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Bunching: A Transit User’s Worst Nightmare? 

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Bus bunching and transit bunching in general sucks - but what causes it and how can we fix it? Find out in my latest video!
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1 окт 2024

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Комментарии : 601   
@RMTransit
@RMTransit 8 месяцев назад
Regular reminder that all new videos in 2024 have English-language captions!
@AMPProf
@AMPProf 8 месяцев назад
Woo
@frafraplanner9277
@frafraplanner9277 8 месяцев назад
Let's gooo!!
@robertcartwright4374
@robertcartwright4374 8 месяцев назад
Did they used to have other-language captions? Har har!
@fredashay
@fredashay 8 месяцев назад
You changed your logo 🙂
@oscarlupton
@oscarlupton 8 месяцев назад
Awesome work, thank you for this
@agentzapdos4960
@agentzapdos4960 8 месяцев назад
Waiting 20 minutes for an "every 10 minutes" bus and then three buses showing up is an experience everyone who has ever used transit has had.
@AMPProf
@AMPProf 8 месяцев назад
Thats why no matter what anything under 20min is Magically. Mystriously way to earlly.. Cause you given up on it lolz
@BigBlueMan118
@BigBlueMan118 8 месяцев назад
One of the many disadvantages of bus transit and a dead giveaway for whenever anyone argues in bad faith that a rail project which being suggested by a competent transport planning authority could be done "just as well but more cheaply by bus"
@AMPProf
@AMPProf 8 месяцев назад
@@BigBlueMan118 so they make Bunches of Bus act like Train???? Lordy
@AMPProf
@AMPProf 8 месяцев назад
@@haisheauspforte1632 location... America ist nicht good ja
@AMPProf
@AMPProf 8 месяцев назад
Oooooo
@marco23p
@marco23p 8 месяцев назад
In the Netherlands, the amount of signal priority is actually based on their delay. The first of a bus bunched, being delayed, will have more priority while the second bus will not get any priority. Also a good way to de-bunch busses, I think.
@JaapGinder
@JaapGinder 8 месяцев назад
Besides that, busses in the NL have a system telling the driver is being behind, on time or delayed. Look at the little screen they have in front of them. GReen is on time, red is delayed and as far I know, it also can be yellow/orange. But it can also be red when they are to early! I've been in busses, just waiting a minute or two at a stop, before continueing the ride.
@longiusaescius2537
@longiusaescius2537 8 месяцев назад
@JaapGinder nice
@longiusaescius2537
@longiusaescius2537 8 месяцев назад
I know Alstom has an ATP system for trams. Does the Netherlands have anything like that for their busses or trams?
@matuskriska8361
@matuskriska8361 8 месяцев назад
​@@JaapGinder this is common in every country (at least in Europe). Even in rural Slovakia, on buses that go to villages with population of 100, in the middle of the mountains.
@ChristiaanHW
@ChristiaanHW 8 месяцев назад
bus drivers also tend to wait at a stop if they notice they are earlier than they should be. might seem strange for a bus to just wait 5 minutes at a stop before continuing their route, but if they would arrive before their scheduled time people could miss the bus because the bus should have been at their stop yet. and if a bus is really behind schedule they sometimes skip stops that are serviced by several (bus) lines, so the bus has the opportunity to get back on schedule and those people could still take one of the other busses. this "bus stop skipping" is only really done at places where several lines converge, like at train stations. and if a bus is late they can request other busses to wait for a couple of minutes so people on the late bus can still make their transfer to those other lines.
@robertlunderwood
@robertlunderwood 8 месяцев назад
It's one thing if a route running every 5-10 minutes run back to back. It's another thing when this happens to a route running once every 30 minutes.
@justinsimmonds5674
@justinsimmonds5674 8 месяцев назад
Absolutely right. In my area, there are two bus routes that just follow the main road between two major shopping centres then to different suburbs past there. They schedule each of these for every 30 minutes but they come together rather than spread out in between. Essentially two buses every 30 minutes rather than one every 15.
@Rollermonkey1
@Rollermonkey1 8 месяцев назад
@@justinsimmonds5674 I used to see this all the time in San Diego from wheelchair users, or other riders with limited mobility issues. breaking the gap back apart is the most difficult part, until low-floor or level boarding can be established.
@davegreenlaw5654
@davegreenlaw5654 8 месяцев назад
There have been times where I've wondered if the drivers are doing that because they feel there is safety in numbers so they don't end up getting jumped by gang members in the more dangerous parts of town.
@kirikanoir2403
@kirikanoir2403 8 месяцев назад
@@justinsimmonds5674 Sounds like my city`s bus service. Runs every 35 minutes day time and an hour and 10 minutes evenings. Whats worse is some routes only run one bus making it extremely inconvenient especially in the evening when if you just miss the earlier bus you have over an hour wait for the nect one. I have actually ended up walking for 45 minutes several times since it`s faster than waiting for the next bus.
@justinsimmonds5674
@justinsimmonds5674 8 месяцев назад
@@kirikanoir2403 Wow… just wow… The bus route that passes out the back of my house runs hourly. Oftentimes faster to catch one of the other routes and contend with a steep hill. I calculated the slope on this hill as roughly 1 metre elevation change for every 10 metres of walking. This accounts for about 250 metres out of an 800 metre walk.
@ijmad
@ijmad 8 месяцев назад
In London, when they started tracking all the busses by GPS, busses bunched up behind started waiting for a few minutes to even out the service. They'd play an automated PA, that went something like "this bus will wait here for a few minutes to even out the service". Unfortunately this led to a fairly extreme reactions by frustrated passengers, such as shouting at drivers, even some abuse. No excuse for that of course, but they had to stop doing it! I think the practice now is for the bus affected will be told to deliberately drive slowly. The announcement is still used very occasionally but they're quite rare now.
@monishbiswas1966
@monishbiswas1966 8 месяцев назад
I’ve heard that announcement recently, although not as much as before.
@TheScrollLock1
@TheScrollLock1 8 месяцев назад
Montreal has had GPS tracking for about 5 years, but the recorded announcements that you mentioned for London only started a few months ago here.
@thatbritishmallard
@thatbritishmallard 8 месяцев назад
​@@TheScrollLock1I've lived in London all my life, and it's happened for years if I remember correctly
@iiBus
@iiBus 8 месяцев назад
If you're slowing down / keeping a bus to wait, does this mean the driver will have to turn early later on, lose the layover completely at the terminus or run not in service to catch up where they should be? There are legal driving hour restrictions that must be met.
