For now, let me keep it simple... “YOU’RE GOOD” ! I’ve spent a lot of years in and around the entertainment industry, and besides everything else you do, you’re a “very pleasant and sincere individual”, to say nothing of the fact that you’re great in front of the camera. Someone once said somewhere that... “Stage presence is that (energy, or charisma and appeal), that an artist has while performing in front of others. To put it in a nut shell, some people get paid quite a lot of money to do what you do, and they don’t enjoy it at all. On the other hand, you can’t hide it. Though people can’t always see, and even sometimes don’t believe it, the sun’s “always” shin’n. Keep it up, and God Bless.
8:30 Sum cost of the shelter 9:58 Cost of the sawmill itself (New) 10:35 Sum cost of the sawmill + extensions and replacements 11:13 Final comparison (Buying lumber vs. buying sawmill)
Great break down of the costs. Diffinently, cheaper in the long run. Also, the lumber really sucks at the Depot now. Especially the 2x4’s. I have to look at about 30 just to fine 10 good ones.
I recently purchased a woodland mills HM122 and I absolutely love it. I have some projects that I am certain will justify the cost of the mill. There are so many things you can produce with the mill that you can’t buy at a box store at any price , such as custom timber’s for a timber frame building , live edge boards and unusual species of boards , etc. Most important to me , however is the pure satisfaction of producing your own lumber from trees on your own property, or other timber that would otherwise be wasted. It’s just plain fun and that makes it worth the investment to me !
I always appreciate your time and attention to these types of videos. I would say that many projects are only bid based on time and materials for that job because those other costs are not related to any single job. If I were a contractor I would not charge someone for purchasing a circular saw to do their job so in my book you would be fine taking out the tools from the cost estimate. Raw materials comparison would be fine. I track the expenses for my house build but I only track materials for the house and not the tools I buy to be more efficient because those costs would be distributed over many years by the many projects they enable. The main point for me owning a mill and tracking my lumber production is to know (over the long haul) how long did it take to justify the purchase decision of the mill. Last weekend I milled $800 worth of lumber that I can price at Home Depot and Lowes and tracked that towards the cost of the mill. I also like to keep an inventory for planning projects. Keep on milling and thanks again for another great video.
Sandy, you are a legend. Still waiting to pull the trigger on a mill, but I had no idea it would pay for itself so quickly. Maybe that's just current lumber prices talking but I thought it would take a barn and a couple acres of horse fencing to justify getting one of these. Nice to know how wrong I was.
For cost of buying the lumber you didn’t add the fuel to town and the fact you must have a trailer or pay for delivery. Also most of the cut off pieces to make cants can easily be used for construction. Cutting the 2 edges off to square it and you can build log cabin looking structures that block wind and blowing rain. They also work great as fencing.
@@Valkathon Great points. I tend to figure the costs for getting the logs offsets the other costs associated with purchasing lumber for my jobs. I admittedly also dont factor my time or the gas for the mill and plenty of other expenses. Just looking for a rough idea how much lumber the mill has saved me buying. I know Sawing With Sandy has done a full breakdown in a spreadsheet about operating a mill. It has a lot of great detail.
I like the way you broke it down Sandy......your mill purchase will more than pay in $ and the good feelings you get from this projects and ones to follow...Look ahead at what you are going to do and back at what you have done...:-)) so rewarding....The old canvas tarps are a bit pricey but they hang well and won't be as effected by wind ,They can roll up when you are working, so so won't lose any light.....
Hey Sandy don't forget, now you have the building and the sawmill. I picked up my new HM130 max in Port Perry last week. What a fine machine it is. I expect i will get many years of use and enjoyment from it. I always enjoy your videos. Thanks
I recently closed in my hay shed using greenhouse plastic from Northern Greenhouse in Manitoba. It’s UV cross woven very strong so it stands up to wind, snow and hail. Best of all it lets in the light.
