I first posted this video unlisted so I could share with people I know who would be interested. A number wanted to share it with others, so I eventually made it public. So if you have watched, without knowing many other details, be aware your assumtions are just that, could be right could be wrong. You may not know everything there is to know, but only able to relate it to what you have experienced, the design of the boat you paddle or type of water you paddle. Feel free to make comment, debate, and express an opinion, Im sure its all of value to discuss any issues the video raises for you. A few points may be useful to know: - This lower section of Snowy Creek with the guage at 98cm is a series of simple drops with relativly safe and slow runouts below each rapid. There were no recent strainers or sweepers as I had just run it twice, and no sieves, holes or difficult and continuos linked manoeuvres needed. Each rapid being class 1 or 2 is either a point and shoot, or point and one single manouvre. It has a small volume of water and is not technically difficult -The canoe has little rocker, it tracks well but is not quick to turn in moving water when weighted with a bow paddler. As a solo paddler kneeling just behind the centre thwart it handles very well on class 1 and 2 rapids, and is a very versatile open canoe for long lake and river touring on low grade rapids. However it is not a serious whitewater boat to be taken into big volume rivers or class 3+. - The incident was my fault (stern paddler) as an adult cannot place a child into a situation and blame them if they are not able to handle it. My 9 year old son (bow paddler) had just watched his older sister paddle this section after I had first paddled it solo. Unlike his more experienced sister I knew his technique was slowly developing but he was still a beginner. I was wrong to think I could compensate for his lack of skill by using solo techniques if needed. I should have been kneeling further forward to be able to do that. - Approaching the rapid I wanted to be far river-right which I wasnt. As there was no effective bow draw to pull the bow to the left, at 3.36 I went for the cross-duffek (aka cross bow draw) but immediately realised the bow would hit river right before the cross-duffek engaged, so in a split second tried to swap hands and back it up on the left. Looking back in slow-mo I had no more than 1 second and I think it was actually too late for anything at that point. - Once pinned my focus was not for saving the canoe but getting my son secure. You cannot hear in the video but I told him to step forward and climb up onto the bank. He moved then hesitated, at which time the stern hull shifted up higher onto the rock, which in turn tilted the hull toward upstream. I took a couple of steps forward to place my son up onto the bank, but instead when the canoe folded I grabbed him close and we were cleanly flushed out together. Meanwhile with some rope reinforced between the lacing the canoe did recover and we continue paddling. - I feel confident in a canoe, but no expert in whitewater. However I have done several courses in whitewater rescue, am well aware of the risks, have had several decades of regular and continual learning from canoeing experiences, and had recently paddled this section several time, therefore I felt it was a responsible decision to take an age 9 boy. I had appropiate rescue gear, PPE and emergency comms on board, with a car, mum and sister meeting us at each access point along that section. - As for children and risk, I think there is no excuse for not considering and understanding the risks before taking children on adventures. I think its also a mistake to be paralysed by fear and not let children be exposed to risks while under supervision. I have watched my son carefully on many adventures and I know he has a cool rational head, and becomes more responsible with every experience. I think it is best if within slowly expanding parametres he is allowed to find and know his limits, to enable him to grow.
Very well said, I’m sure the experience will serve him well in the future too. I’m glad you are both ok and big ups to your son for not being put off. Thanks for sharing, points I’d like to share are I think your communication is very good. I prefer a more backwards paddling approach of water so fast but that’s my preference. I love how you trim the boat with your sons agile movements.
This looks to be a very good learning experience for both of you. things can go wrong, even when we've done everything right. It is in those moments that you have to know how to try and keep everyone safe and thats what you did. well done and thank you for sharing this video.
Boats are replaceable. You two will have good memories of the adventure. Something to consider: instead of the bow person drawing in the direction that you want the boat to go, use a back ferry in which you in the stern set up the angle and lean, while your bow person assists in leaning the boat and backpaddling and drawing as may be necessary while learning lifelong skills in how the hull interacts with the current. Set the boat up to let the current interacting with the hull move you where you want to go. Wu Wei of White Water by Chuang-tzu: The great waterfall of Lu Canyon is thousands of feet high, with a halo of mist that can be seen for many miles. Nothing survives the violent waters at its foot. Yet once K'ung Fu-tzu saw an old man swim the tempest. K'ung-Fu-tzu and his retainers ran with ropes to rescue him, but when they descended to the floor of the canyon they found the man sitting on a large boulder, quietly singing. K'ung Fu-tzu exclaimed, "You cannot be alive! What are your powers to allow you to do what you have done?" The old man turned and smiled, "I am just a man, but I began to learn as a boy, and I continue to practise. I flow with the water, going up, down and around with it. I forget myself and do not struggle against forces far beyond my control. Then I use my meagre abilities in the moments when the water and I share the same path." my.tbaytel.net/culpeper/WuWeiOfWhiteWater.html
I admire your willingness to share the video and these thoughts about whatever you and your son call this event. I spent a lot time canoeing and a little ww, not as much as you, but I'd trust you if my kids were on your trip
I am just impressed that you posted this and subjected yourself to all these arm chair critics who have never cocked up once. Can't beat a bit of Father/Daughter time. Make the most of it they don't hang around for long. All the best.