@lambdalambdalambda818
@lambdalambdalambda818 8 месяцев назад
Sometimes the deliberate slow driving is anoying, because you miss your connection because of it
@Mwoo92
@Mwoo92 8 месяцев назад
I used to take a specific bus route in Toronto every day, and EVERY DAY leaving work, rather than the maximum wait time of 15 minutes it should have been, I would wait between 30 min and 1 hr before three or four buses would show up. It was the most consistent and frustrating thing in my life at the time. I sent complaints every month or so, but it never changed. It was only so frustrating because I KNEW there must be a solution to make it at least a little better, but I’m sure the operators simply did not care to solve the problem. I started fantasizing about stealing a radio and directing the drivers myself based on the real-time arrivals GPS system they use/Nextbus app.
@RMTransit
@RMTransit 8 месяцев назад
That sucks, my recommendation for a situation like this is calling your city councillor and emailing them as well as the TTC. And doing so regularly!
@areshera4039
@areshera4039 8 месяцев назад
Toronto and Montreal public transports are national embarrassments.
@brighton_dude
@brighton_dude 8 месяцев назад
If I’m in a hurry I get infuriated when the bus sits at an empty stop for no apparent reason. However I think the reason is probably that they are countering bunching. Great video thank you!
@kathrynstemler6331
@kathrynstemler6331 8 месяцев назад
Or just keeping to the schedule
@johanlugthart7782
@johanlugthart7782 8 месяцев назад
It is indeed annoying if you want to catch a train, but most often the bus is just too early indeed.
@justinsimmonds5674
@justinsimmonds5674 8 месяцев назад
The only time the buses in my area do that is if they realise they’re ahead of schedule.
@sunshiney_Sonnenschein
@sunshiney_Sonnenschein 8 месяцев назад
In a reasonable transit system, a bus would only sit at a stop if it were early. Where I live buses usually only stop if they are more than two minutes early or the bus driver has to do something very important on the phone. Oh, we also have that bus driver who randomly stops sometimes to take pictures of the sunset.
@sexygeek8996
@sexygeek8996 8 месяцев назад
I hate it when the bus waits for someone who isn't at the stop yet and that person doesn't even make an effort to get there quickly. Even worse is when that idiot holds up the bus by asking the driver for directions. Usually it is some homeless bum who wants to find Walmart but doesn't know where it is.
@TSgotstolengoddamm
@TSgotstolengoddamm 8 месяцев назад
Another potential good idea is to let the rear emptier bus overtake the delayed bus and also have both buses exchange their schedules so the emptier bus can play catchup eaiser while the fuller bus can have some capacity to play with
@ignaciotorovillacura6342
@ignaciotorovillacura6342 8 месяцев назад
This actually happened in my city when two buses were too close the one in the front skip a stop leaving passengers to the bus in the back, and then in the next stop the bus in the front stops so the other can skip that stop.
@barneylaurance1865
@barneylaurance1865 8 месяцев назад
I think that is allowed in principle in may cities, but there aren't a lot of opportunities for one bus to overtake another on many busy streets.
@EricaGamet
@EricaGamet 8 месяцев назад
Many of our buses are trolley buses and that's just not possible. I once was on a bus with a brand-new driver and he didn't switch for a turn and the amount of detour we had to take to get back on the right set of cables!
@TSgotstolengoddamm
@TSgotstolengoddamm 8 месяцев назад
@@EricaGamet solution: ahead tbus and benhind tbus both stop at bus stop. Ahead tbus skips 2-5 stops while behind tbus makes all stops. Ahead tbus gains capacity to catch up and behind tbus gets fuller and the bunching is cleared. (Ofc this would req radio comms to arrange)
@sunshiney_Sonnenschein
@sunshiney_Sonnenschein 8 месяцев назад
On the minus side, on can argue, if you sit on the already delayed bus, from your perspective it would become even more delayed. On paper it would be on time, but you have taken this bus and not the next one for a reason. I would want my bus to at least *try* to arrive at the time it is supposed to be and not change it's shedule in the middle of the ride.
@AverytheCubanAmerican
@AverytheCubanAmerican 8 месяцев назад
Bunching is a common occurrence on the corridors of the jitneys in Hudson County, NJ because there is no preset timetable. NJ Transit is put at a disadvantage because not only do these jitneys show up way more often than NJ Transit buses do, but the jitney drivers all speak Spanish. They appeal to Latinos. A high percentage of Hudson County is Latino, and by being Latino-owned and operated, they take advantage of this. Frequency is their key to success, so even though they charge more than NJT, people still take them because they show up first. They also have the advantage of stopping at every single corner. They operate between George Washington Bridge, Journal Square, and Newport Centre mall, and some go to the PABT as well. Similar situation in Flatbush, Brooklyn. But a difference is there, the jitneys are operated by and served for West Indians. When the MTA discontinues bus routes in Brooklyn and Queens, these vans take over. During periods when even limited public mass transit is unavailable, such as the January 2005 Green Bus Lines and Command Bus Company strike or the December 2005 New York City transit strike, these vans were crucial.
@unknownhours
@unknownhours 8 месяцев назад
I would love to live somewhere where the busses are frequent enough for bunching to be a problem.
@fromhigherground4272
@fromhigherground4272 8 месяцев назад
Come to Estonia, we have free public transport for residents and zero bunching.
@christafranken9170
@christafranken9170 8 месяцев назад
I used to study in Utrecht, where I took the infamous bus 12. The thing was a bi-articulated bus on a 2,5 minute schedule from the central station to campus and a major hospital nearby. That basically was a bunched line of busses throughout rushour. Just one bus after the other with the occasional bus from another line in between. They put a tramline in since then.
@radoskan
@radoskan 8 месяцев назад
@@fromhigherground4272 Yeah and that's all you have 😂
@liamness
@liamness 8 месяцев назад
@@radoskan Pretty ignorant, the Baltic countries are really on a par with western European countries in terms of living standards at this point, but with housing / food etc costs still being a fair bit more reasonable. The ex-USSR stereotypes really don't apply.
@AMPProf
@AMPProf 8 месяцев назад
We all know mr bob..
@o_s-24
@o_s-24 8 месяцев назад
The problem becomes even more complex when it happens with buses from different routes. Like, not a bus for 5 mins straight, then 5 buses from different routes show up at once at the stop simply doesn't fit them. It is even more frustrating, when the buses have gps tracking, and the authorities aren't doing anything about it...
