Bullying, the fall of NastyClare, & Ms.Scribe | CASSANDRA CLARE PT 3 | AUTHORS BEHAVING BADLY 

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Not the first time actual bullies jumped on the anti-bullying bandwagon. The mean girls to nurses pipeline is a thing, after all.

The early HP fandom drama just gets worse the more I hear. So far we're at... - MsScribe and her sock puppets - Cassie's plagerism - A fan fic in which Dumbledore was breeding Hogwarts students like livestock - the donation drama in which a woman with cancer was hounded by Cassie's fans - A ridiculous amount of incest - Trying to get someone kicked out of school over fandom drama - One of Cassie's old friends egging on teens who genuinely thought Sherlock was not queerbaiting and saying her soul is black (as in the race) on tumblr - Snapewives I'm almost scared of what else I can hear about.

the fact that these groups were in their mid-twenties when they got into such absurd middle school-level drama is astonishing. I'm the same age and I can't imagine getting myself into similar situations

“Sword Catcher” sounds like the title of a homoerotic fantasy book starring a prince and his royal guard and I’m a little disappointed it’s not lol

I love seeing old fandom problems being dissected. It's like the new history Channel.

Bro imagine being a grown woman and hidding your friendship with someone. The whole Casandra HP friend group drama has such middle school vibe like my god

I feel like it’s important to note that the blog post (2012) using “Anti-Semitism” and not “antisemitism” predates the official style guide change (2021) but also much of the major push by Jewish organizations, groups, and individuals to make the change official (I first find articles mentioning the desire to change it around 2015) and so while now it’s 100% the incorrect usage, at the time they were used interchangeably with the style guide rules being hyphenated.

It’s so hard to hear aja say “Cassie was a good friend!” When she was an awful friend the entire time. She literally lied about it like some sort of affair. Poor woman seems hella manipulated

"instead of dealing with Stacy she asked if we could remain friends in secret. She thanked me under codename 'Darcy' so that Stacy wouldn't find out. But she found out later when she hacked Cassie's email and threw a fit." What. In the MIDDLE SCHOOL. Did I listen to. These are grown women. 🤦🏾‍♂️🤦🏾‍♂️🤦🏾‍♂️🤦🏾‍♂️🤦🏾‍♂️

it’s SO interesting hearing about the Cassie Claire stuff on livejournal from a perspective centering her, since i’ve watched Minerva (doubleca5t)’s video about Ms. Scribe (quite) a few times. Sometimes i cringe at my teen years on the internet, and then i remember that at least i can say i was twelve and roleplaying Camp Half Blood and i don’t have to justify being a 30-something making sockpuppets and bullying people

So many Jewish readers criticized CC for turning her only Jewish character into a vampire, since for centuries Jewish people have been accused of using blood of innocent victims (especially children) to cast spell, draw power and nourishment etc. It's called blood libel and it has had real life catastrophic consequences for Jewish communities all throughout history as it was used as a justification for persecuting them. The worst part is that this character does end up killing a young teenage girl (13yo or so) to drink her blood. I guess Jewish readers are antisemitic? For calling out her own internalized antisemitism? This character is also treated like a doormat by every other main character (aka the good guys...). The angelic heroes treating the Jewish vampire like shit. Oh, he's also a two-timing cheater. Because the author also treats him like shit and portrays him as childish and desperate. In a scene where this character is preparing to reveal his condition to his mother, another character brings him a pamphlet about coming out of the closet to your family for inspiration... Because an undead creature that kills people is totally comparable to being a LGBT+ person 🙄🙄🙄 She also uses "misogyny!" as an excuse to ignore criticism as well. And she portrays herself as the "queen of rep" but anytime people of color or queer people criticize her or simply ask her a question she doesn't like, she blocks them 🙃

The late-diagnosed ADHD desire to have the energy to create a sock puppet-fuelled drama cyclone. Morally dubious, sure, but also, I bet you could get the laundry done if you have that much energy

I just finished Strange Aeons's video about Ms Scribe when I saw this. This is such a weird little microcosm of internet Fandom, authors, and cattyness its fascinating and reminds me why I don't generally take part of Fandom circles much these days

The inner circle drama… were they adults when this happened!? 😩 they seem like literal bickering high school freshman

Sometimes I regret not being active in fan spaces back in the day, but then I remember this stuff was happening and thank the stars I wasn't

as a jew who hates cassandra clare. it's really bold to blame it all on antisemitism

Just listening to this is EXHAUSTING. I can’t imagine compiling all of it, let alone living this. Don’t people get tired of living like this?

