It's these types of videos that benefit so many viewers of this channel. I live in a region of the country that has a ton of retirees that bought these Buick Lucernes and Cadillac DTS' s. Most shops just tell you the relay was melted, replace it, and send you on your way. If youre not so lucky youll have to spend the 300 dollars in parts plus labor to have the entire fuse box replaced. Very very few service writers will alert you to and reference this TSB during your repair. How many of these cars come into dealerships and do not have this fix performed under the knowledge of this problem existing or at the very least have the relay switched out for the lower profile updated relay? Eric O. Always checks the TSB's and fixes the source of the problem instead of just doing the repair. I'll definitely be sharing this TSB with my neighbors who own DTS' s and Lucernes. SMA is awesome!!!
Awesome! I just bought a 2008 Lucerne with only 31k miles. Brought it home and shortly after had the same symptoms. Checked the fuse box and found the same. Glad I saw this video and now know why the relay was burned. Great video. Seems like a fire hazard to me and should be a recall.
I had the same issue twice on my 2009 lucerne both times i reached out to gm and the NHTSA about a recall and there wasnt one but after a few calls and emails gm issued a refund for both repairs.
@@5iftical i got a 09 cadillac dts i bought a new box from g.m. now. It has been blown 😳 no power to my fuel pump period. How to get in touch with the ppl..
@@shanecolston2306 call the nhtsa and open a case..you have to call gm corporate and do the same...but the process was hella slow i had to replace it twice within like 2yrs. And email them pages where other ppl had the same issue before they did anything...
This vid earned a sub! Hell if I lived near you, this video woulda earned you a new customer. The peace of mind having a mechanic you can trust is an overlooked, highly appreciated relationship for any man or woman. My go-to mechanic (and friend at this point) just retired a year ago and I didn’t take those years of knowing exactly what’s what for granted! He had free rein to do what needed, and never attempted once to do anything more. I had no problem if once in a great while I ended up leaving with a 1500-2k bill because I KNEW I could trust his word, his opinion and his work. You also seem honest and not willing to do the job mediocre and I appreciate seeing that. Gives me hope when that day comes and I’ve got no choice but bring her in!
OMGosh. This is exactly the problem I had with my 08 Lucerne. The only complication was that previous owner stuck in a 30 amp fuse. It totally melted down that area of the fuse box. I actually ended up replacing the fuel pump / relay / fusebox. When I saw this video this morning I was really suprised to see my evil buick on the Eric O show!! Thank you Eric for showing my car :) Incidently, These Lucerne's have a terrible ride control. Feels like your driving a truck down the road. I have replaced the front struts and the back struts/springs are actually air ride controlled. Bought the Lucerne from a dealer and it didnt even make it home with it - about 30 miles. I would keep extra 20 ampers in the glove so I could swap them out when they blew. The relay would get so hot that you could fry eggs on it :) I never knew there was a GM bulletin on this problem. I guess I will go out and cut off that latch assembly this week :) Thanks again Eric! Love your videos!!
Watch this video last week and lo and behold a Lucerne gets towed in for the exact problem! Thank you for the video! As a fellow master tech I enjoy your whole process and professionalism!
Thanks so much. I am a technician and rely on help from guys like you. I am a gm tech and familiar with this issue. Been a few years. At an independent now. The owners dont listen nor do they use alldata description and operation, google blogs or youtube etc. Drive me crazy. Lol. Thanks again.
This video helped me big time tonight! I was checking relays in my '09 Buick Lucerne and didn't put a relay back in the right place. I noticed this as I was watching the video and where he was pulling the fuel pump relay from in the first 3 minutes. Thank you South Main Auto Repair LLC
Thank you SO MUCH for posting this! Just fixed my dad's Buick thanks to this post helping me find the problem with the fuse box and showing how to fix it!! Never would have figured this out since I changed tge relay, fuses, fuel pump, etc without finding the problem.
I was just gettin ready to call it a night after a wild night of drinking, but someone just had to post a video, now I must watch video before I pass out!
