"By 2025 all manufactures should be making 350's" Ryan Hughes explains his position on modern 450's 

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The old guys still remember the 125/250 two stroke days. It really was better back then.

It's a lot more fun to go fast on a slow bike than to go slow on a fast bike!

Me trying to fit in to the conversation: The LCQ should be a full-contact pit bike race

I rode the 450 in the A class until I was 50. That was almost 10 years ago. Ryno is correct... most guys should NEVER have a 450. I saw a lot of weekend warriors die, or end up paralyzed. It was heartbreaking. The average person has no business on a blown-out 450cc dirt bike. I salute Ryno for telling it like it is.

I rode a couple early 2000s 450s, and one thing I liked a lot is that they go through heavy sand and mud like it's absolutely nothing. They definitely require a good level of throttle control, but they will go through anything and clear any jump imaginable. They are heavier though, so you gotta be careful there aswell. If you have experience and self control, it will be survivable and maybe fun depending on where you're riding. At least that's my take personally.

Your exactly right. Racing was way more fun to watch when it was 2 strokes. The English you had to put on the bike to get it over a jump, that was the most exciting part to me.

"The 450 has outgrown the stadium".....Word!

185 lbs, 57 years old and ridden motorcycles for 50 years of em, LOVE my FE 350... and favorite all time bike? My old 200 EXC

This hits home so much. A mate of mine had not ridden in years and got a ktm450exc. I warned him not to, and told him to get a 250. He whisky throttled in the enduro and hit a tree head on. Died.

My favorite bike is the KDX 200 2 stroke. Plenty of power for my environment and 2 stoke is just sick. It’s an all around fun bike even if it’s not the fastest

I’d buy a Yammy YZ350f tomorrow if they had one

seeing those 450 on the straights in atlanta was absolutely nuts, these guys are hitting 50-60mph and then hitting a 180 bowl turn in 2 seconds, it looks like they're riding a bull

If people like this carry on 450s will be in the history books like the 500 2 strokes adapt the tracks and stadiums for the bikes

I respect your knowledge ryno. I love the 250F but it doesn’t last. I can’t afford to put a new top end in every 6 months. I have settled on a buying stock 450 every 4 years and never touching it other than fluid changes. With the custom tuning technology available now you can mellow the power out and make it linear and not overwhelming. If I was rich I would rip a 250f to shreds but I just can’t afford to rebuild my motor twice a year.

So true, I briefly owned a ktm 450exc and sold it for this exact reason. Riding it on the street was about keeping the front end down below 60mph, keeping it from death wobbling above 70mph, and valve adjustments any other time lol. I don't understand why supermoto 450s are popular beyond the power being ludicris.

Ken Roczen’s crash, he had some much torque drive and compression that it just slung him into outer space. They are crazy powerful But you can never have enough power lol

If Yamaha makes a 350 I’m ALL OVER that bike

I've had a ton of different bikes, one of my favourites was my crf 250 with a 280 bb kit. The bike was light, flickable, and that extra little bit of CC gave it the perfect grunt. Could ride it all day and not get tired.

The 450 being “to big” for the stadiums actually makes allot of sense too. Paired with the advancements in bike tech vs the riders keeping up he makes some valid points. Id probably hop on a buddies 450 and just ride it around the track once or twice rolling stuff instead of jumping since its to much power for me

I’ve always love Ryan! He was a top 3 favorite when I was growing up. Such a smart, genuine human being

Hell yea Rino, 350’s and 2 strokes.

Holy shit, this guy has the greatest understanding of the mechanics of dirtbikes. He verbalizes it all so well. I can only afford 1 bike that has to do dunes, highways, singletrack, moto, and so on, so I got a WR450. Fucking terrifying and dangerous on motocross, I should be on a 125 at my skill set.

Yep I rode a friends 2022 450r a couple months ago. Did 2 11 o'clock wheelies, immediately gave the bike back. I then bought a xr600r. Much better power delivery...usable.

Eli Tomac was on Whiskey Throttle a few years ago while still at Kawi and said mostly the same thing as Ryno about the 450....he said he did not really know why "we" are racing 450s in stadiums. That is coming from a badass superstar.

