BUCKLER Shields used with TWO HANDED Weapons? 

Dual wielded shields :D

You're not wrong about either of those.

Yep, but I'd imagine a small buckler strapped to your hand is way cheaper than a gauntlet.

It's called Rondels

I wonder how often steel or iron knuckledusters were used. They would be simpler to make and therefore cheaper than a pair of gauntlets (no moving parts), while still providing reasonable hand protection. Meanwhile, you could punch with them if need be. It fact, there are even examples of spiked knuckledusters from Ancient Rome, although I'm not sure if they were ever used outside of the gladiatorial games.

Remind's of Saint Seya's Dragon and Cygnus bronze "cloths" (i.e. armor) that have small shields/bucklers as part of the design of the left gauntlets. I don't like that the center of those shields is in the middle of the forearm, but the general idea works as a basis.

You won't have to draw the shield using an action turn, I think. Can't remember very well

It‘s not DnD but the system I play treats all shields as strapped, probably to avoid the complication of having different times to get a shield combat ready. Maybe not having different rules for every shield was what the authors thought about when writing these rules?

What edition is this?

@@SpruceReduce8854 3.5

Looks like 3,5e for me. Benefit of this tactics is quite big on high levels. If you use 2 weapons and have buckler in offhand you get -1 which is really small penalty. For it you can use 2 weapons and still get all the enchantments you have stacked in your magic mithral buckler. Other bonus you get if you don't have full action to flex all your attacks, e.g. you are closing distance to opponent, and you can do only one attack. You strike once with your main weapon, and get AC bonus from the shield. As for the particular combo of of buckler and 2 handed. I can see it working with any 1 handed weapon that can be used 2 handed for 1,5x STR bonus. Especially bastard sword.

At one point the sword moved down much more quickly than I expected and I was like "DANG DID MATT JUST CUT HIMSELF BECAUSE OF THE AMOUNT OF BUCKLERS?"

Yeah, I play Pathfinder which unfortunately inherited that same mistake. Here's the description of Pathfinder's buckler (which is almost identical to the D&D 3.5e version): "This small metal shield is worn strapped to your forearm. You can use a bow or crossbow without penalty while carrying it. You can also use your shield arm to wield a weapon (whether you are using an off-hand weapon or using your off hand to help wield a two-handed weapon), but you take a -1 penalty on attack rolls while doing so. This penalty stacks with those that may apply for fighting with your off hand and for fighting with two weapons. In any case, if you use a weapon in your off hand, you lose the buckler’s AC bonus until your next turn. You can cast a spell with somatic components using your shield arm, but you lose the buckler’s AC bonus until your next turn. You can’t make a shield bash with a buckler." Pathfinder 2e didn't fix the mistake either: "This very small shield is a favorite of duelists and quick, lightly armored warriors. It’s typically made of steel and strapped to your forearm. You can Raise a Shield with your buckler as long as you have that hand free or are holding a light object that’s not a weapon in that hand."

@@Patrickwardt Aside from completely misunderstanding that bucklers are held rather than worn, that rule is actually quite reasonable. The only issue I see is that reloading a crossbow while holding a buckler seem quite difficult, but everything else sound reasonable.

@@Knoloaify Yeah, the actual rules are fairly decent for what it is depicted as, it's just not really a buckler. The rules would be pretty decent for an actual buckler as well if it wasn't for that last line. You can totally bash someone with an actual buckler, as you're then basically just punching someone with a chunk of metal.

@@Knoloaify Depends on the loading mechanism in question. It should be fine with a goat's foot lever.

@@Patrickwardt props to this guy; I was going to look up the rule in pathfinder as well.

I see an armchair theoreticist n00b when I see one using four bucklers. Every battle hardened vet knows that you must protect head and groin with the 5th and 6th buckler.

@@Slaveknight_gael hey guys look at this filthy casual, I personally like to wear a full suit of armour comprised entirely out of 24 seperate bucklers, I also weild an axe with a sharpened bucker as the head

@@lukesheridan4623 What an inexperienced chump, I leave the house with no less than a hundred bucklers on me. All of them have sharpened edges so they can become frisbees of death.

Where's the fifth one?

I love it. Need More cow bells

It's very much a thing in earlier editions like 3.5, actually. 2nd buckler wouldn't do anything for you, though.

@@naruyashan That rules goes all the way back to Chainmail. It came from Gary and his friends not understanding how weapons and armor work.

Rondel disks?

Ah d&d. So many things you misname.

Alternately, D&D 5e does describe a buckler as a buckler, but it no longer mentions the dual wielding thing: "A buckler is a small metal shield held in a fist grip. As it is not strapped, it can be donned or doffed as easily as drawing or stowing a weapon. Wielding a buckler increases your Armor Class by 1. You can benefit from only one shield at a time. If you are proficient with light armor and with the rapier, then you can wield this buckler with proficiency even if you are not otherwise proficient with shields." I am not really familiar with 4e, so if someone would butt in with a comment on that, I'd be interested to know. It's still nice to see that a buckler's a buckler in the latest edition, though.

