Can we FERMENT Apple Cider in a Mini Keg? - Basics of Pressure Fermentation 

Look into getting a spunding valve. You can dial it to the desired pressure and it will off gas anything higher than that. That will allow you to keep an even pressure throughout the fermentation.

So, as many have suggested, an adjustable relief valve might be a good option, and... just ordered one! So this might have more life to it. I ordered a floating dip tube too :)

Okay. I have been kegging for over a decade, so I'd like to recommend the following. 1. Brew as you usually would for mead and ciders. 2. *Carbonate* in kegs via CO2. That is my recommendation. Do not do natural carbonation for wines and ciders in kegs. That off-flavor that she is tasting is real. Very, very real. It is not great because it is *avoidable* in the standard carboy fermentation method for wines. I think conflating how you can force carbonate *beer* during the fermentation process does not translate well at the homebrewer level. Many temp and yeast variables can lead to serious off-flavors for wines, meads, and ciders. *She's not wrong. *The off-flavor she's tasting is real because under-pressure fermentation for cider can lead to some extreme off-flavors and real funk in aromas. I do not mean this to be a controversial thing. I can only talk from experience that fermentation of wines/ciders under pressure would not be something I recommend. Carbonating *after* fermentation is highly advised in kegs, especially with sound and consistent sanitation methods. I am sure your VIP/Patreon will be quite lively for quite some time, given this experiment. I so enjoy this channel and all the things you try, and I appreciate that kegging is *not* something readily available versus access in your supermarket to honey, water, bread yeast, and a glass jug. Thank you so much for showing this. I think it is important to *stretch* a bit and show what are options and what an investment into equipment may give a homebrewer.

If you guys get into kegging, I would recommend a keg with actual terminals (gas in, liquid out). If you get a second one, you can do a closed transfer. (cut the dip tube to leave a gap for any trub, or use a floating dip tube). Connect Co2 to the fermentation vessel, then do a jumper between both liquid posts and release pressure as you fill your second keg. You can purge the second keg with Co2 before your transfer as well to get a completely oxygen free transfer, and get your brew off the yeast cake!

Some notes about pressure: 1) air is a compressible fluid, and water is uncompressable. A larger headspace will give your vessel more ability to "soak up" CO2 pressure before redlining your regulator, gauge, etc. 2) CO2 will dissolve into water over a pressure gradient. When you pop the pressure release your needle drops, but that lower pressure allows more CO2 to bubble up out of solution. That's why your needle kept climbing back up after venting. Just takes some time to get your pressure and solution back into equilibrium. (And more headspace will let you dump more CO2 per vent, so less vents are needed to get to balance) 3) it's so cool to see your experiments. I've been wanting to try something like this but haven't because i currently no longer have the room to brew. The closest i got before was getting a little ball keg that I'd put a finished gallon in and then dispense under pressure to have carbonated cider/mead, which was very tasty

TY for trying this out. Let us know if and when you play with this concept again. ♥

I love it when you "go where you've never been before"👍. That's what makes this channel so much fun. I'd say to use the kegger after racking from a conventional fermentation container. It looks like it would make adding carbonation easy ❤

@CitySteadingBrews, Great job on this video. I have used this same method to make a 10 day lager. 2 days at low temp(

This was great I enjoyed this video immensely!

This is so exciting. Cats and dogs living together in a cider

Incredibly informative, great job.

Scripted Chaos? Ain't nobody got time for dat! We bring our own!😂😂 Love you guyz!😂

i love seeing that DCC RPG book in the background! I really need to start this, ive watched yall for a while now and i just keep putting it off lol. It looks so fun, and this process seems very promising, even if the initial results didnt pan out so well.

In regards to the initial high pressure, replace the regulator assembly with a blow off tube. When the fermentation starts to subside, put the regulator back on.

I'm interested to try this after primary. Thanks for the awesome experiment! 😊

The first time I fermented under pressure I got the same kind of off smells, I then bought a spunding valve and let it sit around 10 psi, results were better. Keg's can take a bit of getting used to, also a little bit of PTFE tape can help with gas leaks. Defintely worth persuing!

Interesting, and something else I have absolutely no experience of! Looking forward to another attempt with the additional gear you’ve ordered mate 👍

Despite the less than stellar result this video has inspired personal research into local (Australia) pressure fermentation resources. As a brew channel, you both educate, inspire and encourage personal action. I encourage you to continue experimentation, particularly on-camera, to continue educating this community.

