Clarification time!! -therese I was trying really hard this whole stream to preface my thoughts with "this is my opinion" but at 21:56 i failed to do so. I'm just a fan, obviously i have no jurisdiction over what is the sound of BTS and what isnt. What i should have specified and what i was trying to vocalize was that the producers on Golden were different from the producers that most commonly work with bts and therefore it sounded different to the rest of their discography [to me]. And musically, that made me critical of the album but I have no issue with it being all in English. Again, this was never meant to be a discussion on what language BTS sings in. We like to focus purely on the music. But whether the members sing in english or Korean or any language, all of their music is BTS' sound. As RM would say, their english discography is a part of them as much as their korean or japanese discography. Their past sound and their present sound, all of those sounds are their sound. and i support that. thanks for keeping us in check army! 💜💜💜
I think a lot of people have become very sensitive to the "seeking western validation" criticism, to the point that they jump on anything they perceive to be part of it. The frustration is understandable , but we need to be more judicious about it as a fandom. It was clear to me that Therese was talking about her own preferences for genre/sound/etc. Like, I prefer JK's ballads like Still With You or a jazzy pop song like Standing Next to You over the more EDM-based songs like Euphoria. I liked most of Golden, but I also hope he explores a bluesy or rock sound someday, he'd kill it (based on that cover of Jungle for the Coke ad).
I don't have a problem with you having your personal opinions as to what style of music you prefer or not - and agree that it's not about the English. I tend to prefer BTS's less poppy music - and Golden is very poppy. I personally prefer the more introspective, and even more emo, side of BTS and also tend to really gravitate towards the songs where BTS members were involved in writing - I'm a Suga/Jimin double bias with a pull towards RM - but I'm completely OT7 - I buy their albums, stream, etc. and support all the members in whatever style of music they chose. Preferences are fine and you didn't overstep IMO.
Jungkook doing English pop music makes perfect sense, it is super authentic to him when you know him. It’s what he loves and what he listens to. It’s what he does best and why he received so much love with his solo debut.
You guys should totally check out Still with you and Stay alive! Jungkook has been my bias for a long time and I love how he is able to pull of so many different genres seamlessly
I'm seeing people argue that all of the members' songs are part of "BTS' sound" and I just thoroughly disagree. In fact, I think that does a disservice to Chapter 2 and fails them as soloists. RM's music sounds like RM. Jungkook's music sounds like Jungkook. j-hope's music sounds like j-hope. Only BTS' music sounds like BTS. The whole point of them doing their own thing as soloists was to define their own sound separate from BTS. Not for better or worse...just to have an identity of their own. Something that was theirs. And a lot of them went very far off of BTS' sound. BTS has never done anything that sounded like MORE. BTS has never done anything that sounds like Like Crazy. BTS has never done anything that sounds like Slow Dancing. And that's fine because they're not BTS songs. I think the fact that all of them have such different sounds makes their BTS sound even more special. It's like we get 8 completely unique artists with one group of boys! OT7 ARMYs will support each member's albums (we better, anyway!!) but not every project will resonate with them the same. That's fine. If you take a random person of the street and play them Layover and RPWP, they may love RPWP because it's eclectic and indie and hip hop while they don't love Layover as much because they're just not a jazzy, slow song person. So the odds of ARMYs equally vibing with every album is slim, too. As long as they don't question the members' creative decisions and support their projects with streaming and sales regardless of taste, I think that's fine. And again, it's totally fine to say it doesn't sound like BTS. Because their solo albums aren't supposed to sound like BTS. They took on solo projects because they wanted to do something that sounded like themselves. And we got 7 very different sounds.
22:38 everything bts and members do is BTS sound, cause it's them who do it. They never had THE sound. Also, it is such hypocrisy of kpop stans to say "westernised" sound, when all of kpop is done with west sounds, using west producers since the beginning. Kpop is not genre of music and most of yall forget it.
for me ..its the capability of jk with his voice .he can ate every genre.plus he can sing anytime..every where ..every genre.thats why he love singing live.also he can play with his voice..from low..high..speed..sad.we can feel the song just from his voice .effortless...same for his dance.very sharp..his personality from cutie cookie to savage jungkook.his stage presence really got me.overall he & bts my ultimate bias
I made a clarification in the pinned comment if you care to check it out, but you're absolutely right. BTS sound is every sound they have done. On "westernized sounds" I totally recognize the western producers that work in kpop ARE western, and we can hear a lot of similar sounds in european pop as well! but I also think there's a musical trend in 3rd gen kpop specifically (since that's the period of time bts is mostly talked about in) that doesn't match the trends we saw in america at that time, so it created a divide between "kpop sound" and "western sound". That line is definitely blurring as kpop gets more of a global audience, so I'm excited to see what comes in the future! -Therese
I disagree. And I think that idea fails them as soloists. RM's music sounds like RM. Jungkook's music sounds like Jungkook. and BTS' music sounds like BTS. The whole point of them doing their own thing as soloists was to define their own sound separate from BTS'. Not for better or worse...just to have an identity of their own.