@cardenasr.2898
@cardenasr.2898 8 месяцев назад
I've seen plenty of memes that say "when you've waited 30 minutes for your bus but there's so many buses in the way that he skips your stop". Really common in Latin America.
@sonicboy678
@sonicboy678 8 месяцев назад
It's worth noting that a situation like that could involve buses dispatched from multiple depots. One thing that can be done is having separate bus stops for specific routes.
@christopherwaller2798
@christopherwaller2798 8 месяцев назад
@@sonicboy678 usually in London, different bus routes in the same direction will share a bus stop. But where they are shortly about to branch off in different directions, there will usually be separate stops, depending on the road layout, frequency of service, etc.
@seedz5132
@seedz5132 8 месяцев назад
@@christopherwaller2798 In Paris, a stop cannot be shared by more than 3 lines at a time. on the busiest routes, a stop can only serve 2 lines. It leads to the multiplication of stops and a pain to search which stop is your line though :D
@magnushultgrenhtc
@magnushultgrenhtc 8 месяцев назад
"I think we're going to need a bigger bus stop"...
@SupremeLeaderKimJong-un
@SupremeLeaderKimJong-un 8 месяцев назад
Exactly, transit priority signals are extremely important, just having transit priority signals can go a long way! Transit is a service to the people, and of course they're longer than cars and carry way more people than a car so it must have priority to get everyone inside where they need to go in a timely manner instead of contributing to congestion on the roads. When there's transit priority signals, bus lanes, or even a dedicated bus highway like in Pittsburgh, these are the things that make a city's transit network so much better. In Pittsburgh's case, the South Busway opened in 1977 along the Route 51 corridor to allow buses to skip the crowded and light-filled Route 51! And it provides connections to the city's light-rail. Another example of a bus highway is the Adelaide O-Bahn guided busway. Built to serve Adelaide's suburbs, its unique feature of a non-transfer service direct from suburban streets to the city center made it attractive. Adelaide's track is 12 km/7.5 mi long and includes three interchanges at Klemzig, Paradise and Tea Tree Plaza. Interchanges allow buses to enter and exit the busway and to continue on suburban routes, avoiding the need for passengers to transfer to another bus to continue their journey. Not to mention, the O-Bahn has sump buster devices to prevent cars.
@sunshiney_Sonnenschein
@sunshiney_Sonnenschein 8 месяцев назад
A man barely misses his bus. "You run three minutes early!", he complains to the driver. "No", the driver replies, "I'm actually seventeen minutes late.".
@stevebolandca
@stevebolandca 8 месяцев назад
Love that you're taking this on, Reece. This is so much of what working transit planners in North America have to deal with on a daily basis, and try to explain to the public when we are, for example, proposing to remove stops. Also really looking forward to your headway management vid.
@RMTransit
@RMTransit 8 месяцев назад
Thanks, that's great to hear! It's not easy but it's important work!
@ghamerons6287
@ghamerons6287 8 месяцев назад
As a note with London busses if bunching occurs usually the bus is told to wait at the stop to even out the service, this is usually is accompanied by announcement saying what is happening.
@hilupianoservice
@hilupianoservice 8 месяцев назад
As a bus driver with several years of experience driving high frequency routes through busy neighborhoods, what my colleagues and I would do is play leapfrog. I regularly pushed the bleeding edge of my schedule, leaving runners for the next bus. As a result, I regularly caught up with my leader, and I would pass them whenever nobody onboard pulled the stop request and speed onto the next stop, picking up all my leader's passengers and allowing them to become a de-facto drop-off only bus. That would allow them to make up time and pass me again. Leapfrogging minimized my leader's subsequent delay, and relieved them of some of their work. Back at the garage, there was a group of drivers not well liked because they wouldn't play leapfrog and just let their leaders do all the work.
@crowmob-yo6ry
@crowmob-yo6ry 8 месяцев назад
Bus bunching is the perfect argument for dedicated lanes.
@danielpateto
@danielpateto 8 месяцев назад
Bunching still happens in bus lanes, traffic lights make it so much worse than tram bunching
@TheScrollLock1
@TheScrollLock1 8 месяцев назад
Dedicated lanes, bus priority traffic lights, and articulated buses. Where possible of course. EDIT: And card readers for bus routes at Metro/subway stations. BTW, sorry if I'm repeating things Reese said in the video. I can't remember every detail. (He did mention the articulated bus thing)
@Fan652w
@Fan652w 8 месяцев назад
But bus lane will only work if there is also priority at traffic lights. And (above all) the 'random delays' which occur when drivers have to sell tickets must be ended by taking all sales of tickets 'off bus'.
@danielpateto
@danielpateto 8 месяцев назад
@@TheScrollLock1 the city of Bogota has most of these and is seen as the gold standard for BRT, look up "Transmilenio Traffic Jam" Buses are helpful but theyre not the answer and trying to accomodate everything to make them the answer, its objectively wrong
@MarioFanGamer659
@MarioFanGamer659 8 месяцев назад
Yeah, I was surprised to see that Reece didn't talk about it, especially because it makes the schedule more consistent on busy streets.
@altpersonas
@altpersonas 8 месяцев назад
I have NEVER seen buses in Charlotte be bunched up like that... granted I also never see them on time in the first place, but that's a different story 😅 Oh, I see the problem. Almost no one uses Charlotte's buses so they can't fall behind with passengers... :(
@SpithVideo
@SpithVideo 8 месяцев назад
Hey Reece! Longtime viewer (since you had around 20k subs I think?) and I’ve just gotta say, the production quality of your videos lately has been fantastic! The graphics in particular have really been stepped up since I first started watching (did you even have graphics back then?) and especially in the past few months - keep it up! You’re easily one of my favorite transit-oriented channels
@RMTransit
@RMTransit 8 месяцев назад
Thank you! I did not have a lot of graphics early on, have really been trying to do more and better especially this year with less videos!
@InternetKilledTV21
@InternetKilledTV21 8 месяцев назад
MBTA loooves having duplicate (or semi-duplicate) routes especially outside of downtown. Usually theyll have 30-45 minute headways and it's always hilarious having BOTH buses one after the next
@ashleyyyy8833
@ashleyyyy8833 8 месяцев назад
Most of these suggestions seem super do-able and practical, but fewer stops creates accessibility issues. If you're walking to the bus stop with a mobility aid or small children an additional 2 blocks can actually be pretty far. I rarely see elderly and disabled people, or parents with small children on busses outside of the downtown core, and I wonder if the distance between stops plays a role in this (of course there are several other reasons too, but it would be interesting to know if this is a factor).