So I have a friend that usually ferments under pressure. He mostly makes beer. He ferments in a clear fermzilla with a spunding valve that just releases anything above a certain pressure so he's not forced to keep an eye on it to make sure the pressure doesn't just keep going up. After fermenting he racks it over to a proper keg and dispenses from there. Personally I haven't used my kegs for fermenting in. I did get a few adapters I use to force carbonate in 2l plastic bottles for my smaller stuff like mead and they're great. Maybe something to look into.

Great show again guys! I'd like to see you guys give these things another try... Maybe do your first fermentation the normal way, then syphon it into the big pitcher, degas the brew, backsweeten it and add priming sugar. Then get it into the cannister and just use it to carbonate the brew. The fact you can actually see if your brew is carbonated is super cool!

One of the most interesting videos in a while. But have to admit, in the middle of watching I looked over at a carboy of cider quietly bubbling in the corner and thought "the old way seems simpler". But I'm not really a gadget guy either. But always good to see something different.

Making your concentrated apple wine recipe. 2 gallon apple juice reduced to 1 gallon. 1lb. Sugar spgr 1.110. 71b and most vigorous fermentation I've had. Thx for introduction to the hobby 😊

spunding valve and floating or snipped diptube. i've tried this with a 1.6 gallon ball lock corny keg. you have the ability to bleed off pressure open the wider top and add in fruit or anything you want. You can then have a second one with a liquid to liquid ball locks to transfer off the trub to a serving keg.

I just got into fermenting and was looking up stuff and found your channel. It has helped me so much, about to bottle my first batch of raspberry mead.

Love seeing you guys play around with kegs more :P Even though I usually keg my beers I haven't gone into fermenting under pressure yet.

Nice keg cleaning method!

Awesome vid. A spunding valve is the way to go as suggested in comments. L&R from South Africa

Not sure if you can find them, but a regulated relief valve (check valve of sorts that opens when a certain amount of pressure is obtained), as well as a rupture disk of sorts (essentially a solid plate that blows outward or sucks inward depending on pressure differential, to avoid the vessel exploding or imploding) would be very wise. Also, with oxygen being essential to fermentation, the mix of oxygen and alcohol vapor could "potentially" result in an incendiary explosion. I don't know how likely that would be to occur, or if it ever would, but I do know it's possible. Thanks for all the videos and experiments, really enjoyable to watch.

I love experiments! I see that you're getting getting some helpful accessory tips in the comments, I'm interested to see how they help the process. Doing an extract stout or letting a cider keg sit for a few months could yield something you'd both like, perhaps.

I was "this close" to buying a couple mini kegs you saved me some money ! Thanks

I have a beer fermentation going under pressure. I'm using a 1.6 gallon keg and ended up buying a spunding valve for this and am currently fermenting at 13 psi to prevent yeast esters, as I'm trying to get a crisp lager.

Thank you guys for not fighting over the word cider, I hear it all the time and it gets under my skin quite a bit at this point because it’s not a difficult concept. It doesn’t need to be fought over people just need to understand different regions call things different names sometimes. There’s no “this is right this is wrong” it’s just a regional thing. In the US we call cloudy apple juice cider and fermented juice hard cider. Plain and simple. That’s just how it is there’s no need to argue 😂

Loving the channel thank you 😊

Love this

Thq for both of u being so informative. Now me and my friend have wrecked our first brew

Great video and very informative and interesting

Yeast cells tend to float up when the pressure releases because some co2 is bound to them and takes them with it when it rises in bubbles , so much of your lees will mix in again . To keep the lees down you should ad additional co2 right from the beginning of the taping to keep the pressure in the keg even. That might help a little with the clarity

I actually enjoyed this episode very much. I learned quite a bit. Sorry it cost you some gear. The honesty you brought to the conclusion made me feel like you were helping us avoid pitfalls and it raised my admiration of your work another notch. If I have a disappointing result while experimenting (taking risks), I’m going to feel less anxious about it.

I’ve done this before with a bigger keg and a spunding valve. Extra expense, I know, but I liked the idea of something specifically intended for pressure fermentation. Awesome seeing you guys play with new ideas!

Schroeder’s Cider would be a great name for it!

Like you mentioned, I've seen this method being used in beer to do the equivalent of "lagering" at room temperature (instead of colder temps) and in a shorter amount of time (days vs weeks). I bought the equipment for 5 gallon batches a while ago, but never used it because I switched to doing meads/ciders and 1 gallon batches.

