It takes just a second to align roller stands close enough to perpendicular to avoid negative effects of pulling from misalignment James. Also: done properly, a slight drift towards the ripfence during use can actually help get more accurate rips in the same way cars steer better with a slight 'toe in' in their alignment. While an outfeed table does work well where shop space isn't an issue, many people have a small-ish shop that needs to adapt to diverse project types and related workflows, so dedicated outfeed tables are much more hindrance than help IMHO.
@@NextLevelCarpentry I do like your elliptical guild shape. I'd just use those without the roller. Slight bump & your fighting drift.. I'm close to 50 years of sending it through the table saw & the only frustration has been fighting those #$@&$#@ rollers!!
@@jamesrussell6870 A shop big enough for a dedicated outfeed table is definitely an ideal setup for working with sheet goods so I understand your preference. FWIW The way my GROATs are designed there is no discernible 'slight bump' even though it seems like there might be. Where roller alignment is concerned, I've been using them without frustration for over 20 years because 'drift' is a non-issue when I just eyeball them into position. I also understand 'fighting those @!#$!@#$ rollers!!" too, but only when trying to use them without the unique 'tangent ramp' design feature. That ramp makes GROATS an excellent solution, not only in a small shop for sheet goods but for long pieces (like making custom millwork in 16' lengths) in any shop or, more importantly, on jobsites where an outfeed table isn't an option. They surely could be used without the roller but I feel it's unnecessary, plus, when working with heavy material like construction lumber, beams, etc., rolling action virtually eliminates sliding friction making use effortless IMHO.
I worked for mechanical contractors. We had a Milwaukee Chop saw that also use a carbide blade. They are amazing saws and the blades that used to around $150 held up really well if people did not abuse them. The Milwaukee used to cost around $5-600... We had two of them. I think there's was a 12" blade if I recall correctly. We cut 4" schedule 40 steel pipe, square tube, angle threaded rod. They were great. Yours with the bigger blade is even better.
I had that same Milwaukee unit you describe and was disappointed that they discontinued it some years back. Evolution is the only brand I found that even came close to specs and performance and not Evolution has raised the bar Milwaukee set with one model that operates like a wood cutting miter saw where the saw pivots for angle cuts rather than just the fence like the original Milwaukee and the Evolution model seen in my videos.
You are indeed a patient man, Marty! FWIW Coincidentally, episode #2 of the series drops tomorrow (Saturday) morning 6:00 am MST... hope you get a chance to check it out....
For anybody who hasn't used these roller stands the problem with the conventional one is, you are forced to adjust the height lower than what is optimal, because the board sags and runs into the roller instead of going over it. This is a fantastic idea and I plan to rig something up on my cheap Harbor freight roller that I've had for about 10 years. I think I'm going to make the ramp out of a piece of quarter inch underlayment. I'd like to figure out how to put a curve into it. Maybe try water and some clamps. Angle grinder he has made by metabo by the way is not the same company as Metabo HPT. The tools that say Metabo without the letters at the end are a German company and those tools are actually made in Germany. I have a really old, over 20 years old Metabo angle grinder that looks similar to his, only mine looks older and more beat up, that thing is still very smooth and it is a total beast. In fact you have to really hang on to it. I never thought I would use an angle grinder as much as I do. The tools that say Metabo HPT are actually Hitachi tools with a new name which are still okay but not on the same level as original Metabo.
Groats! At last! Great, Matt. I think we’re all very excited about this series. Like you, I started as woodworker and adopted metal fabrication out of both interest and necessity. This roller stand is by all measures the best of its kind anywhere! I can this with some authority, as I’ve looked for, tried, and built an astounding number of far less useful roller stands on my somewhat shorter woodworking career. Thanks again for a great offering!