Addressed at 1:15

@@MariusLatauskas I don't play 5e, but I tried looking for 5e rules on the buckler and couldn't find anything official. I only found something labeled homebrew (which did have the same text you just quoted). Is there an official source for it?

@@Patrickwardt By default 5e just has a single shield, same with B/X and OSR systems based on B/X (a lot of them). I prefer simple and vague rules much of the time, and always over rules that go into more detail but get it wrong. Those 5e buckler rules sound like someone's homebrew to be honest.

"It's kind of hurting my hand, to be honest." Okay. Now you're just bragging.

"My hand is struggling to keep a grip on the bottom end." CONTEXT!

New pickup line: Hey baby, could you try holding this buckler and Dane axe and let me know how your hand feels?

that sounds interesting . have you remembered yet ?

Bad ending: he forgor

Sounds an awful lot like how Macedonean phalanxes worked in the hellenistic period

@@lindseyfrancesco4 Yes, but consider that the Aspis was designed to be held in that way and not, say, a kite shield. but it works nonetheless

Myth Buckling maybe.

Mythbucklers

Well, the Scottish targe was actually strapped, not boss grip, and also it was frequently the case that they carried a dirk in the same hand as the one holding the targe. Assuming that was meant anachronistically to be a targe. Either way, D&D clearly is not describing a boss grip held buckler.

@@tedhodge4830 3rd edition was unfortunately filled with incorrect names and artwork.

@@StupidAnon-gn8ih yeah, I'm pretty consistently impressed with how functional 3.5 really is once you've really dug into it.

At that point, is it not just a large oversized bracer? But then he still has typical weird JRPG armour that most cookie cuter fantasy anime have.

But still less effective than if he ditched the shield. It's not just a question of can you physically do the motions; it's about how quick and agile you can be with the weapon. Also (assuming it's buckler sized), you gain no meaningful protection by doing that. You can't use the shield as a shield if you're using that hand to control a weapon.

@@Robert399 i didn't say it made sense I just said it would work. Also , in the movie he uses the shield for a pretty sick tactic , I won't spoil it to you if you haven't watched it but he uses it in a way I never would've thought.

@@afinoxi Well it depends what you mean by "work". It's not totally infeasible but I would say that if you're adding complexity/expense *and* it's making things worse, it's not "working" (even if the result's not catastrophic) - it's strictly dominated by a simpler option.

Indeed, in fact Macadonian reenactors have noted that the strap system required for the shield has the added effect of transferring a lot of the Sarissa's weight to the shoulder thus making it easier to wield.

Dutch pikers under Maurice of Nassau used a similar arrangement, as you can see in Adam Breen's 1618 infantry manual.

I think there was a shield that was worn like that in China as well, called an Ai Pai.

I think its inspired by shields like scottish targe. They are bit bigger than buckler, but highland warriors i think were described sometimes to use their dirk on their shield hand as well. Matt actually mentions targes in 1:08

I don't know how much it was used but isn't what you described a targe?

@@Yarblocosifilitico I don't know much about targes but I think they are regular sized shields, whereas D&D "bucklers" would be closer to real bucklers in size

The targe is on the smaller end of shields, but not as small as a bucker held in the hand. Probably between the bucker and the metal straped shield in size

It's the same idea as someone who would invent the "Turtle Shield" which is a medium sized shield that can be worn as a backpack to protect your back like armor, but would only be useful in a tiny niche where you need the versatility to have the options to either have back armor OR wield a shield, while having all the detriments and costs of the shield in a situation where it would be vastly superior to just have back armor of some kind (chain or plate, or even gambeson) and a smaller (cheaper, lighter) shield. I say that to now realize how stupid my idea for a "Turtle Shield" is in my ttrpg. Why not just buy armor and a small shield, rather than no armor and a medium shield? Makes no sense, even if there are monstrous fire breathing dragons.

The D&D buckler is more of a small metallic Targe than a Buckler. But then again those two names were historically sometimes used interchangeably so I guess it's accurate.

They should call it a targe then.

In the TV series Spartacus, the hoplomachus used a small shield strapped to the forearm and their hand was free to use their spear 2-handed. I don’t know if that has any historical basis, but my guess is the creators of D&D drew from the same reference as the show. Especially since you can also use a bow with a buckler in D&D and that would definitely not be possible with a traditionally held buckler

@@hybrid_grizzly Macedonian pikemen used something similar. Their shields were strapped to their forearms with another strap around their necks for better weight distribution.

