Thanks for watching! Please hit "like" and share the video around - it helps me out enormously. If you enjoy my videos please consider supporting the channel: Join us on Patreon ➜ www.patreon.com/dandavisauthor Get my novels from Amazon ➜ amzn.to/3xngwz5
Any chance for a bronze age weapons video? I blacksmith a little bit and my favorite things to make are historical weapons but the bronze age is my favorite. I'm setting up for smelting bronze in the future but can't figure out my first project for something like a dagger. Maybe you can help if you make that video.
@@CaucAsianSasquatch if only I had access to a 3D printer, I do a lot of my blacksmithing old school because I haven't been doing it all that long but I'm building up my tools. I still use coal
@@HalfmoonForge fantastic. I've cast a few things. you can literally carve what you want from wax, pack it in Moist sand. I made rough bits in brass and use a dremel to finish. Made a handle for a knife
Mycenean armor pieces are truly something to behold for its age. It baffles me how obscure they are and never represented on film in favor of some awkward, ahistorical and unrealistic items.
Well... How they represented Trojan war armor: In classic antiquity: as in classic antiquity; In middle ages: as in middle ages; In modern times: as in classic antiquity + fantasy.
It's so weird to me that these things from what you might think of as a "heroic" age have been so overshadowed by their classical successors. All we really have of the time is myth and hearsay, but you'd think that would exaggerate their legacy in comparison to the better-documented and less romantic classical period. Like in the same way that modern gun nuts romanticise bolt-action and early repeating rifles but are more matter-of-fact about contemporary assault weapons, you know?
I would love to have seen an alternate version of Troy were Brad and Eric (Achilles and Hector) went at each other in a full Bronze panoply. Seeing two fit men in there prime wearing this stuff, beating the crap out of each other would have made historians weep for joy.
Those sheilds! As a hobby metal worker, they blow my mind. To think they started with a lump (!) of bronze and worked it to such high precision and so thin. You only get one shot to get it right and any mistake could mean the project would have to begin again from the crucible. Even small elements like the wire are incredible displays of skill and ingenuity. No rollers, braising torch or steel tools that are considered 'must haves' today. Astounding.
They are astonishing aren't they. The hammering marks inside are so small, tight and even. The expertise and precision is amazing and there have been very few proper reconstructions. Neil Burridge made one specifically for archeologists to test it with reproduction weapons and then they cut a wedge of bronze out to examine it microscopically and compare the metallurgy. Archeologist Barry Molloy talks about it in one of his books and a couple of articles. It's amazing to think that there thousands upon thousands of these things produced across Europe.
Hi Hendrik, I have some armour making experience, (mostly steel) and always wondered how the Greeks made their beautiful Corinthian helmets. You say they started with a lump of steel, possible... I tend to think more in the direction of starting of with a rough casted shape lately... Bronze can be easely casted, and ( Yesterday I watched a RU-vid movie about Pakistan workers casting parts of a brass bull, brazing it together to a complete hollow shape) and they had that technology to do that. So, why first make a lump or a plate, then forming it into a bowl shape? Cast a rough shape of a helmet or bowl, with a comfortable thickness of about 5 mm, then hammer it out to the desired shape and thickness... Just a thought. You cant do this trick with iron or steel. Then you really have to start with a lump.
@@ducomaritiem7160 iron/steel are different again (although just as remarkable). My (limited) experience with bronze casting has shown how hard it would be to cast anything remotely resembling a sheet of bronze without any cold shuts. (I have tried). My understanding is that outside of bronze production centres, casting bronze was fairly limited. It is hard to make a reliable crucible capable of carrying enough material to make anything of size. Also when you include the time and labour to make the charcoal, I would suggest it was more efficient (faster and less exertion) to just start hammering and annealing. Remember each tree must be felled by (bronze or stone) axe and the charcoal transported. If you are interested Schola Gladiatoria has a current video on helmet development in Europe, which is worth checking out. As for braising together large elements, say for a statue, my understanding is that the two pieces are set in place with flux and braise, a mold formed around them, then the whole thing heated to the braising point. Quite an exersize.
33 pounds. The whole armor? My work out vest is 40 pounds. This soldier was also carrying a spear a knife an axe, footwear perhaps a sword with any incidentals luck charms, sentimental trinkets. Very strong people.
This is standard (up to this day), the standard weight of the equipment of an infantry soldier going into combat has been and still is 35kg to 40kg (75lbs to 90lbs). The more things changed the more they stayed the same. Armor was one thing, then shield, spear, sword, axe, etc. Added up always the same.
As a medieval reenactor I fought in just over 1/3 my not inconsiderate weight in arms & armour. I could have done with a chariot! This works out just about standard throughout history. Unlike a rifle, a big long stick is a walking aid.
