Vader has the most famous redemption arc, but I’d argue that he doesn’t really redeem himself, he just shows that there was the possibility of him being good and does one good act, and then dies. I love those kind of redemption arcs.
I agree with your take on Vader. I often argue that Vader is irredeemable despite the movie essentially trying to pitch him as 'redeemed' and a lot of audience members thinking so. Vader took part in genocide. His orders literally killed millions of people (not in the movies but still) and he is on screen murdering children. The movie essentially has Hitler being redeemed because he protects his son at the last moment. But the reality is more of what you write. Yeah he did a good last minute act to save his child and he dies because of it. It really is more Lukes push to 'find the good' in Vader that makes the movie feel like it is trying for his redemption.
That's why jojo series is satisfying for me. Author refuse to make the audience sympathize witht he villain. But still gives him a loveable charecter somehow 💀😂
My villains tend to have moments where there sympathetic or sometimes even show empathy. I do it completely randomly. My villains will often be cruel and to most people appear heartless and then randomly show sympathy.
One thing over looked is redemption through gain rather than loss. Examples being given forgiveness, finding a friend, the power they wanted turning out to be not all it seemed etc.
Real life killers / murderers close family members (Mom's especially) have a tendency to defend & / or protect the killer even when they know what that person has done. Those bonds are a powerful thing, where Moms will shield their children from arrests,or take them in once released from prison / jail for serving their sentence. Also being at the trial / court to support them & proudly pointing out to others that their son was *never Convicted* those charges w were dropped. It's a real thing & that kind of support could influence a killer to be a better person.
Villains with redemption can be so relatable and interesting to see their growth (Ex: Zuko from ALTA) but Villains without redemption can be intriguing as well as a character, they feel so devoid of humanity(Ex: Douma from Demon slayer)
I really wanted you make a video "how to write a villain with a super tragic backstory" and they eventually seek vengeance against many characters, because i want to make my protagonists, antagonists and side characters' stories positive and negative in some parts of their journey.
Stories can be shortened or lengthened. I’ve done both. For example, I once took a 100-word story and turned it into a 3000-word story. I’ve also taken a short story that was 7000+ words and pretty much cut it in half. The difference between short stories and their lengthier counterparts is one of _scope._ To put it metaphorically, short stories focus on the forest, whereas the longer a story gets, the more it focuses on the trees. That is, length exposes greater detail, but it has to be relevant detail. Length can also expose other conflicts (main or subplots) that might only be hinted at (or possibly eliminated altogether) in shorter versions. If the idea of eliminating a conflict/subplot to make a story shorter throws you into a fit of conflict yourself - how can you possibly suggest that, Gary?! o.o - the point here is changing or redirecting the focus of the story in its shorter form, and because of that change or redirection the eliminated conflict/subplot simply isn’t as necessary as it is in the longer version.
I've only discovered your channel yesterday but now I'm rewatching ALL your videos and I'm loving every single one of them so far! So happy I accidently found you through my searchings 🥳
@Hot Dog Welcome! You have just stumbled upon THE BEST writing community in all of RU-vid 😃 Abbie is an excellent coach/teacher/motivational rockstar -- get ready to learn a TON (and feel amazing about yourself in the process) 📚 !!
Thanks for the advice, Abbie. Not every villain needs to be redeemed, but it can flesh out their backstory, and make their villainous motive more understandable, a la "Joker."
The sad thing is most villain redemption arcs are very short, sometimes only one or two scenes and then they die. Zuko at least got a couple seasons in his arc. And Vegeta is arguably still on his after all these years. 😁
One of my favorite villain redemption moments is Thomas Sharps character arc in Crimson Peak. His redemption arc starts when he meets Edith, someone who saw him as an inventor, intelligent, and they have a cute meet moment. But everyone else sees him a this Prince Charming. I the movie him and his sister marry woman for there money and his sister Lucille kills them. So they start doing it with Edith, but Thomas has fallen in love with Edith. He stands up against his sister, but still doesn’t want to hurt her. He dies trying to save Edith from his crazy sister and I thought it was so cute!
One of the best redemption arcs I’ve seen had to come from the character razor on Green Lantern the animated series that continued into young justice he is really compelling and his powers feed into his redemption and I really love that about him
Abbie, you've gotta watch Avatar the Last Airbender! It has so many well written characters and one of the best redemption arcs ever written! I'd love to hear you break it down!
your lessons are a huge help to me as a write my first Story called "The Study of Love". which uses a romance to explore the crazy thing different kinds of love can "make" people do and how those can be good and bad and what the consequences are for those actions.
