Buying an Airplane InTheHangar Ep12

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Real talk with airplane mechanics about what to look for when buying an airplane. Host Dan Millican purchased his first airplane recently and gets great advice from two A&P/IA's and another pilot who has bought and sold many aircraft. Featuring John Efinger, Tom Conte, and Mark Zimmermann.
Special thanks to TCN Studios studiosattcn.com/, Top Pup Media and Serendipitous Films s-films.com/

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27 дек 2018

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Комментарии : 79

@bcengelhardt 5 лет назад

I dont agree with having the same mechanic who has been taking care of the plane do the pre buy. I would want an impartial prebuy done.

@BrianAnim 4 года назад

Sound cuts out at 14:44 - 14:54 surprised I didn't see anyone else mention it.

@isactucker3788 4 года назад

It does cut out I second this.

@christiancormier7847 5 лет назад

Just wish this conversation had been longer. Really good stuff. Thanks

@gregjohnson3022 5 лет назад

Excellent! Thanks for covering.

@haywardvermaak4183 5 лет назад

A great eye opener to aircraft ownership, to know how to go about before making a very important decision. Thankyou for a informative program.

@MichaelLloyd 5 лет назад

There were some really good insights into aircraft ownership in this video. Nicely done.

@doranjaffas9645 4 года назад

1. How passionate are you about flying? 2. Can you / are you willing to afford a hangar? 3. Experimental Amature Built or Factory Built? Both have their advantages and draw backs. 4. Be realistic about the type of flying you will be doing. Many pilots..not all by any means..like speed but unless long cross countries..several hundred miles or more are done regularly the speed advantages are minimal. 5. Speed costs alot. Speed and payload cost more. 6. For an average single engine fixed gear airplane ( factory built ) the annual inspection figures $ 800.00 to double that. Are you again..willing to afford that. A two place..half to two thirds of that. Experimental Amature Built are much less but how skilled are you at doing your own maintenance. ( note ) EAB aircraft get a condition inspection every year that can be done by an A & P mechanic. Less expensive but sometimes not as thorough. 7. My final but not necessarily the final word. Flying can be very costly and no more costly than other interests. What are you willing to not do in order to fly? An airplane doesn't need to cost any more than a nice used car. Maintenance, hangar rent and flying expense no more than, beer, cigarettes, bowling, dining out, movies etc. in combination. If aviating is your passion than even with an income of 25k or so you can find a way to or can be shown a way to make it happen for you. Also..partnerships in aircraft ownership can work for some but be sure you can get along with the others and the requirements for the partnership. Doran Jaffas

@technomentis 4 года назад

Excellent!!

@wareairaviationservicesllc4933 4 года назад

Great video to show how important prebuy examinations are. I also like to help clients ensure they don't miss anything by providing them with a checklist throughout the whole process. Paperwork is just as important as anything else.

@sameersmerchant 5 лет назад

Great Video

@MrSixstring2k 5 лет назад

Great video.

@MrDyll 3 года назад

Great stuff

@TheEarthandyou 4 года назад

Thumbs up. Sometimes you set your goals and find a way along the way.

@terryrutherford2114 5 лет назад

Good stuff. Thanks. I'm currently looking at a 1968 C177 Cardinal with a little over 500 hours on a 180HP power plant. Thanks for the information.

@TakingOff 5 лет назад

Thats a nice airplane to get. You get a complex aircraft that's pretty fast for its class. Nice.

@muhammadsteinberg 4 года назад

Don't know if I buy the if you go way past TBO your parts will be more worn and it'll cost more. The engine doesn't know it pasted TBO so a deterioration doesn't start the 1st day after TBO. Borescoping, oil analysis, compression testing, leaks, sound and whatever else you can think of works wonders. Of course if you have the cash and it gives you peace of mind adhering to TBO is your best bet.

@stanleybest8833 2 года назад

Having a cheap place to keep your plane is Numero uno. I severely upgraded my avionics from a tube radio to a fabulous transistor ARC and an adf. Rebuilding the motor isn't expensive. Rebuilding a motor wrong is expensive. Many people dump more money on snowmobiles than planes. I bought the Continental motor first. Impulse? What pushed my button is more people have trained in Cessna. 150's than any other plane. Waco? Chief? Ercoupe? Cherokee? Musketeer? Tripacer? I would have been happy with any one of them. Planes and loans go together like booze and Corvettes.

@Pantherjonvideos 5 лет назад

Good food for thought when about to go make that investment in purchasing a plane..I am looking at several right now, and almost getting to the point of 'analysis paralysis'..LOLI seriously need to nail down my primary mission for the plane and find the one that fits that mission..

@TakingOff 5 лет назад

That's what I did. I defined my mission and selected the plane best suited for that.

