Honestly at the end of the day it is just fiction. As long as they're not telling you how to feel about something (like pushing an ideology) and allow you to make up your own mind, I feel like you can enjoy anything. Putting things into perspective, understanding flawed characters etc.
These are both my favorite series of all time. The thing that makes Rudeus so interesting is that he goes from the shittiest person known to man to a genuinely better person. While Rudeus is in many ways still a creep, you want to root for him because you want him him to be better and you feel bad for him. Most anime have cookie cutter characters that are fairly generic but every once in a while they may have a flaw or something interesting that makes them more human. I can only describe Mushoku Tensei as the most "human" feeling anime. It's not just another generic isekai power fantasy, it's a show about humans having flaws and trying to better themselves and continue forward however they can. I'm sure for many the beginning is really tough to get through, but you are better off for it as the show continues and you see every character develop and get passed their flaws and mistakes. Edit: I'm realizing another series that is similar to this that is in kind of the same realm is BoJack Horseman, many of the characters are horrible people, and especially BoJack who is narcissistic and always does bad things to people and wallows in self-pity and the pity of others. You can always tell he wants to change, and makes slow progression in doing so, but eventually he chooses to take two steps forward and go on a journey to self-improve himself and take responsibility for what he has done.
@@weeaboo7050 Yeah, I really wish there were more people who could get past the tough beginning to this show to experience how amazing it becomes. Can't wait for next season!
The trans episode of south park is actually offensive af and they just did the "I identify as..." Conservative hack joke but somehow. Some fucking how that episode still managed to be HILARIOUS. I don't agree with it but they at least had something creative and absurd to say and I can respect that at least. And they also had done some amazing things like that episode about Randy saying the N-Word lmao that last line about Stan never going to understand the feeling of hearing that word as a white dude was very real and empathetic.
Yes, and ironically that may be because of the professionally offended constantly claiming that EVERYTHING was "problematic" to the point, like this video was about, eventually got so obnoxious it moved to *fictional characters* while the preaching censorship of media (and people) literally became their entire life Even the word "problematic" has become so intertwined with losers that want to "cancel" whatever they dislike (while they admit 50 shades of grey is one of their favorite books in a personal anecdote I saw on X) it's sad. I just hope with the backlask we don't get a liveleak 2.0 and EVERYTHING is accepted because people are tired of being told whats subjective is now suddenly objective "just cause"
Interesting topic for a video! Of course you're allowed to enjoy "problematic" media. Just like it's ok if you don't. What's **not** ok is to think it's acceptable to re-enact it in the real world. Nor do I think it's ok to shit on people who enjoy media _you_ find problematic. I believe there's a weird bias against animated works depicting "problematic" things versus live actions. As another commentor mentioned, Game of Thrones depicted some very... bad things. Using real people. But no one blinked an eye there. War and brutal murders, racial tensions and mistreatment, rampant misogyny, forced... relations. But all of that was, collectively I suppose, just fine. The books were worse. But all of those things are very _human_ . That's what we have done since forever, and will likely do forever hence. It's not right, and we've progressed tremendously; but those are marks on our history and we're susceptible to repeat them. And those elements can make for some great drama and opportunities for tremendous story telling and character progression. Refusing to acknowledge the dark, but very real, parts of humanity does not make for a compelling narrative or allow for believable growth. Facing and coming to terms with those hard-to-swallow, unbareable moments and aspects of a story or character(s) is what allows for organic growth and evolution, in addition to opening up opportunities for interesting and complex narrative threads or aspects to world. But there's a balance that needs to be reached in storytelling: do these acts need to be overly graphic, blatant or overdone? No. And, indeed, it often wears thin to keep having deplorable acts shown or told in graphic detail over and over again. But should they be omitted entirely from stories and media because they upset people? Also no.
