Essentially, if we ignore the Highlands of Scotland, in Britain and Ireland by the mid-18th century most civilian swords were smallswords and spadroons, most cavalry swords were basket-hilted broadswords and backswords and most infantry swords were hangers and spadroons.
I know this video is very old but I'm curious about where u bought this Mary Rose Backsword and how much it costs in American dollars. If u don't reply I understand I'm sure ur really busy with everything going on at the moment
Not long after actually. Basket hilts were still common in England until the middle of the 18th century. The basket-hilt became more scarce in the Highlands from the mid-18th century (Highland clearances etc). In the Scottish lowlands the fashions were more similar to English and not much like the Highlands at all. The Highland style basket-hilt was only made regulation in Highland regiments from the 1790's, as a way of giving national pride, but other Scot regiments had spadroons and sabres.
As mentioned in the previous video, yes there were basket hilts from elsewhere in Europe, but they were not the predominant sword style in those places, whereas in Britain they were. In Britain in the 18th century the backsword is covered in most of our fencing books and was a common sword, whereas in Europe it is nearly all smallsword/foil at that time. Moreover, the styles of hilt used in Britain were fairly unique to these Islands and limited to England, Scotland, Ireland and Wales.
Basket hilts appear by 1545 in Britain though, before they appear in Germany. The earliest known example is that from the Mary Rose. Also, the German basket hilts are different designs to the British ones. It seems more like parallel development, but the British examples are the earliest that we know about.
The hanging guard is such a "portcullis" of a defensive position. So flexible and hard to breach in a close fight. Silver's "true gardant fight" would indeed be close to the body, the cross-guard level with the top of the fencer's forehead. Another thing would be to have the tip of the blade slightly angled inwards towards the user's own knee. MacBane would later insist upon a forward-slanting hanging guard which would be more adapted to fighting against bayonets and the like.
Yes, the Lowlands by this time were essentially like England and an administratively stable part of Britain. The Battle of Culloden was predominantly Scots on both sides, with the pro-British Government side winning of course. In fact the language 'Scots' is a dialect of Anglo-Saxon English. The Highlands were traditionally quite separate culturally. The basket hilt was used in Ireland, but the smallsword was popular as well there. It was partly a matter of social class, and civilian vs military
I'd be very surprised if most sword systems didn't have at least a cursory treatment of the hanging guard. Not because it's necessarily a strong guard position for some sword designs, but because drawing your sword directly into a hanging guard is often very natural.
Thank you for the two part video about thses swords. Could you also make a video about "mortuary swords"? I believe they are somehow related to baskethilted words and backswords.
Well British basket tradition is without discussion huge true but south of Germany as Oaekeshott states could be prototypical homeland of these experimental basket hilts since 1570s and also Austrian Empire had quiet a lot of use of these sure they were competed by sabers but it was in different uses truly - pallasche for cuirassiers and dragoons and sabers for light cavalry - also 1st military patterns comes from there
well I may be wrong on that date :) I will check on that. True designs of south German ones differ - they seem to develop from the complex hilts of bastard swords (Swiss) used in the region. - and as always more of this stuff :) please - "basket case" -> serious one :)
Thank you for the point about the basket being the primary way those high hanging guards are safe for the hand, or that you at least need to hold it higher and back further to protect it. None of the swords I'm considering have much hand protection, so that's a big factor.
When I was small I thought basket hilts looked silly because there are such big gaps to stab through. I just realised that you might not want to try that because if you go through the basket without stabbing hurting the hand enough they could disarm you very easily by twisting.
"Stabbed" (receiving a thrust) in the hands through an English basket hilt? This is rare, but it does happen. From my experience (from fencing bouts in a school where we did a lot of cut-and-thrust George Silver backsword with English-style basket-hilted swords as shown in this video): thrusts to the hand do happen but they are pretty rare... maybe 1 in 20 or 30 thrusts between reasonably skilled fencers. When someone is threatening you with their point, you are very aware of it and are ready for the thrust and are probably doing something smart like extending your blade to intersect/oppose their blade and keep yourself safe, you are "closing the line". This style of hilt does offer a great deal of protection (against cuts). Oh and, re: disarm, sometimes the thrusting blade goes through your guard and it does result in a disarm. I've had this happen once with an opponents rapier went point that went through my guard.
So that explains the popularity of the smallsword/court swords in some lowland circles? It seems that even in the lowlands that the basket hilts existed for battlefield use, but it seems that the small sword was also around. What about Ireland? Did the basket hilt become popular there as well due to their strong ties with Scotland?
Please excuse me if this has been brought up before, but that guard position is one of the most basic ones taught in different styles of kenjutsu using a katana, naginata, or yari (though doing so with a polearm dictates one modifying one's hand position, but the basic hand and body position is the same). I understand how the basket hilt would facilitate this stance and perhaps make it more useful offensively as it would not be necessary to hold the blade out at an angle to create more distance from your opponent in order to keep your hand safe (as I was taught when I learned it with a katana), but calling it a "british" technique is probably a stretch. Just as you mentioned that the same stance can be done with an arming sword (albeit less effectively), there is no reason to think that not having a basket hilt would keep someone from using that posture should the situation call for it, regardless of what type of sword they used.
How did the English and Scottish methods diverge? It seems that Scottish basket hilts lived on long after the English (and the rest of Europe) moved on to sabers and spadroons.
Cheaper to make and maintenance. Unless you use the "false" (real???) edge, two edges don't give a huge advantage because of the very restrictive traditional, later basket hilt (what he has is an earlier version from the Mary Rose). At least that is my understanding.
I understand your reasoning to a point Doug but I don't think that's the whole answer. Once you're geared up for sword sharpening its no great hardship to at least sharpen say the first quarter of the back at the tip to improve penetration on the thrust. Much the same argument goes for maintenance too...... If your life depends on your blade are you seriously going to say 'Its far too much trouble to run a whetstone up both sides'? They weren't idiots (when it came to swords at least) so they presumably figured there was an advantage. With modern metallurgy both seem similar weight and strength. Was it always so? Or was there something about their meathod of manufacture which made them think not sharpening both sides gave a mechanical or durability advantage? Did they develop a technique which involved placing the hand on the blunt back-face of their own sword? - 'Tho that seems as likely to help the opponent grab your blade as for you to whack him tho. Does anyone knows what the driver for that development from broadsword to backsword *really* was?
A backsword blade can be a bit better for thrusting due to the stiffer (thicker) spine, whereas a broadsword or false-edge backsword blade can have a thinner cross-section, for example with a spear-point shape, which is not as good for thrusting but is better for cutting while still pretty decent for thrusting and penetration.
What I find equally fascinating is the depiction of Basket Hilts with long curved Turkish blades in the Peniciuk sketches - these are not shown as cutlass length which one might assume came from a supply from the Naval quarter in the Jacobite rebellion - they are indeed scimitar like.