@johnsouthworthnz 4 года назад

The advice is pretty good for most purchase scenarios. I didn't do any of it though for my last purchase which is a Piper Navajo. The aircraft was owned by a small regional airline that went bust. The engines were at TBO for Part 35. My intent was to fly it privately in a non-IFR mode. There was a question about the log books and maint records. It also stopped flying at TBO but had been ground run every now and again over a number of years. I brought it sight unseen from the liquidator. I did an inspection with a AME who had done work on it and figured out a plan for the annual and 100hr to get it back in the air. At any point in that process I was willing to walk and part it out for more than money in. Didn't need to.

@TakingOff 4 года назад

Let us know how the Navajo does!

@johnsouthworthnz 4 года назад

@@TakingOff Will do, I knew prior it would need a new battery, and that props were time ex, done 300 and 700, so a job there. What I didn't know for sure but seriously suspected tyres - (needs two new main tyres), defuel. Just do oil then good to go right?? Of course not. Am going to 500hr mag service. Fix a faulty alternator, a stair is missing but overall run of the mill(so far). It was in a decent hanger. All up in the air including purchase estimate of USD$21,000 with 100hr/annual done. Plus USD$1700 for fuel!!! 100LL is expensive here. Nearest burger joint/ice cream shop 30 mins return. It was a punt!!

@johnsouthworthnz 4 года назад

So an update on the Navajo. Have overhauled the mags x 4, fuel servos, 1 fuel pump, props in for re-life, minor corrosion rectified, some brackets manufactured, new ELT(missing), nose gear re-rigged, ADs addressed. Test flight in 3 weeks.

@johnsouthworthnz 2 года назад

@@TakingOff Have a look at a video of me taking off from a beach strip. Plane after two years has been fine, normal squarks. Done around 400 hours in it since it got going. Now refitting interior and paint, all new. Already did some avionics, NGT9000+, 530 to 530W, refurbed HSI.

@almarasco8088 5 лет назад

Purchasing the airplane is the easy part. Maintaining it is whole different story. Some people should not own them if they can’t afford to fix them correctly. Great discussion

@peteranninos2506 2 года назад

Just saw this video (October 2021) lots of good information. The first Cardinal RG I looked at, I was going to sign the papers the next day after I flew cross country to see it. 30 hour engine and 3 blade prop plus a big "GTN" in the panel. I was digging through a massive box of paperwork looking for anything I might be concerned with and saw it had failed the new SB regarding the SPAR! It had so much corrosion that the eddycurrent guy couldn't even do the test. The shop that routinely worked on the plane said to not walk from it but run from it! And the owner was an A&P! I looked at 2 more and finally found a good one in Arkansas, in a hangar it's whole life with a fresh prop and engine plus a nicely upgraded panel. He had just completed all this work and lost his medical. My point is, it took a year and a half of searching, as prices skyrocketed but I'm happy with my decision. Fortunately I did my research. Great show (except for the one camera being very green white balance and audio dropout 😀 (I do TV for a living so I'm probably the only one who noticed!). Keep up the great work! P.S. This plane hasn't flown since I flew it with the owner 6 months ago. In April.

@TakingOff 2 года назад

Thanks Peter. On the early episodes, I spent zero so had to take what we could get and since we were live to tape, just couldn’t get that camera balanced. We now pay a small amount to crew and have stepped up production value a little, but still don’t spend what I would do for one of my clients.

@peteranninos2506 2 года назад

@@TakingOff, thanks for your fast response! I wasn't trying to be critical. Just something something I'd notice. When I see that in a Hollywood big budget flick there's no excuse and it bugs me!😳. Oh, I should clarify, the plane that hasn't flown since I flew in it was the one with the corroded spar. Great show and maybe when I retire maybe I can help out in some way?

@flyifri 4 года назад

Cessnajohn can you please tell me if one aileron cable snaps on 172 because of fraying, will the other aileron work just fine.??? Thank you advance.!

@darioushdadyan1288 4 года назад

I would have liked addressing the auto engine conversion.

@jefferykirk2322 2 года назад

Question if some one gave you a. Free 420 and the engines where hafe froze up would you rebuild or replace or let it go?

@dreamcreator2552 5 лет назад

As a T210 owner, how do you feel about the P210 vs. T210 and mission differences. Do you see the need/value in pressurization, etc offered with the P210?

@TakingOff 5 лет назад

For my mission, I lose a little bit of useful if I went with a P210. However, MANY times I wish I was flying a pressurized cabin.

@lukewarm1217 2 года назад

If the crank is good @ the tbo and not replaced, how many hours until the next tbo?

@lukewarm1217 2 года назад

If u reuse the crank what’s the new two?

