Candle Side Chat: Viking Chair Correction 

Bravo for having the courage to admit your mistakes. I wish more people did the same, particularly certain political leaders.

The greatest historians in the world get it wrong sometimes. So it is absolutely going to happen in our hobbyist circles, where we are openly comfortable with blending reality, fantasy, and functionality. A humble *mea culpa* goes a long way. Ok, we've learned something today. And as GI Joe used to say, "Knowing is half the battle."

One thing to remember about the medieval Norse, they had basically NOTHING to do all winter long. The farming season is over and raiding season is during the summer when the seas are calm, so what's a viking with no major work to do for three or four months? Why woodcarving and woodworking of course! It's most likely why even mundane items like wooden combs are often elaborately carved.

While historical accuracy is grand in many situations... As a historian whose qualifications are significantly more than enthusiast... I am exceedingly glad that we don't go for complete accuracy. Fit of firsthand footwear aside, there are vanishingly few situations where the modern alternative isn't better. One very important thing to keep in mind is what the event is and what is it's purpose. Faire is for fun. It's a themed costume party. And all the better for it. Most reconstruction combative arts are also sports, not fighting systems. Modern reproduction swords (other than wall hangers) are largely leaps and bounds better than anything available at Bosworth or Crecy. How should media treat historical situations? The same way they treat contemporaneous situations. If something is presented as fiction, then take liberties as they will. The more something is presented as historical account, or an actual representation of events, the more meticulous it should be. For the majority of viewers, it won't matter that a show gave it's vikings undercuts and fantasy leather biker vests. It's fantasy. Will the lay person make false assumptions because of this misrepresentation? Most likely. But we can't even get modern event reporting to stick to the factual... Expecting a greater degree of verisimilitude from entertainment than we do from the news is a touch disingenious, no? So long as we aren't diving deep into the derp that was Victorian fanfic being passed as real History, I'll call it no slight and be ready if someone solicits a more factual account. It's an uphill battle for me, but when seeing something that is, perhaps, a bit outside of what it is presented is, I ask myself two questions. Does it matter? Will the situation he improved meaningfully by correction? Only if the answer to both is yes should I give unsolicited commentary. On the other hand, if correction is solicited, let us act like people of reason and dignity when offering it. The only shame in ignorance is it's willful maintenance.

A personal opinion: "Stargazer" chairs may, indeed, be historically inaccurate, but when accuracy is NOT a prime consideration they DO have a saving grace: they're easy to build even if you don't have woodworking knowledge/experience, they don't require a well-equipped woodworking shop to make(it can be done with hand tools alone), and they're better for producing an "atmosphere" than a modern chair, even if it DOES have possible historical antecedents. They ALSO fold FLAT, which makes packing them into a vehicle which will be heavily loaded much LESS troublesome! An ENTIRELY modern consideration, true! My "credentials": I've been a ninth century Northman in the SCA for the last 45 years.

at least the star gazing chair is suitable and practical in an anachronistic enviroment, more that you can say about the horned helmets that was created by the costumedesigner of wagner in the late 19th century.

Great video and interesting topic! Here's my personal opinion: As you mentioned, some of the misconceptions and pseudo historical expectations have been created by inaccurate media in the first place. These expectations are not set in stone, they can (and should, in my opinion) be corrected. When I watch a movie or TV show that is set in a historical period, I want to be able to imagine that this is what it really could have looked like. Just knowing that inaccuracies have been deliberately introduced for dramatic effect diminishes the experience for me. Of course there is more leeway in Fantasy, that is part of what makes it fun. But in my opinion, shows that are explicitly set in history, in our reality, should be as accurate as possible.

Yes for historical accuracy, as much as possible. I learned much about history, weapons, warfare, and all those things in movies in last 4-5 years, but if movie wants to be historically accurate - then you can't have horned Viking, twohanded Roman swords, or African chairs in medieval European house. Because education is good and can be fun. Just imagine seeing WW1 movie where American soldiers are using AK-47. Stupid, right?

I think what he's trying to say is, "Don't be an AHOLE about trying to help others understand they are incorrect".

"You have to know what the rules are first before you can break them." People who wear jewelry over gloves don't know that this was first done by teens in the South as a form of rebellion against strict societal rules. Traditionally gloves are worn over jewelry. These days people who don't know the rules at all will put on gloves and then bracelets and rings over that and not know they're doing it wrong. This is why it's so important to go back to the source material when you're trying to figure out the rules so that you can fit in.

While I certainly agree with your conclusion, I wanted to add a caveat about excavated evidence. With things made of wood it's always hard to say something did or did not exist, as a lot of luck is involved when wooden artifacts are found due to biodegradation. While something of that size would certainly have a better chance of being preserved well enough to find one recognizable that lasted until now, it's only more likely than almost 0, especially considering the climates involved. There's a reason most wooden historical artifacts found come from desert civilizations. Anyway great vid thanks for the content, can't wait to see you hit 10k.

My uncle has one of these exact chairs on his verandah that he has owned for at least 30 years, you'dnot call it a viking chair on account of it being dark tropical hardwood and covered in carvings of a fellow and a few goats or impala.

