@@subjectc7505 In a simulation that the U.S wouldn't do in normal circumstances, why doesn't Sweden bring those subs out of the Baltic Sea?.... Oh they can't
i would guess: - at least one of the gotland class subs would be patrolling around st petersberg, so sweden would probably get a farily early warning. if nothing else, finland would probably alert sweden, when a strike fleet is leaving the russian port. - the other 2 subs would probably scramble as well, once the russian fleet is detected - sweden would probably have at least some gripens up in the air at any given time, especially when a russian fleet leaves port
Ye some time ago sweden knew that a russian Cruiser was in the baltic 20 min before it had left the port, and turns out it was going for the tiny russia, and not Gotland. So sweden knows when russia is coming.
@@danielfagerfalt4823first of all they are stealth, so how could they be targeted so easy? In realillity Russian woulden't be able to. Only when the corvetts lights up their own active radars they would be spotted but that is no, no thing. Also they have good electronic warfare systems, as very last case they shoot flares. Nothing of that happend? I cant tell how realistic this is but probably not so much.
Could you have continued this scenario? As you and some of the team said, Sweden would have reloaded their anti-ship Gripens and gone after the Russian fleet who have used most of their defensive missiles. Surely this scenario is not complete
Few notes after seeing the video: - Russian "Carrier" never performed as well in real life as it did here. It maxed out at about 20 sorties a day if I remember correctly, and launching this would take about an hour. Two planes hitting each other on the deck - this part is realistic. - Also the Tug Boat. It is always accompanied by a Tug Boat, because it beaks down all the time. - Russian Missle defense if worse in real life than it is here. 1 vs 1 usually gets everything, but poor training caused confusion and mistakes when the attack is carried out from different directions. Look at the sinking of Moskva. They were distracted by Bayractar Drone and missed two Neptune missiles. And Neptune was considered old, obsolete and had warhead so small that NATO estimated thet they would need 5-6 of them to sink a cruiser. And in real life - 2 were enough. - Most of experienced air craft pilots in Russia died in the Ukraine. They sent instructors to fight, and all of their night campaigns ended up in making huge craters in the middle of empty fields. - There would be attack from the Russia's mail land as well. Mig-29 with extra fuel tanks would fly from Krolevec. (Territory that Joined Czech Republic after internet vote, but is still occupied by Russia, near Poland and Lithuania) Accompanied by Iskander missiles. Probably 50+ airplanes, mostly Su-27, Su-35S and Mig-29 accompanied by 60-80 Iskanders. Not to mention Mi-24. - You underestimated Sweden's AA batteries. They have more of them on Gotland, and even more on mainland. (Although those didn't play any role here) So there should be more Russian missiles and aircraft. A lot more. But a lot less skilled. Also Russia would not try to destroy runways. They would destroy AA, and send Mi-24's and paratroopers to take over airport, to establish air bridge for land forces. Like they did in last 5 wars in which they participated. Also set them to RTB after firing, and simulate second wave attack. Most likelly in second wave there will be only few Iskanders and Kindzal missiles (they have used up most of them on Ukraine, and Russia can't manufacture them in big quantities) Some old type missiles, and older airplanes launching from Krolevec and st. Petersburg. All with additional fuel tanks and only a few missiles.
trying to contest baltic airspace against swedish meteors sounds like one of the dumbest things I can imagine for russia to participate in, gripens armed with both meteors and iris-t's would trade incredibly well against russian frames
What it's really not factoring in is brand new Estonian "Blue Spear" and Finnish "Gabriel V" long range anti-ship low altitude missiles purchased from Israel, which are already deployed and truck mounted for specifically such a scenario. They can basically close off the gulf of Finland. Look up their ranges, capabilities, accuracy and so on. Yet this video shows Russian landing and warships leaving St Petersburg, getting into cozy fighting positions literally right on the Estonian coastline, with their backs turned to Estonia. Which is hilarious. At that point those missiles could reach those ships from literally any point in Estonia. Latvia is also currently purchasing Norwegian "Naval Strike Missile" units with similar capabilities that would be well in range to strike them. Plus, all 3 Baltic States are buying HIMARS with ATACMS missile variants that have harpoon anti-naval warheads.
If some slow naval drones + Ukrainian made Neptune missiles were able to attrit some of the Black Sea Fleet(which is significantly more capable and well defended than Russia's Baltic one) and force it to be pulled back to preserve it, much more capable missiles like Blue Spear would most likely be devastating. Specially in the much smaller, more boxed in and easily visible territory of the Gulf of Finland. You can literally climb a coastal hill and see Estonia from Finland with a naked eye. That gives you an idea of what a narrow channel (in between NATO countries that are preparing for such a scenario no less) Russia would be trying to push their navy through to try and capture Gotland.