@mmpalmer1 4 года назад

cezzna??? Good video.

@jamman55 3 года назад

I heard overhaul schedules (TBO) was a scam. That many engines run perfectly well beyond their TBO time.

@joshupmeyer7318 4 года назад

I would but I spent all my money on flight training

@saml8869 5 лет назад

Say I’m looking for a Skylane. I live in Florida and I find a mechanic at my Florida airport who knows Skylanes but I’m looking to buy one at Airport KXXX that’s six states away. How do I get somebody to do a pre-buy inspection on that airplane? I know it’s probably not a good idea to use a mechanic at KXXX to do the pre-buy. Is it out of the question to ask my local mechanic to fly commercially to KXXX six states away to do a pre-buy? What are the options?

@TakingOff 5 лет назад

Great question. When I bought my 210, I wish I had flown my mechanic out for the pre-buy (which is totally acceptable). I hired a company about an hour away to do the pre-buy. I agree I'd avoid a mechanic on site unless you know/trust him. If I were doing it today, I'd fly my mechanic out.

@Stepclimb 5 лет назад

Join the type club associated with that airframe. They will usually have an online forum. Ask members on the forum which mechanic they would recommend (that is very familiar with that type of aircraft) that is close to the airplane you want to inspect. Even better, go WITH the mechanic during the pre-buy so they can show you the parts of the aircraft that deserve special attention during inspections. This will allow you to see the airplane opened up and will serve to increase your understanding of how the various systems work.

@silentchicha7496 4 года назад

I feel two different vibes from this vdeo

@stevemullin1195 5 лет назад

Got a question for you....I’m doing my PPL check ride in January and want to go all the way to CFI to teach as a 2nd career after I retired 10 yrs ago....but concerned with the economics to reach my goal. I’m starting my instrument training next year but after that I have to build hours to continue. Would it be more economical to join a flying club...but still have to rent the clubs planes but not have to worry about the maintenance or buy a low hour plane, build the required hours, then sell it after getting my CFI, or hope to have a plane the flight school might be interested in and then do a lease back....any help from you or your group would be appreciated.

@TakingOff 5 лет назад

Joining a Flying Club is a great way to build some time while not having to pay full costs of maintenance (you still pay your share usually, but now split with a larger group of people). A lot of people we've talked to suggest just buying a cessna 152 or such. If you get a low time engine, you can build a whole lot of hours pretty inexpensively. Check out the video about becoming a professional pilot that Christy hosted on our channel. She talks to CFI's, Part 135 and Part 121 pilots about the merits of all that.

@stevemullin1195 5 лет назад

@@TakingOff Being 6'1" and 280lbs, dont think I could get into a cessna 152. I currently train in a C172S, but I'm looking at a grumman cheetah or tiger. A friend in OKC has one and were stopping off there on way back to LA from detroit to see her and her plane...maybe test fly it to see what there like.

@TakingOff 5 лет назад

@@stevemullin1195 Bryan Turner (@justplanesilly) flies a Grumman and can give you a lot of advice.

@canconservative8976 5 лет назад

Definitely buying a plane is the way to go...but it has to be the right plane (low hours well maintained) and at the right cost.....A Cessna or Piper Cherokee around the $50k range is a good buy for a 1970's aircraft, with a rebuild and low hours. If you were renting at the club for $120/hr and flying once per week, that's almost $500/month.... The bank would lend you $200k for $500/month...so you could finance a $50k plane for $100 / month!....so cheaper than renting, and you can re-sell.

@stevemullin1195 5 лет назад

Can Conservative thanks for the info...I just need to figure out what plane to shoot for. I’m going to the AOPA fly in in Livermore in June, so hope to see all types of planes there and hope to be able to get into them to see how they feel...then find that model of plane locally that I could either rent or do a test flight it.....just wish we had an area like autos where you can test drive the plane.

@landonsock6408 5 лет назад

Wish I could hear it, love the channel but with volume at 100% hard to hear.

@TakingOff 5 лет назад

Hi Landon-- looks like a have a few seconds cut out around 14:45... but otherwise, audio levels are in good shape. Have listened on several computers. Might be something with you system maybe?

@freakfly23 5 лет назад

Mistook suppository for hearing aid. At least he knows where his hearing aids are.

@FlyguyChevy 5 лет назад

why was mark audio cut @ 14:45?

@TakingOff 5 лет назад

Weird. Had not noticed that before and nobody has said anything.

@jefferykirk2322 2 года назад

Does your mechanic have a e mail to ask about cessna wiring?

@TakingOff 2 года назад

He might at his website: cessnarigging.com

@jefferykirk2322 2 года назад

@@TakingOff Do you follow any of the other plane builders on u tube ,I take you and your mechanics advice to heart keep up the good work !