Ryno is the high priest of the moto church. his sermons are life changing. manufacturers should be listening. to be honest, there's nothing more fun than banging bars with a bunch of buddies on 110's. I can't believe Gasgas hasn't come out with an adult "pitbike". you can wring them out and not be scared to death. when im on a 450 it's fear adrenaline instead of fun adrenaline.

Iv been racing MX since I was 12years old in the 80s ,my first CR80R was new ,my Dad was a service tech at Bill Russell Honda Dealer ship ,the guy the sponserecd got a new CR125R and i got his 2 year old 1984 CR125R for a deal,and i worked Saturdays and Thursday and Friday nights,sweeping floors,empting bins making coffees and cups of tea for the staff as part of the deal ,Did good middle of the pack am class ,did a few hares crambles and open track enduro races in the forests and a couple of Nationals,then got a 1989 CR250R and shit got serious did a few seasons ,then just free rode and gave up racing ,I rode a couple of 250 lites bikes and a few 450s man them 250s are so sweet to ride and fun and just about have that 250 2 stroke feel,Im 6 ft 89 kg trim and i like to ride bikes not bikes riding me so a 450 is outa my pay grade and outa my fun level and outa my life iv got a 2019 YZF250 f and a 2021 YZ250R 2 stroke and i smoke my mates on there 450s on any track any weather on either of my bikes ,my ego is fine i dont need to compensate with a 450 lol

I totally agree! I am an army veteran, and I used to ride an XR100 and an old yamaha IT 175 two-stroke when I was younger, I just recently got back into it, and there was literally no bike that's built for someone my size, I'm 6'3" 235lbs so too big for the CRF250F's but I definitely don't need to hop on a 450 after I haven't ridden in over 10 years. My only option or what I felt was my best option was the KLX300R, and I dig it! It's a little plush, but a lot better than a 250f or 230. I wish more manufacturers would make 300s or 350s. Hopefully, they're listening to stuff like this. They gotta remember that not everyone is 5'10", 165lbs of solid muscle and expert riders. These 450s will kill you if you don't know what you're doing.

Only 1 problem... For cheap ass riders like me who always look for cheap used bikes you can't buy a 250 that does not state "engine just rebuilt"... With a 450 I ride it all day long for ages and don't even need to touch the engine since I can barely stretch it... Yeah I'm slow :)

I saw the fastest racer in my area get hurt when his 450 flew too far onto an upslope and then bounced 15-20' straight up into the air. When he came down his mid section landed right on the bars. He was winning, then had to take the ambulance. The old MX tracks are too small for the modern 450s.

i love my 450, i just love that crazy power.

I had a wr450 that was overpowered for the woods trails, but on the street with a supermoto setup, i was able to bar it plenty and wanted more power at times.

I wish this guest was on every other week, I want to hear him do rants on everything. One of the best rants on motorcycles in the history of motorcycles. Just amazing. Almost like a legendary speech, this video clip should be in a museum! Caveat: The last part about the 500 two strokes didn't quite make sense. I think the reason the 500 two strokes worked is because people were insane, first and foremost, and also because all racing was too fast before they restricted it. In every form of racing, it peaked in the 1980's, and had to be restricted, and they are still restricting classes today, like in drag racing the allow Harley engines to be much larger for the motorcycle class, but limit the 4 cylinders. They blocked 2 strokes in "Moto-GP" road racing completely in the 1990's. In the past, the riders were not nearly as sophisticated and the sport wasn't as developed and they were in an experimental phase with the 500 2 strokes, because they weren't really even around that long, only about 15 years in their peak, before being switched to 250 class. It's time to reduce 450's to 250's. No need for a 350. A 350 is still too big. Make the riders have to actually use the engine, and it would be far more exciting.

I’m 180lbs 5’11….I have a 2020 yzf450f and I love it! I ride it on tight trails too. It is a bit tiring though lol

I've raced motocross my whole life. 65cc 85cc 125cc two stroke in the beginning then 250f in the B class & then a 450f & i will tell you the most fun i had was 125cc racing. There was nothing like it but as i got better i found that lining up with 250f it was a joke trying to holeshot on a stock 125 with a FMF pipe against 25 other 250f riders on the gate. After i stopped racing i got rid of my 450f & got a Husqvarna 350f. The 350f in my personal experiences is the best if both worlds. You ride the 350f like a 250f meaning it likes to be revved BUT it has the torque ti be lugged around similar to a 450f. I think that 450s are too much bike for anyone. The 250f is almost perfect but the 350f is perfect especially for the premier class. If the AMA made 350cc the limit you'd see manufacture's and riders do amazing things in the premier class.