More than 1h on Cassandra Clare and the dumpster fire that was the 2000s Harry Potter fanfiction scene, as told by Rachel with a good dosis of snark? I needed this

I somehow avoided that Cassandra Clare hated the show even though I was in the fandom when it was airing. Of coruse she hates the show though, it fixes a lot of things I personally hated from the books. Clary is less of that "I hate other girls because they are prettier" and "I'm not like the other girls I do art" trope, she also has a besties relationship with Izzy. Also Alec isnt biphobic in the show, which made me hate him while reading the books. Like yeah, the show had its flaws but I enjoyed watching it more than I enjoyed the books, which I didnt even finish because the incest between Clary and Sebastian was like, okay is she just gonna keep introducing incest plotlines? And from what I've heard about her other books, yes.

I have 2 things to say 1. What a mess 2. If someone is in so many dramas and bullying stories, there has to be some truths about it.

Shit like this was why I kept my head down when posting fanfic and eventually jumped from HP fanfic to anime. I made a comment after someone requested that I write a Hermione/Draco fic that I don't like that pairing and my God! The more popular your work gets in ff circles the more drama you can end up in. Many writers think that if they get big enough their work should be classed as 'fandom canon'

Oh wow, this is so much... I got to the incesty part in City of Bones and threw the book across the room. I started reading City of Ashes and noped out a few chapters in. Cc's whole saga from HP fanfic until recently is a wild ride. I watched all 3 parts back to back and I'm exhausted! I can't imagine how draining it is for you to research it all, I tip my hat to you!

Losing my mind at the fact that all this mean girls behavior was happening in a “For Grownups” group

Okay I know Cassandra Clare is a terrible person, but it's weirdly so wholesome and responsible to check with a minor's legal guardian to be sure it's okay for that minor to do some big internet project? Because for one that means that, in this case, her mom was aware she was doing something online so the mom could monitor it if she wanted.

Hearing so much about this fandom mean girl behavior, and knowing Cassie and some others went into YA trad publishing, shines a light on why YA publishing has a reputation for being immature/mean. I don’t think that’s accurate obviously but I see how this became an assumption thing if ppl like Cassie were such big names back in the day

Why would someone report another person to their uni for deleting a fan group? I can understand being mad about it, but reporting to a uni in an attempt to get them into trouble or kicked out seems over the line.

As a Jew thank you for mention the antisemitism and not hyphening it! Also it’s still antisemitism if you make antisemitic jokes if you’re Jewish. It’s just internalized antisemitism and still hurts us/is very offensive. Also just because you’re a minority it doesn’t make it okay to bully or write INC/ST AND OTHER BIGOTRY/HORRIBLE SHIT!!!

I love when you admonish yourself like “Rachel!?? Jesus…. ” Because i can relate so hard 😂

I just got done watching StrangeAeons video about MsScribe so this is perfect timing

It just reminds me of Regina George writing her own name in the burn book then turning it in to the principal. And her behavior at the assembly with all the girls in the gym.

I was around for the fanfiction and cyberbullying era. I didn't even read fanfiction much, but it leaked out to all the fandom areas, which previously had been segregated into their own little sectors. Her reputation was insane and very widespread and no one wanted to get on the bad side of her or any of her minions (and that's what they were). The Ms Scribe thing was an absolute chaotic mess of confusion and denials and detractors or defenders. No one really understood wtf was bappebing. It wasn't until a few years ago I revisted the whole thing and started to read about it, then eventually saw the video here on RU-vid. It wasn't a surprise and I have always been more shocked that CC didn't seem to use sockpupppets herself given the absolutely unhinged comments people would leave jumping to her aide at the slightest criticism. The whole mess, along with other fandom insanity, kept me distant during the 2000's and soured me to the whole concept to this day. The fact that she is still active, still doing the same things, and yet is now a famous multimillion dollar author makes me sick to my stomach. This video was so weird, the way it brought back memories and really captured the feeling of fandom back in that day. These were all grown women BACK THEN, full ass adults, but it always felt like the worst kind of high school drama, which I would know since I was a preteen and teen during their years of dominance. Awesome video, terrible time in internet history.