@TakingOff 2 года назад

I like Bryan Walstrom at ExperimentalAircraftChannel.

@jackbego6571 4 года назад

During taxi your student did not appear to be paying attention to anything you were saying!

@felixtorres1895 4 года назад

Bad advice no one’s going to rat on himself if they were doing a poor job.Do not use the same mechanic that was taking care of the airplane.

@TakingOff 4 года назад

I think that was the point we were making- don’t use the same mechanic for your preflight that also takes care of the airplane.

@aaronjtong 4 года назад

Why am I watching this? I don’t even know anything about aviation lol

@kevinfarrell7420 5 лет назад

Sorry but consulting with the A&P who has been working with the airplane is terrible advice! If there is s chronic (or acute) problem with the A&E, they won’t be the ones pointing it out! And, he/she is not going to magically find problems that have been consistently overlooked. As a broker I have taken more than one aircraft off a fresh inspection to an offsite pre-buy and have gotten burned by a fresh set of eyes. It was professionally embarrassing to say the least!

@TakingOff 5 лет назад

I think you misunderstand what we were talking about. The advice is to get a A&P you trust to check out the plane. We talked about my case, where years before, my mechanic had been the mechanic on the plane. I simply talked with him about the plane and had an A&P out in that state do the pre-buy.

@tomconte2847 5 лет назад

There will always be owners that want the cheapest annual possible and A&Ps that will do it. But when the plane comes up for sale and asked of any known issues, the A&P better be truthful or they will be in trouble if there is an accident in the future. There could be known problems that where deferred but a new owner wants it taken care of before the sale. If you got "burned" someone was under pressure to make a sale. Either to move the plane or profit from the repair. As it was mentioned, don't be quick to buy an airplane, do the homework first.

@hvacmike1175 5 лет назад

You can rent a lot of hours in a airplane for the cost of a payment. When you add hanger rental , insurance annual, maintenance and repairs. Also fixed cost are always there. A c172 is around $120 -$160 an hour depending on age Location and avionics. So if your averaging a grand a month (will be higher) on payments hanger rent and fuel that’s $12000 a year that’s 80 hours at $150 a hour. Or over 6 hour per month flight time. With no worries and no surprise repairs. That being said if I could I would rather own than rent.

@cessnarigging 5 лет назад

““Sorry but consulting with the A&P who has been working with the airplane is terrible !” I think what you are stating is getting a single pre-purchase from the attending A&P that has been maintaining the Aircraft might be a bad idea. Consulting the A&P that is maintaining the Aircraft would be advisable and generally one of the first steps in pursuing a potential purchase. I have in the past told perspective buyers that they should get an independent pre-purchase since I was involved with the maintenance and had a working relationship with the current Owner. That said I have found buyers for several of my maintenance Aircraft when the Owner moves into bigger-faster Aircraft during an upgrade. I have a great customer base and they have always been very forthcoming with providing a potential buyer my carry-over discrepancy list and welcomed the potential buyer to contact me with any technical questions. I guess it all breaks down to the kind of Owners you are dealing with during Aircraft purchase. On a second note it is highly unlikely an A&P is going to look over an Aircraft that I have maintained for the past 10 years and tell me something about it I am not already aware of and on the updated carry-over listing. Again, this depends upon the type of individuals you are dealing with. I would still recommend a second unbiased pre-buy inspection for the majority of these sales transactions.

@peteranninos2506 2 года назад

@@tomconte2847 , Hi Tim. I just left a reply on how I almost got burned by buying a Cardinal RG with a rotten spar that failed 2 inspections, eddycurrent and the shop that did the maintenance. The A&P owner knew about it and repeatedly said "it's not an AD, it doesn't matter, it's only an SB! Fortunately I did my research beforehand and knew better and ran from that plane!

@alschwartz8732 5 лет назад

take away- if you don't have 250k in cash, you shouldn't buy a used cessna 172

@747-pilot 5 лет назад

I wouldn't quite say you need 250K. I would say about 50K to 75K or so, at an absolute minimum, depending on the type and condition of the aircraft (and I mean, you should have that amount EXCLUSIVELY for the aircraft, besides your other savings etc.). And just to be clear, I'm not including the PURCHASE PRICE of the aircraft in there! That is a huge variable anyways, from 20K for a 1970s C152 to 250K for a late model C172 with the lastest avionics!

@alschwartz8732 5 лет назад

@@747-pilot and there is proof of this

@747-pilot 5 лет назад

@@alschwartz8732 I'm not sure what proof I can give you. But my estimates are based on several youTube videos I've seen with detailed breakdown of the costs, and also some other research I've done. It is just an estimate.

@alschwartz8732 5 лет назад

@@747-pilot oh yes, more proof