Can You Trust Your Framing Square? Valley Jack Mistake 

You are my version of Mr Hart. Thank you for your very special channel. Any son on the face of this planet would be proud to call you his friend and father Please keep churning out this invaluable content sir.

Your humility is unsurprising, Scott, but still appreciated and valued. Yet again you provide life lessons to us that extend beyond the subject that you are ostensibly covering.

Love it my man. I'm a HS teacher that truly knows math. This is the stuff of legends that teaches math as life not math as theory.

What an honorable man. Your value extends far beyond youtube and carpentry. Thank you for this episode.

In a world filled with calculators, it's still nice to know how to do things the old fashion way.

Nobility is not being superior to your fellow man, its being superior to your former self. -Ernest Hemingway. Brilliant demonstration of that fact right here.

You are a great example of lifelong learning. And what a wonderful tribute to your mentor.

Scott you were so right about Neil Hart. As you know Dixonville would have never been the great place to grow up without Neil and Betty. Each of us that grew up there are better because of their influences. Thank you for reminding me of the Harts and keep up the great work.

My paternal grandfather was a master carpenter, his son (my dad) a pretty fair amateur. Just wish I’d spent more time and attention to the things they were trying to teach me. But, my father-in-law (also a excellent master carpenter, millwright, contractor and perfectionist) was shocked when I (a licensed, professional engineer) pulled out a hand saw and successfully made a quick cut. The look on his face was just so satisfying. I still have many of grandpa’s tools and admit I don’t use them often or anywhere near as good as he did but they represent something really special to me - those days as a young boy, sitting alongside him on the front porch and listening to him talk to friends and neighbors. On this Fathers’ Day, I miss all three so much and appreciate their example and things they taught me.

Best Carpenters chanel I have ever watch This man is a great teacher for anyone wanting to learn how to build a house

Great episode! As an engineer I’ve had to analyze and solve a lot of problems. Sometimes the hardest thing is challenging your base assumptions, but often times that is where the greatest lesson resides.

I learn about human character from Essential Craftsman. Well done, sir.

SCOTT!! Thank you for this!! I caught this error in the Dewalt framing book as well. They said the same thing! I was like NOOOO!! it's ALWAYS a 45 with equally pitched hip roofs. This is for HANDSAW use only!!!

Man what I wouldnt give to have you as my neighbor. Ive kept up with you from very early on. And Im so glad I found you. Thank you for everything you have brought to the online world in the last several years.

You my man could have been teacher or something in your past life cause when you r describing something it just clicks with me and makes all the sense in the world

You have to love a guy who is willing to admit he’s mistake and will take the time to explain it. Don’t just sit there, keep up the good work! 😊

You are one of my youtube heroes. Thanks for passing on knowledge.

As a 30 something without a dad or even granddad to teach me these things I appreciate what you bring to the world. I'm very much self taught but always open to new ideas and advice. Ive gotten a lot out of your channel over the years. I appreciate of late you have begun mentioning folks like Jordan Peterson and some others. As a man in this world, its a tough gig. Blokes like you make it a bit easier. Thanks for everything

My grandfather was a roofing Carpenter & worked 10 yrs past retirement. Many nice things were learnt, but outside work wasn't a good idea. He built a lathe for turning wood & I'm about to do a similar thing. Lots of good ideas for people as carpenters.

Side cut length of jack rafters is still a handy table! For hips/valleys if you times it by 4, thats your out of square for a plywood pattern. You can also use it for when you have an overhang soffit coming down a roof using it the way you did as 8.5/12. Not exactly everyday things definitely helpful though.

Great example of how two things can be correct. Scott’s not wrong, the answer just changes as the tools at hand change.

It is a rare man that can call a foul on himself and highlight a mistake. Bravo!

Neil Hart sounds like a super guy. Great to hear that he was involved in Scouting...a program that is near and dear to my heart.

How do you handle negativity in your life? Kill it with kindness! Thank you for the much needed lesson.

I have been doing this for 35 years goes to show you can teach a old dog new tricks thank you

I hope to shake your hand some day. You have inspired me for years, and I will be watching for as long as you make videos. I look up to you as an elder, a man, father and, well as a craftsman. Your videos are always more than a simple how to DIY, and I look forward to a life lesson from you, sir. Nate you do a wonderful job in your videos and with the editing, I am excited to see your house journey, as well as your journey in life with a thriving family around you. Thank you both for your continued honesty, humility and knowledge. Keep up the good work!