I am so glad CC's shitty history is not being forgotten. She has always been a terrible writer and a terrible person, as well as an example of the sad fact that cheaters do indeed prosper. I never dealt with her personally, but I know people who did, and her and her ~Inner Circle~ were so disgusting that I pretty much bailed on the entire HP fandom (which was admittedly also an epic zoo in general).

I want to add something about my issues with Clare. I ran into her when I was a child. And the attacks I got from her and her ilk, I avoided the Harry Potter fandom for several years until I got back into it in the early 2010s

If I remember correctly, Heidi the lawyer wasn’t very responsive to the real concerns forwarded about MsScribe back in the day.

Pseudo incest does fall into incest and the harm incest causes on people.

Bonnie Wright and Jamie Campbell Bower were engaged, but they were never married. But I can’t believe I never made that connection before. And Jamie was in the Harry Potter franchise (as Young Grindelwald), which is likely how he and Bonnie met, as well as being in the City of Bones movie. I wonder if he knew about the connection between the two franchises? Interestingly, he also dated Lily Collins while working on City of Bones, so technically he dated two incarnations of Ginny? Also, Richard Harris’ (the first Dumbledore) son Jared was in the movie too? You can’t tell me none of these people knew…

purity culture is a term that comes up a lot in like "anti" vs "anti anti" fandom discourse with a variety of meanings that range from "policing depictions of any kind of complex topic" to "thinking under*ge/ inc*st fetish is bad." like basically any kind of fandom discourse it's ultimately so vague as to lose all meaning, deployed as a boogeyman thought terminating cliche to shut down any productive argument. it sucks that people have taken this useful word to talk about fundamentalism and its horrible psychological impact on people and watered it down to talk about shipping bullshit 😑

i have to keep reminding myself that cassandra clare was an ADULT when all this middle school shit went down

I need someone to do a video on the early Harry Potter fandom because it sounds wild.

The part where you looked up morass literally had me wheezing oh my god

CC is an only sibling, right? Can you imagine being her sibling if she had one 😬😬😬

As someone who’s used purity culture in online spaces to people who’d never interacted with fundie culture, purity culture does have a different meaning. They mean more along the lines of every piece of media has to have an element of moral goodness and purity. It was such a confusing conversation

You’re my hero. Cassandra is an author I absolutely hate. I tried reading City of Bones when I was in college, and I never finished it. I thought it was absolutely horrible. The writing, the characters, etc… And then after that I learned about her as a person…and I really wish people would stop supporting such a bully.

How does she get away with acting like this constantly? Thank you for covering all of this it's very interesting. (BTW i'm a nice Cassie i promise)

So I read the Bad Penny post when it came out and while unfortunately I don’t have screenshots of it, what I do remember is that it was mostly about Ms Scribe and didn’t have much to do with Cassandra besides the fact that Ms Scribe was trying to cozy up to her. Perhaps I’m simply not remembering that part anymore, but the post was mainly about Ms Scribe, I do remember that.

My step sister and step brother are 100% my siblings. Step sibling stuff is so creepy to me.

The extensive use of the word “wank” really dates all these posts 😂

The cultish way these people put Cassandra on a pedestal is like weirdly frightening to me. Sure it's not THAT deep but good lord is it bizarre. Red flag after red flag. "For the good of the group" and "for the good of her reputation" hivemind is scary 😭

1:26 Oh my god, the instant you said Darker Shade of Magic, it all clicked into place for me. I’ve had that “why does this sound so familiar” feeling ever since C. Clare dropped the summary for Sword Catcher

“2003’s Susan Meechan” 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂 stop I can’t breathe

Ok I am normally not caught up on writer controversy but the way I’ve been WAITING for this video. Thank you so much

I was waiting for p3! It's been so interesting hearing about Cassandra before her big break. I knew she had a cringey past as a fan fiction writer but it's way worse and grosser than I thought lol

Yes, i remember a lot of this. It's largely why i won't support any author thats a friend of hers openly. I wont support anyone who covers for bullies like that.