@@mp1335swedish rbs missiles are extremely good too, they are completely under developed in dcs tho, for example they fly way to high (they should fly 0.5m above the ocean) and don’t have any evading maneuvers programmed in, in reality Russia wouldn’t be able to defend from them
So much wrong with this setup. MiG-29:s? Really? Entirely ignoring Kaliningrad? Also there is no way that kind of surprise attack from the direction from St. Petersburg would be possible. Finland/Estonia would let Sweden know if a russian fleet was moving through the gulf of Finland. This is an interesting concept but to be honest it needs to be entirely redone.
I just want to say that Russia does not have 6 Gorshkov class frigates. They have 2 with a third under construction, so it would be nice to see the future representations of the Russian CSG use just 2 Gorshkovs and perhaps a Kirov, a Slava, Udaloy II, and Sovremenny for variety. By the way there are mods out at the moment that add Udaloy II and Sovremenny to the game.
That changes the game significantly. Also, I believe that Russian SAMs are signigicantly overperofrming in DCS at the moment due to the fact that everyone's relying on simulating "stated capabilities" (in these cases, Russian propaganda). - IRL We're seeing Russian IADS and naval assets destroyed by much smaller strikes.
@@clivereid Well Russian have had quite a lot of problem with the system not sufficiently field tested. They do make a lot of fancy weapons, then when they go to war they turn it all of becasue all the systems have not been tested together. I would say that is a big part in Western weapon R&D is so expensive and take so long time because all of it is Red&Blue tested. There is a few more issues, the Bofors 40 and 57 used in the CV90 and the visby is not proximity fuse but computer controlled fuse. Those are far more efficient in shooting down missiles, and also works really well on super and hyper sonic missiles. Apart from that the Meteor can be guided from 3rd source. This is highly integrated in the defense system. Meteor is a European colab. The engine is from UK, some of the launch and outer parts are from france, but the guidance and targeting system is from Sweden. That is why it was originally tested on Gripen because that was the only weapon-system that could launch it from the get go. Can also guide a unlimited amount of missiles at one time, if i understand it correctly the R-77 have a data link limitation. Gripen also got a lot of anti radarsystem integrated. I don´t know i they work, but i guess the airforce at least believes they work, other vice it would not be much point putting them on
@@clivereid In reality their weapon systems are probably underperforming due to poor crew training whine naval assets are being destroyed by drone boats which isn't unique to Russia historically and the Moskva was sunk which wasn't surprising. However the Sevastopol strikes were just sheer high level stupidity. IRL all weapon systems are vulnerable hence why an Israeli F35 was locked up and hit by an S200 system in 2017 and why S400 being used and deployed by retards is underperforming compared to claims.
Hey, former Swedish naval officer here. There are SO many things wrong. 1. The visby is a exelent stealth ship the russians woulndt be able to lock on them. 2. the russians would never use the carriers in the baltic sea sens the size is too smal to justify it AND see point 3. 3. you totaly missed the biggest threat to the russian navy, the swedish submarines, they would massacre the russian ships. 4. the gripen is designed to take off form road bases, they dont need runways. 5. most of swedens airforce and air defences are placed in the southern part of the country sens the north dont "have that much of anything" 6. the gripen can carry 2 antiship missles as wells as meteor. 7. gripen is superior due to its electronic warfare. 8. and this is for like all of the simulations online... JAMING and countermessures is how you defeat antiship missles. few have been shot down in accual combat. i could go on but this is the most important things that would have change the outcome.
Sweden was a major regional power before and during the Napoleonic era. It had decent land forces and capable naval forces. In comparison to its neighbours (during a time when russia was barely able to defend itself from France) it was a significant power.
Interresting video. Even there are mayor errors it makes you think. The islands outside of Estonia actually belongs to Estonia. - Where are the Swedish subs? They would make a big difference likely 🤨 - If the runways are cut the Gripens will just land on a road nearby. Remember that this is one of the main reasons why Ukraine wants the Gripen ASAP. 😉
The 57mm air-burst shells from Visby is not proximity fussed. They are computer control preburst rounds. It make a huge area of shrapnel in front of what ever flies into it. The faster the missile is, the harder the shrapnel would hit. I kind of doubht that a hypersonic missile would survive that. It being hypersonic don´t help in the slightest when its preburst shells. The computer know the range and speed and can just preburst it at the closer range to get optimal effect. I also kind of doubt they would detect Visby that far out. And apart from that, Visby is in a very unstrategic position. Sweden got some pretty decent subs as well like the Gottland class. "Kinematic notches a metior" yea.. that sounds a bit unrealistic, it can do 20G turns Its not only that the Gripen lack the anti missile system that it have IRL but also lacks the advanced anti radar system, specially so the E version that is started to get online today. "will refuel that would not happen in the time of the battle today" Wahahahaha... well its faster to refuel a Gripen than a volvo. Yes, they refuel with the engine still on. Swedish airforce don´t run dedicated attack or fighter sortie. Now all sorties are mixed sorties. So the plain would not have either meteor or RBS15, but rather both. And it would probobly have 2 meteior, 2 RBS15, 5 sidewinders and a drop tank. The Swedish patriot system have not a dedicated position, but move around on a week by week basis. It would be rare to see them so far inland, and also its unlikely that Russian would know where they are. They have the ability to be based of Gotland, and if there would be a indication of threat a few days in forehand, they probobly would be. Meteor missile can track on other planes radar, but also on the ground system as well as the sea based system. So the missiles could be fired with out the plane having a lock. They would probably have a few planes in front with short range missiles guiding in the Metior and RBS15 from planes flying around over Stockholm somewhere. "They can´t land if the runway been cunt" *Laught in Swedish supremacy* Do you want to bet?