First question, "what are you trying to do ?" if its reinactment then you should be as documentation based as possible. In a LARP situation its more about a plausible but not 100% verifiable level of accuracy while telling a compelling story . 1- are the materials ones people in the area and with the tools of the time could have got access to and used in the way being shown 2- Can you provide a story based explanation for why this strange item is there ( olaf was working as mercenary and travel to far of Africa and saw chairs like this and showed us how to make them ) but that might not have been documented because it was of a small scale or amongst people who left few written records . 3- how important is this artifact to the overall story ( is this chair important to whats going on or just a bit of furniture ) and what function dos this particular item serve ( the AED in the corner is not there as part of the story ,its in case someone has a heart attack today during our performance ) 4- what kind of compromises do we have to make to the modern world to tell our story ( most people will not be able to understand old Norse) and the rules that come with the modern world ( yes we are using LED candles because the fire regulation at this venue dont allow any open flames ) .This is crucial in terms of weapons , fire , allergies , relative costs then and now ,fall protection, hearing protection and liability . 5- be willing to explain the real world reasons you are doing things ( the shields are made of plywood because we can afford a lot more plywood then solid wood and we wanted all the soldiers to have shields ) or ( we are using a cotton instead of linnin because we can get these things in cotton and not in linnen ) and wear possible upgrade things to ones that people actually notice are not immersive to there experience 6- for item people dont know are actually acuret have a binder with sources to show the that this actually is what people used or were described in the source material for your story ( yes hobbits drank beer ref to original work )

I had a similar issue with the long sword. I erroneously called it a broadsword for the longest time before I learned the facts.

What a lovely way to start a Saturday morning.

Personally, I'd like things to be as historically accurate as possible

More back catalogue LOL. I run into the question of 'historic or immersive' all the time when viewing period drama costumes. Textiles have always been my major interest. Everything from neolithic cordage to Tudor court dress to Kansas homesteading quilts!!! Costume designers have a hard thankless job, and often a fairly limited budget considering what it would cost to have each piece hand sewn in period materials and using period techniques!! I often think, though, that they did little to no research when even a glance through actual period primary sources like manuscripts or portraiture, archeological finds, etc would at least get them started with the right silhouette and colors. Case in point - the mud color clothing of every recent cast member playing a serf and peasant when there are manuscripts with illustrations showing even people doing hard manual labor in the fields in yellow, green, red, russet brown....

Afaik Shad has self-built the ShadThrone, he is a skilled woodworker and has made a lot of his house's furniture. I think he said he built the beds for his children too

The comment about the Stargazer chairs that they where viking in the old video confused me because I never saw them in such a context. They did look strange to me because I never really came across them. If I saw those "viking" chairs and someone told me they were historically I am not sure if I had believed them. When you were talking how really viking chairs would might have been, I thought probably just simpe wooden charis with four legs. I would put just old wooden chairs if I wanted to create an medieval athmosphere. Those camping style cloth old ones look quite plausible for that time, even if you would not have said anything about it.

if you think about a nomadic or adventuring context, the stargazer chairs represent a lot more weight and bulk to move and carry compared to the fabric based folding chairs. those seem much more likely to be stowed on a pack wagon or in a viking style ship

I think that you addressed something very important here, and that is that oftentimes an experienced person's passion for historical accuracy can come off in such a way as to completely sour and dissuade a neophyte. There's an old saying (and no, I don't have a historical date for its inception * grins * ) "You attract more flies with honey than with vinegar". I also will say that not all people with an interest in the varied and evolving trappings falling under the long historical 'umbrella' of "Medieval" are, in fact, looking for 100 percent historical accuracy. Many, like me, for example, are drawn more to *fantasy medievalism* , a la Lord of the Rings, Sword of Shannara, Raymond E. Feist's Magician series, GOT, The Witcher etc... and in that context, that absolutely not-Viking "Viking" chair (maybe distressed and with some fantasy runes burned in?) would work for a *fantasy medieval camping trip* Having said all that, I really like and admire your continued willingness to readily admit *and* correct any inadvertent inaccuracies in any of your videos, as well as your openness to learn. ♥

I feel like it depends, we are going to use one of my favorite series as a reference here Pirates of the Caribbean. On one hand are the outfits really accurate to what sailors of the time period would wear? No, but it is the look that "feels" piratey and it isn't really going for historical either it is going for fun, and I feel like ultimately that is what needs to be asked of the piece in question. If it is touting itself as this historically accurate item then sure, get into the nitty gritty, but as the video pointed out feeling immersed into the world is also important. I mean let's also consider in Pirates, they swing from one ship's deck to another in a hail of gunfire is it accurate? No, but is it fun or is it unimmersive? That is something that really only can be answered by the viewer. I for one like things to look and feel historical even if they are not. But I do not think there is anything wrong with wanting things to be totally historical either. But if we look at something like the show The Last Kingdom there are many historical shortcomings, but for example vikings did not all wear furs. But then you lose the nice and easily understandable furs = vikings. But I don't mind it as it also helps make this a more visually interesting thing to watch.

We spent 2 entire Pennsics knocking these chairs over sideways. It takes surprisingly little force no matter how large the occupant. Good times.

