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Camille is actually one of the few champions where I don't mind the hourglass figure, because I feel it emphasizes her legs, which is one of her defining characteristics. Big legs => big hips. Makes perfect sense.
I feel like it has the opposite effect. Her iconic characteristic is the blades below the knees, and her massive hips actually draw attention away from them - if you aren't looking for them, most people probably wouldn't notice them if they weren't looking for it. I feel like they could have emphasized her legs in a way that draws the eyes down to the blades, rather than just blow up her hips with the excuse of "she needs all that room for her grappling spindles." If you've never questioned why Spiderman doesn't have comically oversized wrists, I doubt anyone would call it a design flaw to give her normal (or even just slightly exaggerated) hips.
@@TemmieTumpter spiderman shoots it from his wrist, meaning he can twist his hand, Camille from the hip, so it's wide for the Reeled Hookshot yo be stored with a length of wire
@@TemmieTumpter tbh, web fluid takes less space compared to metal wires. Plus I think spider man uses his own fluids along with the one in his wrist maybe
@@TemmieTumpter Imagine an athlete for sprint running, high jumping, or a marathon running, with only the muscles below the knees are buff, now that would be stupid now wouldnt it? The entire lower region from hips to the feet need to be buff if they want to be strong and fast right? So having the hips and thighs thicc and buff is important cuz thats pretty much where all the movements are required most especially for athletes like camille who focuses on the feet, how can she swing those massive leg blades if her hips and thighs are thin af?
I think what's also important is that the knife legs make her look constantly en pointe, demonstrating an obsession with elegance, grace, poise, and precision. This is paralleled by English aristocracy, which is historically obsessed with looking "prim and proper".
This is odd to me, because I read all of her lore before I ever heard her voice lines, and in my mind she seemed much more evocative of French aristocracy, and you've literally just described her in French to draw parallels to English nobility.
@@Freekymoho I would disagree. First, there's the old adage of "When you hear hooves, look for horses, not zebras" - don't look for unique and rare explanations for things that have much more likely, common explanations. Her profile has exaggerated hips in the same way that most other over-sexualized video game characters do (Widow, Symmetra, Qiyana, Kai'sa, Irelia, etc). So it seems unlikely that the design team would want to emphasize a special trait in this character by giving her an almost identical profile to every other character whose legs aren't significant to their design. But even without that, I disagree that her profile emphasizes the important parts of her design. Her most iconic feature is the fact that she exists precisely balanced on the points of blades that replace her legs below the knee, and yet her profile exaggerates her hips so excessively that it draws attention away from her iconic leg blades. And yes, you could argue that her grapple-spindled hips are the reason they're larger, but those aren't exactly her iconic feature. And I can't imagine that was genuinely the reason to give her dumptruck curves - Spiderman's character design manages to give him near-infinite grappling web without giving him comically oversized wrists, for example. Plus, the decision to place the grapple wire in her hips is itself somewhat at odds with her otherwise elegant and proper character design - I wouldn't be surprised if it was chosen there to justify the exaggerated hips, rather than the other way around.
@@TemmieTumpter that is the reason though, they've talked about it before. It's also not only her hips, her legs in general are massive and the most important part of her sillhouette, it allows you to quickly distinguish her even through skins. I dont think she looks anything like widowmaker or even league's own sexualized champs like ahri or misfortune. I personally dont consider her sexualized at all; hips dont really matter when they're made of cold steel
On one hand she's not really old and just perpetuates the same weird beauty standards present in female characters, but on the other hand she's got knife legs, and that's pretty damn cool.
@@elodin857 Maybe ‘weird’ wasn’t the best word to use. But I was talking about the same hourglass body figure overwhelmingly prominent in female champion designs as well as media everywhere. It’s ‘weird’ because it’s both not very representative of real world body types, as well as heavily lacking in variety. We also could go into how these body types are harmful to our perception of real world women, but that wasn’t what I was referring to when I said weird. So I guess it’s not ‘weird’ per se, but imo it’s weird that it’s so very common.
@@elodin857 From a business perspective, it’s probably true that this figure is the most profitable and that’s why it exists. However whether or not it’s instinctively the most attractive to the average man is debatable. For one, although possible, a body type like this with such big thighs and such a little waist is definitely uncommon, so it makes no sense for it to be the ‘instinctual’ ideal, I think. I would argue it’s much more likely that it’s the type of body that has gained traction and thus thoroughly perpetuated through media, which in turn has had real world influence over our own perceptions. My theory is even more backed up by the fact that this body type wasn’t always the ideal. In the past and in other countries the more ideal women’s body type was a bigger one, for men as well. Likely because being hefty portrayed a certain kind of prosperity which was desired back then seeing as how food was less mass produced. So to reiterate, I think that from a business perspective this body type is likely the most profitable, so I cannot blame them for making that decision on that front. However I think if blame were to be placed it is justly placed in the same media for imposing those standards in the first place.