@@sleepygirl3463 Thanks. I'm working really hard on this along side my studies. Really loving it. It's definitely a switch from writing fan fiction what ifs. But i think I'm going to see it through.
Anyone wanting to see an amazing character arc for a villain needs to watch the Last Airbender Series. Zuko is one of my favorite fictional characters of all time for the very reasons you talk about in this video
Maybe "villains" aren't always villains but people aren't ready or open-minded enough to explore the complex nature and depth of humanity. I think people can have dark sides and it doesn't make them monsters. Duality is a beautiful thing, and the good things speak volumes about their true colors.
AND { in real life } you can heroes who are unlikeable . People can say about a " brash " hero : ~ He may have an abrasive/abrupt personality *BUT* at least he gets the job done . ♑️✍️🇦🇺🇳🇴
I'm writing a series of superhero novels, and many of my villains do end up SOMEWHAT redeemed later on. This is only because, by that time, the planet has been taken over by an insane god (Apep), and the good guys need all the help they can get. Though, the villain of my first book does genuinely feel remorse for his actions, and he does his best to atone for them. The main villain, Apep, has a sad backstory, but is ultimately irredeemable. It's his own arrogance that ends up being his downfall. Being impaled by his own spear (which has the pleasant ability to completely destroy souls to prevent any form of resurrection) might have something to do with it, too.
Two most important components of a successful redemption arc: 1. The good they do after becoming good has to be at least proportionate to the bad they've done as villains, if not eclipse it. 2. It has to come from a genuine place of wanting to change and understanding what they did was wrong. Don't get me wrong, I love a well written villain who out of self-preservation or common interests just decides to budge and stop being a threat. However, while their position of an antagonist would probably be gone, they still wouldn't be an actually good person.
No but I literally just started contemplating a spinoff about one of my more morally grey characters (definitely on the darker side) to give him a redemption arc of sorts, and now this shows up. Anything about redemption arcs is so welcomed rn 😭
7:22 One thing I find important to remember as well when figuring out how to outline: Your outline is not your final product! Make something functional but ugly in lieu of something pretty you will never finish. You don't necessarily need to spend hours organizing your notes if you already have everything you need to start writing. Of course, find what works for you, where you are on the plotter-pantser spectrum, etc., but if you're ready to start writing when your outline still looks like a mess, that's okay!
Annotate my own books??? Blasphemy! I guess one way to solve this would be to purchase the ebook and use the highlight feature, or take photos of the physical book and mark up the photos. Thanks for another great video!
I will be back after 4 days. One of the anticipated video I have been waiting for!🤩 but your change in intro is good, Abbie. And with your *new hairstyle* 😍👍
I think one of the most important aspects of redeeming a villain is to show from the get go that they have some redeeming qualities. For example, Venom from the Spider-Man comics was established with this. Even when Venom had a raging hard on for killing Spider-Man, he was adamant on not involving innocents in his feud. For most of his appearances in the comics, Venom is actually more of an anti-hero than a villain. He was only a full blown villain for five years after he was created, while the rest of his twenty years tenure in the comics has him being an anti-hero or a full blown hero, depending on the story. The moment Carnage was introduced, Venom kinda lost his supervillain nemesis status. And that happened two decades ago.
I would hazard to guess that if they are continuously changing which structure, maybe they haven't found the one that just clicks, so..yeah...I would definitely recommend they just try building their own structure or just writing the story they want to write. Structures are sometimes-helpful guidelines, not something that every story absolutely has to follow exactly 'or-else'. (And following a structure too closely can also sometimes lead to stories that feel too "formulaic" for some readers as well.) If structure isn't working, try to just think about the story itself and where you actually want it to go or not and how to get it there, and try to actually get it there by writing it. 🙂
How to write a Villain as the protagonist I am actually plotting a story with 2 perspectives but I have no idea how to write the Villain who is the main protagonist The story is about the rise and fall of a business empire
I have a suggestion! For someone who has difficulty understanding concepts without imagery, I find it benefits me when learning from these videos to have an example--made up, from movies, etc--just to get a handle of what you're teaching in comparison to what is actually supposed to happen in the writing situation Just a thought! But I know it would help me out a ton ^.^
I wasn't planning to redeem any of my villains... but really, now that I think about it, most of them are moreso anti-heroes, or just neutral antagonists and not much else... but, my most devious, cruel, and chaotic villain (I will upload an animation sometime later)... his main purpose, in a twisted way, is humbling down anyone he comes across with, and he will do so by any means necessary... I'm not sure if that's a good cause, let alone a valid reason to be the way he is, but in the end, he does try to help everyone in need.. which is very weird to think about.