Sandy! Again.. like in previous videos, you make me take a good step back and reevaluate the topic of woodyard vs sawmill from totally different angles! I have been doing similar comparisons over the years say with similar setups and yes agree ya the first job.. going to be a learning curve and perhaps the lumber yard would be the better option at the moment, but 2-3-4 projects in.. that’s where the mill.. the hard work, your time and equipment are going to shine through 💯👍! And at the 12:30 mark in this vid, you talk about having the idea and then bringing it all home with the sawmill purchase, pride in workmanship, all while maintaining your property and forest along with other items.. This was so well presented and honestly, I’m blown away! Sandy, thanks so much for having really… such great down to earth content, channels like this are very few and far between and I wanted you to know that 💯. Anyways, as always appreciate the visit and great discussion! Take care! Andrew from NB :)
Every Canadian sawer channel I see has good hearted people. A hope for humanity especially from those who work. I appreciate and subscribed. Great points on doing the due diligence. Same thing with bee hives. Build your own or buy precut unassembled. Build your own from big box lumber stores is only saving 20%. Add time of cutting ect, you are negative. Granted that having the tools to cut/build from boards. Per hive, around $200. Add the cost of a nuc ( bees and queen) $350/ hive. Then you wait a year to sell honey 🍯 because first year is all about establishing a healthy colony😉. But she’s ok with that. 😆 Thanks again and prayers
I see two options. Buy sliding barn door rails and rollers. Build the wood part with saw mill. Or buy heavy duty cotton tarps and hang them. Use wood made French cleats to hang them.
Very good video - no stinking background music a BIG plus! I don't know why it's mostly Canadian videos I wind up watching....but I'm having a lot more respect for you Canadians! Lumber prices have become insane here in Georgia as well. I have a lot of pine trees on my property I need to cut down - many are pretty big measuring ~20" at base of trunk. I want to build a carport add-on to the house so thinking of using the pine trees as source of lumber. Only piece of equipment I have is a 16" chainsaw and a wire welder (not much to speak of LoL!). My plans are to build a cheap cheap sawmill using chainsaw to rough cut lumber (skip planing it smooth). So...this is my start...here. Seems logical the Canadians know about this stuff...so I've subscribed! So it's off to watch the videos!!👍
Sandy, you finally hit the real factor on the build, the pride of designing, planning and completing a professional build. The satisfaction is priceless. Now get some drop down tarps and enclose it.
The "project" doesn't offset the cost of the mill, it adds to it. You would not need the structure if you did not buy the sawmill. The same way you added the cost of your extension to the cost of the sawmill, this protective structure is an additional cost as it is pretty much necessary to own and operate a sawmill. So the real test is whether the cost of he sawmill and the cost of the shelter, and the cost of the other shelters to store and dry your lumber, and all other costs you would not have in labor and maintenance will ever be offset by what you saved by not buying lumber. Until the price of lumber recently skyrocketed, I am not sure you could ever financially justify the cost of a sawmill for cutting softwood into dimensional lumber. However, they have always been cost effective for cutting special cuts of hardwood.
Hes just using it as a general gage for how to figure out cost effectiveness, he wasnt saying thats how he did it.... and yeah unless you have access to lots of free raw timber and build a ton it wont be worth it
Last week I put a deposit on a sawmill. I have two major projects planned, and with the ridiculous increase in prices last year, my lumber costs exceed the cost of the mill. So, my logic was I could buy the lumber for the projects, and then when I am done, if I need more lumber I will have to buy that too... or, I could buy the mill, mill all the lumber, and then I still have the mill for all future lumber needs. And I can even expand it into a small side business at a later date.
I was thinking to solve your weather proofing question you could consider buying a couple billboard vinyl tarps. Very thick and have a continuous loop on the ends. You could slide fence post pipe through one length and mount that pipe up high, just under the overhang on the fascia board. The other length could also have a pipe run through it and it would be tied down or secured when the mill is not being used. With elbow connections on either end the vinyl tarp could be raised as an awning with 2 more fence pipes inserted into those elbows and then into a socket somewhere along the side posts of the structure. Make 4 of these for each side of the structure and it's tarped in when your not using it and it gives even more weather protection when up when you are milling. Just a thought...