I either forgot or didn't know you were a fellow Oregonian. No wonder your carpentry knowledge & mine align so much, I got a 5-6 yr earlier start, (late '60's), but only about 100 miles north of you, in Lebanon. I can't call the 2nd gen carpenter I worked for a mentor since his teaching style was 'pay attention to what I'm doing & be able to do it when I tell you to.' It was exactly like his positive reinforcement policy; non existent. Fortunately, I also worked w/ my 3rd gen carpenter step-dad until lung cancer got him in '75, he had teaching & positive feedback enough for 3-4 people. Did learn how to cuss in very creative ways by the other guy, especially when he'd mis-cut a rafter! Many years later, (mid '90's), the guy I worked for came to Portland, where I was just finishing a recording studio. A career crowning acheivement, I invited him to the 90% complete job site. His son, 6yrs younger & who'd worked w/ us as a teen, was bailing me out on a couple of aspects where subs had flaked on me, so the visit was dual purpose; see his son, see the job. The next day, the son said to me, 'Wow, the old man was really impressed w/ the studio. Never heard say as much about anybody or any job as he did about you.' 'Really?', thinking he'd perhaps changed in his later years of life, (I hadn't worked for him for 30+ yrs). 'What'd he say?' Without cracking a smile, he answered, 'He did a pretty good job on that studio.' LOL... what our generation has done to break that cycle & keep the younger generations from experiencing THAT is hard to explain. Even if you were lucky w/ & had a true mentor, you surely know of what I speak. GeoD

Where this top cut mark is important, is when you have a large valley or jack that you need to cut with a circular saw. Just as Scott showed, you mark the the top, scribe your jack rafter all the way around. On a 12/12 pitch, the top cut is not 45 degrees. Use your framing square side cut measurements to find the value for the tongue side of the square. When you cut 2 by material with a skill saw, you don’t need this side cut measurement. With much wider material, you do. If you are using a 7 1/4” saw you can’t cut much more than about 2” of material. I once cut a large valley glue lam that was about 7” wide by 26” deep. I scribed all the way around and cut as deep as my skill worm drive would go. Then I finished up with a sawzall. Cutting with a 8 point crosscut saw like Scott showed divides the men from the boys! I once was in a old court building in Ogden Utah (2018). In the attic, you could see a 10/12 hip roof with large hips and jack material. 4 x 14 hips and 4 x 12 rough sawn jacks. All hand cut. The building was constructed in the 1880s or 1890s. I looked in amazement at the jack cuts and how well they mated up to the hip. Great respect for some long dead carpenter(s)! Beautiful work. I showed the young carpenters with me the work and they were unimpressed, I couldn’t make them see how hard it was to do such a beautiful hand sawn job!

I remember that episode, and thinking that didn't sound right. Nice correction. One thing I would add is that the side-cut formula is still helpful when marking and cutting hips at the ridge, as they need to be marked and cut from both sides. On a low slope 45º with a speed square works, but as the pitch increases so does the angle across the crown side of the rafter. The saw is still set to 45º, but where to make that cut changes.

Always love the way you choose your vocabulary, and the fact that you actually think, along with the wisdom that is constantly a part of everything you do. I would like to repay the favor and show you something, but, I would like to ask you one question first: If I told you something absolutely unbelievable, would you... A: ask me to explain better and provide evidence B: consider me a crazy fool

Never to old or proud to learn!

Great video mate. Well explained and full respect for taking the time to show how you rectify the past video . A true craftsman never stop learning . Cheers mate from Australia 🇦🇺

Well said, it's a very proud and humble person who can admit a mistake, in this case to the world. Our trade needs more guys like you

You are an inspiration to tradesmen.

My uncle a man whom I revered once told me. A man who can admit a mistake take responsibility for that mistake and correct the mistake is a true craftsman.

Learned how to use the rafter tables on a square to write my red seal carpentry exam other than that I have rarely used them.