I think that bias is definitely a thing. Maybe it’s because live action shows don’t treat it in a comedic manner like an anime or cartoon typically would? Either way with all this stuff my tried and true rule of thumb is “if you’re going to do it, have a point to it”. Very well said, by the way
@@Totaraum > “if you’re going to do it, have a point to it” - Exactly. As the great Jeff Goldblum once said in the OG Jurassic Park, if anyone else on here is even old enough to understand the reference: "You were so preoccupied by whether or not you could, you didn't stop to consider whether or not you should." I'll retort to your theory that displaying "problematic" things comedically is where it becomes "bad." I'll even go out on a limb and say that presenting mature themes and dark subject matter in a comedic or light-hearted manner *CAN*, not always, act as an effective vessel to deliver core themes or character development in a way that's easy for any given consumer to understand and digest. I've seen children books that talk about a parent being in rehabilitation programs for alcohol/substance abuse. I've seen Saturday morning cartoons that broach the topic of racism. And those pieces of media are often hailed and raved about (which they should be, to be clear). It's my belief, and from looking through the other excellent comments I think I'm not alone, that there are several factors and tolerances that people account for when deciding whether something is "problematic" (god am I getting tired of writing that word). How often does the gag get repeated? How metaphorical or artistically is the thing presented? Does it help drive narrative or characters or reinforce themes? How graphic was it presented/described? And even here, I think that there are certain levels within those factors that change the threshold depending on the thing being depicted. In summary: I think it's all vastly dependant on the person/people consuming the media. For _me_ with regards to Mushoku Tensei, Rudy doing bad things repeatedly is his character. And that's the metric with which to measure growth. As he stops doing those things because he learns those are bad and develops empathy for people, especially women, that's growth. Is it uncomfortable and cringe to watch? Yeah. But I think it's a part of the narrative that's critical for showing the character and growth of our protagonist. Are the events in Goblin Slayer (if you know, you know) necessary? No. I can _infer_ those events happen by having the author/animator employing descriptions of victims and building some lore about how goblins procreate. I don't need to see it happen. It doesn't make me hate the goblins any more than if that fact was mentioned in passing world-building dialogue. I know the golden rule is "show, don't tell," but there are limits and I respect artists *more* when they find ways of painting a vivid picture in my mind with metaphor and dialogue. Do the deaths in Re:Zero need to be as violent as they are? Yes, because it adds to the stakes of situations and helps add to the tone and image of the show. Most are even plot-relevant and help drive the narrative forward _because_ of how/when/where they happened. That's all *my* personal take on things, and I'm not a bad person for not vilifying every portrayal of bad/gruesome thing in every media ever. Neither are you if you don't feel the same as someone else consuming the same thing. Understand that fiction is fiction, and reality is reality. Don't do the bad shit you see/read/hear and be kind to yourself and to others. Fill the world with love. Thanks for coming to my TED talk.
@@Shuttuko I should rewatch Jurassic park some day lol, great film. I think the South Park examples I shared in the video do a great job making light of terrible situations while having a point to it. It’s just that it’s something you can’t comprehend as such from a glance, and that’s probably why the comedic take has a bad reputation. Could be wrong, but that seems like the difference maker to me. I appreciate your ted talk, I think if you wanted to you could make very good videos or articles
@@Totaraum > " I think the South Park examples I shared in the video do a great job making light of terrible situations while having a point to it." Absolutely. I apologize if my comments inferred otherwise. And I appreciate your kind words very much. I couldn't do what you do. You're a stronger man than I. I'm too socially awkward and nervous to make vids or articles. As the great Pawn Stars guy once said: "Best I can do is a RU-vid comment or discord message dialogue." ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
@@Shuttuko you’re all good, also I understand feeling anxiety about putting stuff out there, everyone feels it for sure. My trick is I imagine quantitative visualizations of how nervous I feel versus how passionate I am about sharing my work with the world, and the latter always beats the former, making my choice obvious every time. It’s scary but also exceedingly rewarding. It’s fine to not be ready now, but if you have the desire it’s worth putting the effort in to take one step closer to your goal every day, at least that’s what I think
Episode 1 wasn't actually problematic though. It depicted goblins as vile irredeemable monsters that need to be exterminated. But a bunch of Twitter users freaked out because they assumed the existence of rape in the show meant it was porn fetishizing violence against women.
Always thought there was a magic to South Park that made it popular in spite of its savory takes, and you managed to articulate it pretty much perfectly
Good video! I like the discussion of whether problematic characters can still be appreciated as well written in their world. The title worked to get me to click, but I mostly clicked for the South Park icon. I wish you would have put Rudy in the thumbnail, I had no idea MT was getting covered in this video. I had a similar experience to your first time watching the show, and this video encouraged me to give it another shot.