Very keen. You could apply this to Big Adventure bikes just the same. How on Earth manufacturers think 900 or 1250 cc's is a good thing for riding in the dirt, well of course they Tamp things down with traction control and Rider modes. Without them you would never get up a hill unless you crawled on the clutch. I ditched my big adventure bikes for that reason. Even my Dr 650 takes astute throttle control, but I'm sticking with that for that type of riding. Still I appreciate the Moto Enduro conversation here because I am trying to decide between a 350 390 or 500 beta RR for woods and xc trail riding in Virginia.

I was at Washougal about 10 years ago, watching the Medics scrape a young kid up off the track. I was standing next to a pretty fast local Pro who said the exact same thing. He said the 450’s are too fast for 90% of most riders. He said something I’ll never forget. He said it doesn’t matter if you’re a 16 year old Junior rider or Ricky Carmichael. You get off one of these bikes at 50 mph, your going to get f**cked up. That’s still true today.

The exact reason I stick to 250f's or 250 2 strokes

I agree as well. Thays why I just found that same bike I had when I was 12. Its a vintage suzuki 78 ds 185. at that time it was all about topping your buddies to climb the biggest hill. Now I'm older I'm going to just put around. Still smiling all the way no matter the speed. Plus it has a huge seat cushion these new bikes have very small seats and no comfort. Stand 80 ride 20

I am 26 and I have a RM85 big wheel and it's plenty fast for dirt, I am making it into a supermoto right now so I can shred go kart tracks too. The 4 stroke 250 and 450 bikes have to be rebuilt just as much as any 2 stroke with valve adjustments, top ends, etc. You can fly on a 125 2 stroke or 250 4 stroke with littke effort

His face when you braught up the 500 🤙🏻

Raced from 80 to 125 2 stroke,to 250 4stroke and then on 450 and the shock I got was insane.3 months after I got it I crashed on cross country track with 4 gear full open,if not having alpinestars carbon neckbrace,my spine would be broken.Instead of my spine where neckbrace ends my collarbone broke on 2 places.i had few bad crashes,specially one on 80 on jump where I f up my knee and one on 125...but this crash is only crash that 11 years after it happend when I think about it,I have it in head like video and I get chills.Scares me to this day. Just thinking about buying enduro,because I didn’t race for 5-6 years and is grabbing me again,but I’m getting exc 300 2 stroke,not 450.There is a diference when you try to control 2 or 4 stroke.

I tell my young nephew alllll the time you HaVE to go slow before you can go fast this vid was spot on👍

So what you're saying is the new 450's are a great sand dune toy!

I’m on a new GasGas 250 at 215lbs and I love it !!!!

100% that is why for the longest time I dreamed of only having some kind of KTM or Husqvarna 350 because that’s all the power you actually need.. most people will never use that the potential of your average 450 of today. I don’t have the money for a KTM’s so I just went out and bought a new Rmz 450 and I kind of love. It doesn’t have that continued arm pulling power into the upper your RPMs where you can really get into trouble. Sole have said the peak power is about the same as the 350cc bikes and I can say that’s exactly how it feels, it makes you have to work and keep momentum in the corners…. That’s why you see many 250 guys smoking most the 450 class… they leave to learn how to build speed and keep it for many obstacles

I love my 2017 husky 450. I even have a modified ecu and suspension that make it faster. You definitely should not ride one when beginning but I do think their great.