What a great story of your connection with an elder! I really appreciate your ability to continue Neil’s legacy through this channel. I’m sure I am one of many who would have benefited from a Neil in our young life. But we’re never too old to learn from others.

My hat is off to you Scott. Keep up the good work and remember it's never to late to learn a new trick.

Thank you for explaining your thoughts and methods. As I learned carpentry from a master and a masters master, my dad and grandad, I truly understand about not giving up what you were taught. But as my grandad used to say, if someone can't learn from someone else, they are a fool. He also said he was never wrong, but he could be technically incorrect on occasion . He used to say a framing square was generally smarter than half the people using them. For a chunk of metal, it is a pretty smart little gadget, if you know how to ask the questions.

I love your heart lessons and your humble attitude Sorry that some one would trash a humble soul.

I so respect a man with humility. Thanks for your continued videos. Inspiring and educational.

So what I learned today - God Bless Circular Saws! 🙂

I'm glad you corrected the error. I'm not so glad someone had to point out the error with a scathing comment rather than a gentle rebuke. A very classy way to handle both sir!

There is a use for this! Cutting mitered fascia tails in place, going off of a plumb cut rafter if you put your speed square on a 45 and try to transfer heel (short point) of the miter to the toe (longpoint of the miter) across the top edge of the board from back face to the front face and then mark your plumb cut. Because as you explained it Is a compound miter your pencil mark will not be a true 45. You would do this so you could cut your miter in place from the front face of the fascia with a circular saw referencing off of where the back face meets the plumb cut of the rafter.

Watching a guy cut a rafter, with a handsaw, wearing a smart watch. Technology has changed a bit

You're an incredibly honorable man. You're a true example of integrity and morality. God bless you and your family 🙏😇 Excellent videos as always 🙏

When being “wrong” all those years meant still doing it right. Your an honorable man! Happy Fathers Day, y’all.

Greetings from up the road and down the way! We enjoy hearing about Betty and Neil. They were the best folks. I remember Neil parents and his care for them as they aged in place. Thank you for keeping their memory alive. That store was the center of the community in many ways. All those ways brought out the best in us.

Thank you for your honesty, we can learn from almost everyone!

There is a lot to love about the maths involved with roofing. Its good to know how to get all the angles, and its good to know the rules of thumb and the shortcuts for those angels. Knowing the right way will get you a good result if you are careful enough, but a lot of roofing can be simplified and a lot of human error taken out. Which really does matter, because people will cut roofs on the ground based on maths because the labor involved otherwise is extreme. There are roofs that test your skills, and where you cant rely on shortcuts, in those situations knowing how to draw out all the angles is great, but it seems the industry doesnt expect that, trusses or detail drawings are pretty common.

"If you use a hand saw very much, you are going to have a *powerful* right arm." Yes. For a few years anyway, until your joints are destroyed. I truly admire the hard workers of old, who did what they had to with the tools and procedures available to them, and achieved such impressive results. I'm a carpenter who stays in excellent physical condition via hard work, and I intend to still be capable of hard work when I'm 70. For me, "work smarter, not harder" means that highly repetitive motions are minimized (though not eliminated). Nail gun, not hammer. Power saw, not hand saw. Dig with a machine, not all day by hand. Also, the more dangerous tasks are minimized (though not eliminated). Less trips up the ladder. Work from scaffolding instead of ladders. Move big/heavy things with a machine, not 5 people, even if less efficient. Etc. I'm not trying to tell anyone how to run their jobsite. It's an individual decision, there is no one right answer for everyone. I am only encouraging everyone to think both short-term *and* long-term when considering the balance between safety and efficiency. (And no, I didn't write this as an argument with Scott. I'm merely using his statement as an excuse to mention a perspective which I think isn't mentioned enough by tradesmen.)

as always, just great! I grew up learning from a 90 year old man in a woodshop. 1976, Mr. Maurer. thank you!

Even if I were absolutely positive about offering a correction to a professional I'd still frame it as a question for two reasons. One, I've been wrong many times and there's nothing more embarrassing than asserting a falsehood as fact. Two, asserting anything rarely receives a thoughtful response like the one we have here in this video. Internet anonymity emboldens people of weak character to say things in a way they would never say face to face.