It's not a "BTS sound" when they do solo albums. They are unique individuals separate from BTS, having their own sound was the whole point of the solo break they took. Jungkook obviously prefers pop music.
I get very frustrated when people think JK has to sing what THEY want him to sing. I feel like in the movie “Dirty Dancing”, Nobody can keep JK in the corner. He is going to experiment and try new things. I admire him taking the chance to sing in all English. I’m thankful I grew up listening to all kinds of music and I like most things. I love metal, rock, pop, Country… I’m so happy I’m not a person who wants music to fit in a small box.
same tbh im thankful i understand bts music BTS does not have certain sound it is like advdenture same with their solos jungkook did what BTS does in his own way experiment and try new things that is what real artists do
@@Kookiepookie2025 indeed & he win.but not everyone like it of course .his goal is he want to tried all genre with his voice like bts did.RM done song "i know "wth jk.he sound good & "4 oclock" with V..also good .u just have to try
agreed, i think he does pop VERY well, and from what we've heard in his soundcloud songs he can move fluidly between different genres. I'm sure he'll continue exploring and creating the music that interests him. I haven't checked out Never Let Go yet, we're probably going to add it as a reaction on Sunday but I'm excited to see where it will go! -therese
Tbh i don’t love everything they put out but i don’t hate any of their music. Some are just not my style or vibe but i can still appreciate them all cuz i know how hard they work on their art. I love and support all 7 but i also have biases and i think that’s ok.
it's completely natural to not love everything since, like I've told ppl so many times, everybody is different in so many aspects. "...𝘽𝙪𝙩 𝙮𝙤𝙪 𝙬𝙤𝙣'𝙩 𝙨𝙚𝙚 𝙥𝙚𝙤𝙥𝙡𝙚 𝙥𝙧𝙖𝙞𝙨𝙞𝙣𝙜 𝙤𝙧 𝙘𝙧𝙞𝙩𝙞𝙘𝙞𝙯𝙞𝙣𝙜 𝙩𝙝𝙚𝙞𝙧 𝙘𝙝𝙖𝙣𝙜𝙚 𝙤𝙛 𝙡𝙮𝙧𝙞𝙘𝙨 𝙗𝙚𝙘𝙖𝙪𝙨𝙚 𝙞𝙩'𝙨 𝙣𝙤𝙩 𝙚𝙖𝙨𝙮. 𝙅𝙪𝙙𝙜𝙞𝙣𝙜 𝙨𝙤𝙪𝙣𝙙 𝙞𝙨 𝙚𝙖𝙨𝙮 𝙖𝙣𝙙 𝙘𝙤𝙣𝙫𝙚𝙣𝙞𝙚𝙣𝙩. 𝙄𝙛 𝙮𝙤𝙪 𝙜𝙤 𝙗𝙚𝙮𝙤𝙣𝙙 𝙩𝙝𝙚 𝙨𝙤𝙪𝙣𝙙 𝙖𝙣𝙙 𝙖𝙚𝙨𝙩𝙝𝙚𝙩𝙞𝙘𝙨, 𝙮𝙤𝙪 𝙬𝙞𝙡𝙡 𝙣𝙤𝙩𝙞𝙘𝙚 𝙩𝙝𝙖𝙩 𝘽𝙏𝙎' 𝙡𝙮𝙧𝙞𝙘𝙨 𝙘𝙝𝙖𝙣𝙜𝙚 𝙖𝙘𝙘𝙤𝙧𝙙𝙞𝙣𝙜𝙡𝙮." i think this particular paragraph from boracity magazine says it all. It's easy to not like a certain sound from them, but when their lyricism and the message they convey came into play, I'm positive we're all unanimous in one conviction; It's indisputable. And nobody can say sh*t abt it, unless that someone is a freaking pot stirrer then idk.. bless u ig 😂
I disagree with Therese. All the work that BTS and the members have done so far are different from each other, so they don't have a specific 'sound'. Since I've been an ARMY for 7 years, I've always wanted Jungkook to make an English pop album. The album he made was also excellent. Why should he limit himself to a certain pattern? Sorry for my English.