Sorry guys thats just not realistic I saw a lot of bugs with the Russian hardware. 1) the aircraft carrier was not on fire, you need to fix that. 2) Russian cruse missiles are not used to attack airfields, they are designed to hit hospitals, kindergartens, apartment buildings and parks, you need to fix that too. 3) Everybody knows the Kh-47M2 Kinzhal can not be shot down by anything because it is hypersonic and no hypersonic ICBM has ever been shot down not even satellites by American made missiles, thats definitely true ;-) 4) many of those ships have been converted to submarines and are stuck in the Black Sea.
@@hughmungus2760 The Dry dock can no longer be used dip shit. It has a brand new state of the fart sub burning in it. 🖕🖕so all the other damaged ships can not be fixed. There are no Gorshkovs in the Black Sea and Russia only has 2 any way Big WOOP!
Nice to see a simulation on a possible future hotbed. As it stands Gotland is sweet candy for Russia. Sweden is famous in the world for making good weapons although being a neutral and peaceful country for over 200 years.However it looked like your program had some serious problems with the Swedish weapons systems as well as tactics. All of the systems are calibrated to a potential Russian foe for historic reasons. One example could be RBS 15 and I think you used Gungnir. The are supposed to be used in swarms calculated to the opponents size of force and more crucially if you want to shoot down one of these bad boys you better have really agile countermeasures. They all coordinate which each other and slide around like a snakes before final approach.
The main thing about Sweden is that we didn't get hit by the first and second WW so we could reap the benefits of commerce, R&D and industry while other countries were just recuperating from war damage. This gave Sweden a huge lead in technology development. Also in the 90's we had a state subsided computer program that allowed families to buy computers directly with their salaries before paying any taxes so computer literacy got high rally fast. Every home had a computer and an internet connection. Broadband also were wide spread very early. I had 100Mbit in 2000. Sweden was a pioneer in pretty much every tech area because of this.
So, if Sweden and FInland have a defense pact, then wouldn't Finland help defend Sweden and attack the Russian ships and aircrafts? Also, there is a Nordic defense "pact" between Finland, Sweden, Norway, Denmark and Iceland. Would that mean that these Nordic countries come to Sweden's defense without dragging NATO?
If DCS supported it, it would be interesting to see player controlled surface, and submarine forces to throw more of a wrench into things. Part of my reasoning here being that Sweden regularly keeps at least one of their Gotland class submarines (the sub so stealthy that it's credited with killing a US carrier in war games, and the US never knew it was there) near the island to deter Russians from getting too creative and invading.
9:20 If the Gripen ends up in a dog-fight with the MiG 29, it's a sign of something gone horribly wrong on the Swedish side. The whole Gripen concept is to keep the costs down while retaining system efficiency. That means the aim is to give individual aircraft only "good enough" performance, but have them totally integrated in the network so that the over all effect is much higher than the individual components. That allows the plane closest to the enemy in the four-wing to fire, based on the target resolutions given by the other three planes collecting data from different angles, while also engaging in EW against the enemy sensors to keep the firing aircraft invisible for longest possible. Seems the Americans are catching up with their F-35 system. The Visby (incidentally the capital of Gotland, which gave name to the submarine class) corvettes are also part of the network, as is the EriEye mounted on the SAAB 340. This network can exchange data with the ground control network used in the CV90s and strv 122 among others, including the Rb15 KA (Coastal Artillery) units.
OK, after battle evaluation. * Submarines. Since they aren't working in DCS, they can't be included directly for obvious reasons, but they would provide early warning, allowing the air-wings a higher state of readiness. * The air to air wing from Gotland acted very weird, loitering around log after they launched their Meteors when they should have returned for rearmament as soon as their hardpoints were empty. Not as feasible for the inland air wings of course, but I think the Swedish losses would been smaller if Gripens weren't just flying around aimlessly after launching their long range missiles. * The Rb15 attacks would have been more coordinated, since their launcher network exchange data with both the Gripen network as well as with the Gotland corvettes. * Same goes with the Russian missile attacks, time of launch coordinated to have most missiles arrive at target in the same time frame. * While the Rb15 from the KA battery have limited options, the anti-shipping airwing could have circled further to the north to bypass the screening corvettes and attack the landing craft directly. The carrier would not been seen as an important target, as its aircraft complement was already depleted and thus is more or less impotent. * The Lvkv 90 contribution was disappointing. While limited in onboard ammunition, I feel they should have been more effective in handling the few missiles coming close. All in all though, I must say this simulation really demonstrate the high intensity and brutal destruction a modern day invasion attempt would display, with most of the battle being over in less than an hour once it kicks off, and thus quite realistic in spite of the specific details being off.