I believe that particular type of regulator is for Pressurizing and maintaining pressure by using an outside pressure source IE. the CO2 cartridge. You should be able to get one that will give you the set and forget idea that you were after. They just vent off the CO2 when it exceeds the pressure you have it set to. I think Kegland may have the info you need on that and I would use a floating pick up tube if you can find one that would work. They hang a waited pick up tube end from a float so that you pick up the product near the surface of your product. All the way until you hit the sediment. However, I am not sure if there is a floating pick up tube setup that will work with the narrow opening. That being said, I agree with you when it comes to cider I like to ferment, rack to the cage and force carbonate. That gives you a chance to make sure its what you want before you carbonate. Love your channel by the way.

One thing about fermenting under pressure that you kinda discussed during the intro. For cider specifically: if you sulfite your juice before fermentation, you will trap the free SO4 in the final product, which can smell like stinky eggs. Some of this will exit through your spunding valve during fermentation, but that is a case where you really should not be pressure fermenting as you need to degas.

this is a great video, the unscripted nature makes it even more fun 😀

This is a great video. The failure videos are a great way to save time and money.

So awesome

I don't remember where I saw it, but I saw a setup where a syringe was connected to the gas in-port of a ball lock quick disconnect valve to inject fluids into a keg under pressure. It was to add a fining agent, but it should work for any liquid. They also lowered the pressure; I believe it was around 5 psi. You should be able to inject a simple syrup, a tannin solution, or a tincture.

Reminds me of a time when I was young and the local grocery store did not rotate the local made cider(non alcohol) and some teens figured out the ones in back had a chance of being alcoholic. And later my brother when he was about 17 just added some yeast to cider(just screwing the cap back on hand tight) to make it faster.

Always use a spunding valve. Also keep the pressure off for the first 2 days and then let it build. Also an ale yeast should be kept below 12PSI. You lease retry with the feedback that has been given by others. It does work!

Started watching your videos and enjoying so far, you should try making kvass drink, its very popular eastern europe fermented drink from rye bread, i recently made mead with kvass, cant wait to try later on how it turned out

I have always regarded pressure fermentation in the category of "Sure you can, why would you want to?" I threw all my kegs away 10 years ago, more hassle than they are worth. If you are having problems with yeast viability, you can always keep a culture, it is not difficult. I have become a QA23 fan of late, maybe I just got a really good lot. I like 750 Belgians for bottling, You cannot blow them up. A bit expensive, but worth it.

something I learned recently is that chai tea spices are the same spices as mulling spices. when adding some tannins you substitute the black tea with chai (which is black tea as its base) to get mulled cider

very interesting video. probably going to create a lot of polarity hahaha. but a few pointers. 1) I've seen it already mentioned but look for an (adjustable) automatic pressure release valve. no more babysitting the bomb. 2) if the pressure is right the yeast shouldn't be stressed and no sulfur gasses should be produced. 3) if you want a controle, why don't you do a side by side comparesing with the normal method. Make 1 big batch and split it in half. One is presurised the other a regular fermentation (perhaps with back presurizing). Their will always be uncontrolable variables but it should even out most of them. looking forward to future experementation with this thing (sorry Derica)

You’re welcome on proofing the yeast… In my job we had pop-off valves that had different settings. A fifteen pound pop-off would work.

I have really been thinking about getting into pressurized fermentation. Thanks for the info great video. I have seen a device a guy had that would release when it hit a certain pressure, that might be something to look into. Thanks again!

Y’all crack me up!

The old saying KISS! keep it simple stupid, is so true.

If you do try this again with Kveik Voss yeast, you'll get more fruity notes from the yeast even under pressure. And yes it will indeed finish in a couple days if you ferment it warm, but it'll work just fine in the 60s-70s.

You guys are such a lovely couple, and I enjoy your content as a fellow home brewer from Turkey. I've seen many of your Cider themed videos but I think I never saw you guys reducing some of the applejuice by simply simmering for some time. I do this regularly to add more flavor. You could give it a chance. Just saying. Anyways great content as always. Lots of love from Turkey!

Very cool experiment. Looked through the comments and seeing interesting ideas. Can’t wait to see what you put together with this in the future. As far as the camera goes, TBH I doubt I would have noticed the change if you hadn’t pointed it out, but I think the quality is slightly better with the old camera. There is definitely a noticeable difference to me in the color rendering, and I think the clarity is also better on the old one.

I just retired this week, now I get to do what I really love. Get used to me.

i've been thinking of getting one of those canisters for years, i want to make homemade pop, i don't think i'd ferment in it, but it's an interesting idea.

Love the reaction @ 25:36. Like others have said, with a spunding valve, I'd see it being worth the investment. Working better for a psudo-lager.

If you're gonna try this all in one step, which I don't like for ciders, use a floating tube so you don't pick up the sediment on every pour. And use a pressure release valve so you can maintain a certain pressure.