Thanks for watching and commenting on this one Chuck... anything you do to cross promote and share this episode is greatly appreciated. Let me know if/how you tackle the build since your perspective from "an astounding number... of... roller stands" would be meaningful from a content producer standpoint. Best, Matt
Thank you. I really enjoy your long form format. There’s lots of RU-vid shorts on carpentry that I enjoy - but it’s videos like yours that really help me learn. Thanks! I just joined your Patreon!
You're welcome Brian... saw a notice from Patreon about your joining up... thanks. Sent you a greeting message from Patreon too. FWIW I responded to your question on the cabinet build there and will respond once you've seen that...
Great series, really enjoy the episodes, I hope you have patented these rollers, they work really well, made a coy of the originals, no more roller stands falling over!! Here in Scotland a groat is an ancient silver coin
wow these are amazing. anyone that is a woodworker knows how necessary these are! can't believe I've missed them on you videos. ill admit, had I not seen your video, I would have continued to struggle with long boards, wide boards, etc. NO MORE lol. Im making these babies. Thank you Matt.
Good luck with your build, whatever it consists of and whenever you get to it, I think you'll long appreciate the time/expense/effort involved, I know I have! Best, Matt
Hi Matt. Brilliant idea. Episode two just came up on my feed but e one never did so I zoomed over here first. Spot on with the demonstration without the ramps, that can be so annoying. Love the way the lumber just slides on and off. Tony
Thx Jerry... I hope the other episodes are less time consuming and I can crank them out in a decent time frame because life and work have gotten crazy busy in recent weeks🥵
@@NextLevelCarpentry To be honest, when I watch your videos I lose track of time. They seem to go fast because they cover quite a bit of interesting ground. Keep on keeping on!
Thanks for the sub David. Sorry I've not completed Episodes 3, 4 & 5 yet so if you get stumped on the build before those episodes upload just ask a question in a comment and I'll try to help...
I think Version 2.1 should add a locking hinged roller for fold-up storage. That way, the height can stay the same without adjustment. Or a spring-detent to adjust and lock height from tablesaw to bandsaw or jointer... Nice work, NLC!
Interesting suggestions... I like the way you think! I always feel that if I'm the smartest person in the room that it means I'm in the wrong room! 😉😂😎 Best, Matt
They look great but the metal work is above and beyond my capabilities so I'm going to try to fabricate it out of wood I have two roller stands I'm just going to put the incline plane on them
You picked up on the main takeaway from the video... a simple inclined ramp will take you a long way in the right direction, Rich, with far less time, effort and expense involved IMHO. You GO!! 😎
13:04 Hey, I've got one of those tools. Used it a couple times and it really came through for me. Bought it when Matt first introduced them years ago and glad I did.
Thanks for the testimonial Bob... much appreciated. That makes you someone who knows just how long this build series has been in the works! Not every video has to wait on a tool to be invented, produced, marketed and promoted before being released, right?! 😉😎
Thanks Greg, especially considering you know a good deal of the backstory on these! I hope it stirs the pot of S.I. sales as the episodes come out and more people are exposed to a practical real world application for our little creation... 😎
Long prototype testing period. Great idea- I often use those rolers, and understand the need for improvements. I have no free space in my van for larger rollers- but might build a couple for the shop. Thank you for explaining how.
I don't do as much site work as I used to but I can tell you a pair of these stands is more than worth the little space they take up when collapsed. I take at least one in my pickup on job sites and that single stand is a big part of the reason I don't need to pay an assistant all day for just a few cuts on the table saw. Like any good roller stand they also work very well as a table extension for a miter saw to support long pieces of trim Etc. Hope it works out for you too build a pair to make your life easier... 😎 Best, Matt
Love the Tshirt change as you stressed "to the next level" 🙂. But I love that this is a five part series. Honey, what are you watching? Oh how to make a stand. So you'll be done in 30 min? Oh No! It's at part series! Lol. But I may try this with bent/waxed plywood or plexiglass supported with a frame underneath
FWIW A long time patron/subscriber of Next Level Carpentry actually made a very functional GROAT using Russian Birch plywood truss-frames to create a ramp of the same radius with excellent results. As you saw, the V 1.0 stands I used for 2 decades worked great with 1/4" MDF ramps (although MDF is extremely difficult to bend to that radius) so thin plywood, plexiglass or even sheet metal would certainly get the job done. Good luck with your build! Best, Matt
@@msplxpOh, that's YOU! Your patience is most exemplary! FWIW my long-range plan is to produce the master Carpenter sawhorse video after this roller stand build is over... 😎
Thank you sir. Great video once again. I appreciate the additional information you provide. Don't know as I will tackle this one on my own, but might get some help with the metal fabrication at some point. Blessings to you sir. Thanks again.