As soon as an attack is suspected the Gripens are already being dispersed to surrounding road bases. Turnaround times at a road base is such that the plane spends no more than around 10 minutes on the ground before the next sortie. Everything needed to achieve this is on trucks and can be moved to wherever needed very quickly.
These are always a lark. You beef up Russia to amazing hights, granting them never-seen-operationally new missiles and a working aircraft carrier, then you remove one of Sweden's primary strategic naval defenses (submarines)... and the military super power of Russia still falls on its face. Amazing.
Great battle, but would Russia even risk taking their only carrier into the Baltic? If they attacked Gotland, it would almost certainly either be stuck there, or sunk trying to escape to the North Sea. If they were thinking of likely triggering WWIII, you'd think they'd want it somewhere with access to open waters, not trapped and encircled by NATO forces.
But where was Sweden Gotland Class submarines? And yes Gripen is designed to land on highways from the beginning and can land and take off from very short distances that is why it has Canard Wings in the front.
Ever heard of the "Whiskey on the rocks"-incident? (There is a short explanation available on the Wikipedia for "Soviet submarine S-363") I would love a simulation of what could had happened if the crisis had turned hot.
Cap: They've got themselves jammed! Radar operator: Sir, the radar it appears to be jammed. Lord Helmet: Rapsberry. There is only one man who would dare give me the rapsberry. LONESTAR!!!!!!!!
The airbase isn't that important for the JAS Gripen though. They can easily land and take of from roads, and be maintained anywhere by a small crew. Like in the forest - or a barn. But maybe that's not possible to simulate in game. And where are the submarines?
The good thing is that there is no way russia could pull this off without NATO/US/UK intelligence knowing beforehand... the US would immediately have a carrier group in the area, Finland has 64 F-35s coming, as Norway, Finland, Sweden, and Denmark have signed an agreement to operate their air forces as 1 large air force. Denmark has another 27 F-35s on order. And Norways 52 F35s.. NATO knows that this island is strategically important to what is now basically lake NATO. This scenario basically puts everything russia has against the absolute bare minimum defense that would happen in real life.
Refuel and rearm take 10-15 minutes for the Jas 39.We only need 800m or airstrip. So any road will do. So no, the airforce would still be able too land and rearm.
Now what would happen in real life even if Sweden isn't in NATO? Well there's the Mutual defence clause from the EU. So, Finland, Poland, Germany, Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia would come to aid first, The rest of the EU wouldn't be too far behind for a counter offensive. In a vacuum Russia might have the upper hand, but wars are not fought in a vacuum.
Mig-29 and Gripen are not even close to being equal… Gripen has better radar, much smaller RCS, datalink and a EW suite that would make it a real problem for the MiG’s to even get a proper lock on. The Visby corvettes are stealth… The list goes on…
Their membership in NORDEFCO seems to have given them some sort of collective defense agreement while they wait for NATO membership. At least according the statements that other NORDEFCO members.
So nearly all of Russia's major surface combatants versus not even the whole navy/ air force of a country with a defence budget 13793% smaller than NATO.
I wonder how long Sweden's ADA takes to move and then become operational? I would imagine the command would've seen the Russian navy in time to move those southern elements up north to augment that side of the airfield in time for those cruise missles. Plus, the Swedish anti ship planes could've been launched in time to have landed for refueling before sending their payload. I think if they could've taken off closer, with fresh fuel, and then gotten into a four plane echelon formation, the sheer amount of each volley might've gotten a couple of the russian ships as well. 🤷♂️
Obvious things you seem to have missed to take into account: Königsberg region, Sweden's JEF membership, the EU defense clause, and Swedish submarines. (As a Brit you really shouldn't forget JEF since it directly affects you). As for the orcs' possible motivation to attack Gotland, they actually occupied Gotland for nearly 4 weeks in 1808. We already know the flimsy arguments the orcs make when they attack and invade their neighbours. So Putler might very well use that occupation in 1808 as an excuse. In that case I guess it would be open season for Sweden to take back St. Petersburg, since that used to be ours. That would lock Mordor out of the Baltic Sea completely, assuming Poland and Lithuania would split Königsberg between themselves (due to the EU defense clause coming into effect).
Looking forward to the Luleå-class corvettes joining in the defense. As cap mentioned, it might be the future. Slightly larger than the Visby and packed with missiles.
This doesn't look realistic at all. First of all, Sweden would know that those ships are leaving St. Petersburg and would have atleast 4 gripen in the air. There would be atleast 1 Gotland Class submarine lurking and shooting down the aircraft carrier as soon as the first missile is launched (just look how Gotland "sank" USS Ronald Regan). Atleast one of the groups of Patriots would be stationed on Gotland.