I use a floating dip tube so that you’re pouring from the top of the keg. Also you could replace the PRV with a 15 psi one. I went from clear fermenters to a stainless one 3 months ago and found it tough to start with because I couldn’t see what was going on, but I just had to let go of that.

You have got to get a pressure relief valve, they now have them set at different pressures 12, 20, or whatever is available, that will keep it from going way too high in the container(PRV)

I make cider in a 50litre keg under pressure using a spunging valve. Left it for a month and i still had the egg smell and it wasnt clearing up. Ended up putting a bubbler on and leaving it another 2 weeks. It cleared up and the egg smell went away. Ended up tasting really good. Next time i think i will use the keg under atmospheric pressure and leave it till it clears.

You already got the spunding valve tip - but you would need another serving lid to apply it. What might work with your setup is to get another Pressure Release Valve, that releases pressure at lower psi. It looks like you have a grey prv- it releases at 100 psi. A red one for example should release at 35 psi.

Hi guys this was an awesome video/experiment. I need to try it. Off to Amazon to hunt down some new gadgets lol

Well, seeing how part of the objection is the sulfur smell (however light): tea leaves have between .08 to .20% sulfur. Sulfur is one of the 4 major groups that contribute to the aroma of black tea (heterocyclic compounds containing nitrogen, oxygen, and sulfur). So that could be a contributing factor as well. Overall, I agree with your conclusion: fermentation in a keg is just too labor intensive.

Love this, learn from our mistake approach. Sorry the brew wasn’t very good. .

Now that you have the spunding valve and floating dip tube, I hope you guys give this method another try. (with cider and beer)

If you have the spunding valve to auto dump the extra pressure, I can see this working really well for a sweet cider after 4 days of fermentation. Cold crash the whole keg to slow/stop the fermentation after 4 days and have an already carbonated drink that is sweet and around 3.5 to 4%

A floating dip tube will help with that northern brewer and others have them

Also all of the beer pressure fermentations they use a spunding valve, which allows you to set the pressure any excess is let out, also I think they let the most vigorous part of fermentation go with a blow off or an airlock, then they seal it for building pressure

This sounds like a NEW rabbit hole to throw money at! Me first! Me first!

I use a ferment Taurus same concept. Definitely use valve.. it’ll keep bleeding off the gases

I've learned more in the last three days from watching your channel then I have in the last five years; thank you so very much!

I was born in the USA (go ahead D, sing girl!), became an Australian over 35 years ago, married an Englishman and lived in Singapore for 7 years. So don't get me started on the English language ... I tell folks that in addition to French, German and Spanish I also speak 4 English dialects.

I've noticed I enjoy drinking my ciders more right after ferm stops, backsweeten with Belgium candied sugar, and maple syrup. (At about a 4 to 1 ratio - roughly) let it go for another day and drink it. (I brew 1 gal brews, so I'll drink a bit right after backsweeten, then let it go for a day and drink the rest over the next day or 2. (I keep it under airlock, don't even bottle. I have some Quart, and half gallon Mason Jars with airlock lids, so I can portion it out as I see fit. so I'll just pour from there when I'm ready to drink, as I'm not worried about o2 if I'm drinking immediately.i do rack with siphon to these vessels)) Not only do I enjoy the funkiness of fresh cider, I also enjoy the light carb from the full ferm. Idk. It's just what I've noticed I enjoy. Now that I'm thinking about it, it gives me what I want/like. I don't have to pasturize, stabilize, or bottle. If I don't get around to drinking it, it'll bubble away and get a bit more alcohol. Then I'll sweetn it again when I'm ready to drink it. Now, if I'm brewing something, I'm not planning on drinking, and I want to bottle it. My approach is way different. (Proper pasturizing, backsweetening, bottling when I know it's safe to do, and when the brew is where I want it. ( or think it'll be when I do want to drink it. If that makes any sense) Sorry for the novel. Thank you for all that you teach us. Yall are the best.

Hi, I think that the fact that you pour hers without the gas turned on may cause the difference in smells and flavor. Great job teaching people to do new and interesting stuff. ❤

My definition on American Apple Cider is that it is pressed and unfiltered. Apple Juice can be any juicing method and generally filtered. Then you got real apple cider, which is fermented and can be made out of any liquified apple. On a different note, pumpkin pie mead. Spices, pumpkin goop, honey, and water.