How old are you Therese? It's always people who are the same age or younger that say that. 😂😂😂 He's going to be 27. Plus the Lotte Family Concert should have changed everything. 😘💜🫰🏻🫶🏻 Golden is meant to follow the life of a relationship. From start to end. What I love is that he did so many different genres and went from the 70s to present.
Jungkook was doing English covers since the beginning. He liked Western sound too. Justin , charlie , harry . All these are great singers. He liked their voice . And he wanted to English Album .so he can experiment to sing in different generes and styles . It gives the artist more opportunity to grows as singer and artist. Some people see superficial think but they dont know what is the idea behind putting something.
i love that BTS can did as many genres as they can its like there's a room for everyone, they never stuck on any particular genres, that's why we love them full support for JK to be the artist he is, he said he want to try every kind of genres in the future that's so cool to think that there's an artist that can do any genres in this era
23:04 people desperately holding on BTS's "koreaness" is such weird thing and such koreaboo thing. It is valid not to like some genre of music, but for englush speakers to "boo" someone who sings in their native language is something really twisted. If JK ever sang in my language it would be best thing that happened to me. Kpop stans somehow always want to keep their faves in a lane they are comfortable with.
I don't really think that's a fair assessment I actually think it's just hard for some fans to put a finger on what they prefer from bts. A lot of longtime fans, like myself, like the English releases but do feel that they lack the same emotional depth as a lot of their korean discography. It may sound like a Koreaboo angle but it's literally just common sense. If an English speaking artist put out an album in a language they're not 100% fluent in, even if their pronunciation is perfect, there may be a disconnect between what the audience can really feel from the song. When the vocalists have material that they or the other members had a hand in creating, whether that be composition, production, or lyrics, I really feel that they connect more with what they are delivering. But I digress and of course anyone is free to feel the exact opposite and again the English releases are all great songs at the end of the day. In my opinion, Jungkook has such amazing vocal ability that he shines most when he's given very intricate or intense songs. Standing Next To You definitely fits that criteria so it's my favorite song on the album but some of the others I felt were not interesting enough musically to showcase his talent.
@@nickismith8611 I think one of the problems with this statement is that you guys are always wanting bts to go deep in every song when sometimes they wants only enjoy the song, I completely disagree with the golden album part because Jungkook clearly made a breakthrough with his talent in this album, he sang notes that he had never done in bts songs so I'd never say that it didn't showcased his talents, this obsession over "kpop singers sing in korean" and that this is the only way of them showing their "true emotions" is actually kinda twisted I mean obviously you can show more emotion in your native language but as I said before sometimes you guys have to only enjoy the song without putting all that "what's the meaning?" I think with bts people created a huge standard of everything means something and that's one of the reasons they got so burned out to the point creating songs were actually hard for them, and it's actually weird that this debate only exists when they're singing in english, I've never seen people complaining when it's the japanese songs, and actually some people even has these albums are their favorites but when it's english all this criteria of "connection with the audience" starts again
@@pamella1285 i agree and i apply that with all members too RM released an album with a very different sound from anything he done but after i gave it a chance i grow to like and im glad he did that a bts Army should know that BTS is ever changing they never stick to one thing
I'm not sure if this is a comment based on something I said or a separate thought but I feel the need to clarify anyway so apologies if I'm preaching to the choir -Therese I have no issue with the album being in English, I think it totally makes sense for this kind of music, it's just the genre and sound I wasn't vibing with at the time. And mostly because of the producers they worked with on this album, the releases they put out usually aren't in my taste. I get why other people would like it though!
@@pamella1285 still I think you’re misunderstand me. I don’t need every song to be deep, there are a plethora of bts songs that I love that are unserious and that’s also one of their biggest charms. I guess it comes down to my preferences which seem to be similar to Therese where I just don’t connect that much to more standard pop music. I’ll amend my statement to say I don’t need their music to be in Korean but at the end of the day I just prefer other genres so I’m never gonna be the target audience of songs like PTD. Also, people always take musical opinions that are opposite of theirs to mean that you don’t think the singer is still one of the most impressive and talented musician alive which is a bit frustrating sometimes
That's just so weird when people complain about JK and BTS singing in english. They have no specific sound. And if they want to experiment and sing in english so whatt.I never hear anyone complaining when they sing in japanese..