Id stand behind the thesis, that if you hear somebody from f.e. holywood saying: people are expecting this, so thats how we make it look like. It should be translated as: we are lazy to even try to make it look authentic. Its all about being open-minded about the aestetics of the past centuries and trying to find the value in its pure form. Look at KCD. they made it look as it should and people learned to love it. Why not make the movies the same way.

I think a viking would just sit on their sea chests around the camp. Or in front of it, leaning against it, which is comfortable enough, if the ground is dry. Transporting an additional and redundant piece of camp equipment is a luxury.

How to do leg wraps video?

I make these often and I always called them stargazer chairs because of the slight reclined position

Thank you for the public correction! I play in the SCA (Society for Creative Anachronisms - pre-1800s re-creation) and Rendezvous (Mountain Man era re-creation). Different time periods (they don't quite overlap) but many things are acceptable across both venues. One of the things I love about these games is that the more we learn, the more accurate we can become. There are things for re-enactment that must be considered, even with accommodations. How much stuff do you need, how long will you be on location, how long do you have to set up and tear down, how much help will you have to do that? Many of these things become moot on a film set, unless it's got a tiny crew, because they'll do all that, whereas in an event, you have to do it. And at most of the events I go to, you are effectively living there for the duration of the event, rather than "just" acting. I think modern media understandings of "our" time periods affect what the visitors or "audience" expect rather more than the players. And my experience is, for the new player, (or even the experienced one) don't hesitate to ask. Most of us are geeks in our own way, and happy to share what we know or have discussions. :)

At least you're honest about this. I'd been scoffed at all my life only to have everyone turn pale later and not one has ever said an apology after the fact after they say he y A or S is, to me, in fact, I wouldn't accept it, not because I'm arrogant or a "Karen", I'm just tired.

Isn't the stargazer chair meant to be a replica of the bog chair from the 8th century?

Hey good vid my friend. Thank you for correcting yourself and posting it. If you take the time to learn an share your findings you are a better person for it. I find your vids very interesting an thank you.

Of course the video has likes even before it's been up long enough fof anyone to watch it.

I appreciate the clarification on the chairs. My "long comment": I feel like our media should indeed portray history as accurate as possible even though it may set the mood and picture into a different direction. I've been trying to think of examples of this happening in our past and the only thing I can come up with would be a movie series like Jurassic Park/World. Every film they seemed to try to make the dinos more realistic according to latest theories on how the dinos looked and acted. Even though the series of films are all under the same setting of how/why the dinos are here, the film creators weren't afraid to drastically change the appearance of the dinos to try to be more accurate. And since then, a large majority of movies/shows involving dinos have taken the same route with making the dinos more bird-like. I feel like it only takes a few years for everyone to move on with change and forget things of the past. But that only happens if the large majority of our media follows on the same path. If all movies for the next 5 years all started using historical versions of directors chairs as furniture in our media, it's my opinion that the majority of our society will come to accept it as true, and forget the props & settings that were inaccurately depicted in the past.

Surely it depends on your purpose? If you're a re-enactor or living history museum staff, it needs to be accurate, no ifs, no buts. If you're a set-designer or restauranteur then you need to strike the balance to get the "theme" across without breaking joe-public's immersion. But, if you're being anachronistic for anachronism's sake (e.g.: LARPing), I see no problem with taking something that plausibly could have existed given material and tools available if it helps build the aesthetic. That being said, I could see an argument in the case of the "viking" chair that it's simplicity could be seen as doing a disservice to the ingenuity and craftsmanship of the people, place and time it purports to represent.

Hey, I was just gonna make that chair.

Awesome video :) I have seen chairs like those used at reenactment events dedicated to the viking period on a number of occasions (but then someone in Ireland tried to sell me one as a "Celtic chair" once so I should probably have suspected something) Thank you for providing me with the information so I don't make the same mistake ;)

Not sure about the real origin of stargazer chairs but they look a lot like a simplified version of Adirondack chairs. The first of those were made of planks and had wide armrests attached, They were invented in the early 1900s in upstate New York. Speaking of squirrels (I mean tangents), I've seen you light candles with a butane lighter and stick matches. When are you going to get a proper tinderbox? ;>)

You shouldn't call yourself an idiot and belittle yourself. It has an effect on confidence in the long run.

LOL the difficulties of becoming more popular on youtube. Bro, keep doing what you have been. It's the title of your channel. I appreciate your respect for history but I watch other channels for that. Do your thing.

I love the longer videos Kramer. The longer the better imo. Sometimes I listen to them when I'm at work. Same with shad and modern history except I've already watched all Jason's stuff. He doesn't post as often as shad and you but I find myself watching you the most.

Nice video and an interesting topic. You should think about what kind of content you really want to make on your channel. This goes for any content creator here on RU-vid. If you choose to stay true to the historical sources, you are pretty limited in what you put in your videos. If you just want to create an immersive feeling of a lost time and age, you can do just about whatever looks cool. After all we are in the entertainment business, and you make all the decisions. The problem with staying true to something like the "real" viking age is that we really dont know all that much about the details on how things where done back then. What we do know is that people like the vikings did take advantage of new ideas and new technology. No matter how much effort you put into the historical accuracy, you never know for sure exactly how things where done and what they used a 1000 years ago. I think the most important aspect is what you, as a creator, want to do. Keep up the good work :) - Martin

I do really like this topic, and as a person who is new to faires and larp, accuracy at something like those events, I think things like the stargazer is pretty passable. Especially with things like those chairs, I think you make a good point in your cloak video, it's such a simple design and common material that's its hard to imagine that nobody thought of the design at the time. It may not have caught on, like the cloth seats, but it feels like it could have been around. Very cool to see other peoples opinions on this kind of stuff, like historical accuracy vs reasonable fantasy. Great video!