My plan is to convert two existing roller stands by changing just top - so curved ramp+roller, but little or no metalworking. I see other comments that are similar! However, love your content, and will be watching all the episodes, and yeah, you'll likely talk me into doing it "right" !
On the contrary Quin, something I anticipated is that a lot of people already have plain roller stands and making a GROAT head for an existing stand is just practical thinking. I think the main limitation is the design of some stands where the support post is at an angle instead of vertical and I think adapting to that would be trickier but might still be doable. I'm naturally biased towards my design but I don't see any adaptation as right or wrong, just different. Hope your build goes well and that you take full advantage of the stands design while working on your projects. Best, Matt
@@NextLevelCarpentry I have the Harbor freight El cheapo roller stand I have an idea for retrofitting a ramp. I'm thinking I take a piece of hardwood "1x, the length of the roller and about 2 and 1/2 in wide. Then I cut a square hole at the proper angle, because the vertical square tube is at a slight angle. That piece is going to slip over the square tubing right below the roller. Then I will put a set screw through the edge of the plywood and through the square tubing in the back of it, just to keep it from sliding. Then I will make a curved ramp out of a piece of underlayment or something. Then I have to figure out a way to be able to make a quick attach and detach system for the plywood ramp. I would just leave the wooden piece permanently attached since it's not very bulky. This is probably going to be a lot more work than it looks like. But I am poor so that's why I'm going to make it instead of buying. A lot of people would prefer to just buy it. The style of roller stand I have is pretty popular, and I bet you could design a retrofit ramp system that you could sell for a lower price and afford to make more cheaply. Actually I just figured out how to do it where I have a quick detach system.
Matt, I'm defiantly going to watch this series. I never really paid attention to the roller system, version 1.0 until now. I was doing some table saw work on a project a few years ago and was having an issue with the floppy stock I was cutting. My out-feed table was just something I threw together for another project I was working on, but it didn't work for the project with the floppy stock. I had just finished a commercial bathroom and had some scrap FRP in the shop that I hadn't thrown away yet. I took a piece, smooth side up, and fastened it to my makeshift table with the end dangling a few inches off the table. It caught every floppy piece I sent through the saw. I am 66 and semi-retired after 46 years of pounding nails. Now I want to do some woodworking. I have never had a proper shop as I did whatever I had to do on the jobsite however I could. Just so you know, I worked for a small company that owned a lot of historic commercial and mixed-use buildings doing building, repairs and maintenance for 40 years. Now I want to build some fun projects.
Interesting story Roy, I worked for about 13 years for a similar company and used a lot of similar informal ad hoc methods on the job site to get done what needed doing. Your FRP ramp as a result of the exact same problems I encountered and I suspect if you had more of it to do more often you may well have invented the GROAT before me😎 Anyways good luck with setting up your shop and I do hope you enjoy the work more when you want to do it then back when you had to do it👍👊👊💪 Best, Matt
@@NextLevelCarpentry Thank you for replying to my comment Matt. As I reflect back to 1975 when I started working full time, I wonder how we did what we did and how nice the jobs came out. I worked for a GC and the crews I worked on built the house or addition. We poured the footings and foundation, shingled the roof and everything in between. We often set up a "shop" in the living room and built the cabinets. The doors and frames came to the job, and we cut, mortised, drilled and all of that, no pre-hung doors. I'm in Maine and have scribed a lot of birch plywood to field stone fireplaces and chimneys. No caulking allowed. I was very fortunate that the old guys liked me, and I respected them. I learned a lot from them. Now at 66 I am still working part time when a job comes along that I want to do and am able to do. I still love being a carpenter.