I don't believe we complained about them singing in English? although apologies if this wasn't directed at us. We talked about their English discography in comparison to their Korean discography because they use different producers for each, and their Japanese discography is also different in similar ways. But I do prefer hearing them communicate in whatever language they're comfortable communicating in. However they want to express themselves, as long as it is genuine it just hits. -therese
The only people complaining abt Golden is his haters, bitter jealously by his success and they scared of him to take the pop world by 1 korean artist other wise millions of Jungkook lovers enjoining golden album. His success is a good example. Army which is other members stans are very very mad because their fav doesn't have that much talent, success,popularity etc so his antis stay mad.
Jk having English song make much more sense than bts have English song, because if you know him he always fan of pop,he used to be believer(jb fan),he also love Ariana music,he did many english song cover than korean song,he always talking about he wants to be giant superstar and want to do all genre,nobody or anything cannot stop him,deal with it
I disagree. BTS doesn’t have a characteristic sound. Their sound is the fact that they do everything and their music is diversified. You may not vibe with some but doesn’t give you the right to invalidate their identity as musicians
We can agree to disagree! I definitely hear musical elements that are similar around the producers they use such as Pdogg, Slow Rabbit, EL CAPITXN. I think it's apparent the direction Jungkook wanted to go in Golden, the style is not to my personal taste but it happened to be Alex's taste! We're not invalidating their identity as musicians at all. I definitely disagree with that point, it seemed overly harsh. -therese
He's sent to LA to learn dance with their in house choreographer ( now the performance director) for 2 - 3 weeks long, i think he also said the program is so successful that now they still did this with their trainees.
@@AudioAddictionmedia I'm sorry i don't really remember the exact source,i know the fact he's going to LA from old videos as I've been following them since debut,but i think mr son said bighit still send the potential trainee there is in the documentary film or his own interview,
@@AudioAddictionmedia they released vids from the training & development section of the agency. RM did some ads promo with them before enlisting. It was 4 vids i think. I forget the exact name sorry. But in them they share they use the training Jk did and BTS did to each other because back then there was 10 ppl and no training program. So they developed the training program based on BTS and JK. RM did not seem to know this so he was surprised at the info.
I think the moment that Therese had with Standing Next to You is exactly why BTS is so great! They have so many songs that you can come back to and experience in a whole different way! There have definitely been songs in the past that I didn’t really like or maybe was just meh about and then I heard them live or saw the choreo and suddenly realized how great the song was. And their music 100% hits different in the car vs through phone speakers vs headphones. You can listen to one song in 5 different scenarios and come away feeling differently about the song each time. THAT is what makes them great artists! I honestly felt the same way about this particular Standing Next to You performance. I liked the song but this performance made me LOVE the song.
First time I see an “Army” saying didn’t listen enough to the albums because we as Armys stream a lot so we do listen. They can sing in the language they want and that is not a reason to reject music
You are in this group of "Armys" who thinks that we need to love every song and if we don't love it and don't stream it we are fake. Type of Army that pressure others to do things and making being a fan some kind of work. I didn't streamed 3D with JH because I didn't like it so that's obvious that I'm not a "real Army" right?
...am I the only one who understands where you(Therese) are coming from about being hesitant with Golden? It's not like she said the album sucks and she hates it.😭 Now I loved the album right from the start, but that's ok. Music is subjective, and there is nothing wrong with that(i didn't vibe with SNTY at first, but it grew in me)
I agree tbh...I didn't vibe with not today, also some of joon's new songs but it's ok...it all depends on our preferences and a little bit respect..sometimes it grows on us too!
I had similar thought like you about Golden - simply it was harder for me to get too bc it isn't really my typ of music like very pop, mainstream pop. I love JK r&b song but this was harder album for me to get into, but I loved Shot glass of tears and Hate You from first time. it wasen't about laungauge but genre.