That kid had zero panic. Almost like he had prepared for this and had been there done that. Kudos to the ole man for teaching the boy how to manage a crisis. We all swim sooner or later. Best be ready.
The number of times my father and I watched our canoe floating down the river as we hung on to trees, or rocks, or whatever we managed to climb onto... lol. Adventure and risk is inherent in developing skills. One does not occur without the other two. The most important is in the recovery - being able to smile, and laugh it off. That's what turns an "event" into a learning experience, and instils the desire to learn more, go farther, get deeper into any craft. Well done.
Your an awesome dad, your kids are lucky to have you. You immediately told your son that it was not his fault and gave him the best beta you could. It's tough to loose a boat but your kid gained valuable experience and the memories you make on the river are infinitely more valuable than the canoe. I hope you are able to get another boat and keep on exploring rivers together! All the best to you and your fam!
A wonderful father and a good man to have on the river;everyone had proper gear and they just wrapped a canoe.You haven't lived until you have wrapped a canoe.
Nice . The boy kept his cool give him a couple of years and him and his buddies will be doing things you don’t want to know about. Nor a bad thing :-) just one of life’s progressions .
Years ago I was participating in a rescue class. We were all standing on a rock, overlooking the river, trying to figure out how to simulate a wrapped boat the a couple guys randomly appeared and wrapped their canoe in front of us. imagine the amazement they felt when they had an "A Team" of rescue with all the gear gleefully show up. I appreciate how you dealt with this. I'm so happy to see family out on the river?!
you could be partly right joynthis, but you did not have your body against the hull of the boat feeling its every creak, shudder and movement. The canoe shifted left downstream at the stern which helped it tilt to the upstream. At this point I could have leaned downstream but it felt unstable as if it could shift or flip anytime, and for that split second all I was focused on reaching my son, not rescuing the boat.
Awesome video, he's gradually learning why he's drawing. Love that he's got a cross bow draw.. It can get confusing when your learning and someone is yelling commands. He's doing great, love seeing young kids getting into the sport.
The waters of life can get rough. Excellent job of parenting ( I’m sure there are some delicate flowers offended by this) however things can get tough and how you deal with it can determine life or death. This boy will grow up to be a boss. His lessons in keeping a cool head in difficulty will serve him for a life time.
Really Glad you both made it out safely. They make new canoes everyday. Thanks for sharing. Last fall I got pinned in a sweeper in my ww boat so my heart was racing as I watched this.
Thank you for sharing this RooCanoe! One of the scariest things about pushing one's comfort zone is the unknown. Your video helps to define that unknown. your bravery (and that of your son!) helps boost my own for similar adventures. Thank you!
A pleasure Shirley. Its never a good idea to go into anything naively, but to watch and listen and learn as much as you can from others mistakes, so happy that you and others can learn from my mistakes on this ocassion, But definately get out there and give it a go, starting off small and building up gradually as you find your limits. There is no caution- the right amount of caution- then too much caution. Find that right balance in the middle and enjoy the adventures
@@mikehd3904 your right. He has been skiing, climbing and mt biking since very little. Skiing at 2 years 4 months ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-1pkeo-B01AI.html
I had a similar accident on the Nisqually River in Washington State. The canoe hit sideways and folded outward 2 to 3 deep. That was in 1980. As far as I know, it's still in the river. No way we were going to pry it out. Worse part, it was a rental and we had to pay for it
Floatation bags, like the ones they have in the bow and stern are like a life jacket for the boat. They displace water and help keep the boat higher in the water. No guarantee, but a larger bag in the middle of the boat might have saved it.
If you're changing sides with your paddle like that, you need to learn the proper strokes for whitewater. Unless that was a last ditch effort to compensate for the fact that you're much stronger than your son. The only hope at that point was a massive stern pry on the left side to try and get the bow around before the bow hit the shore.