I try to justify a lot of Rudy’s actions by trying to empathize with him. This “man” has for all intents and purposes died in highschool and never really grew up. He’s socially inept because he was a hikikomori for like 10 years. It’s not a foolproof way to justify his actions, but as he gets older, closer to his old age, and his love interests become more mature (this is a series that spans Rudy’s entire life,) we see him become the man he always could have been with enough support. He still does inexplicably creepy shit though. #burnthepantyshrine
True Rudy’s life got fucked in high school. One of the many reasons I like isekai is cause one way or another the show basically says: “ Fuck Real Earth!”
You don't need a 20 minute video to answer the question, the answer is, like whatever you want no matter how dark it is it's just bad if you're exposed to it at a young age because that will shape your views otherwise if you know what's wrong then that's what makes satire funny!!!
The erectile dysfunction arc broke me but good take overall! Hearing that another isekai'd character shows up later makes me intrigued to pick it up again...
The trick to enjoying South Park is usually to figure out what it's actually mocking. For example, I'm in favor of measures to protect the environment, but (and I assume this is the case for most people) I think the key lies in practical local actions like building new parks or making recycling easier, not in celebrities trying to scare people into thinking the world is going to end in ten years unless we change everything about the modern life, patting themselves on the back for doing so and implying that is the only acceptable approach that anyone who cares about the cause should take. Manbearpig is criticizing that type of cringey activism and, if you realize that, you can appreciate regardless of your stance on climate change.
Usually when people say something is problematic, it's because they haven't seen the thing and are over reacting. Look at made in abyss. It has a minute and a half of questionable stuff thought out the whole show (not counting gore, that's not problematic). But people still paint the whole show as evil because of it. Or maybe I'm just desensitized. Who knows.
Actually, my first thought for problematic media was "Game of Thrones" considering its on-screen and off-screen depictions of some rather hot-button themes and topics with real actors and actresses. Honestly, "South Park" is really not problematic and hasn't been for awhile, mostly because its initially controversy was because that kind of thing had not been seen before on television much (if at all, much less ANIMATED television). The last time they got in TRUE hot water was the 200 and 201 controversy concerning the depiction of Mohammad. But aside from that, any time someone gets pissy over "South Park," it's usually a nothing burger since the show is just acknowledged as being grotesque and having a sardonic commentary edge to most of its stuff. It's collectively understood to have more operating beyond its jokes. As far as "Mushoku Tensei," the series seems rather preoccupied with the idea of sexual humiliation, and having that serve as the vehicle for character development. The ED arc, Rudeus in his old life being tied up naked and mockingly called "pencil dick," nearly having sex with Eris after the dance scene, etc. Coupled with his inclination to be perverted, especially in the beginning, THIS I think is the thing that a lot of people who don't like "MT" actually feel, but can't quite articulate. The extent to which it indulges is what turns people off.
Haven’t seen game of thrones so I can’t comment on that, but it did pop into my head while thinking about this video. I had to remind myself not to bring it up because I hadn’t seen it lol. When it comes to Mushoku I don’t know if anyone takes issue with the humiliation aspect of it. Me and the people I know who have watched it are just like “man that’s embarrassing” and then move on to the next scene. The stuff that makes the skin crawl is rudeus creeping on every girl he meets, regardless of age. And when he isn’t the relationships he gets into feel kinda wrong, even if you can appreciate the characterization and emotional weight they add to the story
@@Totaraum One slight addition to what I said earlier - ALL media, problematic or not, is contextually driven, both in terms of what goes into making it, how the individual parts interweave, and how you receive it both at the time and in the aftermath. So the idea of "Can you enjoy problematic media" is a thorough "Yes, absolutely," but that naturally doesn't mean that all problematic media gets a free pass.
People dont even know " problematic " media. I think some people like to find stuff to be angry about and virtue signal blah blah etc. If you want some "problematic " media look into literature. Bret Easton Ellis, Marqis de Sade, Alyssa Nutting, Hubert Shelby Jr, Chuck Palahniuk, I could go on for days When you go to the extreme of not allowing the full range of human morality to be explored, you cannot get the bigger picture the artist has intended. Simply put labeling media as problematic and aiming to silence it is silencing expression, and not allowing us to collectivy explore the depths of the human soul/mind. If you dont like it, dont watch/read/watch it. Excellent video, from your kyoto animation simp phase to your social commentary, it's been great 👍
10:55 To me as a "degenerate pervert" myself, I didn't find Rudeus annoying. I think, I already expected some kind of soft hentai, and I wasn't disappointed, since it even had a proper plot.
