Sibbesse valley. It was all exciting stuff for an 18 y.o. kid, but the reality that we were nothing more than expendable cannon fodder is sobering now. As Chaz t says, the new split hairpin wriggly tin was a massive leap forward..
Barry Alexander As part of CRAC (CF) - Commander Royal Armoured Corps (Covering Force), we had a nice jolly talk given to us by a Brigadier in 1985, we had a life expectancy of 90% casualties in 24 hours, and a Soviet airborne division to be dropped behind us after that. My troop was nominally at war strength of four sections of 10 men in AfV 432, three CVR (T) with three crew (Tp Comd, Tp SSGT, Tp Recce Sgt vehicles), a FV180 CET (Frog) with two crew, HMLC Stalwart with MT Cpl, 4 Tonne GS Truck with driver, so 53 bodies - 24 hours 5 were expected to still be capable of fighting. Quite sobering. In actual strength we struggled to man three sections with 7 men, 2 per CVR (T) and the Stalwart - so about 28 in peacetime (the only time we were near war strength was for Exercise Lionheart in 1984 when the TA and Reserve forces were called up and deployed).
It was probably NATO scaremongering, but I remember reading in 87/88 that a common serial in Warsaw Pact CPXs was for Ex play to start with a pre-emptive strike by Soviets. Both sides had tactical nuclear weapons delivered by arty, to while it may not have been armageddon, there is a good chance that people would have been fried somewhere.
Barry Alexander They expected a quick first strike when swords were crossed, mainly chemical weapons on storage areas, ports and point of attack. This was envisaged after a period of tension with troops already deploying in the field with reserve forces being called up and reforger in flow.
The conversion from the SLR to the SA - 80 was interesting, two completely different weapons. The SLR had a powerful kick, often rewarding you with a bruised shoulder after a day on the ranges and demanded a firm grip when firing the weapon. The SA - 80 compared to the SLR has no kick and with the sights made it an easier weapon to use, enabling you to hit the target more effectively. The reduced length also made it more effective to use in urban combat.
I knew someone who was in the Royal Marines at the time and tested the SA80, he said that initially he was skeptical of it, and that got even more reinforced as he continued to use it. He has a short amount of time with the A2 and said that was definitely what it should have been in the first place. He aged out just after the A2 was brought in and went on to become an adult instructor at army cadets.
I love your videos, and I've just gone into year 11, this indicates, as you could guess, that I anticipate applying for the army on October 16th 2017 (when I become 15 years 7 months) in hopes of going to AFC Harrogate for the September 2018 intake. I thought you might find it funny, that my brother, who is 18, seemed to have no interest in joining the military, which I've wanted for so long, then weeks before I can finally join the military, my brother seemingly goes "fuck it" and applies to join the Royal Navy as a Weapons Specialist. I might be low-key salty that he did it first, but I must clarify that I'm proud of him.
It's amusing how the first thing they say (about the defence requirements and political situation) not changing . Probably a reasonable assumption at the time, but if you had told them what the world really would be like in 2005 they would have laughed it off as an unlikely fiction.
Jordan B it’s amazing how a couple of decades of technology and warfare changes from the “fighting soviets” thinking. Just looking at a Daniels defense AR rifle and just hand them that and say this is for the civilian market and see how they would have reacted with weapon development, sorry going off topic but damn I love these old training videos (will be in place from 90s and beyond lol)
I joined the RAMC in '89. My personal weapon was the Stirling SMG although I fired everything else. I used to love competition shooting with the SLR and Browning HP. We got the SA80 at some point but I don't remember when. As a leftie, I could shoot veryt well with both hands.
Not bad for a VHS transfer! Good to know it's now digital and archived. Thanks again Matsimus. I'd never heard of MORAT before this. Put many of them on the NK border and let 'em rip after modding them to lock onto stationary artillery pieces ;-)
SteelbeastsCavalry my uncle was an aircraft mechanic in the USMC in the 1980s and was on the USS Kearsarge when they rescued a downed pilot in Bosnia. He told me that the helos were full of so many holes that it was a miracle they still flew.
When they picked up Scott O'Grady or was it a different guy? That's cool, glad your uncle made it back safely man. Wait, the Bosnia thing happened during the 90's actually, (that's when WE were involved anyway).
Matsimus: I'm a brand new subscriber here, brother. You've put together a really good, informative and captivating channel with great subject matter. I really enjoy your delivery and your creativeness in coming up with engaging content. Thank you and well done sir. Cheers.
The SLR when it hit something it stayed hit and was totally reliable agreed heavy and not good for close combat ie buildings such like but change had to come and the mk 2 sa80 turned to be good weapon keep up the good work
Got to try out the LSW back in 1983, all those of us who tried it out thought it was an excellent weapon, there were no hints of the issues both it and the rifle were going to suffer from when they eventually did go into service.