My second fuse block under the seat just failed. When I first got my Buick Lucerne (2008) I had to replace it. Not again! I spent some time today and rewired a separate external relay and fuse to take care of this problem like others have. Didnt take that long and one of the benefits is that disconnecting my battery reset my TPMS and now it works :) . I had to get this car running today so I actually soldered direct to the relay and used shrink tubing. I soldered about a foot of wire on each leg of the new relay and heat shrinked the relay leads. Then labeled the wires. I had to do the same with the fuse because I didnt have a fuse link available. I will fix that later. Now its running great now. Took it for a test run and went about 10 miles and new relay is no where near as warm as when it was in the fuse block. I recommend doing this (as others have) instead of replacing the rear seat fuse block. Now I have to grind off 5mm of that latch and clean the seats. Should be good to go!
Thanks for this excellent report. It was the exact problem with my car. You replaced the whole fuse box. I only replaced the relay. That worked... for a few days. Then the relay got hot and quit. A friend suggested twisting the prongs on the relay a little to make better contact. Problem solved. Nothing more needed. I've read stories online of many people replacing the fuel pump and other parts. This mechanic has the right fix... at least for me. Thanks again.
I had the same thing happen to my 2011 Lucerne. Helped solve the mystery. it wouldn't act up for my mechanic but stranded me twice. It would work until the relay got hot and would start again once the relay cooled off. Did find out that the fuse box p/n was changed to 84446205 which may have the shorter relay. Thank you Eric.
Thanks for the great video. I had this exact issue with 2010 Lucerne. I used to like my car but the fact that they did not recall this obvious safety issue is of great concern. Think about it: fuel pump shorts out at 70 MPH on the freeway....BANG no engine power. Also the backseat FIRE concern, my grandson sits in his car seat right n the fire / fume zone. Thanks alot GM /sarc/.
As someone from Europe, I can confirm that was exactly 5mm. I measured it with the very reliable eyeball measure stick and it was spot on! Very good job. Good doorclosing action as well. Another success!
You Yanks are good in a lot of things! Sometimes its a bit confusing to hang on with all the measurements but there is always google and after a while you know what is what.
Dude, this is the most thorough video that i have found on this same issue that i am having! I will relace the entire box, just for a confidence factor! Thank you for sharing your knowledge and expertise! I wish you were my mechanic! Thanks again! Very nice work!
Old Buick sales and marketing brochure , New for 2011, right side rear seat heater at no extra charge. Mom drove my Toyota for a couple of months after she totaled her Buick I finally told her I'll give you the Toyota but I want my name off the title before you wreck it and raise my insurance rates, but she had to have a Buick, bought another one and I got my Toyota back. She finally gave her replacement Buick to my sister .... and my sister wrecked it. Amazing brand loyalty. Anyway, I love these videos. Keeping America rolling and food on the table.
Freaking out in the middle of the night, I found this video and an hoping on a prayer that this is what's wrong with mine. Will have to check it in the morning, but either way this is an amazing video to come across. Thank God for good people like you out there! Will subscribe for any future possible car troubles... God forbidding!
It would be hard to find, but at least it isn't crammed in the trunk or the foot well. Those seats look pretty easy to flip-up. Still. That's a huge oversight, seeing how that seat bracket is right in the way.
Never seen a battery and fuse box under the rear seat before! Typically always located in the engine bay for Australian built cars (can't comment on Euro, North American and Asian built cars).
If GM claims that the seat bracket is causing this problem, they should recall the cars and cut the bracket and replace the relay, or pay for the fuse box when this problem arises.
@Black Buick That's funny, as there are plenty of recalls issued each year for vehicles that are out of production. If this was deemed a defect, they would have, but their testing has likely shown that it is outside of the designed use of the rear seat. (ie: weight, loading, etc.)
@Black Buick Likely they pad your work order to pay for parts they take home for personal use. The thieves are thick at a dealership unless their shop foreman or general service manager/director does audits on a regular basis. Some mechanics will take your new spark plugs and send you out on the road with your old ones cleaned up. Regarding the high labor hours, some service drives will quote a higher amount of flat rate hours and then work a deal with the mechanic who will be overpaid if they get a customer to approve it over the phone.