I enjoy the fact he brought up “450 are too fast for the stadiums” ITS TRUE. the pro guys are so close the racing part is so boring cuz everyone is so damn close

These things have gotten crazy powerful with technology over the years. I remember riding a 440 for the first time in the early 2000s(probably only 40-45 hp) and being impressed and knowing I needed to respect the power it made. Now that ain't shit. Raced a 450r for years that might have made 48-52 hp and I had a good bit done to it, where now that's baseline for a stock 350. The technology that's used to make the big power now has changed everything dramatically. I'm not a fan of it. The modern four stroke is just like the late 90s 250s, high strung made for peak HP. The two stroke is now the mellow, torquey motor that's reliable and easy to take care of. Never thought I'd see the day lol

I'm that guy he's talking about I haven't raised in years I started back 2 years ago after about 12 years off on a kx450f and it really wasn't that much fun without bought me a Husqvarna 350 2 weeks ago 2022 can't really write it at the track yet because I had shoulder surgery but I have ridden around the yard and I feel I'm going to love that thing it's going to make riding fun again

The worst are the newbee's that buy 450's just to ride mountain single track. They're sweating bullets just to get to the trail head.

I'm not a Pro rider but I do ok. I went from a 2015 WR450 to a 2021, the difference in power was next level, it's intimidating, its so snappy and explosively powerful and until I warm up its not fun at all. Once I'm on my game it's awesome but it's too much most of the time so I agree with everything said here.

I completely agree, but with road bikes included. Most of the best memories are of mine are on 350-500cc 2 strokes. I still ride a Banshee, 83' Yam TT 600, and Duc 851 and was looking at a new Beta over a Yam 450. I came home and rode the TT and had to question why I was going to drain the bank account for a new bike. I think it was the tech aspect of the injected 2 stroke maybe. But once I got rolling on the TT I forgot all about those new bikes. That old thumper is a time machine and I had the biggest grin a 15 year could have again. Even if I am 50. Ride on brothers and sisters!!

Ryno is right on. If the best have to battle the bike, especially late in races when you will be tired, what does that tell you? Would love to see the factory’s put all the technology into a 350 that they stuff in to a 450.

I don't get why people think bikes are so different. Yeah they are easier to ride but significantly more complicated and expensive. How much have lap times improved? 1986 CR500/491cc 65hp/53lb @ 238lbs $7,500 (was $2,700) $116 per hp 2023 CRF450cc 57hp/35lb @ 245lbs $10,000 $175 per hp

It is interesting to watch the 450 AMA Pro Flatttack series on tv. One guy had a hand off the bars on his 450 making the slapping the horse behind motion saying he wanted to go faster. The 450 class there is the “small” bore class. The 750cc twin class is the top class. I can’t even imagine what one of those beasts is like.

I love my 2-stroke KDX 220. Just powerful enough to scare my old ass when I get a bit too brave on the trail.

I grew up in highschool riding xr 500 with respect! after highschool went to a cr 250 I am 6'4 250 most fun I ever had was the 250

Honda needs a 350… I NEED that

2stroke is still my goto for fun riding and teaching riding

What do you think of the 2022 KTM 511 cc bike that came from the factory with what I thought was supposed to be like 69 horsepower

hurt myself one too many times on my wr450. just sold it i’ll be getting a 350 or 250 two stroke next.

I ride a KTM 250sx. I tried riding my buddies rm450. RIding the rm450 was like trying to negotiate a aircraft carrier around the track. It was heavy as hell. Landed like a Sherman tank on table tops.

Walked into the dealer a couple days ago, walked past all the big bad bikes down to the end, sat on a 125 trail bike that's made for kids, I bought that. Now I'm 200 lbs so I ordered stiffer springs, but when I ride my little track I built in my own yard I have a blast, I don't get hurt, and I can let almost anyone ride it or learn on it. If I never hit another gap jump in my life that is just fine.

Race 2-Strokes again at the pro levels.

So if I’ve only ever ridden Honda 90’s and 50’s my whole life(I’m 27) and I just got a 97 cr250 how does this compare to what he’s saying?