Tim de Boer Better than the LAW66 in it could stop more MBT's, lighter than the Carl Gustav MAW, supposed to be issued to more soldiers as well than the MAW. So your close range AT capability was spread out around your section and platoon better and not just in a single weapon at one point.
that brings back a lot of memories!! Glad I only had to carry the LP7N and not the TI Spyglass and crap around, with the radio, spare batteries, and everything else I was carrying close to 40kgs in the Pack even before a 2 first lines of ammo!!!
Love the opening "Intro Comments". In 1985 we expect it to remain the same till the next century. With the fall of the Wall in 89, it didn't even make it to the next decade. Very happy times spent in BAOR from 1980 to 1996.
Would also like to see a video on the British LBE from the 80's. Bought some on line here in the US , very durable heavy cotton canvas mission capable gear. Found video of its use in the Falkland Island war but not in depth information. Thanks Matsimus
I grew up close to Suffield and even worked on the base quite a number of times when I was in my early 20s. I remember seeing a lot of this gear being used on the base. It was awesome. I even was fortunate enough to be working on some Atco trailer (can't remember wth we where doing though) which was some type of command post for the war games going on. Remember sitting there watching the artillery hammering away. Loved that Chally 2 as well. What a beast. And the Warrior as well. Quite a lot larger in real life. And mean looking. I took a parachute version, atleast that's what I think it was, shortened version of the SLR for a spin at a range in Calgary. Very nice rifle. Great balance, nice to shoot off hand. Actually very nice to shoot off hand with the shortened version. I was making perfect lung shots on a screen they had at the range with running wild boars. Liked that optic with the straight post in it. Simple and effective. Also remember quite a few times at the bar on the highway, ummm, meeting a lot of Brit soldiers not on the best of terms.lol Ah them where good times though. To old for bar brawls now. Hehe. Great channel, you got a subscriber.
Apart from the gaff about the SA80 reliability, most of that equipment was really good. Loved the Merlin round for motors, with MORCOS for motors aiming system, it's a great top attack system against tanks. Out of LOS; hard for the enemy to suppress it.
Ah yes, the L85 and L86. A weapons system designed by people who didn't really design weapons, built in a factory where they had been told they were being laid off and the factory closed when the contract was done and made with such high quality steel and furniture that bits snapped off when cold and could half eject cases backwards, and even jam the bolt carrier half way back because the heat of firing warped the rails within. Beautiful. I don't miss my time in the army, I really don't miss the SA80 and I sure as hell was happy when I moved from A1 to A2!!!
Was very happy when they introduced the L85A1 into service,the only time us RAF chaps used it was either on a 25mtr range or guard duty,it was so much lighter than the SLR and with the sling supporting most of the weight lt meant it was so much easier to hold your cup of tea and dunk your biscuit. On a more serious note,when I was employed on support helicopters operating from field sites it was a far more practical weapon for us if we had to defend ourselves,it was most likely that our enemy would be very close and so long range accuracy was not that important to us. Also as most of the time we were not in trenches or fixed defensive positions we were able to keep our weapons cleaner more easily than the poor guys in the Army. A lot of us on support helicopters thought that a pump action shotgun would have been more practical for at least some of us. Glad I never had to climb up the side of a helicopter in the rain carrying an SLR and any equipment needed to carry out servicing or repairs,that would not have been fun. Thanks for another excellent upload,love the way you are informative but at the same time give some really good tongue in cheek comments. Thanks again. Just FYI I served from 1979-2003 so saw a lot of big changes to the way we operated and the equipment we got issued,some massive improvements,but also so howlers.
In the US Army when we talk about equipment we usually are not referring to weapons. While technically weapons are included in equipment we separate them into different groups in everyday conversation. Clothing and vehicles are likewise technically equipment but they are also separated into their own categories. For example, a unit level MTOE inventory sheet will list all of these together but how each category is handled in accountability, storage and use is different. Individual clothing and individual equipment also tend to be handled separately. This separation in paperwork and handling has perhaps contributed to using more specific terms for each type over time.
I missed most of this stuff, thank goodness. Only Law impressed tbh. Could never understand the move from 7.62, then greater beings than me thought it was better replaced by a baby round. And we know the story of SA80's early days. I did like Soldier 95 clothing, enough to purchase surplus for my civvy shooting activities, in DPM of course. Great video as usual, thanks.