@faolitaruna
@faolitaruna 8 месяцев назад
“The green wave”, which moves at the speed of public transit, is nice for bicycle riders as well, because they can also utilize it.
@RMTransit
@RMTransit 8 месяцев назад
Potentially, though ideally PT is moving faster. This is why having separate bike routes from major roads is often seen as advantageous!
@robk23oxf
@robk23oxf 8 месяцев назад
Hello, bus driver here. 👋 The type of vehicle is also important. Double decker buses have longer dwell times at bus stops because it takes longer for people to go up and down the stairs. An articulated bus would carry as many passengers but they would be able to board and alight faster. The other thing is how many doors there. Most buses in the UK are single door so this also slows things down as everyone has to enter and exit the vehicle through a single point. Ideally there should be two or more doors per vehicle but whilst the UK bus system is geared more towards a revenue seeking model rather than a public service model, we're likely to stay with single door buses.
@MER1978
@MER1978 8 месяцев назад
Toronto is very focused on complaining about the regular driving experience while fully depending on long from built new transit without bothering to do much to improve what we have. It's ridiculous that we don't have transit priority signals configured for every major surface transit route.
@Fan652w
@Fan652w 8 месяцев назад
An excellent video. But the points made in a graphic at 4mins 15secs need to be stressed. In places (eg most of Britain) where drivers are still expected to sell tickets, there can be 'random delays' while the passenger struggles to find the fare (or even the right app!), and/or the driver struggles to find the correct ticket on their machine.
@agentzapdos4960
@agentzapdos4960 8 месяцев назад
Any bus that accepts cash fares is subject to this kind of delay. There's always Grandma counting out nickels until she either puts in the correct fare or the driver waves her through due to concern with the growing lineup behind Grandma.
@ricktownend9144
@ricktownend9144 8 месяцев назад
Absolutely. Perhaps a way forward on this, which would also make the most of the drivers an operator has (a scarce resourse at present in the UK), would be to let the driver just drive - after all, tram-drivers don't deal with ticketing! It would also make the bus faster - which would start a whole virtuous circle of more passengers, less cars, less congestion and, as you point out, would get rid of one contributory cause of bunching.
@andrewgurudata2390
@andrewgurudata2390 8 месяцев назад
I consider there to be a far worst nightmare for transit users: The Short Turn. Especially at night in bad winter weather, being dumped short of your destination in an unfamiliar neighbourhood with no idea when the next vehicle is coming especially when you had timed your trip as precisely as you could in advance to get to where you need to on time and now are at risk of being late? Horrific. I had this happen on the 511 streetcar in Toronto the other night and was reminded of how unreliable this makes transit seem. I would love for you to do a video on short turns similar to this one. Does it even happen with other transit agencies?
@kailahmann1823
@kailahmann1823 8 месяцев назад
we have this here with regional trains. They go into the city on one line and out on the other - but skipping the always chaotic Hamburg Hauptbahnhof saves about half an hour.
@queens.dee.223
@queens.dee.223 8 месяцев назад
It's always fun when the short turn and full route buses are bunched and the short turn bus pulls over for you four stops before it ends and the full route bus drives away.
@christopherwaller2798
@christopherwaller2798 8 месяцев назад
Happens a fair amount in London but they usually try to do it at somewhere you can interchange with other routes in the same direction. That said, I've been terminated short at random places like West Green (near Seven Sisters which is a more useful place, but still in the middle of residential side streets!)
@jasonriddell
@jasonriddell 8 месяцев назад
IMHO a short turn bus doing it for anti bunching purposes like suggested is BAD enough to cause people to NOT USE transit next time and I would say is so bad bunching is a BETTER solution then tossing people off a bus so the bus can change routes leaving them standing outside in an area they are not familiar with OR comfortable in
@eechauch5522
@eechauch5522 8 месяцев назад
Yeah, short turning should only be an absolute last resort solution. DB has been doing short turns on very delayed long distance trains for a couple of years (nicknamed Pofalla-Wende after the guy who came up with the idea) and while from an operation standpoint it kind of makes sense, as a passenger it’s about the worst thing I can imagine. Because it turns from „oh well we might have 2h delay, but at least it’s only two more stops“ to „where the hell am I and how do I get home“. Delays are already stressful and irritating, adding a sudden change in service and forcing people to change vehicles creates frustration on a level where it might make them choose another transit mode next time.
@MichaelSheaAudio
@MichaelSheaAudio 8 месяцев назад
This would be a great problem to have in my town where buses only come every 30 minutes. If they're early and you miss it, that's a 30 minute wait, which means you'll likely be very late for whatever you needed to get to. Waiting for 10 minutes and having 2 buses show up would still be a better experience than what we have. XD
@yossarian6743
@yossarian6743 8 месяцев назад
As rightly pointed out, a ton of things can cause bunching. In Chicago, I find a ton of time is spent boarding passengers on buses, as boarding/fare paying can only happen from the front. I understand the North American fear that boarding from all doors might lead to some people not fare dodging, but if it leads to the system operating more efficiently and reliably (which would increase ridership), that seems like a trade-off worth making.
@Sp4mMe
@Sp4mMe 8 месяцев назад
The worst nightmare is missing a connection ... when said connecting was the last possible option for the day.
@ntw9218
@ntw9218 8 месяцев назад
4:40 Finally some footage from Tallinn, Estonia. Any chance of a dedicated video about Tallinn? If no, a video about the Rail Baltic project would be interesting.
@PauxloE
@PauxloE 8 месяцев назад
I think the one situation where you might want multiple buses at a time is when there is a replacement service for a (less frequent) train (due to construction works), and they all leave after the train arrives and people switch over. (Though even then it might be useful to add another bus in-between the bunches.) Also, it's really noticable you were in Berlin recently - a lot of Berlin footage mixed in.
@al_caponeh6185
@al_caponeh6185 8 месяцев назад
Ticketing here wasn't an issue for me since the only thing a passenger had to do was to tap it's smart card into the reader and it was ready to go in the blue corridor(Lima). The real cause of bunching when i tried to return home was bad infrastructure. You see, in the line covered by the blue corridor there are 2 bypasses and none of them were intended to put public transit as a priority. moreover, it is a place where you can often find vehicles in a gridlock. The result that you will have is 5 up to six buses from different routes bunched up.