I am in the same boat where I have lots of dead burned trees on our 2.5 acres and we have to build everything including road etc It will cost me about 7k (I am in bc) to buy a local new lumber mill and when I compare the material specially wood required to build a house/cabin to live in , goat barn sheds for tools and garage etc I am convinced that buying a mill be better option only factor is time to do all the milling and where I put my labour cost into factor and realize that it’s still a better option to buy the mill as I can mill all my lumber during winter months in northern bc where I have nothing better to do Once done with projects then I can either sell the mill or do some custom work for others You have good content in your videos and very well presented I am convinced that your channel will grow faster than you can mill the lumber
I appreciate the feedback about my channel growing. Good to hear from folks like yourself. I think I agree about the sawing your lumber for building purposes. If you need to I can imagine that selling your sawmill down the road wouldn't be too difficult. Hope the sawing goes well for ya when the time comes. All the best
I'm in the process of building a sawmill shelter that is coincidentally similar to yours. I'm also in Ontario, but not seeing that white stuff yet. Found your channel after I designed mine and thought - yeah - that one... I like your second pitch on the roof extension - I'll most likely add that to mine now. Great job by the way. Like you - I want mine as open as possible for good weather, and as closed in as possible for bad weather. My home built mill is a trailer, so my floor is simply dirt at grade level for driving in and out. The way I've chosen to close it in is as follows (for clarity, I'll call the head of your mill North, and the tail of your mill South) - North: Full open span with roll up tarp door. For me, this is the door that the mill will roll in and out of as needed. - East: (Rear wall) 3 equal spans. The two end spans are closed in with board and batten siding. The middle span is covered with two barn doors that roll open on tracks. For me, this opening on the rear will be for ejecting waste material into stands for the cutoffs and slabs. - South: Full open span with swing out doors (may change to roll up tarp). I will use this door to either a) pull finished material off the mill and onto my trailer, b) attach a bed extension, c) drag longer logs in lengthwise on the mill, etc. - West: The long open span will be closed in with a roll up tarp door. The shorter span will be closed in with board and batten siding and will have a man door for going in and out when everything else is closed up. Having some fully closed in wall sections gives some great tool storage locations. Shelves and hooks for blades, tools, spare parts, etc.
It is easy to estimate this initial costs if you take a day and think. What is hard is long term profitability and competition with big industrial mills. I could not see ever making any measurable profit from it, especially once lumber prices would stabilize and continue at usual pace. I would think you are making more money from your YouYube channel showing how you cut the lumber, than from cutting lumber itself. Kudos for that!
I ordered a sawmill which I'm waiting for. I have a good amount of trees. First project planned is to cut logs into 4" thick planks 12- 16" wide to build a super sturdy floor, setting on top of cinder blocks in my back yard, to work on my Ford 350. Your not going to find this kind of lumber a Home Depot. May even build a tarp roof on it, the best thing, property taxes won't go up.
You need a lumber source that is reliable/own land with a substantial amount of timber to warrant this being viable and you sure do need a method to get your lumber to the milling site....a grappler /tractor. That is a lot more money...I would love to do this as I have the first part covered...by the time I get the tractor and the mill....I'll have to do a whole lot of cutting to make it to a break even...with age and wearing out body parts....I think I should have been at this 10 years ago.....I don't know....looks very enticing though as I see the trees here fall and always think...wow that it such a waste!
Love the breakdown and truth about buying a sawmill. We just bought a Norwood with the log planer kit time to start building our cabin. Keep the videos coming.
Hey Sandy. While I love watching and your analysis, I can’t help but see a “flaw” in the logic. Discussing how much you “saved” building a saw mill shed seems pretty backward. As I consider my own sawmill purchase, I include the cost of building the shed as part of the cost of having the mill. So I’d be adding the mill, the roofing, the fasteners, the fuel, etc. then comparing that to the eventual savings vs. buying lumber for other projects. Anyway, just my thoughts. I’d certainly like to pitch the idea the way you present it to the “minister of finance” but I think she’d quickly point out my “error”. 😂 Keep up the great videos! 👍
Walls should come down lower to keep out wind and snow Build a set of bunks level with the mill and eliminate machine loading clearances just roll a log from the bunk onto the mill with a peavy Deployable curtains on certain walls would also help The bunks are key for safety and less wear and tear. Fill the bunk in the morning and saw all day without starting the machine a dozen times Drying shed/ kiln should be directly at the tail of the mill for efficiency Good breakdown and video quality
I like the roll up tarp idea as a stop gap , we built a barn over grandfathers mill when I was in HS , It was a grand family project and very educational for all the cousins .
I have one of those on my camper from 1976. I also install them on homes. That's called a "roll-out awning". I'm pretty sure Pharoh and Julias Ceasar had them, too.
Having the tools does cost more up front but it's nice to have the tools to cut wood when you want, how you want and what you want. You can also factor in when milling your own lumber you also get some firewood, mulch and a lot of variety cuts like slabs, cookies, cutting boards and scraps to make what ever you can imagine.
There is another way to look at the sawmill cost if you were to build your own instead of buying one from a ready-made. I have figured that building one myself costs about 30-40% of the ready-made ones from Woodland Mills, Hud-son, etc. For example, a used welding machine (arc or mig) can be had for not a whole lot. I'm going to cheat a little and buy the sawmill "head" from someone in Oregon, but at least it'll still be 1/3 the price of the 36" ready-made ones.