2009 Buick Lucerne same issue no start, fuse box melted . Eric O repaired this the right way. My ex mechanic claimed the fuel pump failed also.( I 'm not buying this .) If a mechanic says the fuel pump failed make them prove it .Have them apply voltage to FP and see if it works. and keep the old parts . Also my ex mechanic did not check or know about the TSB 15-NA-051 and obviously did not make the repair . issue could have recurred . I wish Mr O should relocate near me . (eastern MA )
Now u got me hooked to see whats wrong with the 11 t and c...its like on the tv shows when they say tune in next week for whatever and u cant wait to see it
Thought for a moment that you were wearing the Load Pro tee shirt. That would have been hilarious. Thumbs up video and yet another reason to purchase an oscilloscope. My 84 year old Father in Law has a 2002 Buick Lasabre that stranded him. Local mechanic shop checked it out and couldn't find anything wrong. Within one day it stranded him again. Same local mechanic shop said they were 95% sure it was the ignition module. That is right, 95%. Unbelievable that this shop does a lot of business.
Couldn't find out wat was wrg wit it nobody would help me so I started going threw the you tube channels an clicked on your video did it step by step like you said the fuel relay burned up he started rite up once I got the new fuse box now I can get back to work thank you a million times I'm defiantly subcriben you da man👊👍🤝
Used this video to fix my son's 2011 Buick Lucerne. Fuel pump relay was fried. Bought a new relay. Still no start. Bought a new fuse box, installed it, and it started right up. I trimmed the seat bracket so hopfully it fixes the issue. I appreciate the video.
Hey, did the relay end up frying the fuse box again? Mine did, and I can't figure out what is causing the relay to over heat.. check yours before you end up like me and have to find a new fuse box.
I have been watch most of all your videos while I am recuperating from knee surgery , which lead me to this , I have also been a mechanic for over 40 years and the knees really take a hit with wear and tear. To all mechanics that see this, wear knee protection while having to be on them while working on cars. Being a mechanic its very hard on joints .and the more you can protect your self the better....(off soap box)
another good vid. please make sure you video the diagnosis of the car that the dealer wants a grand to fix. can't wait to hear what the problem actually is.
My dad owned an 02 Caddy DeVille, which is the same car as this. Battery leaked acid and burned a half-dollar sized hole through the bottom of the car. It uses a boat battery too, so very espensive to replace. He thought he would live the retirement dream by driving around in a Cadillac, but he hated that car as it was always burning oil or going through window motors. It did have a comfy ride though.
Good point about the air compressor. I envy your Big Nasty and some of your other air tools, however with my 25 gal tank they wouldn't work nearly as well. Air tools are great, they never need recharging and they often last for decades, with no need to buy new overpriced batteries.
Man Bro.Great video, just had to replace ignition control module,anR&I ignition coils, the coil pack was fried and split in half,my mechanic never saw anything like that, he said after 500 hundred dolars later and fixed it,,do you think that bad seat setup could have been the cause of my problem,i called my local dealer he hasnt heard of the problem then just today, got a letter from gm, informing me of the problem rear electrical center,exactly what your video showed, the recall included my vin number, been doing research on line, lots of folks having fuel pumps burn up, cars stalling,and dying cars, but no gm recalls yet, im a retired gm worker, i know how they roll with type of problems,ignition recalls, wrecks,deaths,etc, whats your opinion, you are very educated on this problems, thanks any advice you might have, kepp on serving the customers, with your honesty and wisdom,thanks again mike
Thank you Eric just help me get my car back on the road. It left me stranded 30 miles away at the tire rack that I got at home swapped the fuse box and back on the road
Fuse block arrived today. Followed your instruction with car on trailer. Fuse block was slightly different (probably newer and fit a Caddy DTS) and only cost $200. Car started fine and we backed it off the trailer. Easy Peasy! Your videos are great!