@joriss5
@joriss5 8 месяцев назад
You mentioned frequency, which exacerbates the risk of bunching. There's another parameter which is line length : the longer the line, the more delay (or advance) a vehicle is likely to get. So designing the network by avoiding needlessly long lines is also a measure to improve reliability, like transit priority (but cheaper).
@marcdefaoite
@marcdefaoite 8 месяцев назад
My regular route often involves mandatory stops to adhere to the timetable, often for several minutes when traffic is light. Even though I know that it means I will still reach my destination at the scheduled time I suppose it's just human to feel slightly frustrated by not moving.
@illiiilli24601
@illiiilli24601 8 месяцев назад
Reminds me of timetable padding, another thing Reece has made a video on
@Yorick257
@Yorick257 8 месяцев назад
From my experience, this is a solvable problem. Where I live, it seems the public transport department empirically collected the data and set the schedule accordingly. For example, the same bus reaches the destination faster or slower according to the timetable depending on the time of the day. But why is it slower? Because there's rush hour and the bus is stuck in traffic! There are still certain times when a bus might stop for a minute but those are quite rare and happen around the start/end of the rush hour, when the traffic situation is not as constant.
@christopherwaller2798
@christopherwaller2798 8 месяцев назад
The timetable padding in London is more noticeable off peak and at night. During Covid lockdowns it was very noticeable as there was far less traffic and fewer bus passengers.
@sexygeek8996
@sexygeek8996 8 месяцев назад
I hate it when they have this kind of delay shortly before the end of the route.
@jasonriddell
@jasonriddell 8 месяцев назад
seen it at the ENDS of routes often at interchange stops say at a MALL or "bus row" also gives time for the operator to "take care of nature" and grab a snack stretch legs ETC
@charliebramley
@charliebramley 8 месяцев назад
worst nightmare? your service is cancelled!!
@urbanshepherdgroup2418
@urbanshepherdgroup2418 8 месяцев назад
😅Once i saw a bus being overtaken by the same busline, supposed to go every 20 min. They kept overtaking eachother for the rest of the line. This is extremely rare and was probably caused by a road incident earlier. The first bunching was kind of helped a little bit by the fact that the empty bus kept overtaking the delayed bus at bus stops.
@andrepoiy1199
@andrepoiy1199 8 месяцев назад
I was once on a VIVA bus (20min headway) that got so late that the following bus caught up. The reason? It had to pick up and drop off 2 different wheelchair users and a cyclist. How are you supposed to manage that kind of scenario?
@Fan652w
@Fan652w 8 месяцев назад
Very good point. Two new sources of 'random delays' which cause bunching.
@MrBirdnose
@MrBirdnose 8 месяцев назад
A major factor in bunching is having to load disabled passengers via the lift, which can massively increase the amount of time needed at a stop, especially since the driver generally has to leave his/her seat to secure the wheelchair and then un-secure it when the person wants to get off again.
@Fly0High
@Fly0High 8 месяцев назад
Happens quite often in the Lisboa metro area. Cadencies are schedule quite wide and during rush hour it gets even worse since bus lanes are non existent. A lot of people opt to drive instead which as we all know makes traffic even worse.
@jasertio
@jasertio 8 месяцев назад
I've seen bunching happening right out of the terminal. So I think the drivers just decided to leave all at once.
@jasonriddell
@jasonriddell 8 месяцев назад
could be intentional also so that there is capacity once the first bus is full and it starts skipping pickups on asymmetric routes - say rush hour in the suburbs going to the jobs down town
@BobFrTube
@BobFrTube 8 месяцев назад
If the stations showed the actual arrival time of the following buses perhaps seeing a bus bypass a station wouldn't be too painful. Keeping people informed is key.
@Fan652w
@Fan652w 8 месяцев назад
In many European cities the 'real time' displays at stop tell the more discerning passengers that there is 'another one behind'.
@factorization4845
@factorization4845 8 месяцев назад
In Hong Kong, bunching is very common which are typical bad, but there are certain routes that intentionally bunch because the number of people waiting is overwhelming that a single double-decker per minute is far too little to handle, but they are regulated that they cannot divert away from the original route to reach the destination quicker. Therefore, the solution is to have multiple buses bunch up on departure, so that everyone can get on the bus fairly easily. This is where the best long-term solution is to split routes but it's not so easy.
@someguy31415
@someguy31415 8 месяцев назад
🆗, I’m gonna have to say this, because it’s SOOO annoying to ALWAYS hear this wrong. It’s: FEWER passengers, FEWER buses, FEWER stops. All of these are COUNTABLE.
@billythorne
@billythorne 8 месяцев назад
One thing you didn't mention is route length. Cities with super long bus routes tend to have much more of a bunching problem, as these long routes are more likely to be impacted by bunching.
@Mr_mime2387HK
@Mr_mime2387HK 8 месяцев назад
In Hong Kong, the city I am from, bus bunching occasionally occurs but only on those routes with headways tighter than 10 minutes or so(tho some are special services)and isn't much of a deal as you can always take the MTR as an alternative. However, in Norwich, UK, where I currently study in, buses are basically the only form of public transport you can take to travel within the city, and they have pretty tight 7-minute headways. While this seems good, it means a minor delay can easily cause bunching to occur. Not mentioning most of the passengers never purchase a ticket in advance, leading to unnecessarily long dwell times just for a person to board and buy a ticket. And at peak hours, the buses have too little capacity to soak up the sudden increase of passengers(these buses only have a capacity of around 90, those in Hong Kong can pick up more than 120 passengers easily), leading to, yes, longer dwell times and delays. As a person who has grown up in a city that has excellent transit, the public transport in Norwich can be described as horrendously bad.
@un_tizio_a_caso2701
@un_tizio_a_caso2701 8 месяцев назад
In Turin in the 80's ATM (now GTT) developed a management system to keep the service more regular and to know what happens on the vehicles. In the 2000's this was updated and now every driver knows if they are on schedule and distance from the previous and the following veicle and obviously communicate with the management center.