Sir, I learn stuff from you on your channel all the time - not all of it is carpentry and construction. Thank you for all you do! You are appreciated. God Bless!!

It’s so great to see the old school ways of making complex cuts.

My late dad was a carpenter of 40 yeears...I'm sure he would have been proud to have you on his jobsite.

Good to see you using the hand saw. I recently acquired (when we cleaned out my parents house) my great grandfather's Henry Disston saw that is over 125 years old. Keep up the good work!

Well done and very special coming from someone who is a teacher to many of us out here in internet land. Thanks for sharing.

Great stuff man, just remember when we don't do this shit everyday like cutting rafters on a dormer, or framing up a dutch hip. It's hard to be perfect, And when we're doing this kind of work if we're not making a mistake here and there we ain't doing nothing. As always thanks

Greatly appreciated!

There is Great value in having a working grasp at least of the theory behind why things work. Even if for efficiency or convenience those things are never applied grossly they are underpinning the work.

Humility month. You’re a legend Scott.

Basic or maybe intermediate question: give that construction grade dimensional lumber has rounded edges, when carrying a mark around a corner, do you try to compensate for where the mark would be on an imaginary sharp edge? Any tips on that? Going for

just met you and appreciate what you and Buckin' did today! Ken and Lynne

This reminded me of my son´s plumbing apprenticeship with an old school plumber. He learned how to do things from scratch the old school way. Now he has his own crew with a large plumbing outfit doing only new construction where people are moving to nowadays. With his base knowledge he is able to solve all manner of problems that come up on a daily basis. If you know the reason for the rule, no problem is unsolvable.

Admitting when your wrong and the way you do can say more then appearing to always be right, though it’s a strong temptation to all of us who do in fact know a thing or two.

Happy Father’s Day mr Wadsworth!

Thanks for the knowledge that you share.

My HS wood shop teacher from oh so many years ago is still around and I am thankful to him for my love of wood working today.

Love this stuff. And your a gem of youtube

Thanks for the awesome content and great video!!

Never knew what those numbers were for. Now I guess I know why my dad cussed me for getting welding spatter all over his framing square.

Good episode, thanks.

Thanks for the video, I love a good story!

Beautiful mea culpa Scott. Thank you.

Great video, my friend. You keep it honest, and real.

Right on brother

You, sir, are the antidote to current modern day buffoonery & clown show. And I thank you.

As always, a class act.

Your legend grows

Another great video

Well done my friend.

Nice save Scott. But knowing the basic principles gives you the skills to attack difficult problems with confidence. And how to use the skill saw to make the cut and why, the skill saw is only a shortcut.

Great video, we all learn more. 😊

Great story.

Thank you.

My dad taught me how to use a hand saw as a kid in early 70's. The handsaw is the original cordless saw.

Hello from Ireland Scott! Love your channel

Great story

Good on ya

Great Story

Bravo...

Handsaw skills are useful to aquire

Good stuff! Also, I've never seen anyone make a cheek cut with a hand saw 💪 great for video but definitely wouldn't want to cut the whole roof like that lol

New isn't always better - after spending hours searching the latest battery powered circular saws or 'skill saws' - I have come to realise I should spend a ten of the cost of a new saw and buy a longer cord and rewire my mains powered saw - its fine its powerful and still true

I just got suspenders today and I ain't never lookin back..the first day in my life I didn't have to pull up my pants 🙃 thanks

How to figure cheek cuts on a irregular roof: Example 5/12-9/12 roof Set your framing square up with 5 on the tongue and 9 on the body (these are the opposing rises). Scribe both sides of the square on a board and read the angles with your speed square. The steeper angle is for jacks on the shallow roof. The shallow angle is for jacks on the steep roof.

Thank You again!! KUTGW

You remind me so much of my mentors Wilbur Kennel and a Guy we called "Fish" who was a finish carpenter! I was 15

I'd mark out the centre line of the; Ridge board, hip rafters ceiling joists and valley rafters on the top plates. Then I set my chop saw to the pitch angle in degrees 26°. * Cut all common rafters * Cut two king end rafters, fix them in place opposing. (I was told once that "the edge cut is not exactly a 45° cut due to it being a compound miter on jack rafters) so that was that! 🌏🇭🇲