John Stott We changed to 5.56 because of the US, same reason the 7.62 was adopted as NATO standard in the first place. Soldier 95 was a good concept, but they used the cheapest material they could for the trousers. Average life was around 6 months for a pair before they were see through between the legs. It was so bad that we were reduced to having 1 pair of trousers in good condition, the rest had to have patches to reinforce/replace the worn material. A lack of replacements available.
"Guardsmen and RSM's everywhere will be *relieved* to know that a new drill had been developed and approved for the sa80 rifle" 😂😂 in case you were wondering what gives RSMs sleepless nights
Very interesting about the LAW 80. The US Marines liked the 9mm spotting rounds with multiple shots for it's SMAW (Shoulder Launched Multipurpose Assault Weapon) integrally mounted for ranging targets like bunkers and light armor. Originally the old M40 105mm with an M8 .50 caliber single shot spotting rifle firing a tracer round for ranging at target. The US Army and Marines started using these during the early 1960s after the Korean War. Only the US Marines exclusively have the SMAW weapons system to their weapons platoons in their rifle companies for their Assault Men teams. So the British idea of having a multiple shot ranging small caliber tracer firing device incorporated into an assault weapon rocket system was indeed a good idea because the SMAW is an expensive weapons system that has to be deployed quickly and accurately by Marines.
'The Saxon vehicle has excellent road performance', - really? The ones we used didn't. They would slip off the road and turn over at the drop of a hat. We were much better off using the old Bedford four tonner.
A great video, would love to hear your comments and opinions on any of the equipment here youve not already covered. Looking forward to seeing you back in your discord channel when able :D
The bayonet was absolutely crap and in a lesson at least one would break trying to cut barbed wire. I found out from a the SASC that it was tested on telephone wire.....Mongs. It was a good range weapon but the fact that we could not give it away spoke volumes. After all the upgrades it probably costs 3 times more than a better off the shelf weapon.
LOL, if you ask any old Royal Engineer you would swear that was a video of the Army in the mid to late 90's. I joined in 88 and it was still Steel helmet, itchy KF shirts,putties and 58 pattern webbing. I did my training with a SLR (best rifle ever!) & light machine gun (probably the most accurate weapon ever made). In the first gulf war we were issued the Kevlar helmet but still had SLR's in service, as a armored engineer I had SMG which caused more casualties than the Iraqi's due to the cocking handle getting caught on cam nets, pulling back the working parts and discharging a round into the soldier or someone close by.
I don't know if the image jumping is from poor editing or VHS fragging/deterioration, but goodness the film is everywhere jumping back and ahead and back again
Matsimus Gaming did a video on it not so long ago while talking about possible replacements, or maybe not, I'm sure he talked about it somewhere. Anyway, It's just an upgrade to extend the life of the L85A2. And final edit. Solved the confusion in my head, it was not this channel that talked about the A3, it was Forgotten Weapons. Good video if you want to see it if you haven't already. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-js4d8c7KzCQ.html
Remember when we took delivery of our Warrior repair vehicle... was a fair bit jealous of my mate as he got to be driver. I was stuck with my Chieftain ARV... but it was my baby. That Warrior went like sh*t off a shovel though and had amazing brakes.
+Matsimus Gaming : Hey Matsimus, much love from a former American soldier here, love your videos! This particular video reminded me of a set of books I have that were written for the British Army called "Combat and Survival; What it Takes to Fight and Win". Are you aware of this multiple book series? It's 28 volumes of short VERY entertaining information. Here's a link to Amazon www.amazon.com/Combat-Survival-What-Takes-Win-Various-Volumes/dp/0874755603 Please look into it if you haven't yet! It's fun, and definitely written for the "youngish" soldier ;) Much info on weapons, techniques, survival etc. Granted, it's old, and some of the stuff is a bit hokey, but a lot of good info as well. Also, lots of cool pictures and diagrams of Nato and Soviet weaponry with mostly good descriptions. On the down side, they occasionally completely blunder, as in suggesting the Desert Eagle as a possible good upcoming military pistol :O Thanks!
Interesting to see all the reversed, or rethought decisions. Removing the GPMG and then returning it; rethinking returning to 7.62mm; binning the LSW; binning the Milan Spartan; Saxon(!); returning the 66mm; as well as all the positive spin on everything....
saddening to see that we hollowed out our defence and were conceptually blinded by ops in Iraqistan while our potential adversary in the East has recovered from the cold war and updated and revamped their forces. 1 BR Corps in Germany in 80s - we can't even field a proper Division now. Shameful disinvestment in Defence. Heads should effing roll, instead, there are more cuts downstream.