5:40 That headline made me cackle so loud my husband asked me if I was choking on something. (Water is wet. HA! ) Based on this long saga of 'she said this' and 'she said that' I wouldn't touch a book by this author with a ten foot pole. Nor will I watch any movie or tv show made from her stories. 1:02:31 Ms Scribe. I know 'celebrity' can attract unstable individuals, but this is a step beyond. You deserve a long break after this one, Rachel. This had to feel like walking through a septic tank. (There's not enough soap in the world sometimes to get rid of the funk.) I appreciate how hard you worked on this.

I love that the chief investigator in the Ms Scribe dossier is named after the biggest badass in Pratchett's City Watch

Holy hell, you dived in deep for this one Rachel!

* gasp * "these people are minors! ✨️oh no✨️" - Rachel The way she said this was funnier than it should have been to me 🤣

In fandom, Star Wars around 2005 forward was psychotic. I was dragged into it because a person who moderated according to the rules didn’t kick me off a site for having written interspecies sex. Except I did no such thing. I had people telling me about their fantasies of how to kill me. Note that this was while I had just left an abusive husband who tried to kill me. They wanted me to fall hard for not being found to do something wrong.

It's really fascinating to watch your videos on CC because, as someone who was vaguely aware that she was a horrible person back in 2010, but didn't understand whole context things (only the plagiarism bits) it's just like...wow. Like, I was literally in elementary school when all this drama initially began (early 2000's) so I only discovered her reputation through internet writer friends later. But isn't it wild that people can just walk into a bookstore, go "Oh, I'm going to buy one of her books!" unironically and just not know even a smidgen of the drama she's created? I just. I commend anyone whose actually attempted to read her books 😂 I will never do that to myself omg.

As someone who was of the age to be on Fiction Alley/Fiction Alley Park (the forum for fan discussions that went along with the fanfic archive), but who wasn’t involved enough (and wasn’t on fandom live journal) to see all the drama go down, so remembers all these people as fic writers and remembers when some of them left but had no idea *why* and just assumed at the time it had to be due to just… life happening and fanfic needing to stop… this is fascinating! Like… these particular big name fans were all Harry/Hermione shippers. In my college days when I was still into HP, that was my ship. These were fan writers I gobbled up. So seeing all the craziness that was going on while I was reading their stuff, blissfully ignorant of their drama and poor behavior is just… really fascinating, like watching a really dramatic tv show.

I wish you could safely talk about Addison Cain and the Omega verse shit storm just because I would love to listen to your witty comebacks about the situation 🤣😭

It’s so hard because the Cassandra Clare books were such a big part of my teen years and high school (I’m 19 now but been reading since I was 12) but hearing all this stuff makes me sad because the stuff I extrapolated out of her books was thankfully none of the weird incesty stuff and was actually about loving others and being kind and strong through adversity and sticking together. It was also a way my new friends in high school and I bonded over something because at the time the awful show was coming out and we just had something that brought us together - however it was stuff like shadowhunters crack that we loved and still quote to this day not the show itself because as I said it was awful. So to hear all this in your series… I guess it’s more of a “do some of the stuff I write not as I do” situation because she is… a downright awful person. To think that the happiness it brought for me (weird incesty stuff excluded) has also bred such awful experiences for others just makes me deeply sad. I will point out, after the magic and the anticipation for new books wore off and I went back and yeah I am less interested in her new shadowhunters stuff and mainly want to see how it ends with TWP And I love this series of yours but I have mostly blocked out the weird incesty fanfic stuff the same way I blocked out that weird bit where Jace and Clary thought they were siblings because I’m not ready to let go of how much they mean to me🥲

I'm back watching this a second time because there's so much information to take in. I appreciate the effort you put into actually researching the claims made against CC instead of just taking all past accusations at face value. A big pet peeve of mine is when people read a big long "call out post" about a problematic celebrity and just believe everything without question. Even if a public figure is guilty of many bad things, it's still important to make sure we aren't spreading false information when we criticize them. Being responsible with your platform and being diligent about fact checking is what separates your videos from the "trolls/haters/bullies" that so many problematic figures complain about.