Remember Doug Henry’s mistake when he jumped all the way to flat ground, that hurt . He was just about falling off the back of the bike before it launched so he was Just trying to hang on which kept the throttle opened . It can happen to any one at any time. I owned a KX 420 I got out of a rut which had me on a much steeper angle & the bike not deceived me I was in a gear higher than iThought going faster than I thought, which put me way past what the suspension could handle. Yes it hurt. The thing is today most of the bikes produced are capable of doing the same. So why not keep it fun for everyone do keep the all of the classes but have the tracks designed to keep the riders safe yet keep the racking closer. Yes some final gear ratios counter shat sprocket/rear sprocket, could be allowed to even up riders that might be heavier than another, or just to give a bike that could use one more tooth on it to put it in the same performance area as a competitor’s bike. PEOPLE NEED TO LIMIT CERTAIN THINGS. ANYTHING THAT CAN KEEP THE RACING CLOSER = BETTER ENTERTAINMENT, AND ANYTHING THAT CAN HELP KEEP A RACER SAFE WILL INCREASE HIS OR HER LONGEVITY IN THE SPORTS OF MOTORCYCLE RACING. BETTER FOR THE RACER BETTER FOR THE FAN, BETTER FOR INDUSTRY …

350 class is the best thing ive ever heard

can most of us handle a 450? not really BUT having too much is just more fun 💀

I ride a KX450F. It is scary to jump. Seriously thinking about trading down for a 250 4 stroke.

dude i want a 350 so bad. At the moment I have a crf300l (super reliable and low power) and it just makes me dream of a true 350 dirtbike. I weight 150 and ridden 450s a few times and no bueno. I cant use them all the way, i mean im not very good either. I like them in the dunes though, thats probably the only time i felt like i really had fun on a 450.

Wow finally said. Thx Ryan. Well said and sold. You are RT

A friend of mine was considering buying his 15-year-old 135lb son a new 2021 KX450f. I told him it was going to be a major mistake, the son felt confident because he had been riding a clapped-out 2005 450f. After further consideration, he got him the 2021 KX250f, but the boy was disappointed until he rode it. They both realized the 2021 KX250f was all the bike the kid needed and then some. I told him that his son will never ride that bike to its full potential, he is not a pro and never will be. I ride a 450X in the desert and it, at many times, is too much bike. You don't even realize how fast you are going until you go to grab another gear and it isn't there, you are pegged wide open in 5th. I don't know how fast that is but I am guessing it's over 80mph. Been riding for many years and think its time to go back to the 250x, this helped me make my decision, I just felt it was the cool thing to have vs what made the most sense.

The solution is obvious, bring back 2 smokers! But we all know California/EPA wouldn't allow it.

When i got my 450 i fell in love. Most tracks i never leave second gear. I thought it was easier to ride. A burp of throttle you can get over just about anything. But.... My rm 250 peg it and lets get rowdy.

I still ride my trusty 1994 CR 250 two stroke! I’ve owned it for 28 years and

I have yz426f and cr250 experience the weight and power of the 250 is where it’s at.

Modern 450s should have ride modes to de tune them down or should be possible given the fuel injectors and electronic ignition.

I started racing on a 125. Our club went by skill levels as opposed to motor displacement so it was an open class. I could beat "some" guys on 500's. Though there was some sand and hills and the 125 was like bringing a knife to a gun fight too many times, also those tiny motors burnt out too easy. I switched to 250 2 stroke for my next several bikes. Someone lent me a 250F to try and I thought this has no power. I was not beating it too hard as it was not my bike. Then I raced it and in the heat of battle realized if you ride a 250F like a 125 she goes pretty good. So I switched to a 350sxf and liked it. Followed that up with a YZ450F. I was happy with the 350 but new bikes look nice and shiny and on an impulse bought. I had briefly ridden other peoples 500 2 strokes and was wowed. I thought I was pretty good because I rode a 250 2 stroke without fear. Admittedly the first time I raced my 450 it scared me I was just hanging on. Eventually I grew to like the power. I also used it to ride the woods but it was too damn big and heavy. I was falling at low speeds every ride. I am short and the YZ450 is like a Clydesdale. So I bought a 200 XCW for the woods. On the track I was okay with the 450. Until this year I got hurt bad and not sure I will ever be fit to ride again, at least on a motocross track. I am older and only expected to race another 5 years or so anyway. hard to say but if I had stayed on the 350 I might not be hurt now, still in physio and just getting back to work after missing 5 months.

I agree, but what about Hattah, Finke, Dakar etc. The 450 has its place, maybe just not in stadium x.