7 лет назад
+ Barry Alexander It's frustrating, but got to prioritise. The babyboom generation never wanted to pay their share, always would rather party. Now we got giant bills to pay because of that. And I think it's worth something too to not be a country where significant numbers of people can't even afford food (10% in Russia, estimated 2% in the US) or clothing (30% in Russia, estimated 7% in the US) Russia may have built a massive army of agression, but their economy is a shambles. If they attack, victory will come from economic exhaustion of the Russians, whereas NATO countries would have a massive economy which they can turn into a war economy, over time. In that sense nothing has changed in 70 years: Russians would still attack first, win at first, then get royally fucked by NATO in the long run because they're economically and technologically backwards.
I was in ITDU in 1986. We did trials on a few different weapon systems. Merlin was too expensive (although top brass told us it was great) We also tested an underslung grenade launcher called CLAW which was also too expensive (we did a demo firing it through walls to gain entry during FIBUA) Anorak moment warning.....those four Warriors that they showed on that film were all prototypes and were all quite different. The fuel tanks were in various different places and hatches (driving etc) were all different (as you can see on closer inspection of the film) There is a warrior bloopers film with all the outtakes from the training film which was funny as f**k (lad called Boniface crashing into a tree and the vehicle just stopped dead in its tracks)
I was in then. We still had SLRs. A brilliant, brilliant weapon. Mine was plastic but still had a wood butt. Still useful for smacking people with. You could also put a bayonet on it without looking pathetic. "Would you come closer please I cannot reach you with my SA80?" Also none of this body armour malarkey.
Ah the good old days, replacing the old tin dome with a new kevlar helmet that didnt keep falling over your eyes ;) and having a resperator that you didnt have to remove to take a swig of water. Even the 58 pattern webbing was a nightmare, glad it was replaced by the 85 pattern when we got the l85's. Lots of big changes back then, we even got turbocharged 4 tonners but it was the end for the trusty RL :( New landrovers, new trucks, new tanks and APC's, oh and the Berlin wall came down so the end of the Cold War :)
The new helmets were not kevlar they were balistic nylon, not the same, a lot lot cheaper. We had already largely replaved our RL's with MK's and MJ's. We were still using 10 tonne Knockers and Milicent Mk3 for load carriers in the RE 's (1950/60's designs) into the 1990's. Still even had series 2A landrovers in 1998 in one of my units in 1 Br Corps (deployed with them to Kosovo, along with our newer Wolf rovers). The MK6 helmet was useless as well, at least the old steel one we never had to wear all the time. Took a few years to iron out the faults with the MK6 and even then only after quite a few years of service in Iraq and Afghanistan.
I know that a lot of the old guys that I work with, who were the Canadian Army up until the 90's loved the C1A1 (Canadian L1A1/SLR) to death, and claimed it was the best gun gun ever of all time. I also hear from them a few (likely hyperbolic) stories about how bad and fragile the C7's were, obviously i can't entirely refute their stories given that most of them left the army before I was even born, but all the experience I've had with AR-15's and C7's have been almost entirely positive. That all being said, I can (from background knowledge and hearing 1st hand accounts) agree with them that the 70's and early 80's was probably the worst time ever to be in the Canaidan army.
The C7 and C8 (short version) have done well. For those of us that grew up with the C1, yes, it will forever hold a special place. I have an Australian L1, which, for a while, were readily available at a good price whereas very few C1s were made available to the civilian market. C1s, on the rare occasion that one heard of one being for sale, cost far more and were snapped up pretty quickly. I bought my AR15 in 1975 and found it to have far fewer stoppages than any C1, despite putting far more rounds through it in each session than I ever did with a C1. This video brought back many memories of a high point in my life - I was a Helicopter Pilot in 444 Squadron, 4 Canadian Mechanized Brigade Group, in Lahr/Schwarzwald when this video was still fresh.
The M16(A3) is a much better fire arm in my opinion my unit tested the L85 and it was very inaccurate and unreliable but they used the same magazine and ammo
I had a go in the original prototype MCV80 and thought it was superb. Then we got the tracked rapier, which was terrible, as was the ADCIS air defence computer system....as with any period with British military procurement, you take the good with the bad....I saw the late 70s all the way through to 2002, nearly 24 yrs service and witnessed the good and the bad, the same mistakes made and remade, but the British squaddie never failed to impress me in their ability to make even the crapiest kit (tech term) work! Bless em all!....SA80 was ok but as a gunner we got it much later than the infantry, so a lot of the initial problems were ironed out. It was a bit plasticy (technical term), but certainly the latest iteration has done away with a lot of that. LAW 80 gave way to the AT4 and AT4CS, good kit! Good to see all these things again!
great footage, although it's from a VHS video, the original footage was shot on film so it still holds up well; plus it was convenient as they could easily add stock "bad guys" film footage. For some strange reason when we got to the MORAT section I couldn't help thinking of BORAT for some reason...