@@davidbarnes9306 yes, the weight stays the same but is not always followed by comfort of carry. However keep in mind a rifle is usually carried on a sling on the back while in march but is almost always resting on some static form of support while being fired in combat. Whereas a spear, sword, club, axe, etc. Had to be swung and poked by hand by the user through the whole duration of combat putting a massive strain on the user.
@@machematix Well, I do imagine that the armor would be made as thin as possible which would keep the weight down as suggested in this video. The claim was 35 pounds.
Another really fantastic video Dan. That quote from The Iliad about Odysseus’ helm is such a great reminder of why Homer’s works are some of the most important works of literature in all of human history. It is amazing to think that someone made the choice to include in their epic poem this detailed provenance for a prestige artifact that was at the time already a piece of history. I can only imagine what the archaeologists who first discovered the boar tusk helmets felt upon making this connection.
Thank you very much. Yes, it was the foundational work for classical antiquity for good reason. The way that these precious objects retain their stories is seen in other times too. There's Bronze Age burials with Neolithic axes in them - were they found? Or were they passed down for a thousand years, retaining their stories?
this is because they are living bronze age oral traditions compiled in the form of epic poems; remember that the iliad is presumed to have been compiled in 800bc and the collapse of mycenaean greece happened arround 1100bc, so the time period of the poem composition was super close to the bronze age itself..
Bronze just got melted again for other use thats why we just dont find enough weapon or amour pieces, Iron was less expensive and more common, they just made new iron weapons or armour. In the bronze age a father would give his copper stash to his sons to they coule use it time and again. Fantastic video. Congrats.
Thank you. Thousands of bronze age weapons were buried with people or deposited in rivers or bogs in Europe - way more than armour was. There are thousands of bronze age swords in the archeological record. They didn't treat them in the same way as they did armour.
@@tedarcher9120 the swords we have weren't accidentally lost in a marsh they were intentionally buried or deposited. The ones in rivers and bogs were usually purposely bent or broken and were often deposited together with other items, perhaps multiple sword pieces and other special objects. Thousands upon thousands of swords were purposely interred. And almost no armour ever was.
@@DanDavisHistory Think of how many modern little boys have sword collections. I know i had dozens of swords by the time i was an adult: toys, replicas, decorative, functional... any sword was a good sword. I had ninja swords, a roman style sword, a claymore style sword, katana and wakizashi, chineese swords (both straight and curved), a scimitar, toy lightsabers, a display sword shaped like a dragon... and that's just what i can think of off the top of my head. The only armor i had was a plastic helm and cuirass (medieval western europe style) from a holloween costume. Weapons just spark a person's imagination in a way that armor doesn't i suppose.
I've been in construction for 20 years . They still haven't come up with hand protection that allows full mobility and function while protecting the hand fully. I hang rain gutters specifically and more often than not I have to remove the gloves to get the flexibility to feel what I'm doing properly . I have to imagine a person who makes their living with a weapon in their hand wants that same flexibility and would sacrifice the hand guard in exchange.
Different job, same problem - I take blood or administer injections in cold weather. I'd still rather go without gloves rather than lose the dexterity.
19:00 Kind of reminds me of this documentary I saw where some UK "experts" had two completely out of shape volunteers wear Bronze Age armor and told them to run full sprint. Then concluded it was "impossible" for anyone to wear such armor in battle. It was ridiculous. I don't know if they were deliberately manipulating it to confirm their bias or they were so out of touch with reality they forgot to hire actual soldiers, or at least two men who actually lifted weights.
I stumbled across your channel while doing research on the Tollense Valley battle and have since been going through all the content on your channel like a kid going through his Halloween candy. Love the informative and thought provoking style in which you present these videos. Also picked up the Gods of Bronze series on Audible and am 10 hours into the first book. It has been an absolute blast so far. Can't wait to see your next video, keep up the good work!
I would imagine whatever was left on a battlefield was likely looted either by the winners or the locals. Farmers gathering armor would likely find a use for the metal. No point having a wagon load of armor if you are not going to use it.
Yeah none of these armours were just left on a battlefield. They were all deliberately deposited by their owners, often with collections of other items like jewellery or beads or cremated human remains.
There's a moment in Song of Achilles that describes Odysseus going from opponent to opponent, dismounting his chariot to strip bodies of arms and armor to throw onto the back of his chariot as war spoils. I understand Ancient Greece was a very poor place, but this is some fast recycling.
@@hardgay7537 the victors always stripped the armor and other valuables from the vanquished, there are many references to that in contemporary writings of the times
Having worn "bullet-proof"-vests and other modern body armor, modern and steel helmets, with weapons and kit for a few years in operations I find this very interesting. Trying to visualize their full kit, if a fighting soldier actually used this or just the chieftains etc is very fascinating. I appreciate that you are clear on what is known and what is speculation.