Wrapped a canoe miles from nowhere around a rock on the Little Nahanni: none of the fancy equipment in those days. See Kindly ebook on Amazon, describing how we got out of that. Hans Baer.
Use a backstroke to pendulum the nose around. Backstrokes keep you from getting too much speed which you don't want because canoes are not too maneuverable. You win some, you lose some. That was a nice boat.
If you look closely, you'll see that the stern paddler did exactly that, and even switched paddling sides to make that stroke more effective. One could claim that it was too little and too late, but the moment when things went bad was extremely brief and his reactions were pretty quick, all things considered, and yet at that moment all the reversing power in the world wouldn't have held the boat back enough for the bow to get pushed far enough back to the left. One could take the tone of your comment a little farther and suggest back-paddling on the approach to that spot where things went wrong. But hey, if you are an experienced paddler, this this sort of thing HAS happened to you. It has happened to all of us (fortunately in my case it hasn't resulted in a damaged boat, so far, but I don't routinely paddle places like this either). The boat ends up just a schosh "off" from where you want it and recovering control suddenly becomes a lost cause because there's just no margin for error.
@@ericl2969 your comment is spot on. I pinned a comment up the top to give some background detail for all the people who have taken an interest, but missed the full story. Its the 3rd boat I have wrapped in 30 years, but the first with my son. At that moment all that mattered was reaching him, while the boat can be replaced
Good video and turns out all was well. Was downstream about the same rapids as we saw up to the pin point? If so how did the canoe hold up the rest of they way?
There are 4 rapids after this which are a similiar grade, then it eases off to straight point and shoot rapids for the last 30 minutes. We portaged the next and ran all after that. The duralite hull held its shape well with just a little more rocker from bow to stern
As a canoeist from North East Victoria, can I ask which section of river this is? At first I thought it was Snowy Creek but I suspect it's another river.
Matt, it is Snowy Creek about halfway between Granite Flat and the Mitta Pub. You will find I uploaded another gopro video of the whole section with my daughter
As an experienced open boat (and decked) canoist, I'd say the dad was competent. He needs to work on his draws and braces, though. The bowperson impressed me with his training, but the bow child was simply too small and young to adequately draw out of danger. Dad was a bit complacent on the setup for the drop as well. I would have eddied out well above and discussed the drop. It is clear he's done that drop before. Also, if they had some flotation bags, they might have been able to work that canoe out of that mess, but once it fills with water like that - it's over.
It would not have wrapped if they had leaned downstream. It wrapped because they shifted their weight to the upstream side of the boat causing it to tilt into the oncoming current.
Amen brother starred in this one before. Been boating hard whitewater for over 30 years in OC1's and OC2's and that one was unequivocally pilot error. Thanks for the good lesson and passing it on. A fast a deliberate downstream could have easily translated into flipped the hull up and over this rock. Instead the upstream edge was pushed down and the result near inevitable. Most always lean down onto the obstacle., unless it''s undercut. and that's a whole different discussion.
Yeah, not quite so much on the "speed is what you need" stuff. In a tight spot, when the bow has to move quickly to one side forward speed is not necessarily your friend. The young lad has a mean cross draw (and a beautiful thing to behold at his age). But in this case he needed a well planted onside draw in the deep water above the feature. He was hesitant and did a very shallow "lily dipper" draw instead. Things were confusing and moving too fast for him, and the shouting commands isn't all that helpful either. There's a reason why WW paddlers eddy out. You can look, discuss and plan for the next feature, if it's a challenging one. With kids you want to be clear with the big goal. Here it would have been, "your job is to keep us off that rock wall on river right." With that said, the lad would have planted a massive onside draw in the deep water right where it was needed. He had plenty of room for it. He could have even hooked two of them together in succession. All that said, Dad didn't kick the stern with a pry when needed either. You knew things were dodgy when dad did a massive gunnel grab over the earlier drop. I was hesitant to post, but I just wanted to weigh in against all the "need for speed" advice. Yes, speed is generally good. But it all depends. Hats off to these guys. These are lifelong skills, lessons and bonding moments. As others said, the lad learning how to keep a cool head in chaos will take him far.
Are you the "Clarion" who's posts I used to read years ago on paddling.net? If you are that guy, I knew back then you had solid whitewater skills, and this post is a good one.