@@marshallferron I think strict distinction between targe and buckler is a modern construction. It grates me, but I have more issues with studded leather and splint armour that locks up the sides.

More that they were battlefield weapons, not side-arms or private carry implements, and others armed with shields next to you would take care of the defense for you. Also, such weapons use reach management as their primary defense, anyways. You need no shield from an attack that cannot reach you in the first place.

I do wish Matt had picked up his falx while he was doing this. Also it would be worth seeing the rainbow of Asian swords he's been gathering in this experiment. How would a katana or a dao handle, with the less complex grip and guard? Let's be naughty, let's consider weapons... out of context.

No no, it is perfectly healthy, don´t worry!

@@RiderOftheNorth1968 I did open the door I suppose, lol

The amount of metal and craftsmanship that goes into a buckler would be easier and cheaper as metal gloves (chain and/or plate) that would be superior in protecting your hands. I mean just think of the cost of crafting thin strips of metal that go around your finger, or rings of metal, compared to a 1ft+ circumference shield with grip, domed center, and any other features.

Scottish warriors did this with targe & dirk as well.

If the internet has taught us anything, it's that a determined individual can handle a surprising number of shafts 🤷

That was my same observation. A flat strapped hilt buckler. I would assume it would be cheaper to make than a gauntlet, allow for use in both hands, be easier to put on/take off, and just general flexibility as it isn't attached to the weapon like a basket hilt would be. I'd allow my D&D players to use it.

Guards are mostly an imaginary work of fiction in medieval settings. At night, almost everyone would be asleep and/or curfew in effect. A single guard posted in a tower would be able to see any light coming from anyone within miles, without having light themselves, and be able to ring an alarm bell or shout out if they saw anything - because anyone breaking curfew would be a stranger or up to no good - and no one would walk around without some kind of light. And without light pollution, you could see light all the way to the horizon (which would be longer distance if standing on a tall tower). In a huge city with advanced or magical lighting and a much more active night life, I can see guards becoming a real thing - like patrolling police in modern times. At this point, the entire city should be lit up well enough to see everywhere. If guards were being defeated or criminals succeeding due to dark alleys, the solution would simply be to install lighting to remove the darkness in the alley, rather than having the guards carry lanterns. But if Guards needed to carry lanterns, they could always put it on the ground in the dark alley before two-handing their weapon they carried in one-hand, even though guards would most likely carry only casual wielded weapons, not weapons of war, which means longswords or shorter spears at most lethal, but swords and clubs at least. One handed weapons either way, as longswords and spear equivalent lengths can be wielded with one hand, and lantern down with two. So most likely I can see them carrying Club+Lantern or at most aggressive Sword/Buckler + Lantern, but in a fight setting the Lantern down, throwing it at the criminal approaching them, or simply running with Sword+Lantern giving chase because they don't need a defensive buckler when the criminal is running away with their back to them. There's also always the option to simply not approach the criminal in dark alleys, but to give chase if they leave the dark alley. Siege them in the dark alley until reinforcements arrive to the other side. But if the dark alleys are a large area or go on for a long time, then installing lighting that is already in the city would be the answer. So yea, maybe in an underfunded or collapsing empire type of setting, where the lighting is bad bc society is falling apart economically, a lantern-buckler might be a great idea. 1. The guards would exist, bc the city is a renaissance/industrlial style world. 2. The city lighting would be modernized, but large swaths of darkness would exist without the ability to fix the problem. 3. The buckler and aggressive weapon (polearm or sword) would be very popular, as the falling economic results in more criminals and more violence on police. Thus the Buckler-Lantern would be a real thing of importance and popularity among police in such a setting.

@@nowayjosedaniel Except, lantern shields are a real historical thing.......🤔

Its not really as useful as you'd think. The spear itself has reach and mobility which makes it a decent defensive tool. You don't need the weight of a buckler messing with it especially as both require weapon mobility to be be effective .

Why? What's the benefit?

I'm with you. Sure, a spear is a long weapon, but the front hand is often halfway up the weapon. The distance from your front hand to the tip of the spear isn't much greater than the blade of a long sword, so I would certainly assume that hand is a great target for an opponent with a shorter weapon.

@@99Stutz So wear a gauntlet...

@@Robert399 Isn't armor kind of expensive and custom made? A spear is a cheap thing for footsoldiers and commoners, I've just always wondered why some kind of simple hand protection to go with it wasn't common and if that kind of thing was feasible.

This and the spearmen+buckler made me wonder how quickly one can equip a buckler being carried to the side, or if it even can be carried to the side. The buckler would have 0 utility until the spear/bow is dropped and the sidearm is drawn, which results in a faster equip time. But is it fast enough to matter? Humans have two hands and could draw a sword and pull off a buckler at the same time - if the buckler can be easily pulled off the side?