First of all I really enjoy your videos especially since I moved from Toronto and now live in Israel. It is against the law to even cut down a tree here. That said I really think that you get a tremendous satisfaction about building something. It's really hard to put $ on it because it is not the same quality but that rustic look is great. You mentioned the pressure treatment of lumber ..curious to know what is going to happen with the wood that is closest to the ground. Will it need to be treated in a few years? Also I saw other videos on sawyers and many seem to make deals with people that have trees that the mill doesn't want and they don't want to go to waste. I know you mentioned that harvesting the trees was the most time consuming part of the milling. Just curious on two subjects. What're is this mill located in proximity to your house? It looks like it is built in the middle of nowhere but I am sure that is not the case. I also had another question on your blade sharpening. How many times can you actually sharpen a blade ...until it breaks? I also did see videos of people brazing broken saw blades. Have you tried this? It looks quite simple ..just a propane torch. Anyway I subscribed to.your channel. Regards marvin
The mill is pretty far back in the bush from anything including roads so that makes it a bit difficult to get logs to from anywhere other than the forest. In terms of blade sharpening I just started sharpening my blades a little less than a year ago so I actually haven’t found out yet how many sharpens I can do but it seems like a lot. Thanks for checking out the video and take care
@@sawingwithsandy thank you sandy. I will continue watching the videos. Just curious if you have seen any of the videos of people brazing bandsaw blades when they break. I know you mentioned yesterday in your video that the teeth sometimes get knocked off - nails likely and that's why you get imperfections in your cuts. Thank for the reply.
The big beams are often LVL's or glue lams, and yes they are expensive. Where I am at is close to the city, but I do live out in the country. I have built horse barns (stick frame) and drive sheds (pole barns), and almost everything is permitted, so I need to use stamped lumber. I have built custom homes as well, and I need to get along with the building departments. If you decide to build without a permit (say you are in an unregulated township) you still have got to build it right (OBC code does not allow for exemptions even in unregulated townships, even if there are no inspectors or building department). So if it is built right and meets code, you should be good. If you are using rough cut or green lumber, (I have built a timber frame home) engineers oversize the lumber significantly. This would be my recommendation, over build with proper load bearing characteristics, pay close attention to the foundation, whether it is continuous or interrupted. And keep in mind rot, that is a big downfall of some home made projects, rot can significantly weaken your structure within 20 years, so keep your wood high and dry. Just a few words that might help, from a worn out framer who had lots of adventures, what is the biblical term for a guy like me... Oh ya, cripple! love your channel Sandy!
i just ordered the woodland mills HM126. i didnt even run the numbers on the savings because i know it will pay for itself quickly from hunting shacks to out buildings to the cabin and bunk house. like you said, the thought of your own hands making it is what drove me to the purchase. the fact i just looked up a 6x6 16 foot long timber was going to run $102 us dollars was shocking!
I paid $40.57 US for two 2x6x12 treated boards at Home Depot last week. That saw mill was free compared to lumber prices today. I noticed junkie OSB was $39.94 a sheet. I paid less than $7 for some 3 years ago....
I’ve considered it but decided I like having the open air feeling soon can see everything around me and makes cleaning out the dust and loading/unloading logs a bit easier. I’ve got roll down tarps in pace currently To keep out the weather. Maybe down the road I may decide enclosing it is nicer though
Great video! The satisfaction to build it yoirself is priceless. At the end if you sell you sawmill you will get top $$ and super low cost building. It is impossible to find a used woodland sawmill in Ontario... and if you find one it is top $. So worst case... buy one, do your projects and sell it atfer. Thx !
there are other alternatives to trees .... for instence cascade timber corperation here issues fire wood cutting permits and in the firewood cutting areas we are permitted to take logs for personal use including milling lumber ...but you have to make sure you know what trees you can take ...never any standing ones...only dead ones on the ground
Sandy we love your vids and the buildings. Great info. Thanks for your time! 🇺🇸🇨🇦! We bought ours and setting it up now. Hope to cut this weekend. Thanks for your help!
This is assuming you get the trees for free. Also, if you have the trees on your land, you can sell the trees to a logger and use that money to buy the lumber. I've done that breakdown and it becomes far less obvious, especially considering the time commitment. The other factor is a method of retrieving the logs. What is the cost of falling and hauling the logs to your mill without getting them all dirty?
Hello from Tennessee, great videos Sandy . You have true 2x4 ,2x8 and 2x10 not what they call 2x4,2x8 and 2x10 at Lowe's. Hard to find Straight lumber at lowes!