This not being my area of expertise i tought id just put this comment up just to show my support, seing as the more people that comment the better.

A major consideration about being period accurate: CAN YOU AFFORD IT? Even if you produce your own items, rather than purchasing, the cost of period materials, tools needed, etc, could wind up being quite a drain on one's bank account! Which is why film studios DON'T make many "historically accurate" movies, especially "low budget" ones

It is interesting that this tension comes up regularly around my role-playing table. How much historical realism *should* be in the game? It is a tension because too much realism seems to slow gameplay down to a crawl, while too little is confusing and causes some around my table too balk. Still, entire game systems are loved by players and will boast about being "more historically accurate." As someone who runs games, I am sensitive to how much realism and correctness my players want. I am the one who judges what is appropriate in my fantasy world in the end. I wonder if the tension is the same for people in other frameworks, and how it's different.

I love my stargazer chair. I think as you said, it depends on what you are trying to do. If it's a LARP, go with it. If it's SCA, anachronism is one of 3 words in the name. If you are trying to do living history setup, then it isn't.

Ah yes, candle lighting troubles XD

So an odd thing about set pieces that look anachronistic is that it draws attention to itself and gets people looking into it just to be able to poke fun at it. Then when they discover the thing they thought was anachronistic was for real they have a belated appriciation for your work.

A good line for the “absence of evidence isn’t evidence of absence” crowd is “the difficulty of finding evidence of absence means that the absence of evidence for presence of a thing is often the strongest reason to assume the absence of a that thing until evidence of presence can be produced.” Because the absence of evidence that there is a lindwurm in the next room may not itself be evidence that there is not a lindwurm, it is a very good reason to assume there is not a lindwurm until evidence of its presence can be produced.

Aye Saturday upload!

First.. Fantasy, anything aesthetically pleasing goes. It probably goes without saying that DnD and such require no historical accuracy. Second, something like the really fun Knight's Tale (rip Heath) should embrace aesthetic over history. The movie never pretends to be historically accurate. Nor should it have tried. (300 is another good example) Third, if telling an actual historical event, be as historically accurate as possible. People learn from movies and plays (Hamilton anyone). Do the best you can. Finally, fictitious period pieces. This is the challenge. Personally I as a Historian think historical accuracy is super important. People learn from this. You should do the best to be true as possible. Don't teach bad things.

I really appreciate the time and thought that went into this! I'm a newbie to the historical costuming/LARPing world and you bring up a lot of really interesting and thoughtful points and questions!

the video's at 666 views xD

*Serious discussion* *Dramatic ending* "Wax went everywhere" XD

Had one of those "viking chairs" (funny how they got that name obviusly everywhere) back in ye olden days over 20 years ago in Germany, when I was a Viking reenactor. But learned already in the year 2000 that those were most likely from the 19th century USA or something like that.

I've got to admit to following your errmmm "vids" Here in Sweden in my local church is a genuine Bishops Throne, according to the guy showing me around it was from the 9'th century ( c8/900) but it think he meant it was from the 900's.its completely wood no metal in it anywhere. It was made by a Bodger on Forest Lathe, roughly a bit of plank with a string attached wound around a piece of wood the string was attached at t'other end to a springy sapling which when the plank was operated as a treadle (like an old Singer sewing machine!) would help rotate the work in one direction only. the Throne would I am assured would have had a very deep cushion on it to sit on. you could probably make one yourself :)