Now wondering if I can have a true villain, and a 'seems bad but will come around' villain who is under their thumb? Or would that just make them not a villain? :')
I think that it would make them a victum, right? cause if they dont want to do it there has to be a reason why they are being villanous, like maybe its a scientist that knows things the villain would never understand so the villain kidnaps his wife and kids and makes the scientist create all sorts of poisons to ruin the public population, just so the wife and kids dont become another in the thousands the villain is planning on killing.
The best redemption arc I ever watch was Zuko from Atla, the better was Megatron from Transformers Lost Light. The two tried to make amends with their mistakes and face their accountability for their crimes. They really become a better person. The worst redemption arc I'd seen was that weird cat girl from She-ra, those gem people from Steven Universe and most of all, Omni-Man's from Invincible. They don't have empathy at all and their so called 'improvement' isn't all remarkable. How did they face their accountability? No answer. How do they become a better person? Forgive and move on (wait...what?) But what do I know, the writers might be crappy themselves.
I would personally say, NO, a villain redemption arc does not necessarily have to involve a loss... especially not unless a loss somehow actually makes sense for their particular character/story/journey. If some kind of loss feels natural to their particular character/story/journey, then, great; go for it! But, if not, don't try and shoehorn it in there _JUST_ because you feel like it's somehow supposed to be "mandatory" in some way or whatever or else your redemption is somehow "invalid" or something like that-the only thing that I think is necessary to really validate a redemption arc is a believable reason for their change in heart and/or a tangible positive difference from how they started out to where they end up. (But that's just me^-^)
I think how much self-awareness or introspection is too much or too little entirely depends on the individual character, and/or the individual story. Like what kind of story are you telling? And how self-aware or introspective of a person is your character? There really isn't a one-size that fits all type solution.
(ANYONE WHO READS THIS GETS A SURPRISE AT THE BOTTOM!) Hi Abbie! This is Adele. I'm on my dads account because I am only eleven and am not allowed to have one except for school, which our principal checks to make sure the only things we are doing on the accounts, is for school. But enough chit chat. Around 2018, I stumbled across a book series by an author named Shannon Messenger, writer of the "Keeper of the Lost Cities" books. I was interested in writing before seeing the book at my local Barnes & Noble and had come up with multiple ideas, so I was excited to see what this book was about. I was so inspired by the first book in the "Keeper of the Lost Cities" series that I got the next book. And the next book. I decided to write a version of it. but as the thought of publishing it became bigger, I thought it would be copying. So I made it more human-y and less magical-y. But only a few pages into this version, I hated it. (Or as you said in "Why Your First Chapter Sucks" I want to burn it, and dance on its ashes. While crying) Depressed, Half of me gave up on the idea for this story and I searched on youtube ideas for magical stories, and you where on the list. I clicked it because nothing else looked as good and it brought to the video that inspired me to try again. Now, I am recreating my story, planning out everything, taking notes five times a week, brainstorm six times a week, and write when I feel in the mood (Which is most of the time.) So I just wanted to say thanks so much for your RU-vid channel! As promised, Here's the surprise 🐶 SURPRISE 🐶 Here are some of the RU-vidr who also help me: Beautiful music ru-vid.com/show-UCr-W3LGP7ZrHc_2EdvmBNIg Yellow brick cinema ru-vid.com/show-UCvSSvGOwQEaQ2mRpMc3SeSQ HALIDONMUSIC ru-vid.com Thanks for reading this if you did, you clearly are a good reader and don't get bored, bye!
If you are a real fan of 3 Act story telling, check out the Arcane (League of Legends) series by Riot Games and Fortiche on Netflix. Masterpiece! 👌It has a great villain too. And much more!