When I was in High School I went on a rafting trip in white water. There was a big plunge, instead of going down straight, we ended up going sideways and too far to the right and as it hit a low lying boulder, the raft bent and went over. I was on the high side and the force of hitting literally "pinged" me up in the air, like some giant and snapped their finger under my seat on the boat. I went flying down the drop, ate some foam at the bottom, got plastered underwater against a boulder rolled myself off and when I came back up, the guide was blaming me! I swam out on shore, hiked up around the cliff, asked to get in another boat (we had about 5 coming down). Road it just fine and then refused to get in the first guide's boat.
Its a beautiful little creek in North East Victoria- Australia called 'Snowy Creek', sections Granite flat to Mitta Mitta River. And youtube is a place I know receives all sorts of comments and opinions, and a dozen experiences canoeist will have different preferences and opinions of techniques to use depending on so many factors. Then there are those who have little idea, but just like to give their opinions of the little they know and the wrong assumptions they make. It does make for some interesting discussions and I value much of what I find on youtube and other canoeist who freely contribute.
It's fixable as long as both of you are OK that's all that matters. I have one question, have you canoed that water before. When i hear water i scout it 1st.
Yea, great experience but this guy did a bunch of stuff wrong. First the kid is too weak to be in the bow and instead of drawing just stick his paddle in the water. In one of the drops the dad grabs the gunnels instead of keeping his paddle in the water to brace. But the biggest mistake is there is no center flotation bag. Ok you can all hate on me know.
@@mikeobrien6190 Only the clueless will quarrel with what you said. It looks to me like a rec boat with a lot of volume, and considering the way a GoPro flattens things out there's a fair chance that was pretty stout for the boat, even with two strong paddlers. I wouldn't want to deal with that thing full of water in a calm spot, never mind in current. It also looks like the dad was standing starting about 4:07. Maybe it was deep there and he was just floating, and the current was much slower than in other places, but there's a fair chance that was a foot entrapment waiting to happen, and bad form in general. They were also essentially both paddling solo. The kid wasn't going to be a lot of help in a bad situation, and if something happened to the day the kid would have been on his own without the skill and knowledge to deal with things. I'm all in favor of having fun, but they should dial it back and/or find some competent companions.
@@mikeobrien6190 Without that center air bag, this was a highly likely outcome. If someone brought a boat missing outfitting like that on one of my trips, I would have been pretty ticked. Retrieving a boat that large flooded with water is difficult. More importantly, once that canoe fills with water, it's an uncontrollable wrecking ball chasing the other boaters through the rapids. As a kayaker, not a canoeist, I don't know that boat. Bot just the fact that it has seats makes me think this boat isn't appropriate for the venue.
@@NYpaddler I don't know how I missed it, but until I read your comment, I didn't realize they were alone. Wow. I learned to paddle with a solid club. Safety rules at the top of the list. Rule 1. A minimum of 3 boats. Add to that a boat that wasn't outfitted properly. I'm guessing that this guy doesn't understand that he needs to hook up with a quality club. Odd though. The guy seemed to seriously understand "lean down stream". Maybe he does know the safety rules but was willing to ignore them and risk the kid?
barely a sign of the fold in the hull. It popped out straight and paddled another1.5 hours to take out. Replaced the gunnels and broadland still gets regular use today
A whitewater canoeing course is needed. It's a lot less expensive than a new boat. Both the bow and stern paddlers are mostly just flailing and the boat is drifting with the current. The stern paddler needs to do most of the steering, but he can't steer if the bow paddler doesn't provide any forward speed! The only time the bow paddler should be doing draws and prys is if the stern paddler can't turn the boat quickly enough. BTW: If you're caught in a pin like that, never move to the upstream side of the boat. What killed the boat is not the pin. It's the fact that it filled with water coming from the upstream side. That exposed the boat to the crushing power of the current. You're lucky you didn't get pinned into the boat yourself. Brace hard on the downstream side, and make sure the upstream gunnel never goes under water. If need be, get out of the boat on the downstream side. Lastly, why did you not have any airbags in the middle of the boat? They would have displaced quite a bit of the water and possibly saved your boat.
Most bow paddlers should never do a pry! Yikes. Also totally wrong about stern paddler doing most of the steering, totally wrong about bow paddler needed to provide speed. In fact, I would have turned the boat around (above the drop, in an eddy) and paddled with the bow seat now the stern with the child sitting dead center. There were many ways to have done the drop right, as well as many ways for an unexpected incident. After the swamp, the incident was handled exceptionally well.