Phantasy worlds are not necessarily about historical accuracy, they are all about credibility. (All of this is an attempt at a theory, not claiming I knew the "truth".) While we really enjoy the high fantasy medieval inspired LOTR style settings, that does not have to be. The point lies somewhere else, I believe: does this fit into the world in which we're currently moving? There's a movie called Wild Wild West. A lecturer at my uni once brought it up as a great example of world building. Things that wouldn't make sense in the real world, in neither that time period nor ours, are formed into a whole that you can immerse yourself in because of the way they are put together. So what is or isn't in touch with the setting depends on the setting. And the setting, in LARP for example, is often not described in enough detail to be the actual point of reference, and that's where many grievances come from, I believe. So one point to draw inspiration from would be what we know of our past. I really like what you once said somewhere else: That in phantasy, things that historically appeared in sequence will appear simultaneously. This makes finding this point of reference more delicate. What people or country, for example, am I part of, what do people wear there? What is the price of what metal, considering that this deeply depends on external factors and a random decision of the world builder? What colours for earthenware? Porcelain is made since three millennia. It can be done. So is porcelain okay? Are forks and tomatoes? Are chopsticks? What about glass, or crystal glass? Maybe I just _want_ this thing. A DnD-style magician capital looks great with glass and bronze. In a way, one might wonder if what we observe is a group of people trying to construct a whole that can only be a group effort, but without coordination. Everyone follows their own guidelines - which might not be within the scope of your neighbour's. And so people may be thrown off - although this freedom serves a purpose, too, that is, to allow for a multitude of mind spaces to enjoy themselves. What's my focus? Adventure? Freedom of visual design? Reenactment? Experience? Back to credibility. In societies where technology hasn't advanced too far, human labour and human time isn't as friggin expensive as it is today. People have time, people embellish things. We have this warped idea that handmade things had a rough, coarse look to them. I believe that comes from a mixture of two factors: Handcrafts gave up on perfection, because machines will beat us at that. This is just like how the *art* of photorealistic, detailed drawing basically died when photography came up. And the other reason is that precision also takes a lot of time, which is impossible to pay for in our day and age. _That wouldn't be the case in a society where people have time and still value precision as an expression of skill._ "Easy to make" is just *not* an in-game criterion for any item. At the most, "easy to carry" would be. (But as for stargazer chairs, I can think of things that are far more easy to carry.) Unless you had a recent catastrophe in the region. Which doesn't mean that these chairs can't be part of a society. Obviously, because they are. Maybe there is a people who just like to recline in the evening. Who doesn't. I'm just saying, simplicity is rather something to be explained, excused, than a value and virtue. In item and garment. Btw, I have strong associations to Romans with those cloth seats. If they're made with a bit of love, they don't look an inch modern to me. So, to wrap this rambling up although you're never going to get notified for this comment on this old video anyway: I appreciate craftsmanship and usability in setups, and I suggest to start with imagining or discussing the fictive society that serves as the reference point. Who defines a world? Suggestion: assume regional differences and this take it as another part of your world. And as for movies: If they claim to depict a historical past, their task must be to accurately depict it. Otherwise, they will necessarily warp perception over time, and truth is a value in and of itself, one to be protected, especially in the time of too much information technology. For freedom of inspired depictions, that's what fantasy is for. By the way, phantasy set in the historic past doesn't seem problematic to me per se. Japan does some great stuff in that regard. Just make it clear what you're doing!

Yup! Totally African. I grew up in Benin, W. Aftica and have a beuatifully carved one that has moved with me throughout my life.

I want to start this by saying that I’m primarily a TTRPG fan who likes fantasy and historical stories. I went to my first fantasy renfair last weekend. I’ve been interested in doing fantasy dress and more rustic camping for nearly a decade. This is my perspective on the idea of realism versus expectations. As an observer I am 100% more leaning towards expectation of what could have been possible. As someone who wants to dress as medieval whathaveyous I am bogged down by wanting to be accurate. That being said I’m a soldier, I will adapt my equipment to fit the mission over costume accuracy unless accurate dress is the mission. As an example I have a larp bow that I’ve added a catching strap to so I don’t have to grip the bow and potentially twist it, like how Olympic archers do today. This is for my comfort. I don’t care if longbow archers wouldn’t have done. Basically comfort and better quality over accuracy.

You know, even with the historical inaccuracy. In a fantasy larp type setting, I would not be offended at seeing those "star gazer" chairs. They seem plausible, and probably won't break the immersion if done right. I am not an expert, not trying to be, just 2 pennies for discussion.

I think something important to understand about the pre-industrial revolution mindset that is often not conveyed very well through media is the fact that physical resources were not in plenty, and so most items would have been made to economize the use of as little material, even at the expense of great amounts of labor. when making a chair, the farmer whos crops are already sown has all day, but every plank of wood from the one tree he has at his disposal at the moment is precious and must be used sparingly to get the most out of it. today, our material plenty has left the resources as less important than our time, so the things we make will often be made with more material to strengthen what would otherwise have needed more deliberation in design if that material were to be saved. that is to say, the stargazer chair does seem to use a lot more wood to maintain its integrity than the other designs shown, and until modern people understand (through media, likely) the materials vs labor relationship of the time, they'll continue expecting rough, simplistic looking and rustic designs like that instead of the "I've got just this wood, and all the time it takes wheat to grow, to make this chair" that are most accurate.

I have Seen similar chairs (broken wooden oars threaded through holes bored into a log or section of beam at perpendicular angles. In this way the blades of the oars form the legs seats and backs….. A chair made from broken oars DOES sound like something made from scrap in a seafaring community (Viking ) and in that thinking a chair made from a couple of pieces of scrap flanking Does also sound like something ALSO possible in that same community… It might be something so common that it was bother to be preserved for posterity.

You've made videos about swords and similar LARP weapons, but I'd love to see you make a video about the spear and the quarterstaff (my own would-be LARP weapons of choice).

Nice intro. Before the intro. 😅😇 Thanks for inviting us to this candle side chat. I enjoyed it a lot.👍 19:16 I thought it. 19:19 You said it.