#AskAbbie Would you be able to explain a bit about how to go about writing a tragic character? Just found this channel a few days ago after finally deciding to put this story in my head on paper and of all the videos and channels, yours is by far the most understanding, enjoyable and engaging. Thanks so much! 🙏🏼
On the one asking about outline structures, I personally disagree with Abbie's answer! I Maybe they are a pantser? Or if they are an outliner, I think they're trying to follow structures too religiously. They should ignore the outlines, have fun with it and do what they want! I don't think us writers give our instincts enough credit; we often know what the story needs intrinsically because we've consumed so many stories and absorbed the scenarios from them. Stressing about outlines and structures too much can slow you down and make your writing come across as too rigid
anybody else find it impossible to tell how old Abby is? like, she’s wise in a way that says she’s 60, but energetic and unwrinkled like she’s 20. what is going on
Hey Abbie, I hope you don't mind me asking this question again, lol! But a while back, I had commented about villains like James Moriarty (BBC Sherlock) and Heath Ledger's Joker from The Dark Knight and how they feel like compelling villains with little backstory and really no fear. They're great villains mainly b/c of how far they push their arch foes into their fears: Joker uses chaos, and Moriarty tries to tarnish Sherlock's reputation by making him to be a fraud, amongst other things he did in the later seasons. My question is, are they also compelling villains as well? Also, is there a way I can write a villain who has internal conflict but isn't a sympathetic nor goes through a redemptive arc?
Thank you for your educational videos & valuable info. Question: I want to incorporate music in my story to support the scene or as part of character development. Can I list specific songs sung by specific artists?
Hey Abbie, I just wanna know how to get better at expressing your characters feeling like their emotion and some backround info, I'm making a fanfic btw I just dont know how to express her feelings
But the thing is Why do you want your villain to have a redemption arc? I literally love flawed characters... So flawed that there is no limit to their actions... And villain must serve this purpose for me to be good... They must be bad for their character to be good ... Till the end
#AskAbbie Hi Abbie! I've been looking at your videos for a while, and i'm really struggling with one particular aspect of my story - internal conflict. It's a fanfiction where the MC read all the books that were out, then discovered they were part of the 'special people' of the book world and the stories were real (book series is Percy Jackson). She is a huge fan, but was forced to promise she wouldn't tell normal people about the book world being real and she wouldn't tell the 'special people' she's part of about the other 'special people' that exist in the books and the world, but are a different type. She knows the gods, who control her world, suck, and she knows that they're better than the alternatives (Titans, Giants & Primordials ruling), so they're stuck with the gods. So far I have her mostly dealing with general issues - getting stuff for a god, helping other kids deal with being part of the 'special' group, etc. I'm a pantser with specific scenes in mind that I am definitely am going to include, so I have a bit of a plot. As I said at the start, what are your suggestions for internal conflict? I will comment her backstory, which I wrote in full, in the comments. Thank you very much! - GG
Here's the backstory, from her POV: My name is Laura Hill. I was born on September 9th 2003, to an aspiring author by the name of Tony Hill. He was a single dad, and the best guy ever, to my mind. My life wasn’t fancy, or particularly unusual, it just was. Each day, I’d get up, have breakfast with Dad, he’d go to work while I played with my friends on our block or go to preschool or elementary school, depending on how old I was. At noon, I’d go home if I didn’t have school, eat my premade lunch, then go out to play again. At half-past five, Dad’d get home, he’d make dinner and then, depending on how old I was, read me a story, teach me to read, or I’d read him a story. Then I’d get ready for bed, and if I was lucky, he’d read me another story, often a snippet of one of the stories he was working on. After I went to bed, he’d spend another hour or two writing, then go to bed himself. Rinse and repeat. I wanted to be just like him, and he always said reading lots was key to becoming an author, so I read often. That all changed the day of the crash. I was nine years old and got immediately placed into an orphanage. It was strange and terrifying, and books only served to remind me that Dad was gone. He’d never read to me again. Then we had a class novel to read. Resigned to the fact that I’d have to read it, I picked it up one night after school, planning to just get up to chapter five, so I was up to date with the rest of the class. Someone shook my shoulder, and I looked up to see the matron tell me that it was dinner time. I was up to chapter 15. Then I read to escape from the pain of the world - the children teasing me about my hair and skin colour, the pain of not having Dad… Eventually the pain lessened, and so I then read just for the fun of it. By that time, I had left the orphanage and lived in a foster home. It was okay, but it wasn’t particularly enjoyable. In year eight, we had to do some reading comprehension with some book chapters. One was about some kid dying and the nitty-gritty of heaven (I can’t remember the name of the book) and one was I Accidentally Vaporize My Maths Teacher. I was hooked, and wanted to find the book. Unfortunately, I couldn’t, so I read Heroes of Olympus. I knew as much as Jason or Percy did when I read them. Reading HOO first is probably why I got so attached to Jason (not sure if that’s a good or bad thing…. You know why). Anyway, when I found The Lightning Thief, I read it, but the funny thing was that it was almost like I hadn’t read Heroes of Olympus, ‘cause I didn’t remember the spoilers it had given me. Then I read all the books through in order. I got kinda obsessed, it’s the only series I bought rather than just borrowing it from the library whenever I wanted to read it and the only series I got merch for. She also looks very unusual with Red hair, blue eyes & dark skin, but she's fine with it despite the weird looks she gets
Clicking into this I'm actually curious. Do you think visual structure of a story designed to catch a readers/watchers eyes is important in the story and does it take away from it? Like for example fairy tail, in my opinion, is better written character-wise than most of other shonen anime/manga. Especially ones much longer like Naruto and dragon ball. However despite it's great characters and varied personalities and stories, one complaint is the females design and fanservice. So to simplify my question. Does the physical features and art of a character change the characters story beyond repair?