All I can say about MT is, if you’re keeping up with it right now, Turning Point 3 just happened and things are about to take a drastic turn this Sunday. Happy Father’s Day!
Thank you so much. I'm so sick of YT commentators writing off (at least modern) South Park as alt-right propaganda. This is such a brilliant and hilarious show even when Matt and Trey are wrong. And say what you will about them and their libertarian politics, but they've never had even the tiniest real scandal over their personal lives in 25+ years. And they've never sold out South Park, even now that they're near billionaires, they still strive to keep the show the same vehicle for celebrity satire and absurdist humor its always been at its core. And remember, politics is just Hollywood for ugly people.
Being a lover of South Park and MT, I have to say first off, the definition of problematic is very murky. Culture and context play a huge role, certain things turn problematic over time (depictions of racial stereotypes in old Disney cartoons for example). Anyone offended by South Park is an imbecile to me, and people know by now that there's no defeating Matt & Trey. In the case of MT, the LN treats the sexualization differently, not to mention it is literally part of Rudy's backstory and one of the things that exists for the purposes of character development. Rudy's whole arc is about redemption and positive personal change. He starts like the worst human ever, a NEET, a 2chan browsing neckbeard, he was jacking it to porn every day, his character starts off very flawed. People simply don't get to the parts where he improves little by little, it's a shame. He has PTSD and has to figure out how to live after years of not really doing so, that takes time and more importantly, effort and work. Plus, it's a god damn LN and anime, it ain't Redo of a Healer bruh.
Idk,didn't he jerk of to his niece or something.Ive read up to him fighting badigadi at his school,and bro has not been sentenced to death for being a pedo,so I'd say it's a bit too late at this point
I’m autistic and South Park has been my hyperfixation for years. Seen every episode 4 times minimum- I’ve played trough tsot at least 8 and tfbw at least 3 times. I’ve probably poured hundreds of hours of my life into phone destroyer. I’m one of those people who has a Kyle shrine in my room- and yeah- a lot of people are turned off by it. The show dosent even have the same the sense of humor I do. I just think it’s kind of crazy that some people won’t even talk to me because I like a problematic peace of media. (Or it could be the level I’m obsessed with it but I have friend who have the same thing for demon slayer, breaking bad, and warriors cats and that never seems to scare anyone away for them so I don’t think that’s it)
I do agree but i disagree about the use of stereotypes i love those types of jokes especially since it’s at this era it was more tasteful and the joke is how wrong it is not the like some older 50s cartoons and jokes i think it’s more tasteful than black face but that’s just me, i personally enjoy some racially insensitive humour but im not racist i just like the jokes you know, Also ill say that you may not find some of the jokes funny but others might, but i think it’s a red flag if someone wouldn’t want to be your friend because you watch south park
It's the same thing with music too. It seems like every artist or band has done something wrong at some point. And therefore by listening to their work you are as bad as them. Bro who cares at this point if it's really bad 1. separate the music from the artist or 2. we can forgive some mistakes, especially if we had nothing to do with it in the first place.
I hear that Little Busters soundtrack there! Would love to see a video about it sometime, I'm through nearly every route of the VN and it's shaping up to be one of my favorite Key works. For me, a big part of enjoying (or not) a piece of media with problematic elements is whether they're being used to say something meaningful--about life, its characters, the human condition, or whatever. To build on the reference to A Song of Ice and Fire in another comment, it certainly has elements like that (though funny enough, not as many as its reputation might suggest) which are used very carefully as a tool for worldbuilding and commentary on morality. How other characters respond to atrocities committed in the story tells us about who they are as a person and why they do what they do. Also, importantly, they frequently happen offscreen. Textual evidence makes it clear Martin isn't reveling in the story's seedier elements or writing them purely for the readers' gratification, they're there because their presence in the setting clearly establishes a tone which sets the story apart from its peers. If you remove the nasty shit from Westeros, the characters' motivations and the setting no longer work. A lot of anime, unfortunately, struggles with this. Problematic elements are frequently there only for titillation and excused by "it's anime, of course they have to have underage pantyshots!" Most of the time it's just padding that could be removed with no consequence. Personally, no matter how profound a story is, if I have to wade through several scenes of the writer's loli scat snuff fetish to get there, I'm probably not going to think it's worth it.