Thank you for the great vid. I think I'm going to set your channel next on the binge watch list. For me, if it is a representation of something historical. I like the more historically accurate. Especially in film, TV series and other Media. Big productions with obvious 'flaws' are a pet peeve. They have the opportunity to educate a broad audience. I don't think underselling or overselling, a historical time period/ peoples capability's is desirable. It feeds into our thinking 'this is what is correct for this time period'. Now if it is hobby, LARP and stuff like that: It depends on the setting. I like to go as accurate/plausible possible as possible. On any given budget ;) Unless of course the 'style' choices are deliberate. It also depends on your knowledge. Most people are willing to learn some, but to make a full study is not something everybody will want to do. Now if you are talking about a obviously fantastical, other world. Think non-earth, other dimension/reality, dream world etc. Somewhere the laws of physics and nature as we know it don't apply. Then fiddle with it to your harts content, within the 'rules/ possibility' of that place. Like in Alice in Wonderland, the Wonderland part :). Wow, I've fiddled with this text, English is not my first language :). Read the comments, fiddled more with the text. And got to this.

A period candle snuffer would be handy. Nice little DIY project?

In the case of furniture, it is not really a matter of style that matters, it is the way it is made that matters. Folding chairs was found in Thut Ankh Amuns grave! And that "Viking" chair looks like something from a 1950" Danish design show. But furniture from Scandinavia around 600-1100 was generally carefully cut out with axes, fitted without iron nails, and decorated with intricate carvings (and probably painted). It was made to be sturdy, practical and good looking. IF a "Viking" ever made something like that chair (and he probably did) it would belong in a simple workshop as a in-prompty aid for a shoemaker or something like that- not in a great hall. But then, most people at that age did NOT live a great hall! They lived as simple, poor farmers and fishermen, and they probably made chairs just like that because its simple and cheap! Hell people in the stoneage probably made chairs like that!

Either authors do a research and say "Here's my historically accurate historical thing", or they draw some inspirations and say "Here's my fantasy thing inspired by some historical things". Or just put out a label "Fantasy" upfront. Simple. Education-wise... What feels more appropriate due to the context and what is historically accurate, if it's different, then it's difference is the same as the difference between an animated cartoon and a movie with real actors doing real things for real. Because animation needs to CONVEY what's happening alongside the actual visual queue: coyotie time when a character hangs in midair for too long, squash and stretch to show preparation and action, multiples of the same limb on some frames to show fast movement or waving, all of that is to convey what's happening and to do that in a better, more expressive way, often better than real acting ever can. So if you squash and stretch you won't show the action how it's performed in reality, but you now can convey it vibrantly. With animation we can look and see when something is overdone in a certain way to express the events, not as much with historical accuracy, so there should be medieval-historically-accurate stuff and medieval-inspired-feel-conveying stuff with distinction drawn. But that's my opinion.

Fun fact the "not viking" chair is super common on construction sites, I use to keep one that I made out of old form boards when I was a concrete apprentice. But my two cents on the topic of the video is that if someone could have done something, someone likely has, the viking chair as shown here is extremely easy to make, it is literally 2 bits of wood that lock together. I am actually making one with a pad to sit on for my SCA/HEMA events because it is easier to both make and transport.

What I hate about "Viking" as a term in today's usage is that it just seems to get tacked onto anything to make it more marketable. "Oh you see this brooch that could have been used by anyone in europe and beyond between the years 1000BC-1400AD? Well it's actually a 'Viking brooch'... give me money."

I can understand where the error came from. One of the general rules of researching is not to go seeking a predetermined answer. For example, if you want to know whether or not eggs are healthy, you don't search for "are eggs healthy?" or "are eggs unhealty?" because those questions seek confirmation rather than seeking information, but instead you'd search for something like "Egg health study" or "Egg health doctor reports" or something neutral. The fact that you had to actively seek out a negative take proves that normal research simply wasn't enough in this case. Well done!

The wood x shaped chairs and stools have historical context clear back to the Roman times. The plain more"primitive " look always is a short hand for poverty and old timey look. But in doing so it makes people in history look dumb and uneducated. The truth of matter is that people were smart and built stuff more hardy. Media needs to step it up when portraying historical contexts to show people with real lives and really feelings and good at building stuff because they built beautiful things. They have automatons that sing and chirp etc made from clockwork dating to the 1700s

An early draft of the script for the movie Gladiator had billboards in Rome with Russel Crow’s character endorsing olive oil brands. Which is 100% historically accurate, but got cut because the producers knew 21st century audiences would think it was parody. A lot of the time, historical accuracy has to give way to people’s expectations.

🎩hi. Who knows whether it’s authentic ? Your talking 1000 years ago. If I had 2 planks of wood it would make a good chair for me. I have a 3 hole bone transverse flute, ment to be Viking. But seen loads of reviews on line saying it’s not authentic. But who knows if someone just came up with the idea and made one. We can all come up with stuff.

You have to bridge for the common denominator in your audience. Unless you're making a historical film.