The swedes may have some emergency bases scattered around, but I'd imagine it's pretty difficult to coordinate 30 or so pilots all trying to land with minimal fuel, along with sending crews and equipment to each location. They would be able to keep fighting, but the first sortie would take a while to get off of the ground
Год назад
@@andrasbeke3012resources will obviously be dispatched beforehand. Turnaround is
@@andrasbeke3012 nope, the entire Swedish airforce is designed around the concept. From the modularity and data link network of the Gripen airframes and it's predecessors Viggen and Draken down to a ground crew requirement of only one technical officer and seven conscripts.
Because of Admiral Kuznetsov depth and height she should not be able to sail into the Baltic. If she could temporarily kut of some of her height and enter the Baltic you could be sure that the Swedish forces should be on high alert.
I'd love to see that follow-up strike modelled with the Russian ships in their defence-depleted state - they had a quarter or so of their missiles left, would that be enough to repel a second strike?
It would be interesting to include submarines in the battle. I doubt the Russians would have the balls to enter the Baltic. They can't afford to lose those ships.
Things the Swedes are known for: -Midsömmar -ABBA -closeted (and not so closeted) Nazis -They were once an Empire and Findland, Norway, The Baltic States and Poland were once their colonies (the last two were lost to Russia during the Great Northern War) -One of the best military forces in the world, a necessity if you take into account the strategic position of Scandinavia (next to Russia, access to the Artic and Baltic Seas) -IKEA -meat balls -during the 70s it was a “refugee paradise” for political asylum-seekers from Latin American dictatorships (specially from Chile and Argentina)
Saved 90% of Denmarks jews, Saved 50% of Norways jews. Helped UK find Bismarck and Tirpitz, cracked codes while spying on phonelines. sent troops to Finland during the winter war. trained Norways resistance fighters. Theres alot of things you could say instead of Coseted Nazis :D
Sweden does not really need runways, so they could rearm and refuel and keep coming. The land batteries would keep firing and the Swedish airforce would keep attacking until the Russians run out of planes and missiles. There are also Swedish submarines and then the Swedish land forces should anyone make it alive to the shore. Russia has no chance of taking Gotland with this force. Even double this force would be hard pressed to take Gotland.
Great simulation! In real world I hope that the RBS15 will perform better. Otherwise Sweden has serious problem. The Visby corvette would also be hiding near the coast line and would not be sailing in open waters.
In real life the RBS15 MK4 would absolutely perform better, DCS did not have the correct behavior of these missiles, they have randomly generated flight paths, coordinate with each other after being launched to attack from multiple angles, when close to target it generates another random flight path to make itself a hard target and on top of it if the enemy tries to jam it, it locks onto the jamming signal and destroys the jammer instead
I'd be really surprised if Kinzhals could hit a moving target. That would require a tracking radar surely, and I think the superheated plasma around its nose would interfere with radar signals. Anyone here know anything about that?
Not sure myself, since it is generally believed to use exclusively GPS/INS with possible mid course updates via IL-20, but those midcourse updates are sent to the MIG-31K or TU-22, not the missile. It’s possible it can only hit ships in port. Maybe it has some hidden radar in the nose and it does a pull-up manuever to lower speed to temporarily let it’s hypothetical radar scan, like how the Pershing II solved the plasma problem.
Iirc some of the Baltic fleet's Ropucha class ships were moved to the Black Sea in late January 2022 prior to the invasion. Also, The UK has a defense pact with Sweden that they signed May 2022, so longer term Russia is going to have to deal with two carrier fleets armed with F-35B, and their force is pinned into the Baltic.
You really do NOT want to run around in the Baltic sea with carriers if there is any risk of hostilities, as they'd be the proverbial fish in the barrel. Rebasing the aircraft from positions outside the Norwegian coast is a very valid option though.
@@johanmetreus1268 why would they be fish in a barrel? Russian capabilities to strike a carrier group in the Baltic isn't any better than any other body of water and NATO nations control access to the sea. HMSQE can come and go as she pleases and F-35b is a far bigger problem for the Russian naval aviators to deal with than the alternative.
@@colbunkmust Even if totally disregarding submarines (the Baltic Sea has plenty of thermal layers as well as layers of different saltiness, making it really hard to find submarines), there isn't much room to manoeuvre meaning the carrier group can not hide its exact location like it can out on the ocean, nor spread out for better defensive cover. Tight spaces and shallow waters also means mines will be a constant threat, and again, not much space to go around in. It will also be within range of land based systems as soon as it passes Bornholm in addition to the air- and sea based missiles usually encountered, and there are only so many defence missiles on board the vessels.
@@johanmetreus1268 The British just need to get their carrier group within range to defend Gotland, I'm not suggesting that they sail to Kailingrad. If Russia started mining the Baltic maritime lanes they would likely trigger article five which would negate the whole point of the scenario in the video. Obviously a fleet doesn't have unlimited ammo, but that's irrelevant, because the Russians don't have unlimited strike capabilities either, if the fleet runs low on ordnance it can leave at any time to resupply. Also, we can disregard "submarines" because currently there is only one, not plural, Kilo class in service in the Baltic Sea fleet.