@SydneyCityTransportVlogs
@SydneyCityTransportVlogs 8 месяцев назад
I'm not sure about the rest of the world but particularly in Sydney, there are 2 types of bus drivers. 1) Schedule? What schedule? I thought this was a leisurely Sunday drive. 2) I'm on the last lap of this F1 race and I'm coming first no matter what
@timor64
@timor64 8 месяцев назад
Last month, for the first time ever in Sydney, I was waiting for a bunched bus and the first one went on "set down only" and skipped our stops to catch up with timetable. Just 2 minutes later another came long. I thought this was great. I would rather have a bus go on set-down only now and then than removing stops.
@LeZylox
@LeZylox 8 месяцев назад
Do you really have a problem with drivers not caring about the schedule? That's such an easy fix and it's unimaginable where I'm from. Why do they do this?
@boyjimini11
@boyjimini11 8 месяцев назад
When I caught the 99 at an unpopular stop going to high-school sometimes I'd be skipped 3 or 4 times. Bus drivers need to coordinate their skips. They would all point behind them like the next guy wasn't going to just skip me too hahah
@zenojai10
@zenojai10 8 месяцев назад
..just want to point out, that the subscribe logo is a bit off-position. It's nice to see changes around here
@Rollermonkey1
@Rollermonkey1 8 месяцев назад
I know we're not supposed to point this out, but the biggest initiator of bunching, particularly on any network with high-step boarding, is wheelchair loading. I remember San Diego Transit used to have high-floor buses, and loading or unloading a single wheelchair could take 5-7 minutes. On 15 minute headways, that one rider could eat the entire spacing just by getting on and off the bus. Near as I can tell, low-floor buses and level boarding is a hugely essential part of the solution, far more than station number or spacing.
@thecleeze6359
@thecleeze6359 8 месяцев назад
I remember the bus system in Sweden being very good. Always on time. No issues. I'm not sure if it's technically ironic that I find the train system in Japan to be so good (or better), but the bus system in Japan to be so bad/flawed. Maybe it's just the part of Japan that I live in. The trains are great. The busses, uh, just walk... The bus system in Sweden made a very positive and lasting impression on me though. I guess that was almost 30 years ago...
@LeZylox
@LeZylox 8 месяцев назад
10:05 the digital systems where I'm from are accurate up to 10 seconds and they change colour if you're late or too early and are usually well respected by the drivers, I've never heard a radio call of someone saying to slow down or speed up
@gordonwhitney6052
@gordonwhitney6052 8 месяцев назад
How common is the usage of timepoints? I don't travel much, so I'm only familiar with the transit system in my hometown of Calgary. Commenters complaining about seeing a bus waiting at a stop for no apparent reason confused me a little bit at first. Every bus route in Calgary has multiple timepoints. These are stops where there is a deliberate gap of a few minutes between scheduled arrival and departure times for the buses on that route. These will frequently be at bus loops, stops near LRT stations, or natural transfer points where the route intersects a different heavily used route. If a bus is running a little behind schedule, it cuts short the wait time at the next time point. If it's gotten ahead of schedule, it proceeds normally to the next timepoint, then waits there until the scheduled departure time. This 'wait to get back on schedule' ONLY happens at timepoints, so regular Calgary Transit users are not surprised or frustrated to see buses waiting at timepoints - it's expected. Clearly, a system that uses timepoints should produce less bunching than one that doesn't. Not that there use is guaranteed to eliminate bunching. I have seen it happen here. Not a lot, but on occasion. Timepoints always seemed to me a simple, sensible and relatively straightforward way to deal with (or at least attempt to) all the little things that can put a bus off schedule one way or the other. Such that, I always assumed their usage would be near universal. Until I read some of those comments here. The commenters in question do not seem familiar with timepoints, at least not as I understand their use. So how common is the use of timepoints for buses in urban transit systems around the world?
@DecDen2
@DecDen2 8 месяцев назад
I love the video! I find a bus in Ottawa interesting because they purposely send 2 buses out at the same time sometimes, so the two buses can take turns picking people up and leapfrog each other at each stop, effectively halving the stops and saving me a lot of time. However, when the buses are doing pick up and drop off or mostly drop off both buses stop together pretty often, which isn't as great.
@jasonriddell
@jasonriddell 8 месяцев назад
so a labour expensive way to NOT buy bendys and get the capacity of bendys have seen it done as a feed in for a overload relief bus at the start of "rush hour" or a factory let out second bus tails the first till the first is full and starts skipping stops and the second then takes over but this is used on a VERY unbalanced line where pickups are way higher then drop offs
@MarioFanGamer659
@MarioFanGamer659 8 месяцев назад
Ah, the short turn, something I've experienced a couple times on our wonderful German railways... Do note that for regional trains at least (and where I live), most significant delays tend to be around three to eight minutes and bunching only happens at more exceptional instances like infra failures (how often did the points fail again? lol).
@shaveandahaircut3bits
@shaveandahaircut3bits 8 месяцев назад
i would really love to see a video talk about paratransit, which while it doesn't often bunch suffers from just about every problem associated with it. It's always extremely far behind schedule in a way that increases throughout the day (hope you like getting home from work 3 hours late), very high stress and unpredictable, its a genuine nightmare. The nightmare is always worse in places that have no other transit to speak of (urban sprawl, especially low income areas that can't afford a 'real' bus system and have a lot of elderly and disabled people). very, very few people are aware of how unbelievably bad it is, and it would mean a lot to see somebody talk about it, since it's a fact of life for people who must rely on paratransit in areas that don't have 'real' transit. I would do it myself but I think I would start screaming and never stop haha
@jasonriddell
@jasonriddell 8 месяцев назад
"special" transit sub systems don't get the attention they need as "normal" people do NOT interact with these systems so they are the ones under funded OR cut when funding "decisions" need to be made
@charliebramley
@charliebramley 8 месяцев назад
At least I won't get angry anymore when my bus drives past without stopping (I'll just know it's trying to catch-up so is skipping stops)
@alejo3781
@alejo3781 8 месяцев назад
Another problem with bunching is that beacause people have been waiting for so long for a bus, they all get on the lead bus as soon as it arrives, so when the second bus gets to the station there's almost no people. Then most users will feel that the buses are overcrowded, even though the total capacity could have been enough for everyone to go comfortably.
@ricktownend9144
@ricktownend9144 8 месяцев назад
One reason they all get on the first bus is the fear that, while you run along to the second bus, it will depart, and then the first one will leave while you are racing back to that! This is worse in places like rural UK, where two- or three-door buses are unheard of.