Important considerations with shields: A shield does not have to be almost impervious to damage to be a good shield. It's in fact quite plausible that it was desirable for an opponent to be able to successfully cut into, or thrust into (obviously not *too* deep) your shield so that you can then control their weapon. The value of being able to do that can't be overstated. If the opponents weapon bounces off your shield; their weapon is free to offend you. If they cut into your shield, you can move your own shield and bind their weapon, largely nullifying their capacity to offend you. I actually suspect that the commonality of organic shields in later periods is actually as much a reflection of martial practice as it is material wealth or technological sophistication.
Weapons of defeated enemy was reused even in 20th century. For example, after beating Romans at Teutoborg forest, Germans burned captured shields and collected metal parts for reuse. And in Iliad was described great dispute between Odysseus and Ajax over captured suite of armor. Also, it was common in Old Greece that old shield passes to grandson as heirloom.
One can only guess how many fine pieces of bronze armor were recycled into other goods as fashion and technology changed. It's surprising how much survived, considering.
How is it that central Europe (Hungry, Czech, ect) is never talked about in a historic context, but over and over, they clearly had technology equal to the Greeks, at the same time. Looking at those maps you showed, in almost every case, there was a cluster centered around that area, in many cases with more finds then Greece.
They just didnt have any written texts unfortunately. It seems like they were almost equally technologically advanced and had similar societies. So the historic knowledge about then is much more niche. Also Greek history is influential for another 1000+ years after its golden age. Influential in Rome and its territories and all of the later civilizations of the Middle East
You're a damn treasure, Dan! Enjoy your videos in the evening always when you post em. Keep it up lad, your style is so very fluid and not dry at all, without taking any blows regarding quality of information. Happy to see your channel grow over the past months. You deserve it.
This just reminds me how awesome the Illiad is. for such and old story, it is so entertaining and intense, especially knowing that some form of the events must have truly happened.
Superb treatment of a facet of ancient warfare largely overlooked but I believe to be of the most significant importance to those warriors whose armor was the embodiment of their deeds and identity.
I could imagine the dendra panopoly to be used as a show of force, a way of intimidation. Worn by body guards of commanders rather than regular field troops. Like "look what we are capable of, if you tried any funny business you couldn't even put a bruise on my warrior, you really shouldn't mess with our palace, so better you start paying tribute right now"
Going by the references to armour figures in the palace stores, the researchers think they were quite common. There were light troops and archers and the core of Mycenaean army was spearmen in these. Between maybe c.1450 BC and c.1300 BC anyway.
@@DanDavisHistory I am surprised that they would have the necessary production capacity for that. Wasn't Bronze a bit harder to come by because you would have to import tin from thousands of miles away? If they were so common how can it be that we only found a single example?
There was enormous quantities of copper and tin being mined and transported at this time so there was enough for thousands of panoplies. There were tens of thousands of swords and spears too. And it's a matter of survival - clearly they were almost never put into tombs - only about eight times. But there were tens of thousands of armours in the Iron Age but only a handful survive. One reason we know they were common is that the Linear B ideogram for "armour" is a Dendra type panoply - pauldrons and everything. That equalled "armour" for them.
Feet never seem to be protected and not all greaves have rims to deflect blows down there. A few greaves do extend somewhat. I can only wonder what they wore as defense as feet needed to be flexible in combat and are very sensitive. The Roman caltrop emphasizes awareness of this. Thank you for this excellent overview
Foot protection seems very rare. I can only think of some knights wearing it. For infantry combat I assume that it was just really difficult to hit someone's foot in formation combat as you it'd be near impossible with a spear and it's probably not a great idea to do a large lean down to aim at someone's foot with a relatively short sword as you'd get a shield to the face.
And another one! Nice, i found your channel yesterday and already watched all your videos. I didnt know how much i missed this content until i came across you. Keep it up ! :)
Thank you, that means a lot. I did so much reading for these last two - each new avenue opens two more. I was thinking one possible follow up video could be about the new militarism of the 12th century BC but I need to think of an angle. Anyway, cheers mate.
Hey man, just finished your first book of the series and got myself the second one. You are really hard on your characters, it is good drama. Tnx for the stories.
Your maps of all the known sites is very helpful when showing the expansive areas that it encompasses. That really must have taken a lot of work, we thank you Dan!
Only in from work and had a tough day then I get an alert to say Dan Davis has dropped a half hour of sheer BLISS , so going to cook something and sit in my nest and thoroughly relax and enjoy, don't even know what it's about but I definitely know it's going to be just Brilliant. Thank you Dan really appreciate your work. Only moan I wish it was for much longer. 🤣🤣🤣🇮🇪
@@DanDavisHistory brilliant I enjoyed the horned helmet video and this was a great follow-up, I love all this historical culture the different people, battles, day to day lives it's so exciting. Of course you do it extremely well and in great detail so it makes more enjoyable. Super channel, I'm hooked. Cheers Dan.