I believe the answer you're looking for is up to you for one of many reasons. 1. Media is attempting to portray either a historical accurate representation of a given period. There are plenty of movies; Outlaw King, Revenant, The Last of the Mohicans, and shows as well - that I believe attempted to hold true to historical accuracy as much as possible. And then there are plenty of fantasy-esque movies and shows that mish mash from many periods or allude to real-world influence in different cultures within the show or movie better or worse. If it supports the plot or narrative of the movie or show - it works anyway regardless of historical accuracy. Film and show audiences are fickle and if the plot or characters are crap - it doesn't matter how historically accurate it is or isn't. And on the other hand - if the plot / characters / book it was originally based off (without any woke intentional injection of real world problematic themes) is good enough - again the historical accuracy is not a high priority even if they did it great. General wide audience appeal is what they are after in even creating the movie/show in the first place. 2. For period reenactment - I believe your choice on being historically accurate in all that you do may result in you giving time in describing or education your audience in different ways as to the choice of your given items you have on / or that you have at your given campsite/store/stage. This time may or may not be available to you for each and every item you are displaying. However, you could use this chair concept as an example if you can accurately describe what you just put a video that is 19mins long into a 2min blurb during your discussion or reenactment question/answer period with perspective audiences. 3. For your enjoyment only - your items being historically accurate seem that it is a strong choice for you and is very important to at least appear to be functionally accurate in real world tests (I'm referring to your adventuring accuracy video you camped out in the cold and described your kit). I believe your choices reflect what is important to you. Whether you can describe why you chose to bring that item as opposed to a modern equivalent is very good as an example to describe the historical choices that real people needed to make to stay alive/be comfortable/be safer in an unsafe world. This video is a really good example of one such choice that can be viewed in different lights depending upon the historically accurate mindset vs the I want to experience a different than modern aspect of what could have been in historical periods other than the modern day.

While I think your point is valid that these "more historically correct" chairs look "wrong" because there are modern day equivalents, I also think that movies and series (und thus set- and costume-designers) probably play the bigger role. I'm thinking about thinks like the viking helmets with horns on them (or all the clothes they wear in the vikings series...). I think these things become "canon" because all the movies and series depict them this way. So while starting to depict them historically correct might be difficult, I feel it would ultimately lead to a better historical understanding of viewers as a whole. EDIT: I should have waited writing this comment, now I see you showing the images from the vikings series as well ^.^ anyway, Ill leave the comment as it was

I think visual media does a really good job at exposing people to historical concepts/scenarios and aesthetics. I got interested in anachronism through tv shows, movies and video games, but then realized almost none of those that I watched portrayed historically accurate characters or events. A single tv series may have different levels of historical accuracy/appeal to appeal to a wide spectrum of people, which is cool for casuals like me😉. I think visual media is helping to create more historically savvy consumers which may increase the demand for more accuracy in products and I think the idea of accurately fleshing out history in a visual form is awesome(timetravel!). But entry level/casual stuff like "RH:princethieves/men in tights" or the "Princess Bride" is also important and it gets people through the door and down the historical rabbit hole😀.

There is nothing wrong with some anachronism, inaccuracies, mistakes or just some honest efforts by beginners that might go in the wrong direction. Stargazing chairs need to be eradicated from the community though. Their abundance, both on the internet and in medieval/fantasy camps sets an expection for newcomers that they also should build these even though there are many more and just as simple, even cheaper alternatives.

Haven't watched your video on camping yet, but found this video interesting on it's own

I mean this was a year ago and I'm serten that someone a year from now will coment to. It is a through. Honestly it's a hard one. While it may feel one or the other I also think context is the winner of all. Example being for our star gazer chair I don't think there's one coulture on the plane earth who say couldn't make that chair if they had large langth if luber available. Soo to me this mite be a moment for story telling in it's self. We see it as midevil but maybe the chair isn't midevil but say low tek. This is something a guy out in the woods mite put together with his saw or maybe something a man at arms strung together with wagon parts and plans on leaving behind. While an ideal chair of course is taking up less space with better built parts that show a nicer appearance. So to speak. I say both are good for me. That's easy answer. And well at the state of mind I am now I think I'd be more interested in seeing what it was in history rather than missing information. The chair I say is a pass because it's so primitive I'm not sure why they could while the director chair I want to almost lear from like this video.

I can see how an African style came to the Boyscouts through Baden Powell and Fredric Russell Burnham from their time in Africa and the scouts amalgamation of multiple native cultures. You could say moern bushcraft does this. I do believe there can be something similar as were Ren Faires of the past. Possibly an anachronism group. People will cry fake but that is the point plus it allows for those that enjoy it.

Something that my history teacher once said stuck with me and I have heard others repeat it so it is probably an old saying. "If there is no proof of it being done means it was never documented, not it was never done." I agree with that because if you look at how simple the design is and how complex some of the things they made were, they definitely could have done that. But if I had a cheap chair like that, I would use it outside, and when it became weathered and old, it would be used as firewood. Because I could easily make a new one I might even rotate through the chairs so they only last a few years. Not to mention they are simple and lack design so the wealthy probably wouldn't want one. They cant show off.

Those chairs never really looked Viking... I am glad to know they are not. Just wish they were not in the Viking game Valheim. But I suppose that is something that could change later on.

I am, for the most part, in favor of historical accuracy. The way media portrays things can have real world consequences; such as the portrayal of suppressed firearms being whisper quiet becoming common belief. That being said fantasy is fantasy and while I prefer it be grounded in reality if I can suspend my disbelief I'm usually fine with it.

Whether or not this type of chair is a 'Viking' chair is irrelevant (to me) I think it might be plausible that the Vikings could have used such a chair since they are easy to make and store, but if you are looking to " be historically accurate" then perhaps they are not.