@@royordway9157 that's crazy. I too started carpentry work in the 70s doing roof tear offs and insurance work for a company that repaired fire damage. Took a five-year detour and did Auto Body and Fender work which is where I learned how to weld but then it's been back to bending nails ever since. Turns out we are the same age but I'm not as smart as you because I'm still doing work on harder jobs than I need to but just don't know when to quit🥵😂😎 Hope you find more fun interesting or informative stuff on Next Level carpentry as you continue to follow your passion for carpentry.! Best, Matt
@@royordway9157 I'm 58 years old and after over 25 years of doing carpentry work, and almost everything else involved in building and restoring houses, my body is pretty beaten up. You know what this work does to you. Anyway I'm wanting to get my garage turned into a proper workshop to make really nice woodworking projects. I've always done a lot of finish work so that should give me a lot of preparation for this type of carpentry. I've already made a few furniture pieces and I've done a lot of custom built-ins. One thing I found out is the little job site table saws are not great for fine woodworking. They don't have near the accuracy of something that weighs 500 plus pounds. With a good blade and saw calibration you can kind of get by.
So far I'm up to the part where you start cutting the steel with the saw. That's a great tool, but I wonder if the right blade on a bandsaw would do the job without the investment in the Evolution. Lots of woodworkers already have bandsaws.
The guy I hire for steel fab when I don't do it myself uses a dedicated horizontal bandsaw for cutting 100's of parts for railings which tells me a properly set up bandsaw is definitely a great alternative.
@@NextLevelCarpentry The machine shop where I worked summer and part time fifty years ago had a horizontal bandsaw to cut stock to length. As I recall the blade was very wide, at least an inch. There was also a vertical bandsaw with a typical narrow bandsaw blade used for some specific jobs, copper and fiberglass stuff. With the right blade it could have handled some steel.
Chris, Stay tuned for comments on this video because I am actually working with a patron and subscriber who is writing a blog post about an adaptation he made with wood for the same reason the concept makes sense for a lot of other viewers. When his blog post is complete I will pin it to the top of the comments for viewers like you to consider and evaluate... Best, Matt
After I make one I think I'm going to wax the ramp so that the wood slides up it really nice. I'll put a few coats of polyurethane varnish on it first.
Finally! So glad you are tackling this project for us Matt. I have been waiting for you to release your build videos of these special tangent roller stands. It would be amazing if you decide to market these to those of us who lack the opportunity to pursue metal working and metal fabrication skills. Thanks Matt--can't wait for the rest of the videos in the series.
Super Thanks back atcha Bill! Your 'gift' makes a bright spot in an otherwise routine busy day and is greatly appreciated! Hope it reflects value you found in this and other videos here on the Channel? Best, Matt
Brilliant job. I have the UK version of the Evolution cold cut saw, brilliant bit of kit. I cut loads of 3" I beam and angle steel with it, blade lasted ages. For some reason they didn't put the quick release clamp on the UK version but it was on the US one, the base is a newer design on yours too. Like yourself I dabble in woodwork and metal though metal is more my thing thought I am an electronics engineer. Looking forward to the next parts.
Thanks for pointing out UK/US differences Richard. it can be a little confusing in the online marketplace to figure out which which is what sometimes but the bottom line is it's definitely a 'brilliant bit of kit'! I wonder what differences are geographic and which are model/year changes... Best, Matt
@@NextLevelCarpentry When I bought mine the US & UK one was the same apart from the quick release clamp and the US one being 110/120V? No preset holes for angles. The base looks much improved on yours. Mine is very square edged.