Hey Abbie! Hi everyone reading my comment. How to change povs of the characters while writing a book? Because other characters ( for eg the narrator) cannot know what going inside another person's mind.. So how do you do that? I'd really appreciate suggestions. Thank you!
Hi 😄 There's actually a literary device called free indirect discourse. It's kinda like the narrator/narrative voice (third person POV) does actually enter into the mind of a character. Take Pride and Prejudice as an example. Jane Austen was a master at free indirect discourse. In one section involving Charlotte Lucas we read, "[Person], to be sure, was neither sensible nor agreeable; his society was irksome, and his attachment to her must be imaginary. But still he would be her husband." So it's like we enter her head, especially when we read *must*. Hope this helps 😊
Um, so... So you said as an example that a villain could become evil because of loss and then start fighting against everyone because they want vengeance. (Or something like that) Well what if my villain knows that the person who is behind there loss is on a certain side. So my villain fights against that side and causes a lot of suffering for them even though he knows that none of them are responsible and weren't even good guys when his friend or relative was killed. He changes from trying to kill the person that killed his friend to wrecking the lives of people who are part of the same group the person who killed his friend was in even though none of them were part of the organization when his friend was killed. Because my villain already knows the truth I can't make my villain good because they learn the truth. So how else could I make them good?
Are there any books or movies where the protagonist turns into the antagonist and antagonist turns into the protagonist at the beginning of the story and might have flashbacks?
Agreed 💯% ‼️ { I sent Abbie Emmons a direct reply from her comment she messaged another viewer on a recent community post { section } of her channel ~ she's failed to reply ... even with at least a #ThankYou } . *IF* I'm successful at authorship it would be a buzz 🥳 to have my book(s) create a whole new genre 📚🆕️✍️
Nice episode. Sorry, I am bit late. I disagree with you, with the villain getting redemption arc part. Not all villains and there handiworks deserves redemption. A villain who made a error in judgement, is the most deserving, IMO. A lot of folks tend to get confused between broken characters and ruthless villains. But giving redemption arc to a homicidal or a genocidal maniac, is poor storytelling. Sure, it can be done and it has been done. But does that being relatable? No. If someone writes a Hitler-esque villain in a ww2 setting and give them a redemption arc, then a lot of folks are simply going to roll their eyes. Ultimate sacrifice is just another tool, that should be used seldom. Just saying.
Abbie , You go-on about being a #psychology 🧠 nerd 🤓 AND YET you didn't give us examples of what type of preparation template Or novel assembly process is best suited for which psychological / personality types 😮💨🤳 . I can cope with psychological / personality category terms As my mum is a psychologist ❤️🔥📝 . But I { will try } doing that " homework 🧑🏫 " . John from Australia ♑️✍️🇦🇺🇳🇴
🙄 : Tippical male ♂️ response 🤦 . There's more subjects FAR MORE interesting , than pornography 🦵👀 . { I } don't ever think C.S.Lewis was into zoophilia / bestiality . ♑️✍️🇦🇺🇳🇴 📖🦁🧙♀️🗝☃️