As someone who has never been a part of really anything involving Cassie Claire, it's really fascinating. And how much her and authors like her forget that the internet is forever. Your internet past will come back to bite you.

I swear we turn around and Cantelope Clare is back at it again.

It's wild to me how such massive, ugly drama can stir up even in something as seemingly innocuous as a fan community for HP. It just goes to show that no matter the setting, people will always find reasons and ways to be absolute garbage to one another.

I was a Casaandra Clare snarker back in the day on tumblr, and go incredibly lucky I only got contacted by 2 fans. The last one was incredibly reasonable and we ended up discussing what author intent was. I feel like I dodged a bullet.

God I love it every time Ms. Scribe gets talked about. gotta admire the dedication and energy she had

Usually I tend to cringe when I think about all of the stuff that I used to do back when I was in middle school. I cannot ever imagine myself engaging in middle school drama as a full grown adult - especially in the Harry Potter fandom of all things.

frankly, i wouldn't be surprised if one day we find out that Ms.Scribe actually have been cassandra clare all those years

I'm a bit over halfway through the video, how is there so much drama in that community? It sounds so toxic! All the fanfic communities I've been in have been so wholesome, I don't understand how it can escalate to a point like that. Why are they hacking each other and stuff? Just enjoy the fics and be nice to each other

10+ years ago when I read her Shadowhunter books, I was a fan and didn't know anything about her. I got "spoiled" that the incest plot wasn't *really* incest so I felt okay reading the books. But after watching all three parts and knowing it's a thing she puts in all her books, I feel icked out. Glad I had already unhauled all the ones I owned. Her (cassie's) lawyer must be fantastic for her to not be sued for any of the nonsense she's pulled over the years.

I love how the Patrion part went being a little bit at the start with three to four names to requiring a while section at the end with over a dozen and an additional slide

I Love when you read the text of Cassandra saying: "They;re victims of a very specific cyber-bullying" and I automatically completed the sentence for her: "The bullying against my work and myself" because that's the only bullying she disapproves it seems. xD

I just love how while those of us who were preteens or teens at the time were just minding our own business, in roleplays of fandoms we were involved in, reading fanfic, on Neopets, whatever, these grown women were involved in all of this drama. I mean, I didn't even fully find out all the drama Cassie Clare until the tv show, Shadowhunters premiered and my curiosity was peaked when I heard that it was based off of a book series. Needless to say, finding out all the stuff she was accused of doing to people and the Ron/Ginny incest was pretty insane.

So when I was younger I ended up reading a children's book series by Cassandra Clare and Holly Black known as the Magisterium series. I thought it was such a cool series, to the point I bought the second book at the book fair when I saw it. I remember even back then I though the series was very similar to Harry Potter. Now knowing the history of Cassandra Clare (and I'm aware Holly Black also isn't a good person) it makes total sense why the book series was so similar to Harry Potter. But, it's also kinda sad that two of favorite fantasy series from my childhood were written by such horrible people... At least the Percy Jackson series, and other books part of that universe are currently safe!

What is it with the HP fandom attracting the most abusive people? Also, this sounds exhausting. Maybe it’s just my depression, but I can’t imagine caring this much over someone not liking my fanfiction.

An hour long Rachel video?? We’re eating good today 😎💕

The amount of computer hacking and accused computer hacking involved in this middle-school-esque drama blows my mind.

The idea that people criticize Clare because of antisemitism is absolutely an excuse so she doesn't have to actually pay attention to the very reasonable criticism she has received. That's absolutely intentional. It's not that it's drowned or less visible. She goes out of her way to look for the cringe and extreme ridiculousness so she can ignore the rest.