@@colbunkmust I think we're talking apples and pears here. What I am saying is that using a carrier group in the Baltic sea itself during a conflict is an unreasonable high risk to take from a military standpoint, as it is nigh impossible to defend it due to the reasons described in the previous post. It is akin to having a naval battle in a bath tub, depriving the carrier its greatest advantage: being able to strike from a distance. Now the political side is a totally different matter. With Sweden not being part of NATO, would a British ship in NATO waters be allowed to give assistance to Sweden? If it did, would Russia attacking it still be counted as an attack on NATO, or seen as related to the conflict between Russia and Sweden without connection to NATO? Would Russia see it as Britain acting as an individual country, or as a representative of NATO? Plenty of such questions that I am in no position to answer, or even make some reasonable speculations around.
The gripen locations and numbers is a funny one, they move around alot. As for AA i think it's very mobile but it might be against the law to disclose its location.
En svensk tiger... *jag ser många rycks med i debatter och diskussioner som denna. Och för att få lite creed och bidra med vasst content för lite status och ryggdunk i kommentarerna = ger man ut massor av information som främmande makt får gratis. Mvh
Lets face the Swedes are Vikings and have excelled forever it seems, just a tough, ingenuitive country. Doesnt matter if its small look at all the inventions from Scotland despite always having a fairly low populous compared to most nations.
ill answer your questions as im a swede first question: sweden is so well know becouse of its big economy, its military and ikea second question: this one is harder but i would say that its becouse sweden needs fighter that are cheap to produce (compared to other fighter jets in the world) but still effective and with swedens defense strategy being to kill the target even before its close to land saab aka swedens lockhead martin and the airforce get a big part of the defense budget so our fighter wont be outdated incase an enemy attack comes. same with the navy as the swedish navy is more smaller faster vessels that can attack quick and then get out quick to keep the enemy at bay. also its linköping not lidköping but i also get that confused some times.
Yeah Swedish subs not to mention Finland, Norway and the UKs full assistance before Russia got too close using satellites with typhoons & f16s rushing over for a quick exercise first.
Some small adjustments. The Swedish air bases are peace time air bases. In war time the airplanes will not be placed on peace time air bases, but spread out around straight road strips. There are around 200 of these in Sweden. If you are going to add the Russian Kuznetsov, you should add the 5 Swedish stirling subs that will take out Kuznetsov early and easily. By the way you pronounced "Ronneby" and "Uppsala" unusually well. Linköping should be pronounced with the 'ö' character as 'u' in British 'Murder'.
Lol yeah, a flawless "Uppsala" followed by the pronunciation disclaimer felt off, and Ronneby was no different. Fair enough on not attempting Lidköping though, I would've been very surprised if he'd known the "k" is pronounced "ch".
@@fuke1345 " I like how everyone forgets about anti-submarine warfare from the Russian destroyers " - Tech that west had around 1960. They can't find a Swedish Stirling driven sub. Check war games 'A Swedish Stealth Submarine Sank A U.S. Aircraft Carrier'
RBS15 MK4 turns left right in random directions when close to target to evade aa missiles and close in aa defense. Also waypointguided. Visby Corvetts are stealth ships, would not go near without Submarines. Still good fun and more of this please!
Aren't those the same ones that if they get jammed they switch from their main target to the thing thats jamming it instead? I read about it awhile ago but can't remember if it's the RBS15 or not
@@dirreeN That is correct. and they fly 0.5m above the water surface, they are undetectable before they cross above the horizon. at which time they're practically unstoppable with all their other unique tech features.
My guess is that Kuznetsov would sink all of its own accord long before it manages to reach the baltic sea without a single shot fired. Its a joke of a ship.
Sweden was neutral during WW2. After the war we had all the industries intact. Since we chose to be neutral, we realized that we needed a very strong air force, a strong navy and a strong enough army that it would cost too much to attack Sweden. In the 60s and 70s we had one of the strongest air forces in the world. That is, the Russians would not be able to attack across the Baltic Sea. Thanks for interesting videos.
Another part of this: Being neutral meant that it was desired to not rely on imported weapons. Therefore Sweden's weapons industry (including aviation) is disproportionate compared to population. Comparisons with Finland's defense forces drive this home. Finland fields a larger army by soldier count, but spend less. This is due to upwards of 50% of the defense budget goes to R&D, acquisition in Sweden whereas in Finland this is around 5-10% (This is an old fact and probably not true anymore). Regarding aviation in particular, fighting aircraft were produced domestically early on, but there were also imports. I think the first afterburning serial production fighter is Swedish. Supposedly during Viggens development there was a secret deal with the US that Sweden would protect the Baltic flank of NATO in exchange for technical knowledge of (at the time) advanced avionics and aircraft modelling. (Apparently known as "Annex-37") The expertise built around viggen carried on into gripen development it seems. That being said, both the viggen and a/b model gripens were very dependent on the rest of Swedish air defense system. (To the point that you shouldn't enter coordinates in the viggen computer far outside Swedish territory, in DCS we have different behaviour, but theres still issues around the 0 and 100 degree lines in Lat/Long)
Our real status was not neutral. We changed to a neutral state in 1812, after the napoleonic wars, but when germany invaded finland in 1939, we changed from neutral to non-belligerant. This enabled us to send soldiers to fight for finland in the finnish winter war as well as fight with the norwegians in norway.