It is intetesting to understand why they likely didn't use those star gazer chairs. Today they are easy to make, pack flat andvare a very simple design. When you understand that large flat boards are very easy to make today with modern milling but where much more difficult to make and less availible back then. To make good boards you need to cross cut the entire lenth and plane it. You can split boards but even with very straight grain wood there is a lot more work getting it flat. Modern dimensional lumber makes that chair easy. I'm not sure when pole lathes where first used but they allow straight round poles which are great for a lot of chair designs. More rustic chairs may have been made from coppiced poles. If you understand a little about what technologies they had you are more likely to pick things that are accurate even if you haven't researched that particular item. A very simple stool design is to lash together a tripod with the lashings 2/3rds of the way up. It is spread open and a triangle of canvas or other fabric with a pocket in each corner is placed on top. The end of each pole goes into one pocket. I would have a hard time believing something like this was not used. Of course the dificulty with these rustic outdoor, camping type items is that example would be unlikely to survive. Purhaps outside of the nobles, must people would just squat or sit on the ground like they do in most of the world today.

From what I have seen, The majority of people sat on benches. Chairs would have been reserved for the head of the family. So Chairs would have been rare to begin with.

Respect for admitting when you say something wrong. I have always been the find a suitable log type. Ps cloak is almost done!

It seems to me that "The Adventures Of Robin Hood" with Errol Flynn was more historically accurate than a lot of today's movies. .

Props at faires and other events are teaching events... I favor getting as close to accurate as possible. I have canvas stools and director chairs for seating seen and used by customers. I do have some new folding chairs 1950 styled for inside my private area. I figure people do what they can towards historically accurate so if it is historically adequate I accept it.

"You need to know the rules before you break them, otherwise you're just making a mistake." Yep, basically one of the things I say all the time. One of the other ones is: "An error doesn't become a mistake until you refuse to correct it." Kinda funny, that. I really feel you on the whole search thing. Search engines used to be far more effective. They changed from giving information to giving answers.

Unless it's a documentary, and sometimes even then, I figure all media is at most 20% correct in regards to historical accuracy. I may be being too generous though.

🎩hi nice thing I found in a local antique shop, a 1/2 oz of silver. Not a bad thing to carry if you are adventuring.

I feel that historical accuracy versus loose interpretation is about a 75/25 ratio in film, but in Ren Fair and LARP it is nowhere near as important as creating an atmosphere. It is also true that fantasy film and TV only require a little historical accuracy but a lot of atmosphere to carry the story along. We have all seen the Errol Flynn version of the film "Robin Hood" with its Hollywood sets and costuming version of 13th century England. It created the feel of the time but went pretty light on the historical accuracy. This was exactly what the audience wanted in the middle of the 20th century in their entertainment and Hollywood served it up gladly. The same was true for the westerns I grew up watching in the 50s and 60s. There was an emphasis on entertainment and not historicity. That's my 2 cents on the subject!

There is a number of things that didn't get written down in history and a number of things that were lost to history, so I don't agree with people who say " this isn't historically accurate". Because we do not fucking know for certain. 😊

Hey one thing being that the director chair design is more of a historical one you could just get a director's chair and Jazz it up with the year. Settings stuff covering up brackets and hinges with cloth paper item random other stuff and for the camping ones sending you just you know nobody actually sees the frame you just sitting in the chair

Movies are not meant as accurate pieces, they are mainly meant as entertainment. Same would be true for literature animation and so on. Of course we are discounting here actual documentary type stuff. Now how accurate should they be considering they are trying to portray a time period (we thus esclude fantasy works which rather than a period portray a setting which is purposefully anacronistic)? Well, I think there is acceptable inaccuracies and unacceptable inaccuracies. Using a piece of furniture that was not accurate for the time period but that looks accurate to the audience should be fine. On the other doesn't thing like having catapults being able to fire guided projectiles towards it's target is way too unrealistic. It is expected but this is something that can be very easily solved by having one actor play the role of the dumb guy asking why not use catapults and then have the smart actor explain that you have no real way of aiming at a moving target and even against stationary target it already takes several shots just to range it in. So movies can and should get more accurate. But ultimately they are still an entertainement piece, as such, entertaining the audience is still the main point. Even with many inaccuracies it is still a good thing. There was one guy who posted a vid about an anime, Girls und Panzer which is not an historical setting but it's about tanks. Of course tanks are not entirely realistically portrayed, however it is good as entertainment. What is also does is get people's interest in it. You cannot shove historical information about a subject and expect people to care. But what you can do is show them something that is interesting or entertaining to get their interest for the topic and then let them do their research on the subject if they had their curisity tickled. I think the guy who made that vid about Girls und Panzer was rather spot on.

Anyone who *does* suggest posting a video correct in yourself is in someway trying to cover up for being wrong… Is obviously an idiot who doesn’t understand how corrections work. Nobody knows everything and it is ok to be wrong about things, and it even better to be able to admit when you were mistaken. 👍🏻

Your videos are great and this one is truly appreciated. I am working to develop a new "renaissance" community in Tennessee and this type of information is very important to me and the future of my community.