I’m impressed that you know what a Farrier is. I was a part-time Farrier for some 30 years. Always held a full time job also for the insurance and bennies. I had many regular customers and also went to the horse shows. I did corrective shoes and made all of my own shoes on a 1900’s cavalry forge I picked up at a flee market. I’m retired now and very much enjoy watching you videos. I have learned much from you.
This video save so much time and money. Just got a new relay and it started. I did also shave down the brackets and plan to get a new fuse box, but finding one has been no luck so far. Hopefully the box isn't damaged enough it burns out the new relay.
Thank you so much! I've been struggling with my 2011 buick Lucerne. Had problems going uphill, under low load. Started blowing fuel relays, then the pump went. Changed out the pump.... and now no power is getting to the pump. Changing the fuse box next!
@@lilcjaay7537 I did, and for the fuel pump it turned out to be the fuse box. The other issues I was having turned out to be the torque converter and took out my trans. Kinda pissed since I took it to a trans shop with great reviews when it first started having problems and was told that there was no way it was the transmission. I took it back after the trans went to see if anything could be salvaged and asked why they told me it wasn't the trans after they diagnosed it as the torque converter- their answer was that technically the that part is outside the transmission.
*1) Wipe until clean 2) Pull up pants 3) Flush 4) Wash hands 5) Check step #2* TSB's are obviously for Dealer "Techs". At least it's not mounted *under* the car.
As always good stuff.....fyi-they make some really thick aluminum foil that works great when you need to use something to protect stuff from grinding debris..... Card board works good too but I find aluminum foil easier to mold/manipulate ........and wrap around stuff.. You da man.... Don't leave us hanging on the 2011 town and country misfiring.....!!!!
"Torque to spec"; ha, same way I do it. You're lucky to have a good little helper there, Eric. Sounds like she is a very capable office person for someone so young.
I had my buick die on me driving from my moms house on the highway luckily I felt the power drop and was able to get off the highway before it died completely. Me and my cousin have been stumped by this for a day or so now this video really helped me thank you
The stop lamp fuse is removed from Buicks at the dealer when sold to older folks to prevent blindness to fellow drivers having to stare at brake lights for 57 miles. The left blinker fuse should also be missing per a quiet TSB issued after the 2010 ruling of People -v- Wilhemena Jackson.
Eddie the Grouch: Hey my grandparents are older so stop making silly remarks about the elderly, some do drive a bit slower among other things. But I figure they earned it, and should be respected.
Good thing your grandparents aren't younger. We'd have to check for a tear in the time/space continuum! My parents are now elderly - mid-70's. The stereotypes about older drivers have basis in fact. They've started to collect scratches on the sides and corners of their cars and the trim on the garage has started to get battle-scarred as well. It'll happen to us, as well....
Steve Varholy: You missed the point. It's about Respect, I see it all to often how the younger generation treats the elderly, instead of holding a door open, they push past them. As well as some receptionists speaking down to these folks. Personally when I see it, I tell the offending party to knock it off. Elderly abuse should not be tolerated , after all we too we become old if we live that long.
This is the exact problem I'm having with my 96 suburban (apart from the pressure bleed down after prime). The FPR terminals in the power dist. box are melted. This helped immensely in connecting how a gm FPR works with the backup oil pressure switch, and more importantly why it keeps stalling out intermittently when hot at idle in gear: overheated relay+low oil pressure(210000 miles has a chivy worn out). Bring on the green crusties. Thank you!
I have an 09 lucerne with the same issue. I just installed a new fuel pump and relay. Car still does not start. I've done a little research only to find this is a common problem. I am currently checking to see if I need to change out my entire fuse box as well. Good vid and info.
had a similar problem with a 65 vw bug. the 6 volt battery was under the rear seat. the seat springs contacted the battery posts when someone sat over it. caught the seat on fire. loved growing up in the 70s.