Indeed. While nuclear subs are better for long range attack roles, a modern diesel-electric sub can just turn the engine off, sit quietly almost undetectable and wait for the enemy to arrive. If I were on a Russian ship fighting Swedish subs I'd never feel safe anywhere in the Baltic.
@@jpaulc441 the sterling engines of the Gotland class is so quiet that it will likely not be heard by Russian ships until the torpedoes are in the water. On top of that, the moment Russian intent of attack is confirmed, at least one Gotland class sub will head for each of the Russian ports in the Baltic to absolutely saturate them with sea mines.
I did my stint in the Swedish Army on Gotland back in 2004. Some of my platoon mates got to respond to a Gripen making an emergency landing on the southern end of the island following a bird strike. I think it landed on a public road, and took off once they had checked for any real damage.
Fun idea, but as we all know. The kusnetzov would most likely set itself aflame before anything else, as well the RBS 15 Mk IV should be evading the Russian countermeasures and the Gripen E should be substantially harder to aquire. Nonetheless, always happy to see big booms.
@@willwozniak2826 Sweden have flying sam battery, and have had so for like 40 years. That is missiles launched of aircraft but controlled from sea or land. Sweden have a total land-sea-air system integration. All systems are fully integrated and sea, air and land unit can not only directly talk to each other but also use the same combat link as well as guide each other weapon. I might be wrong about this, bit i think even the submarines can link
I spent a few days in Kaliningrad, at Baltiysk the home of the Russian Baltic fleet, as part of a visit by the Royal Navy. They had just one working warship and that was in terrible condition. All the others were rusting hulks. As a result, I have a very, very low opinion of Russian naval capabilities.
Gripen: "where we're going, we don't need runways." There's a funny saying here from Gripen pilots: When U.S runways get bombed in half they say "oh no, we don't have a runway!" When Swedish runways get bombed the gripen pilots say: "Perfect, now we have 2 runways." (For the extreme short take off and landings the gripen does)
Submarines are ALWAYS omitted as that part of DCS is very flaky at the moment. So you will just have to assume that going under the surface of the sea is super deadly, so no country has invented subs in these GR videos.
Aldo the kinshal isnt hypersonic, and theres nonway it can target a visby stealth corvette :) Moskva was sunk by a single anti ship missile so i thunk the RBS15 has a pretty good chance to go through
@@dexlab7539Not in the Baltic Fleet. Well, one older type Kilo-class sub, that's probably just used for training, and more or less obsolete for combat use. The chances of them getting more of them into the Baltic Sea undetected, are, well, zero. They'd have to navigate them through several choke points, all half the width of the English Channel, and heavily monitored by both Sweden and NATO. Nearly all Russian subs (including all of their more modern ones) are based at ports with easy access to the Atlantic and Pacific, to avoid blockades in the event of a major war. The Kuznetsov wouldn't take part in this attack, for the same reason. Once it's in the Baltic, it wouldn't be allowed back out.
@@AttiliusRex Yea the kinshal claimed data just makes no sense.. almost like it was totally a work of fiction. SRB is the worst kind of engines, still it suppose to fly both faster and longer than any other type of missile. Also worth saying that both the 57mm of Visby and the 40mm AA version of CV90 have preburst sheels. excelent at takeing out both crusie missiles and supersonic missiles
Greetings from Gotland. If all else fails, I have a rather sharp axe in the yard and im good with a catapult. I feel like this would have made a huge difference in the simulation and changed everything!
This is interesting, and maybe you would want to take into account Kaliningrad, the Russian exclave on the coast between Lithuania and Poland. And to answer your question, I think Sweden is prominent in much the same way the Swiss are
It didn't factor in a lot of things. Kaliningrad is one of them. With it's sea fleet, anti-air and aerial capabilities. But then you might as well include NATO deployments in Poland and Lithuania, NATO air mission in Estonia, the fact that even conventional Polish artillery can hit almost every airfield and anti-air TEL system in Kaliningrad from inside Poland, brand new Estonian Blue Spear and Finnish Gabriel V truck mounted long range anti-ship sea skimmer missiles attacking the Russian navy in the very narrow gulf of Finland(this video shows the Russian navy just sitting literally on the coast of Estonia, which may be great for attacking Gotland, but not realistic, because they could not only be hit by Blue Spear, but even by conventional weapon systems that would be well within range) or the fact that by the time any such conflict could take place, Latvia will be armed with Norwegian 'Naval Strike Missiles' which would also easily reach those ships and all three Baltic states will have HIMARS systems with long range ATACMS missiles equipped with harpoon anti-naval warheads (orders already placed, will arrive next year).