I have a theory about the smell/taste of the gases produceded. When you compleat the fermentarion, and then add the priming sugar (sucrose, wich is basically two glucoses) the yeast methabolism follows a simple pathway to generate CO2 and alcohol. The gases producede during the juice fermentation may be varieded, because the yeast uses diferent molecules from the juice, and can generate varieded gases, even if not under stress. Im a researcher in microbiology and methabolism, but im not 100% sure about what i said above, so maybe you could do a test and brew a kilju/sugar wash in the keg, to see if the gases taste normal idk

Cilantro tasted like soap to me but I learned how to use it so it adds an earthy quality to my food but doesn't stand out, and I'm not sure if it's something you can desensitise to over time or if my chemistry is changing as I get older, but seems like tolerance level changed. Thanks for the user review on the keg!

Always pour your blooming yeast back into your juice. Then poor the whole thing into your container. It mixes nicely, and no chance of killed yeast. The best part of this setup is you can now lager your cider under pressure. Use Saflager s-23 and chuck it in the fridge for 4-6 weeks. You will not get any of that Sulphur smell and be able to control the pressure much better.

You need a floating dip tube and the most important part is a Spunding Valve to control the pressure in the keg.

Don't forget to aerate my friend (OH you did, sorry!)! LOVE the kegging stuff, it's exciting. I started to keg last year and I wished u guys would too (at tha time), cus it would've been helpful to watch these videos about it to learn. Better late than never :) First I thought it would be too difficult but it's super simple!

Just sitting here yell “ NO THE YEAST” when he poured the yeast in lol

For me, hydrating the yeast is less about "getting it ready to pitch" and more about making sure it's a good healthy bit of yeast.

Taste is very subjective, and personal. I hate onions. The word "hate" is nowhere near strong enough to convey my feelings. If I had access to a genie, my first wish would be to make onions go away forever, and my second would be to ensure nobody could wish them back. But most people love them. Your average person walking around on the street literally equates onions with the word "flavor" such that food without onions have "no flavor" to them. Everyone is different, and that's ok. So long as you don't feel the need to force others to like something they hate: it's all good. I'm glad she was able to express herself assertively, and without reservation. It shows how healthy the relationship is with regard to personal choices. It was so wholesome how hurt he felt when he thought she was suggesting he wasn't being receptive to her opinion. He couldn't even bear the thought that maybe he inadvertently came across as unsupportive. Relationship goals.

You can get pressure relief valves for those. Set them to 12-14lbs and you're all set

"Is this true?" "Yes it's true." "This brew has no body." (cue scuffle) Seriously, though, I'm sorry things didn't pan out like you two were hoping. Learning sometimes requires things to go wrong, as you already know. I have no doubt you'll make an amazing brew on the next attempt.

Could you siphon your pasteurized fermented cider or mead into the keg, sweeten to taste and caronate under pressure, then lower to serving pressure? I think these have a future on your channel to avoid the bottle bunker risk, low repeatability without non fermentable sugars. I truly appreciate this video. I've watched your channel for almost a year, fermented over 8 gal of ciders. This is where my head went, deep into research and then next morning RU-vid said you already did it! I'm looking forward to follow up videos

Hi I'm new to the channel I was just wondering y'all keep talking about the the funk and the smell and aftertaste the process have y'all tried the same recipe in your traditional Brewing Manor and how did it turn out if so

Id guess, that with Beer, they would use a much larger sized Keg, which probably would have took a LOT longer to come up to a high pressure level. I see you mentioned an "adjustable relief value" which I didnt know about. That said, this is sort of why I mentioned the idea about trying an Insta-Pot pressure cooker... as they have an automatic weighed "Release" mechanism. I do not think it allows for any more than 15 psi, before the pressure is able to lift the weight, and allow excess pressure to escape.

If you were pushing the pH the extra carbonation will lead to carbonic acid. So in theory that could make the yeast a little less happy. But you are nowhere near the limits of pH with apple cider. SkeeterPee on the other hand would be a scenario when it may not be ideal. And koodos to leaving your mistakes in. Accidentally adding the yeast to hot tea is a very logical mistake for people to make, and it’s a great opportunity to show how to adapt.

Wondering if you could replace the dispenser and gauge, with a weighted 10# pressure cooker float.

You guys should try making a persimmon mead since it’s coming into the season for them I think it would be fantastic

As a kid, I had one of these plastic cider jugs that we got, drank one glass of and then left sit in the back of the fridge for about 2 months. When I grabbed it out of the fridge, the plastic jug had inflated and it was fizzy and the entire thing was a delightful and perfectly sweet alcoholic(i later learned after having a giggle fit) cider. Only a slight buzz off it, but the entire flavor stuck with me to today - Makes me wonder how hard it would be to kickstart a natural ferment like that without it going awry.

When you guys force carb in that keg, do you leave the valve for the co2 tank open wile it sits in the fridge or so you put it to pressure and shut the valve off and open as needed durring the