Great video… Really saved me… My fuse board wasn’t too badly scorched… So I was able to replace the module for about 12 bucks and it’s all good… My fuse box does have the mark on the side from the seat clamp… Thanks again
The guys at the Buick parts counter, could not believe that I had diagnosed my no-start issue, down to the relay and fuse box! As I was getting into my car to head home, the GM of the Dealership came running out to stop me and to ask if I would like to interview for a job. Seems that the Parts Counter guys, had told the GM that I would be a great electrical diagnostic technician. I simply chuckled, thanked him and politely declined his offer... Jokingly, I mentioned that I had a Good Buddy by the name of Eric, who may be interested. I also mentioned that had learned everything I know about automotive repair from him!!!😉👍
I just bought a 2011 Buick Lucerne, after watching your video I went out to check mine. Everything was okay but the seat bracket had definitely hit the box so I cut off a little from the seat bracket. You probably save me a lot of trouble. thanks
Never heard of a fuse box under the rear seat. Poor design on fuse box location. They should have put it away from the seat bracket that causes the problem. Great job showing the issue and fix. Love your diag videos.
Sweet! Yeah had the same thing happen on my 08 Lucerne CXS and 08 Cadillac Dts. Both with Northstars both same problem within a few months of each other!! I just pulled out fuse box and pulled out pins on fuse block, and wired a new relay up outside of fuse box. Didnt even have to change the enitre box! Was a cheap fix but still running to this day! Lol
Yes the one he is working on does but the come with different motors… example a 2007 had either a 3.8 v6 or Northstar 4.6 v8 but newer versions (like this Lucerne) switched over to the 3.9 v6. They all have the same fuse block under the rear seat.. all have the same problem with the seat latch putting pressure on fuse block lid causing pin fitment issues, hence causing the relay/fuses to get hot and melt the plastic around the pin.
Likely the female who wrote that service bulletin isn't truly familiar with mechanics, just how to interpret engineer talk then write manuals in lay person language.
I had an intermittent engine stall or dies while driving. Another tech replaced a bad fuel pump and the relay. This was a 2003 Ford Van. It took a while, I found the harness side connector for the Inertia Switch had a burned plastic and a discolored female receptacle, which would intermittently heat up to the point it would open, shutting down the pump. My theory is, the original pump was requiring higher and higher current, which heated the connector socket, causing it to lose integrity. The previous tech had it right changing the pump AND relay, but you also have to account for plug in connectors and switches along the way. Anyway, vehicle is fixed! Seat bracket pushing on fuse box causing damage to fuel pump relay and relay socket. Just when you think you've seen everything............... Why wasn't that fuse/relay box mounted under the hood? Thank you for the TSB and the great video.
I wonder if the other shop knew about the TSB. I get customers that they say they came from other shop but really came from a backyard mechanic or did the work themselves. Then i understand why they didn't know about the TSB
2 things. 1. At 13:05 as you stuff the relay base back into the bracket, it appears that the two plastic halves are not completely mated together. It looks like one side is in further than the other. 2. To trim off the tabs of the seat bracket I used a pair of aviation tin snips. No heat. No sparks. No mess to clean up later.
Great video. I had the same problem. Very helpful. One thing I did differently was I cut the ends off the seat clip with bolt cutters. took like 10 seconds with no sparks.
dude i love your videos, i am having this exact problem right know, except even with a new relay she wont start. tried holding the relay switch closed while starting the vehicle nothing. something else must have failed as well. any way keep up the good works
This video is the exact reason why I own a Toyota Camry, Gm poor design. Love watching your videos, learning a lot, enjoy your enthusiasm. I laugh when you pull out the brake clean, Thank you for sharing your knowledge
08 Lucerne died on trip from Iowa to Texas year ago...2018. Had the car a year...drive about 100 miles a day for work. Never an issue. Got towed into Chevy dealer in Muskogee, OK. Had to replace this fuse box and fuel pump. Also had them replace battery. $2k+!! I found video on this problem on RU-vid. About 6 months later I get letter from GM saying they'll pay for repairs IF car has been in service less than 10 years and under 120k miles. :-( Really sucks...GM could have replaced that taller relay with the shorter relay anytime...they knew about problem for years. By time we paid for repairs, rented a car, motels and a trip back down to Muskogee the next weekend to pick the car up, this simple thing cost us over $3k!! Sucked!!