I just got a 2023 KTM450 SX F. Really strong bike. The strongest bike I’ve ever owned. I’ve only owned 450’s because they seem to last longer than 250’s. It’s much better for the pocket for me. I do have fun but it only I could afford replacing parts for the 250 I’m sure I’d be better off. 😏

How for a huge guy? I am 265 lbs at 6'7. ( will lose a ton of muscle if i try to go much under 250lbs.) Currently riding a old kx250 2 smoker, but I am looking at a WR450. Should I buy?

I got to ride a cr450f and it wad fun as hell

He is correct on the bikes outgrowing the stadiums. It’s all rhythmic and not about speed at all. The inside of a stadium is just to small to keep building a new track in them every week but that’s how we get fans in to see the races so what do we do? They damn sure aren’t going to the local and pro outdoor races. Not going to happen. We need to sit and think about this and figure it out

I do agree completely 450 bike is a very powerful and with explosive violent acceleration. a very serious motorcycle. when you sling a leg over it you better be serious. it literally is taming it on the track instead of full throttle no doubt. 250cc I'm full throttle as much as I want. 450s are just a bit too fast which poses a serious unnecessary risk of a down rider with a serious injury

Yep there was alot to be said for a rider cutting his teeth on the smaller 2 stroke of the day, taught you how to ride, fall off at lower speed and how to respect raw power once you made it past the 250 2 stroke., granted big bore 2 strokes would terrify you but if you made it that far you knew how to ride such power. 2 strokes are also easier to maintain and work on. I ride green lanes in the UK and my 250 2 stroke is fun to ride and that is where it's at!......... 7:37

I had no idea about this but now I do cheers❄✌

So glad I couldn’t find a 500 when I was looking and had to “settle” for my 350 that turned out to be perfect

What about now days with the Power tuner app? can you just tone down the power slightly? also i’m moving to florida and feel like i need that 450 power to pull through the sand. anyone have any feedback for me?

everybody has to make their own decisions good or bad. I think legislating controls is not good

I have been riding since 6 yrs old. I am 26. I got a 2015 rmz450 the most tame beginner 450 available. That thing had more power than i could ever use and i was SENDING IT. I’m talking 80-100 ft gaps lugging in 3rd gear 😂

Some of my friends say that they mainly use 3.gear when they ride or race. And almost every body in the oldboy class ride 450's. 350 is a blast but I'll Would chose a 250 4stroke because I'm not that skilled.

The Japanese automotive manufacturers introduced the 'gentlemens' agreement' back in 1989 which limited the horsepower to 276 hp, as they were doing the same thing for street cars: competing to make the best car, which resulted in a horse power war. As a result, people with no business being behind the wheel of cars like the Supra turbos, GTR's etc were wrecking them. Although many of the cars made a bit more than the advertised 276, it slowed down the hardware war, and encouraged innovations to making a quality car rather than a more powerful one. They no longer honor that agreement exclusively, but it shows that it has been done, and can be done in the best interests of both professionals and hobbyists.

A lot depends on the surface. Hard pack clay a small engine is better. Deep sand a big engine is better. Big engines run at low RPM will out last a small engine at high RPM. My friends told me to avoid used used 4 stroke 250's because if it was ridden hard the motor could go boom and it would cost lots to fix. I like 125's but most riders don't have the skill to ride them. Factory riders and pro riders are so much better than most of us and their bikes are better too. I rode a 1976 Yamaha OW 125 and could not believe how easy that bike was to ride. I had lots of fun that day. Lets not take the fun out of riding.

Hit the nail on the head the bikes have out grown the stadiums.. they did that re organization of racing times so they didn’t do a 450 main in 14 min but they need to just cap the bikes or something. I like that 350 idea.

this is why i love my fe390

My 92 cr500 is 65 HP and so fun to race

In mototrials we have the same issue. Modern 300cc 2 strokes are hella powerfull. I'm a good rider i will only own 250cc 2 strokes and 300 4 strokes from now on.

Agree. A 250 cc is the perfect power/torque combo so 350cc 4-stroke would match the 2-cycle.

I totally agree with this because a lot of us can jump on a 125 an go really fast still...after retiring from racing i waited 12 year to test a 4 stroke a 450 honda i was like load this sign up powerade holeshot twice what a motor...an that was just stock...please please go to a mx school...save so much time an have more fun