@@catrielmarignaclionti4518 what i mean is, i think in lore they took a Teenager and did the experiments and that's who mundo is basically. But idk not shre
I don't believe Riot is physically capable of designing appealing senior champions, the only 3 that come to mind are Zilean, Corki and Heimerdinger, and they're all over a decade old
Monster champions don't count, as they could be 10 or 1000 years old and it would be senseful. Truth is, I think it's easier to make a middle-aged/old male champion than a female one.
Lissandra with her flawless, smooth skin and generally identical face to all the other generically hot League women? universe-meeps.leagueoflegends.com/v1/assets/images/dream-thief-splash.jpg
There's a difference between having lived for over 35 years (and many champions, male and female, have done that) and actually physically looking over 35.
"Whose boots are made of knives to ensure that the lower classes she steps on will die from their wounds" lol Big fan of your hot takes, always very entertaining and it is nice to hear your opinion about all champs
I think cause her hips are small it gives more hourglass shape. An example of a more clear pear shape in League would be Qiyanna. Also should have said waist instead of hips.
@thomasqwerty101 actually your shoulder width has to match your hip width to create the hour glass shape, not necessarily a big boobs. I'm flat but have hour glass measurements. Pear is basically just bottom heavy, so you're right on the pear bit 🍐
I think it would be really difficult to make an actual old lady whose doing flips and swinging around the city like Spider-Man look like a serious character.
Why not? It's a fantasy world where weirder stuff than that is depicted. The reality is that they wanted the background of an 'old lady' but the appearance of a young woman. Because youthful women tend to sell more than older women. We don't have to front. Older men sometimes make it to the spotlight, but even so, we see older men in fantasy stories way more than we see older women
Unrelated to the Camile’s fighting style but Aatrox is between 4k and 6k y.o and is flipping with his heavy ass sword just fine 😂 sure he’s alien but the mention was just for comic relief.
Camille is 100% my favorite champion in the game. To be honest, I think League has done a good job at conveying that she's an older champion despite not aging. I'm specifically referring to her design in the awaken cinematic. Looking at her concept art there, I love the strong nose, jaw, and cheekbones they gave her that really reinforces that hint of age and aristocracy. In addition, I also like how they address her hour glass figure there, where in the game her hips are extremely rounded, in the cinematic they've become much more narrow and sharper, creating an almost diamond shape. If they were to take those small changes and add that to her in game model, it would be almost perfect. Still would have been nice to see her as old old, but considering with what they had to work with, I think they did a decent job!
Is there a short story about how Jhin became a killer though? Because I don't know about him, but Camille's lore is one of the most complete ever, everything is explained and seems natural. Of course she lost her lover for technology. Of course she knows about the brackern crystals used to power the city, where I feel like Jhin's job is... Killing people in a scary way? I'd like to know what fueled his passion, the man behind the mask, because I think that so far his stories are just about his performances
Riot music team always goes hard when they get an interesting champion concept. Kindred, Jhin, Camille, Renata, Warwick. All examples of great interesting champions with banger themes
The extreme hourglass figure via massive hips in a Victorian coded character is actually fine. The way upper class Victorian woman achieved the illusion of their small waists was in large part due to padding. On a character wearing pants, which also makes sense here, it doesn't look as natural as under a skirt. But it still works.
I think Skyen refers to specifically female human (or very human-esque) characters. Rek’sai, despite being the sexiest female champion in the game, is an ancient monster and not a senior citizen. It’s kind of like how you would call Zilean an old man, but not really Aurelion Sol, even though he’s probably MUCH older.
Hey man! Just wanted to say how much I appreciate these types of vids. They're extremely interesting and allows me to truly view a character from a designers point of view. What is your opinion about Xayah and Rakan, and their general dynamic? Thanks!
It’s going in alphabetical order so it might take him awhile to get to them, but he will :> he also did a tier list stream awhile back where he reviewed every champion based on how well their designs execute their lore and concepts
I'd love to see an actual old lady as a champ in League. Whether it be a wise and powerful wildmage from the Freljord, or just a really pissed grandma as a joke character.
I know this is an old vid and many, whom I haven't yet seen in the comments, have probably said this but Camille is definitely a pear body shape. Hourglass would mean she would have a Miss Fortune sized chest to rival those hips. Also respect the A for Aristocracy rating
The thighs are absolutely enormous because of the camera angle. It's the same reason why ornn doesn't look like he had a belt, but his belt takes up like 70% of his chest, plus they made the grapple ring thingies an indicator for her Q
Video games for some reason just will not allow Women over 30 to look over 30. They either get bullshit reasons to keep young or they just cut them from the game altogether.