@@richardballinger517 Interesting. When I first started looking at Evolution the saws had a 'clamshell' style blade guard: actually two pieces that opened/closed at the bottom of the blade. I was kinda bummed out when they 'upgraded' to the typical style on the model I got. Oh well, no stopping design evolution at Evolution, right?
Actually these are not made for sale anywhere at this time. I'm looking for someone who is interested in becoming a sanctioned manufacturer and seller of the design though and will post links if and when I find that person. In the meantime the intent of the video is to provide viewers all the information they need to make a pair or possibly have a pair made...
As I'm watching this, I'm wondering how to adapt this concept to the Rockwell Jawstands I bought some years ago. I like the Jawstands better than rollers, because I've found rollers have a tendency to want to pull the board in one direction or another if they aren't set-up square and parallel. Guess I'm going to have to go down into the shop and stare at them for a bit. Love the ramp concept ...
Great minds think alike... you might find this blog post by a Next Level carpentry Patron interesting and useful: www.trueblade.com/blogs/news/building-a-wooden-groat-outfeed-roller-stand If you do please drop a line to the blog's author to show appreciation? FYI my main video production computer has been out of commission for a few weeks which has drastically delayed all video production for the channel and the next episode of the growth video in particular. Best, Matt
Nice! Your videos should be seen by more watchers. May I repost your channel without changing anything on the clean platform named Ganjing World? Thank you!
I‘m a woodworker who dabbles in metalworking when necessary. I have a dry abrasive cut chop saw for metal. Is it still beneficial to turn the square tubes on angle, or is that only true for the evolution style saws?
When cutting with either type saw I prefer to 'attack' the narrowest profile because it cuts faster and more efficiently. It also generates less heat which extends the life of carbide teeth and is less likely to make abrasive blades 'glaze over' when molten metal clogs the grit. Making sure the workpiece is clamped firmly and securely is very important with either type of saw to prevent cutting force from catching and flinging it.
@@MD-en3zm in the past I used a wooden V block for orienting square tubing on a diagonal for quicker cleaner cuts... it's pretty simple to make a v block out of a chunk of wood that works as a great accessory for cutting metal. Let me know if that makes sense?
Great idea! I hope you don't mind, I put a link to this video on my Twitter account. I have a total of 4 (four) followers so I hope you're not swamped with new followers!
Thanks for sharing this to your audience... will you share the link to Episode #2 too? Don't want all those fans to 'unfollow' you, now do you? FWIW that's 400% more followers than I have on the platform so I'd say you're crushing it! 😉🤣
@@NextLevelCarpentry Yep, definitely crushing it! I finally put up the link for Episode #2. I would have done it sooner but I had to replace the hard drive on my PC twice in one week. Lots of fun! Thanks again.
@@PCJ52 One PC hard drive failure for me set me back a couple months so I feel your pain... thanks for sharing the links in midst of a digital tempest!
If I came across this video in the middle of the night as an infomercial and you ended with…. just 5 easy payments of $59.99 to get yours today! Order now and we’ll throw in a second Groat!!! I’d bite.
I think the biggest tradeoff of wood over steel would be 'bulk' but agree it's totally doable. In fact, a Patron of the channel sent me photos of a GROAT he made using Russian Birch 'trusses' to form the ramp with excellent results. The only downside to me was bulk but, for his particular situation, extra bulk was actually a plus. Go for it!! BTW if you actually get into it I can probably set you up with a few photos of his build as a guide for your project... Best, Matt
@@NextLevelCarpentry I like your channel for the techniques, Ideas, and experience without the hype b.s. For me personally, wood working is more about figuring out the project and building it. So, I'm quite unlikely to ever get plans or even want extra photos. Once you demonstrated the idea of it, I got it. So the idea part took all of 12 seconds in the video but still watched it for the techniques and experience. Anyway, I've got it mostly worked out. Just trying to come up with a better height adjustment mechanism then the wedge method (don't want a third piece).