@liamness
@liamness 8 месяцев назад
Live bus times on stops can help with that. Sometimes I'll see an absolutely rammed bus, notice that there's one only a few minutes behind, and decide to wait for that.
@AxtInsBeinLP
@AxtInsBeinLP 8 месяцев назад
In Dresden it is common that the empty bus overtakes the full bus so it can clear the upcoming stops. And in my experience bunching is a sign for an overwhelmed transit form, so another solution could be to switch from bus service in that certain route to tram or from tram to stadtbahn/metro.
@underground_e
@underground_e 8 месяцев назад
You can explain things like these very good! I understood it very quick 👍👍👍
@NATO4623
@NATO4623 8 месяцев назад
The best solution for this is on very busy routes ,create an new express route so that people can reach downtown faster or build a subway line along the route (ofc the subway stations is not every bus stops )
@62Cristoforo
@62Cristoforo 8 месяцев назад
Any public transit sharing a public thoroughfare must be given priority over private vehicular traffic, like at left turn lanes turning into stations.
@theultimatereductionist7592
@theultimatereductionist7592 8 месяцев назад
I know the solution to everyone leaving and arriving whenever they want: CARS!
@TheMntnG
@TheMntnG 8 месяцев назад
I have never experienced bunching in Switzerland, we have transport schedules
@jgharston
@jgharston 8 месяцев назад
Hong Kong solves the problem with the public light buses by just abandoning any form of timetable. The bus waits at the terminus until the driver has enough fares, then sets off. Of course, this works best when the two terminii have the majority of boarding passengers, as the majority of the route the bus will be full and can't take on any extra passengers.
@adithyachebrol7
@adithyachebrol7 8 месяцев назад
I love the NYC Subway solution to this: if downtown 6 trains are delayed, and the train in front could delay the train behind, they make an announcement that the next stop is bleeker st and then brooklyn bridge. This skips Astor place, Spring st, and Canal St, so a bunch of people get off. But when you do hear the announcement it doesnt take much thinking to realise that another 6 train is probably just behind it.
@joermnyc
@joermnyc 8 месяцев назад
The MTA here seems to allow lateness, but not running early, so drivers will sometimes stop and wait for the schedule to catch up. Plus if there’s bunching the lead bus will stop while the trailing bus will move to the next stop (if no one is getting off there). They’ll then continue to pass each other like this to try to stop overcrowding at stops, or on the bus itself. Of course if one bus is stuffed to the gills they won’t stop to pick up more passengers at all.
@jamesphillips2285
@jamesphillips2285 8 месяцев назад
Nothing is more annoying than getting to the bus stop on time; only to miss the bus because the cowboy driver decided to go early.
@Irsu85
@Irsu85 8 месяцев назад
Which is very stupid if you are on a bus, but the next bus which normally goes 15 minutes later, passes you, becoming the lead bus, but after everyone has already been picked up, so then instead of the front bus being the slowest, the back bus is the slowest (last time that happened to me I tried transferring to the front bus during a loop in the route but I missed it)
@falsemcnuggethope
@falsemcnuggethope 8 месяцев назад
At least new passengers get on the fast bus at that point instead of making the slow bus even slower.
@Irsu85
@Irsu85 8 месяцев назад
@@falsemcnuggethope Unless if the overtake happens so close to the end location where the only part where it might be useful is on a route where there are already super frequent busses and not a lot of people at that time
@reilandeubank
@reilandeubank 8 месяцев назад
My university’s transit system somehow manages to have this so badly😭 the route I take has 2 buses on it and it takes 30 minutes (with light traffic) to complete the loop, so on a good day there’s 15 minute headways (no schedule, you kind of just have to hope). The issue is that SO OFTEN they get bunched up, so you can barely miss the two buses and at that point it’s quicker to just walk rather than wait the 30 min for a bus route that would’ve saved me 5-10 minutes
@Marconius6
@Marconius6 8 месяцев назад
America: "We only have one bus an hour, problem solved"
@stephenhyland4256
@stephenhyland4256 8 месяцев назад
I'm a bus driver usually the controllers are allowed tell drivers who are ahead of schedule to slow down but aren't allowed tell drivers who are behind schedule to speed up as that could be dangerous.
@varoonnone7159
@varoonnone7159 8 месяцев назад
We expect them to be on time, not late, not early, but on time Why is it so hard for them to understand ?
@ntatenarin
@ntatenarin 8 месяцев назад
My worst nightmare is when a crazy person/people enters the train car I'm in. While I keep hearing there is more protection on the trains in my area, I never see it.
@AMPProf
@AMPProf 8 месяцев назад
WHAT CRAZY PEROS Holy crap hold my Hand Waht.. WHO.. It's 009 And the quuen frozen
@mariusfacktor3597
@mariusfacktor3597 8 месяцев назад
This is one of the best produced RMTransit videos I've ever seen.
@lolalasziv1059
@lolalasziv1059 8 месяцев назад
In Berlin these kind of busses are called Rudelbusse (Pack Busses). In the last five years it got worse. More and more lines are effected. Another phenomenon in Berlin are subway ghost trains. The Daisy System shows that the next train should come in 4 minutes. These 4 minutes run down (Sometime it takes 6 minutes to do so.) and it start to blink, like the train is coming now. It blinks for several minutes, than it disappear from the board and the next normal train shows up. I wonder what happened to all the trains. Wormholes?
@getta4483
@getta4483 8 месяцев назад
Can you go through the transit system of Baltimore? I think it has a very peculiar transit system
@bobbybobby7770
@bobbybobby7770 8 месяцев назад
RELATABLE.
@tilmanarchivar8945
@tilmanarchivar8945 8 месяцев назад
I think I should praise my transit agency, I rarely expirenced this problem. Dresden has the changing rythms of traffic lights for the Tram to fasten things up, and a app to know when the next Tram / Bus appears.
@Journeys-travelwithme
@Journeys-travelwithme 8 месяцев назад
cool video😊🎉⭐️👍 subscribed😊
@fromhigherground4272
@fromhigherground4272 8 месяцев назад
Growing up in India, which was 50 years ago, bunching happened frequently, the bus behind just overtook the bus in front without stopping at the same stop, provided no one was getting off at that stop and even out the service. There was and still is a bus driver and ticket conductor.
@DatFoamRailfannerCZ
@DatFoamRailfannerCZ 8 месяцев назад
Can you make a video about the prague metro?