Though I like the idea of having an old lady character, I think it is the reason zilean is not played often or by many people. Old people simply aren't relatable -luckily Swain's personality and character design make up for that. We have yet to see it with Zilean.
Been seeing people say things like, "But the wires for the hookshot are in her thighs! Clearly that's why they're so big!" or "How else would she be able to use the momentum for the leg attacks if she wasn't flying through the air hip first?" Because we ALL KNOW that the fantasy mechanics TOTALLY came first followed by creating the thighs as storage units, lol...
Old champion will always be a stupid idea in world where you fight. Maybe for a spell caster its a good idea but any other class is mobile and has a lot of dex so Old champ would feel... Weird
When you said you wish she was an old lady character I couldn't help but imagine some 80 year old with arthritis and a walking stick zipping around the top lane with her grappling hook
For age isnt it the same as the wise war veteran for male archetypes? Cant be biologically too old or how would euther fight? Like, yeah he/she is 50, but thank to training looks more like 40 on the face with the body of a prime fit 35. Fit people I believe look younger than thei age. Often by a lot. The thights could be smaller, but a cyborg is a cyborg and who knows how much of her face is original skin?
... this is a cyborg with knife legs who swings around a steampunk magic city like Spider-Man. There is a giant cosmic space dragon who made the stars, a whole race of cryptid elf-gremlins from another dimension, and freaken Rammus. But you draw the line at "old people can't fight, that's unrealistic"?
As someone who just stimbled in your channel and watch a lot of your videos, I gotta ask why is it a negative for female characters to look attractive to the eye or have a nice figure? I've seen you take issue with it in the minitaor video and now with Camilles character. I don't see why Camile should prefferbly be an older lady or the female minotaor be as muscly as their male counterpart. They are not portraying her in a sexual manner or anything, she just has an appealing body. So why is that something that is a bad thing?
That's a bit myopic, but not a bad point. Short answer? It's not bad. Longer answer? It's okay... In a vacuum. If there was just camile or just the minotaur and not an entire cast devoid of diversity, it would be fine. But it shows a certain level of cowardice in design to make ALL of your feminine characters regardless of species have the same body type. Look at Alistair, he's halfway to quadrupedal. Why would a female of of same species have a dumptruck and titties? The answer is that designers feel pressured to cater solely to a heterosexual male gaze and they're clearly just afraid to have a female character nerds can't fap to.
It's not at all negative for female characters to be attractive, but it's extremely boring when design keep prioritizing making characters look just one way over and over and over and over and over again. Characters like Evelynn, Cassiopeia, Elise, Samira, arguably Miss Fortune, there the hotness fits the character and tells their story. Ashe, Caitlyn or Kai'sa running around with their tits out and heavy makeup on their faces? Dumb, boring, pandering bullshit.
@@joshyoung2659 I think its jumping the gun to lable the female charecters as "catering to heterosexual male gaze." Im actually not exactly sure what you even mean by that. In fact, I would think characters like Camilie would be an example of how thats not true. She professional, unique in her design and yes, a nice figure. There are plenty of other examples in kai sa, oriana, poopy, vayne and plenty of other female characters that aren't just eye candy for "nerds to fap too.". I find it kind've unfair to lable it as such as the female charecters aren't especially sexualized, aside from ahri and Evelyn of course.
@@TBSkyenShorts I can respect the need for variety and variation in charecter designs, but to call it pandering seems a bit unfair. Im fact, I would think Camille would be exactly what you'd look for in such a charecters design then. As she's not especially made in an overtly samey way i think you mean in the female charecters designs. Of course, its not unreasonable to want to see deviations from the typical hourglass female charecter type, but to say that the same design has been used over and over again isn't quite true as there are plenty of examples of branching out like Oriana or Illaoi. I would agree with you if there was a sudden explosion of bikini skins where the female charecters are half naked with their tits just hanging out, but there doesn't seem to be an over abundance of those kinds of things from what I've seen.
@@Crazieyboy15 Male Gaze (also called Gaze Theory) is a concept popularized in film theory, but has since been applied through most visual media. Essentially (at a very basic level) Gaze as a theoretical framework is just about how a character, person, or concept is depicted based on the creator's mindset and beliefs. Heterosexual Male gaze is just that. The point of view of straight men. And you give a great example of it, here. so, I'm not gonna argue at all on poppy and Vayne, there. Poppy is nonhuman and at best cute slightly beasty. Oriana is an edge case and I won't argue it's based on POV. But Kaisa is the PERECT example of this. Kaisa and kassadin are both void influenced humans, only vaguely connected to humanity and supposedly viewed like monsters. But how are they depicted? Kassadin is otherworldly and scary. Kaisa is a generically attractive, fit woman in a bodysuit. Her design aesthetic doesn't connect to her themes because the design had to be fuckable.