I've just got to work out a good platform for selling plans and welcome your interest in them. Do you have any plan selling sites to recommend that you've used and liked? Whether or not you buy a set there's always Super Thanks for support... 😉😎
Hey Robert, The leg leveling cam you see in the video is not something I purchased but something I designed and made specifically for the GROAT. It's made out of a piece of half inch thick HDPE plastic which I will demonstrate an episode 5. I welcome your interest in Patreon. Just look through links in the description for this video which is found just below. You probably have to click on the words "show more" to expand the list and find the patreon link lower down in the listed links. Hope that helps with both your questions... Best, Matt
It's a W&H Bruce... you can get a pretty in-depth look at it in action in this NLC video: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-zlHYWUyYJho.html Oddly, while I can tell you it is a very impressive machine, the Williams & Hussey company? Not so much.🤨 Just sayin'. Best, Matt
Considering I just got into woodworking, I'd rather not invest in a bunch of metal working stuff just to have these roller stands. I'd probably be willing to pay up to $60 for each of these if you produced them on a production scale
That would be great Mark... thanks for your interest! You should be able to find what you're looking for here: next-level-carpentry-swag-shop If for some reason that link doesn't work then go to the bottom of the video description for this video and you'll see a link to Spring and the Next Level Carpentry T-shirt shop there. Have fun shopping and I hope you enjoy sporting a little NLC swag! Best, Matt
@@markrasmussen8565 Thank YOU! Hope you enjoy your new tees... I really should order a few more myself as the ones I wear while shooting video in the shop are looking a bit 'used'... Best, Matt
@@Jimunu Cool. I have the source where I bought the last 2 rollers but, because it's from a wholesaler/distributor, isn't priced very well and includes shipping because I'm not buying in bulk. I hope to find a more retail customer friendly source to share with viewers like you. You can always check Global Industrial for reference and buy from them, as I did, if time is more of an issue than cost. Best, Matt
Simple, but very useful. If needed, you could add some foldable wire-frame on the roller-side - doubling The Groat's ® length. Stock is already level (on the roller), it just gets some more support if really long(er)- ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-hdH18asehhk.html - not tipping over. Wishing you lots of sales!
@@michaelosmon I've got knives for 20 or so different molding profiles from projects I've done in 20 plus years since I bought the machine. If you watch closely at the end of the end of this video you get a glimpse into arched casings I made for the first project I did after buying this machine. One thing you might want to know is that while I am thoroughly satisfied with the machine and its performance the people at the Williams and Hussey company are actually rather bizarre... long story but if you by any chance end up buying a new machine from the company you might encounter situations that explain why I mentioned that. I can also tell you that the investment I made in that molder all those years ago has paid off in Spades for both profitable work and a reputation for being able to do projects others cannot.😎
@@NextLevelCarpentry cool man, I never tried buying a new one, this one got rebuilt with all new bearings and rollers when I got it. I don't think I've ever contacted them. But it's an amazing machine and like you said it gets things done that most people can't or wouldn't know how. The most difficult thing ever was a handrail for a curved staircase. Now that was a challenge. I think a woodworking channel is a great thing because there are many aspects to carpentry that most carpenters don't know about. A woodworking channel could have virtually endless topics and it will always be interesting to me. I'm grateful for channels like yours that help me to expand my skills and interests. Even just watching someone go through a design process out loud can and usually will help me become better at it myself. Even better when it's entertaining. I appreciate you sir, thank you for sharing your skills knowledge and experience
Patreon support is selected individually by patrons, John, and reflects the value they place on content there. For others it's simply motivation or desire to support Next Level Carpentry video production because RU-vid doesn't necessarily promote long-form, deep dive video content so anything and everything is appreciated by yours truly! 😎