@drdewott9154
@drdewott9154 8 месяцев назад
Good stuff. Bunching is a huge issue in Copenhagen where I'm from. Especially on the trunk "A-bus" lines. Like on Line 1A for example it is not uncommon, especially northbound, to wait for 20-25 minutes and see 3-4 buses in a row, for a line that'd normally run every 7.5 minutes. And thats just one example. Though bunching sometimes occurs on the S-train as well since so many lines share a congested network core, it means malfunctions or errors can happen super easily. And of course my own mother who already doesn't like public transit was in the city last night. I had dropped her off at a park n ride station and when she was trying to get back home the trains for her line got bunched and the departure displays at the station didn't display that properly. So she already waited 17 minutes for her train then even more, and she was already distrustful of any and all information displayed since she could not count on it. Especially when even the platform staff said they just didnt know why it did this. She ultimately ended up taking another line after waiting 35 minutes. This was on top of her forgetting her phone so communication was a pain and she couldn't look up the journey planners live feed... which she wouldn't have done regardless because she is already so distrustful of transit and dislikes it so much. Sorry for the long rant.
@notactuallymyrealname
@notactuallymyrealname 8 месяцев назад
Back when I was a bus commuter, pdx drivers on my high-frequency route would often roll past my stop in a vehicle heaving with passengers and make giant "GET THE NEXT ONE" gestures. The first time it happened I was annoyed but I figured it out soon enough. They'd also sometimes just switch to drop-off only and use the route display to communicate it, until things evened out again.
@frafraplanner9277
@frafraplanner9277 8 месяцев назад
Was this on Line 72?
@jamesfra1311
@jamesfra1311 8 месяцев назад
I used to take the second bus to school, only waiting a couple minutes for an empty bus, otherwise was a cramp and packed bus and missing both would be half an hour wait... pain...
@ZontarDow
@ZontarDow 8 месяцев назад
If Toronto has too many trams, Montreal could use some. The island's population justifies 1200km of trackage yet it has 0.
@Canleaf08
@Canleaf08 8 месяцев назад
The Rue Sainte-Catherine O / E had trams in the past.
@ZontarDow
@ZontarDow 8 месяцев назад
@@Canleaf08 Montreal had 500km of trackage in the past and a intracity tram that connected downton to Longuile and Granby
@STUDIOHUSKY1996
@STUDIOHUSKY1996 8 месяцев назад
Here in Portland, OR, you'll occasionally see a bus from another line behind a bus on another line, because many of our routes share the same bus stops with eachother. It's always kinda funny to see that. But after we opened up our first Frequent Express line - buses that run every 12 minutes or less in a semi-BRT system - it's really not uncommon to see a normal bus following right behind the iconic green bus, which is even more hilarious.
@simonro9168
@simonro9168 8 месяцев назад
Because Munich has only one cross city train tunnel, but a well-run system of trams, metro and busses, I rarely if ever see bunching in those modes, but relatively often in the S-Bahn core.
@m4rch84
@m4rch84 8 месяцев назад
Just experienced Bouncing on the u6 in Berlin. As I was not in a hurry, I waited the second, almost empty, train
@RMTransit
@RMTransit 8 месяцев назад
Thats very surprising since the Berlin U-Bahn doesn't usually run all that frequently!
@m4rch84
@m4rch84 8 месяцев назад
@@RMTransit there was irregular frequency due to a police control on a train. But in the last weeks u9 was all the time irregular. Usually they travel every 5 minutes during the day.
@MichalProzac
@MichalProzac 8 месяцев назад
But bunching has one pretty big advantage. If you wait for a wee bit longer you get an empty bus/tram whatever. And as someone who got fed up with commuting in public transport because of them being too full, riding an empty line is a blessing. Especially if the bus 2 minutes previously was packed.
@highpath4776
@highpath4776 8 месяцев назад
At school in London , the teacher asked the class - "what comes in bunches?" (expecting Flowers or Bananas as an answer , clever kid in the class (not me) shouted "Buses !"
@AnthemsOfEurope
@AnthemsOfEurope 8 месяцев назад
I never understood the concept of buying tickets at the front door for local public transit, why not just let people buy tickets beforehand? Luckily it's a big problem in USA-Canada only
@FullLengthInterstates
@FullLengthInterstates 8 месяцев назад
for neighborhood scale routes, close stations and very high frequency are necessary to keep buses competitive vs the much faster on demand e bike. removing stops and reducing frequency essentially transforms your neighborhood shuttle into an intercity coach - which is a different kind of bus.
@martin.brandt
@martin.brandt 8 месяцев назад
Oh, why is there no bus symbol that comes both in a door-side version and a no-door-side version, for realism? Would greatly improve many illustrations!
@wietzebraem
@wietzebraem 8 месяцев назад
It's good that you bring this up, from January 6, 2024, Belgian public transport De Lijn has a new transport plan that will purchase half of their bus stops and said they want people to go to the nearest bus stop & tram stop. But some people who live in rural villages have to there is no bus stop on their king door, they have to go by car to a big city and then take the bus & flex bus (and some flex buses did not arrive on time) & tram
@doady69
@doady69 3 месяца назад
This is the purpose of rapid transit, to increase capacity and increase reliability on very busy routes. For rapid transit to "increase speed" is a common misconception. Rapid transit is actually about maintaining speed as ridership increases. A bus with no riders is going to be very fast and reliable. It's only as the amount of riders increase and the bus has to spend more time to pick up and drop off riders that the speed and reliability decreases. Rapid transit measures include: 1. Higher frequency 2. All-door boarding (proof-of-payment or fare-paid zone) 3. Longer vehicles 4. Limited stops 5. Separate right of way 6. Signal priority 7. Grade separation
@touwenwaterman1229
@touwenwaterman1229 8 месяцев назад
The first minutes of your video, i thought you were just making a video dedicated to Belgian bus operator De Lijn ("The Line"), as literally all the phenomena (stuck in traffic, badly distributed and accessible stops, a really bad drivers' culture,..) are occurring SO frequently here. There must be somehow a reason why Belgium NEVER shows up in videos about good urbanism or transportation..
@lajawi.
@lajawi. 8 месяцев назад
Have you ever had to wait for almost an hour every time you want to get to your campus, because the public transit is actually that bad?! And since recently, the company made it even worse...
@hydrogenvshelium6851
@hydrogenvshelium6851 8 месяцев назад
To me, there are 3 possible solutions: 1. Just let it bunch (only works for headways
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