Following Finland's and Sweden's request to join NATO in 2022, Denmark, Iceland and Norway released a statement saying that in the case of an attack on Finland or Sweden before they had become part of NATO, all necessary means would be used to help in their defense. NORDEFCO has not generally been seen as a mutual defense pact and it is not regarded as a command structure, but its members have increasingly added features that show some resemblance to a defense pact. In 2021
@@kurstein79Norway, Finland, Sweden, Denmark signed an agreement to operate their air forces as 1 big air force... so that would include over 140 F-35s as well... and intelligence would easily pick this up well beforehand and the US would have a full carrier group in the area.
Also don't forget Poland, they would not be sitting there twiddling their thumbs, simply out of own interest they'd be coming to help. And they are beefing up their armed forces massively atm. Also there's the Baltic Air Policing contingent by NATO to defend the airspace of the 3 Baltic countries, currently (as of Sept. 2023) handled by Spain and Italy with their Eurofighters and F-35. They regularly intercept Russian bombers, SIGINT planes and fighters over the Baltic Sea when there is no flight plan filed or transponder code used (which would be the case here).
Those war games are great! I don't think there is a Swedish air force base at Gotland, just a tiny Army regiment. Also, the two Russian air wings in Kaliningrad (Chkalovsk + Chernyakhovsk) would probably join the attack, while I'm not sure their CSG would be so massive when Swedish submarines might sneak up on them. This might make for an even harder challenge ... and even more boom-boom!
@RoadkillxDemon Yeah, the Russian attack would need to be a surprise attack. By the time Sweden’s allies are alerted, the fight has to over already. Germany for example might reconsider a military intervention when Russia takes Gotland very quickly... while they might act when they see it coming several weeks in advance. As it is really difficult to conduct a surprise attack with a large Kuzneszow CSG, Russia would probably use the forces that are already stationed in Kaliningrad.
Interesting! :) BUT missing many aspects from how it'd play in real life in a slightly longer scenario. From the swedish perspective, when talking about the runways, they aren't nearly as important to the swedish fighters, as they were designed to take off and land on 100's of roads across sweden, they can take off and land on much shorter runways then most other fighters, add to that 100's of roads across sweden designed to be slightly wider, slightly extra long and straight, and with bunkers nearby with fuel and rockets to rearm, and them beeing much faster to rearm then all russian fighters by far, and ofcourse military personal ready to head out and close those roads needed for landing & refuiling the jets. Also the Gotland stealth subs, they'd be sent out as soon as any russian ship left their harbour, and they are fairly nimble/fast for subs, not to mention russia lacks capabilities to locate them, and they can sink anything small up to biggest of carriers, top modern super stealth subs, that in mock battles with US navy took down a carrier multiple times alone while fighting against a whole fleet of ships designed to defend a carrier against submarine attacks. Also CB90 (Stridsbåt 90h), that can be viewed as a modern torpedo boat, it's a assault craft to defend the swedish archipelago (270'000 islands, more then any other nation in the world), but all of them capable to be armed with anti ship torpedos. Also, I think you underestimated how much of the swedish airforce/navy/army are located towards this! Only a minory of the military is directed to defend anything else then towards the baltic sea with gotland beeing the most likely focal point, russia is the only likely threat we have currently, and any land attack would have to go through finland, thus giving us time to relocate if needed, so like 80-90% of the swedish defenses would likely been in play here. But russia would also have other aspects they could tactically/strategically benefit from.
Just like any DCS war games the russian missiles are much more efficient than what we have seen in real life. at least one of those swedish ASMs would have got through.
I would like to think that we have a really good early warning via Finland if they were on the way. And as you stated in the video, about our special ability to initiate the airwing from pretty much any stretch of road long enough. That airbase would be full of decoys.. And we are also experts underwater in this region. They wouldn't even get close :)
hey cap a while ago you guys did a chinese naval attack in san diego with yj-12, maybe you could try an updated one with yj-12, yj-18, and yj-21 and modernized us and chinese carrier groups.
Great simulation. A lot of fun to watch! Not verry realistic but still fun. It is my understanding that Gripen is more or less made for guerilla /pop-up warfare so having a ton of them located in a base is a tactic that isnt verry realistic nor does it matter if russians blast it to pieces as it's basically just a decoy/trap anyway.
There was at some time 2000 bases for them, but the number is lower now. Hardly anyone know the current number, some number i heard circulation is about 500, but it can be anything from 100 to 1000 active
To be fair, Sweden doesn’t need to be in NATO to get NATO’s protection. It just needs an article V-style agreement with Finland. If Russia goes to war with Sweden, and Finland is obligated to join Sweden, what is Russia going to do? NOT attack Finland? Of course Russia would. And then boom. NATO protection for Sweden