That instruction was probably there because some guy at the stealership closed the door first and then couldn't figure out how to put the seat cushion back in.
don't get me wrong, but your country is famous for illarious court instances because it wasn't in the manual like the cat dried into the microwave owen, so those silly instructions are there for a consequence
Reminded me of those old time air cooled VW bugs with the battery under the back seat... and how important it was to use only the correct battery and install the little plastic seat spring guard/shield gimmick. And a side note: As a kid c. early 70's I installed batteries for a while at a big busy Sears auto center... we had a bug in once that had it's battery corrode/rust it's way completely through the floor. All that was left was part of the battery top, dangling by the cables... hippy dippy owner said she'd been push starting & driving it that way over a month. Scrounging suitable materials to beef up the floor area under old time bug batteries was not uncommon...
I would have went for a new fuse box myself. It costs more but you have the peace of mind of it being new and untouched. Sometimes a used part is just buying another problem. Especially electrical parts.. Bad design GM..
Hi Eric & Hanna You had me anticipating another trip to the salvage yard but then just ordered a new Box. Salvage yard trips much more interesting. Keep up the good work
I hate to say it, but everything we have on the net related to these relays on the Lucerne is inaccurate. I added an extra 30 amp relay to the positive leg going to the pump, and the added relay also gets very hot. So GM has no definite answer for us. I'm not contradicting SMA, I posted my concern on here because I know he has a huge following.
Flat rate. System rewards them for being quick over accurate. Sure they could make somewhat more money for being quick and accurate, but it's good enough just to be quick.
Simon Rawle if you don't wanna pay for diagnostics fees then you get what you get. Most people avoid reputable shops in order to "save money". It's a gamble. Identifix is the way to go
thats not wot im getting at . i dont mined paying more wen the job is done rite the first time . but there is a lot of shop that just throw parts at the cars rather than digging deeper to fined the cause of the problem. that is wot i like about eric o he makes sure he gets it rite before making the call on the fault
I fixed this problem permanently.. don't need to replace the fuse box... and the seat does not cause the problem... The rely failure is caused by the fuel pump's momentary high current draw; it causes the relay to overheat. These mini relays are not for heavy duty applications. Momentary current draw on fuel pump side of the relay at instant start up exceeds capacity of relay. The relay is controlled by the ECU, which stops and starts the fuel pump every few seconds to maintain proper fuel pressure. The constant opening and closing of the relay points causes overheating and burning. The heat causes the relay receptacle to melt. I solved problem by outboarding a 40 ampere double pole relay (old 740 Volvo relay) to control the fuel pump. Plus I added 5 one ohm 25 watt resistors with built in heat sinks in series on the power supply side feeding the secondary side of the relay.. the side that feeds the fuel pump. This knocks down the momentary start draw by a fraction (~1 volt). You need to do both of these things to affect a permanent solution. The resistors are mounted to the floor of the car ahead of the fuse box. This helps dissipate the heat. Hint: If the relay contacts buzzes when the fuel pump actuates, eliminate a resistor to increase the resistance. If resistors get too hot, put a couple in parallel. Unless you have a resistance box, you'll have to finesse the exact resistance value.. too much and the fuel pump won't work. I made jumpers to connect the external relay to the corresponding mini relay locations in the fuse box. Cost: Resistors $10, Relay free( junk drawer), relay socket $5. $15 total
Old post I know. But having my Lucerne other than this issue not a bad car by any means. Driving home with the family almost 2 in the morning in a rural area and your car dies out of nowhere is very frustrating and kids wigging out. I knew i Of the common problems. Always in the back of my mind. Definitely not worth it. Time to find something else for peace of mind.
Dang !!!!!!!!!!!!! Dealing with this right now on my 08 Lucerne. Of course it happened away from home. Had to leave it at dealership, but they were getting me for almost $500 for new fuel pump. :-(