Great, but that would be interesting to know, how much it would cost if you already own the sawmill. I mean paying only for the fuel, grease, nails, brackets, etc. THANKS for a great effort ⭐️ ⭐️ ⭐️ ⭐️ ⭐️
when you factor in the harvesting of the logs,cost of transportation of logs to mill etc,and all that's involved just to get in the stand,can be a huge cost, and your time, that needs be factored into owning a saw mill
Nice breakdown Sandy. I take it you’ve viewed Smoky Mountain Outpost’s sawmill by now, a very similar structure. I’m sure you will finish up in stellar craftsmanship.
Hi Sandy i got my 0s 23 going its on the back patio under cover first log horse apple next red ceder next sycamore im not in the country cant wait to get the next log . Ho for your shed hang some tarps or some plastic all the best to you and yours from John in Texas
I spend $8 for the ingredients to make a PB&J sammich. The second costs $4. The third about $2.60 When I run out of bread, I don't buy new peanut butter or jelly. Just new bread. By the time I'm done, each sammich costs about a dime. Buying a mill is about the long game. Maybe renting one is a better option for a small project like this. Same thing here.
Granted this year lumber prices are an anomaly due to the global pandemic. If you could have found 2019 prices for lumber, it would have been a more realistic price. I think it is a given if you have a wood lot, the one time costs for the sawmill, chainsaw and tools that it won't take long for the capital costs for the equipment to pay for themselves and then profit in savings over future projects.
It would be nice to know what the cost of the project would be with a sawmill that is already paid off. Just the cost of the lumber minus the cost of the sawmill initial purchase.
if you have the time, we have the beer. :D sandy, don't forget, you have to have the TREES. many people don't have a standing forest. even if you have a standing forest, that tree has a cost.
Unfortunately, there are hardly any trees left in Nova Scotia and milling 4" toothpicks isn't worth it. Furthermore, the government (industry) has managed to make using most of your own lumber illegal here! Therefore, it doesn't make sense financially for most people I think. It can also be very time consuming, quite dangerous and hard work. Imagine you are an electrician making 70$/h, you are better off just buying the cheap lumber. However, I love the woods, milling, woodworking.. For me it is a great hobby (fresh air, exercise,..) and I hope I can keep doing it for a long time. Ok, have to go and put some wood in the stove :-) Cheers
@@sawingwithsandy Yes, if you have sawdust running through your veins then you just have to do it :-) I currently have a logosol chainsaw mill to play with. The quality is excellent and even the speed with a strong saw in softwood is pretty impressive if you cut it to 2" (I then resaw on my shop bandsaw to 1" boards). Enjoy and all the best
Very interesting discussion, but I see some problems in your cost assessment. For instance, your ridge pole, which was a high-priced item, but it is pretty much unneeded. No great strength is needed in the ridge, which bears little weight. Indeed, some framing techniques have no ridge pole; opposing rafters are merely pinned together in pairs. In other framing systems the ridge pole is a light-weight piece, say a two by six, or even a one by six. Also, since your posts are not treated against rot, they will have to be replaced relatively soon, so that should be figured into the cost.
Good information. Question.....The wood you built your shed with. How long did you dry it out before you started building it and did you treat the wood with anything.
For some reason, I thought this was going to be about the savings or loss on the making of the lumber which would be the depreciation portion of the sawmill, chainsaw, etc, plus cost of gas, oil, etc. In any event, the cost of the building would be everything plus depreciation of sawmill, chainsaw, etc, not their total cost.
I made a video about two months ago or so about “the real cost” of sawing lumber. That video is likely more along the lines of what you’re talking about. Thanks for checking out this video. Happy sawing
Good video, but I would consider the saw mill as investment, and the lumber you made from trees you already own as return on investment. Personally I wouldn't have factored in the cost of the mill into the cost of the structure. If you built a house with the mill later you wouldn't as the cost of the mill (again) into the cost of the construction, or again for the next build. Once I've milled enough lumber that reaches the equivalent cost of the mill, your investment has paid for itself and all the lumber afterwards becomes profit. imo. :)
What kind of wood are those woods around you? Doug fir? It looks purposely planted Nice and straight and uniform. Also, did you dry your lumber before building?
The height was necessary to give me the roof slope to shed heavy snow and the beam height I wanted at the back of the mill. Check out the complete build for the finished product. Thanks for watching
I am in canada I want to build cabin 14x26 What is your advice buy the wood or the sawmill. I have wood land in Nova Scotia the trees I have not that big around 4 to 6 inches also I need garage in the future.
I start using it immediately unless it’s for interior work or furniture at which time I’d try to air dry it for atleast a year and use a kiln if possible
It’s hard for me to estima he since I milked the wood over the course of a few months. If in had all the logs ready and just milled I bet I could mill that wood in a week or so