OK SO I'm hella late but hear me out: even though this might not even be what riot intended, the shape of Camille's legs reminds me of a pair of scissors (emphasized by her overly big thighs/booty) This could symbolically translate to Camille as the scissor that's widening the gap between the rich and the poor, between Piltover and Zhaun, you get the idea... Just my take on it :D (edit: spacing)
I would justify those legs by pointing out how she hops around the rift the whole game, then does even more crazy stuff with her legs when she uses her abilities. Both stamina and strength is required, which would've granted leaner muscles theoretically, but she's like 90% machine so I guess in this case just giant robotic thighs(?)
She wouldnt really work as an old lady, and I dont think it's fair to deduct points from her for not being so. She's fascist cyborg-batwoman before she's an old lady and her design is great
Also can you please do an in-depth video on her. I know she's not the latest and greatest but I need to hear someone I respect highlight all the wonderful character depth and missed opportunities of her character.
It just got to me just how long will I have to wait for the hot take on Poppy. I mean, I've watched your streams and videos and I know your full opinion on her, but still, me want more Poppy in my life.
I don’t always mind an hourglass figure but I mean-come ON, Riot. She doesn’t have ribs if she has a waist that small....she’d look perfectly fine with a more realistic body type....or even, just lesser the exaggeration?
To be honest, i rather enjoy her body type from a design perspective: Rather than have the typical big tiddy tiny waist thin thighs type generic fantasy babe type, she has a shape language that sets her distinctly apart from many other women in the game.
It would be probably both funny and bizzare to actually see a really old lady that has knife for legs and can use a grappling hook jumping around like in AoT to cut down her foes, soooo I guess Riot had to make her look less old. Still feels dominant with her design. Props to the lore that it gives her a pretty solid reason to her appearance. Not like other champs out there *stares at Seraphine*
I dont't think not having a older female champion is a problem honestly. There are multiple reason why: 1. Game is played by late teens or young adults mainly, they can't really relate to older champions, so there are very few old human champions at all. Ryze, swain, zilean are really the ones I can think of, most others are in their prime strenghts like darius or braum. 2. What character would you create that fits? You can't create a "granny" that does anything physical, you would never see any 50 yo women on a battlefield anytime anyplace. So we are left with ruler or magic. Swain is exatly the ruler archeotype, so it pretty much would be a very similar felling and not much new. We also have Ryze, the runic mage, who any wizard would be similar but necromancer. I could see us getting an older female necromancer, but then again it wouldn't exactly feel like just an older woman, more like magically altered and so. 3. Creating a character for the sake of representation isn't what you are looking to do in a creative team, so if the idea of an older female character isn't what fits the character, we shouldn't force it just for the sake of "we need an old woman". As you can see the 2nd and 3rd points are pretty much connected. If you already have a character created from that idea, pushing another similar champion just for representation and artifically building something that works around it isn't what any creative team should do.
I just want a cute old lady jungler who was a powerful witch and well-known cleric in her earlier years, given many suitors whom never got past 2 weeks before being left in the dust. She left Noxus after the wars degraded her mind and the bloodshed was too heavy, instead living in a soft cottage in the woods where she trained her healing magic to essentially work backwards, focusing on draining the environment (and her enemies) of its resources for further her survival. However she wont do this out of spite, anger, or evil, but a realization that all things must die, and that she too someday will give back to the earth. She could kill you in a second (mercenaries sent to kill her since she has inside info about noxus) but is genuinely more friendly to travelers.
I agree mostly but isn't illaoi old too. Like, she seems old and is around her late 50s with gp so Camille is by far not the only attempt to making an old female tho I agree, having older characters would be cool
Making her a real old lady seems out since she's half machine now plus a hextech heart I don't think her skin will stay wrinkled that way with the type of prosthetics she had. Since it will get nourishment from that hextech heart she's like iron man without a suit
I didn't know that Camille was supposed to be old until this video. I thought she was a young woman that happened to have white hair. What the fuck Riot?
Am I the only one that feels like Camile is no one? It may be due to the fact that she came out when I wasn't playing league but rly, out of all the characters I care for her the least.
I think the "chonkinnes" of her thigh is due the fact that he carries A bundle of steel wires for her grappling hook. and where else she could those wires?
Camille is not a person to kill someone poor she is basically her houses body guard in a away she only kills people that bring harm to the house honor or want to destroy it
I'd love to see your reaction to the cast of Dota characters by comparison some day. I always felt they did a much better job than League of having a diverse cast.
![Camille's design is booty before age || design hot take [CC]](/img/logo.svg){kind=logo}