Entiendo que no sea de tu gusto, cada quien es libre de escuchar lo que quiera, yo Amo Golden simplemente porque Jk nos dió muchas versiones de él como artistas en varios generos y si quizas se aleja de la discografia de Bts ( para mi no tanto igual, sino lo que cambia son sus productores y quizas ahi el prejuicio de muchos) pero es eso lo que ellos querian como grupo en esta etapa de Bts ya que cada uno iba a empezar su carrera como solista, son 7 y muy diferentes entre si cada uno tiene su estilo, su preferencia y personalidad y querian expresar su arte individualmente para cada uno explorarse como artista y no estar atado a estandares que los demás les ponen a un grupo que de por si a hecho de todo en estilo musical.. cuando escuchas Layover es Tae, Indigo es Rm y cuando escuchas Golden es Jk y no necesariamente tienen que ser cantautores, también pueden interpretar a la perfección y transmitir de igual manera. Cuando además de escuchar a Bts los sigues a ellos se entiende perfectamente lo que hizo Jungkook es mas el mismo lo dijo, quizo salir de su zona de confort, explorar y crecer como artista y lo quizo hacer en su etapa en solitario. Muchos lo juzgan por cantar en inglés, y si todos amamos a jk cantando en coreano pero no lo rebaja ni invalida querer cantar en otro idioma ademas que él también apuntaba a hacerse conocido en otros mercados y llegar a otros lugares y realmente lo logró, que después haya trabajado con gente indeseable es otro debate.. Otros se quejan de que no escribe sus letras.. muchas de las canciones de bts son escritas por otros autores, o mismo si las escribe Rm o Hobi quizas no representa el sentir de los 7 pero lo hacen excelentemente genial igual, es un cantante de 26 años que creció amando la música pop y quizo hcerlo también, él mismo dijo que les dará a sus fans que aman su música en coreno más material en un futuro. En fin que cante en el idioma que quiere y el género que quiera semenjante artista que es puede hacer lo que el quiera no tiene techo y más si es lo que a él le hace feliz como artista y persona
I don't get the hate Therese is getting here.. i mean i love BTS but there are still some songs i might not enjoy ... Especially sometimes it gets many listen to get used to the sound that you are not very fond of... They do so many genres.. and its ok if we don't like some specific genre.. there is no need for hate here..she was so respectful and nice towards our boys . Lets not create a atmosphere where people can't even express their genuine thoughts ... You were doing great Therese.. i am not fan of long twitch videos.. but i watched these.. because you guys are really putting out great stuff
I totally hear you Therese! I've never particularly liked American pop, and Golden is a lovely exploration and execution of a set of styles that I just...don't like that much. For all that BTS has done a ton of different genres, this album (along with Dynamite/Butter/PtD) *does* stand out to me as different from much of the rest of their work, and I will never like it as much. One thing I haven't heard as much talk about is how different Golden is in terms of lyrical approach. JK mentioned that this album is trying to be relatable to the universal experience of love, and it does that well, and in some cases quite elegantly (I think Shot Glass of Tears has the best lyrics). But it doesn't feel specific or personal to him at any point, and that for me is a huge difference from most of BTS's output. (There's an interesting comparison here to be made to Layover, which also had many different and new producers, but I'll hold off for now). It's clearly exactly what JK wanted to do, and he did it well, but it's never going to feel as meaningful to me as music where they contribute to their own lyrics.
Hi, i am back. Good reaction, ty. Jk's Euphoria is his fav song. This stage is his fav. It was a perfect performance. Jk is the biggest RM stan agree. =0p hehe. JK has said he wanted to be a pop singer so we may get more of that genre from him. I like all their songs. Except ON ft. Sia. That one is a hard pass. Some i like more than others. I am pretty eclectic. I love what i love. Your Eyes Tell is my fav song by them. And Stay Alive is my 2nd fav song. Not sure how they ended up OST's guess its the otaku in me maybe. Hmm. Borahae. -NY USA 2019 Army 💟
I'm not a huge pop fan either, actually Butter ended up gatekeeping BTS for me for a number of years...but Golden isn't strictly pop either. There are also elements of house music - and I love House - I have been to probably too many underground House clubs in SF - so for me Please Don't Change and Closer and then Somebody (which isn't house but it gets that tier for me) - those are my trifecta songs from Golden, but really it's just such a well done album...except for 1 song that was ruined for me bc of the feature (but I won't get into that).
Thank you Therese for making me feel less alone in my less than loving reaction to all of Golden. I also love the BTS Korean songs but am slowly warming to the solo work of Jungkook and the new RM album.
My problem with the Golden album is . pissed that there is nothing Korean in this album. He was matched with Western writers, producers and feature singers. I know he said he wanted to be considered a pop singer not a kpop singer. He did that with the guiding hand of Scoter Braun. It just singers ne that much of the Americsn " entertainment" critics still refuse to acknowledge his ability to turn out this performance. Many American reactors new to BTS are dismissive because they sang in Korean and wore make up, and danced and other racist shit. Then they put out pop stuff and again they were hyper critical. I know that Goldrn is beautifully performed and produced. /
I think kook doesn't care about that and it's good...the people who want to listen will listen and the people who don't want to they won't so it's ok...it's not something to get frustrated over..