These people were all adults when this shit went down, right? That’s honestly sad 😂 I grew out of this type of behavior by the time I was in *high school*. These girlies really do be acting like middle school bullies

Yeah, there's so much here that gets swept under the rug not just from how long ago it happened, but how many people jump to defend her (alleged) bad behavior. Thank you for laying this all out as well as you do, because parts of it are overwhelming (and mind bendingly bonkers). I knew some of it, but definitely not all.

I was there. I watched this and more all go down on LiveJournal in real time. 😂 the HP community back then was just pure chaos.

the ms scribe drama is FASCINATING to me. like was it fucked up? sure. but imagine having that much time and energy on your hands. honestly legend.

I was around back then, and I hated Cassie so much lol. When she started turning up in bookstores my eyes nearly rolled out of my skull. Also, Maureen Johnson is pretty popular among the Nerdfighters/fans of John and Hank Green. She and John have been friends since the beginning of the vlogbrothers channel and she has appeared on it quite a few times, and she's a regular guest at the Project for Awesome, IIRC.

I absolutely loved this video! Having been a major lurker in the HP fandom during this time bring back so many memories! The Slash HP Fandom was so wild in the early 2000s. I always stayed far away from Cassandra Clare and the rest of the craziness that happened, I just watched.

I literally rewatched that Ms. Scribe video the other day 😂 and oh yeah I immediately thought of ASOM when I heard about Swordcatcher (side note! if "person pulled off the street into royalty" trope is one of your favorites, do you have any recs? Because I don't trust Cassie either 😂)

I have been waiting WITH ANGST for this video to come out. I am so invested in Cassandra Clare’s saga

As someone who wants to eventually go into adaptation work (I got my master's in tv/film writing so I do know my stuff somewhat), my biggest fear is for the author of the work I'm adapting to be publicly against the changes. What bothers me is she feels like her writing is gospel despite the fact that she signed her books over to the creators of the show that would defiantly have to change some stuff around, Otherwise it would be kinda boring seeing the same storylines play out on screen. Miss girl was salty that she didn't think of the storylines. ....So yeah... she truly sucks.

Oh hey. I legit just found you today and watched parts 1 and 2, and came looking for part 3. And here it is 🤣🤣

God why is the HP fandom so full of Mean Girls?!?!? This is wild!

you know it's gonna be good when you have to say "the incest... again"

"The guy who played Jace in the movie literally married Bonnie Wright." That's probably WHY they are bullying her.

I will say that "purity culture" in fandom has gained the title originally because in the early stages it reminded a lot of us ex-fundie fans of the purity culture in fundie circles that we'd grown up with. A lot of "If you read/watch/think about this thing we disagree with/dislike/find gross/problematic you are bad/sick/wrong." Purity Culture became the short-hand phrasing for it but the roots of that term came from those of us who had grown up hearing it in fundie circles.

Ahh but you see: the crime worth ☠️ was not stealing the laptops, but rather, inconveniencing Ms Clare/Judith.

YOOOOOOOOOOo minerva kelly's msscribe video is one of my favorite video essays and i love her take on this!!! ty for featuring her

Oh my LORD. The amount of drama... I can't even imagine. This video was so good and very well researched! Super entertaining. Thanks for all the hard work.

I’m sorry but as someone who uses Tumblr I screech-laughed when the link for Twitter users went to an error message. 😂 Easily the most borked website.

It's hilarious that she disliked the show when, in my opinion, it's so much better than the books. I couldn't bring myself to finish the 2nd book of Mortal Instruments because the characters irritated me but I loved the show. In it, first of all they aren't underage which is better, but also Alex and Magnus have a very loving relationship. Alex doesn't slutshame Magnus for having many lovers ("I don't carre how many people you've been with) or doesn't mind that Magnus is bi. Clary and Izzy get along immediately and become best friend, without any jealousy or slutshame either. Jace is more fun and way more respectful or women, like Clary is first surprised by the type of clothes Isabela wears Jace goes almost defensive and says "She is very confortable with her body". It's a lot of tweaks and changes in the characters personalities that makes them and how they interact with each other way more likeable.