The weapons and armor in Beowulf are often gifted with stories of the deeds done with them. Seems like the purpose is to remember the deeds and inspire new ones.
Really makes me sad and angry that many ancient artefacts are just held in private collections rather than held in trust in a museum for us all to enjoy and learn from.
Some of this stuff was dug up 150 years ago and was only ever in private hands. So much so that there's no proper record of where it actually came from. However many private owners do allow researchers access to artefacts for study and some do loan items to museums for display.
Tin being such a rare material throughout Europe would hopefully pinpoint where the bronze armor was made. As always, excellent work. The BA trade networks between Britain and Cyprus must have been extensive.
One thing I've found interesting in studying this topic, is how constant the weight is. There's a myth from jousting armor and some very late miedeval bullet proof armor that metal armor weighed alot. Not really. The infantryman's fighting load ranged from 35-50lbs, with a marching load of not over 85lbs (with that really just being the professional legions) remaining constant across millenia, then modern militaries got the brilliant idea of making 151lbs a hypothetically light load. Insane.
This is so good. As a researcher in a completely different topic, I love how you're fully transparent about the uncertainty surrounding the facts but still manage to tell a compelling plausible (Hi)story. Bonus points for the Iliad quotes obviously. Might be worth devoting an episode to it (and the Odysseus) ? What can it teach us about the european bronze age ? (ps: I love your books, they almost feel like a much needed prequel to the Iliad)
Love this video! Bronze age armors are often overshadowed by their medieval steel suit cousins. The beginning of the video really intrigued me though concerning these pre-metallurgical organic armors you mention. I never thought about it too intensely and always assumed it would just be some simple hardened leather or hide(certainly couldn't be because I play too many fantasy themed games hmmm) or even just some thick clothing. But, you mention wood and lacquer and now that I think about it things like bone or even plant fibers or ceramics might have been feasible. Any chance content concerning this topic is in the works? or maybe a recommendation if not? Thanks again for the video!
Very interesting and informative video! Western and Eastern Europe tend to get ignored when it comes to bronze armour. Usually the focus is on the Near East, Mesopotamia and the Aegean. I've read some of Dan Howard's 'Bronze Age Military Equipment'. It's a great book but the focus tends to be on Aegean armour, especially body armour, and helmets and western European armour aren't covered in much detail. This video is a great addition to the subject.
Thank you very much. Yes I agree, it's far easier to find that stuff which is one reason I started making these videos about bronze age Europe (outside of the eastern Mediterranean sphere).
Dendra canopy shares similarities with bronze age Chinese armors, especially the lower skirt part. The armor is made for someone fighting on chariots. Chinese bronze age armor also have a skirt, but made of leather or hide. The skirts are way too heavy for foot soldier and not allowing legs to spread wide for a horse rider.
Well done once again my friend. I will become a patron shortly my friend. I'm very familiar with Anthony and Mallory, but thank you for the tip on Drews. Much respect from America
Thank you Chris, I appreciate it. I do like Drews but there are many academics who disagree completely with his views. I'm going to make more videos about this debate in the coming weeks.
God, imagine the energy and innate knowledge of metal it took to hammer out one of those beautiful bronze shields. Was going to leave a comment for the algorithm but that is truly incredible, I would have thought they were just made from a mold like that considering how ornate they are, even the shields used in battle.
Considering how economical ancient blacksmiths were with wrought iron, for example forge welding several dozen used nails back into bar stock. It seems like many bronze artifacts could have simply been reused. Idk just a thought.
Probably not a lot from the Bronze Age because of the rarity of the material used, it’s likely after a battle it was someone’s job to go around collecting armor and weapons to be melted down and/or reused.
It wasn't that rare by this point. Bronze was in wide circulation, it was used for farm tools and all kinds of things. There were many productive mines and regular ingots and scrap shipments all over Europe. They placed thousands of bronze swords into the ground with burials or as offerings. But they decided not to do the same with armour.
Amazing as always. Could you do a video on late Bronze Age Galicia? The Castro Culture had some magnificent metalwork and their hillforts are scattered everywhere in Galicia and North Portugal.
I'm actually quite surprised how similar the Mycenaen helmet design starting at 6:30 is with the Trojan armor helmets from the movie Troy, which all internet and RU-vid comment history buffs scorn so badly. After this type of video, with so extensive, clear and detailed explenation with tons of expertice, it's extremely hard to realise that why the debate would still rage on. How would anyone have conflicting questions after this type of unpassionate and clinically correct tranquil explenation. Very informative and educational.
I really wonder how much the Iliad was just Ancient Greek anime. Something about the way “homer” describes certain items almost like the reader is supposed to go “whaaaat? SEVEN layers of oxhide? That’s crazy. I only have three” or whatever.