I feel so left out of all these comments referencing game of thrones lmao, but I can agree with the anime part. I’m glad you’re enjoying little busters, one of these days I should go back to the visual novel but for now 3 or 4 tracks from it have just become a staple for the channel
@@Totaraum Fair enough, it's a very solid soundtrack! And it's certainly worth revisiting, though of course don't feel obligated to do it just for the content. Gives me a similar overall vibe to Clannad but with the focus on building bonds with a close-knit friend group rather than family.
@@ThePhantomSquee it definitely focuses on a different kind of bond, but it’s a bond all the same. There are many ways in which it differentiates itself from other Key works that I adore. I don’t think it’s anywhere near on clannad’s level though in terms of quality lol
I think that unless someone is watching a ww2 movie and roughing for the germains I dont see a problem with someone watching mushoku tensei, I think its an evil thing to force people to not watch something you dont like, forcing writters to bend the knee will make everything safe and lame just like every marvel movie, and I dont really care what people think, good video btw
I don't really like framing the question around problematic media in this way, but i understood why you've said it and overall i think this was a good video. You explained yourself well. But to me wether you should or shouldn't engage with problematic media is always down to personal taste. I'm trans and asian, i think South Park's jokes about asians are super funny! I love the "city" chicken and yaoi episode where salary men are singing karaoke about tweek and craig and the guy suddenly yelled "GANBARO IRASHAI!!!", but alot of thier trans jokes are kinda lazy 👎and just not funny. I'm not opposed to laughing at trans people but there's gotta be more of a joke beyond woman has dick. but I'm not a die hard fan and haven't seen every episode so maybe they do something more, i'm not sure. But you knwo some people might feel differently and that's ok. Also studio bind did Oniimai, another problematic show that is regardless loved by many trans people. But hell who am I to take that away from them, if they can look past the icky elements and still find joy and meaning in that show good for them.
I've noticed I have an incredible tolerance for problematic media as long as it's well written, like i can easily look past the problematic shit. I don't know if that makes me a bad person.
@@Totaraum Yea, I would like to think I have at least a little self awareness lol. Also kinda related to problematic media, have you seen or read Made in Abyss? It often gets (what I think is undeserved) hate because of some of the scenes.
@@Totaraum Damn, personally I was hooked after that last scene in episode one. I don't know if I should tell you to finish s1 but I will say that things do ramp up after the arc you dropped it at.
i heavily disagree about south park being the best western cartoon. its got some really top notch episodes here and there, but its quality has been very iffy throughout. i think this is kinda like saying one piece is the best anime lol. both shows have incredibly high highs but also have awful low lows. south park has also always been on the lower end of the scale when it comes to major elements you watch cartoons for... animation and voice acting. which i get it there's less of a focus on quality when it comes to those elements in the west, but there are still plenty of examples that rival the best anime over here. avatar, adventure time, gravity falls, steven universe, owl house, invincible, hell even rick and morty has really solid animation sometimes. all of these shows strongly deliver in one way or another and make themselves stand out amongst most western cartoons. south park has strong elements to it too, but its not even close to "best" for me. sorry if i come off too strongly here, this is really just a mild nitpick more than anything. you should check out any of those shows if they vaguely interest you tho!!!!!! as far as mushoku tensei goes, i really appreciate it for its strong visual style and writing. i personally believe that it has some of the strongest character writing of any isekai. i think rudeus isnt exactly perfectly written as a character, but i think as a protagonist he stands out and really makes us question what we're willing to forgive and if people like him are actually capable of growing and changing. in that way i appreciate how mushoku basically challenges the viewer, but i totally understand why some people don't vibe with it.
The difference between of "trust me this anime is good besides..." And south park is SP it's a comedy and usually that anime wanted to take itself "serious "
Imo the difference between south park and mushoku is that the shitty characters in south park are supposed to be laughed at as satire. Mushoku consistently reward rudy and other shitty people for their shitty actions. I definitely think media should discuss problematic ideas - but letting "boys be boys" isnt gonna sit with me
I think the problem with MT and a lot of media is how the characthers are treated in the meta.You know joffrey from GOT is an asshole,so they tease you until we get his brutal death.But MT never has that with rudeus,we never get the chris hansen "take a seat" moment,and ive heard that reading author interviews only makes this worse.