@@steigj Totally wrong about turning the boat around. If you were paddling solo from the bow seat, the front thwart would be in your way. You shouldn't be sitting on a seat in whitewater anyway. Paddling solo requires you to kneel in the middle of the boat, offcenter, facing the bow, so that you can both turn the boat and provide forward speed. The offcenter position tilts the canoe, and changes the shape of the canoe underwater, so that it turns easier (ie keel is lifted to one side). As to bow prys- adult bow paddlers should do a crossbow draw instead, but a kid wouldn't have the reach. A light pry is all they could manage without changing hand positions - better than nothing if the situation is dire. You're also totally wrong with the rest of your comments. Maybe read up on canoeing skills before commenting.
@@adadadawd309 I don't understand the personal attack, and I don't understand your confusion. My comments are based on experience which, instead of just reading, are in the real world. Try it. Then you'd know empirically that a good sternperson (with good bowman) can MAJOR steer and crank the canoe about with zero regard to forward speed, which is frequently inconsequential in current. Of course, perhaps the reader in you would find Bill Mason's beautiful "Path of the Paddle" or journaled works of the Hearns, Alt and so forth (with whom I used to paddle) enlightening, but don't rely on just reading or you'll never get the feel from immersion and understanding.
@@steigj I agree. More forward speed in this situation would have been a very poor choice. Canoes can accelerate straight sideways quite suddenly and then make remarkable speed sideways speed in the process if the paddler or paddlers know what they are doing, so there's no inherent need for speed to maneuver. Whenever someone talks about needing speed to steer and ignores the usefulness of side-slips, I get suspicious that they might not actually have a full bag of tricks. And when using water flow along the hull for steering (in other words, not side-slipping), reverse speed is every bit as effective as forward speed but buys you much more time and space for getting positioned right than going faster than the current can ever allow, and can let your pick your way through tight spots when nothing else will work. I like the back-paddling option for this situation, but it's still a place where things could go south in a hurry.
@@ericl2969 Reverse works great, particularly reverse ferries to steer clear of obstacles. However, that takes a very well trained person in the bow, who knows how to steer and paddle backwards. In this case, it's just a kid with no skills in the bow. They would have no chance of executing such a manoever, and would end up broaching and pinning on whatever obstacle they tried to go around. BTW: Canoes without keels can sideslip, but if the boat has a keel, that won't work well. Given that this boat was not outfitted for whitewater (no knee pads, no places to tie down a middle airbag,, and the bow & stern seats were not moved towards the center of the boat), there's a good chance it wasn't really designed for whitewater and had a keel. In that case, forward speed is one of the best ways the stern paddler has to rapidly turn the boat, while also maintaining momentum in the new direction to ensure the canoe actually gets by the obstacle.
Stuff like this happens quite often. The man kept his son close and that’s the most important thing. I would say as a man from the Ozarks with several decades in a canoe that every once and a while the canoe just turns the wrong way. I’m not going to criticize your paddling. I will say that the paddle doesn’t always have to go into the water. I have steered my canoe out of trouble several times by pushing off the bank, a log, a rock, (can be slippery) and even in shallow water the bottom of the river. Teaching the person in the front this tactic can at times save you from getting pulled by the current in a unwanted direction. Just my thoughts and not a criticism. Hopefully just another useful trick when your out in the canoe.
I put my young son in a few similar dangerous situations on the river. Have had nightmares and regrets since. It’s all fun until someone dies. Mother Nature is unforgiving.
too right!!! Mum was not far away at the time, but never saw it until I downloaded the gopro footage, and then oh dear. I think a lot of parents stuggle to agree on what the kids should be allowed to do in the outdoors, and Its no different with us, but to see the maturity and growth following mum always agrees being outdoors on adventures is good for them
@@Sailor376also I was thinking bow sweep right with a stern left pry to line up the falls and split the rock and wall. Awesome team can't wait to be a dad.
@@danbida8418 Yes, awesome team,,, (my kid and I sailed,,,, You have a treat in store. My kid was an incredible sailor.) ,,,but there are two captains in that canoe.. My bowman is absolutely used to me saying,, "Pick up your paddle." And on the approach I align as faultlessly as I can. I give the commands as to paddle right,, or left,,, sweep,, etc, And,, I have seen teams that the bowman is the captain. Just so long as there is one captain.. In this case,,,, one wanted one side,, the other had different ideas. or skills. I normally single hand. and normally 100 to 600 miles,,, long trips. The way I describe my 2016 trip (1,300 miles) with the brand new custom, custom canoe,,,,, "I started the trip with a 5,000 dollar canoe,,, and finished the trip with a 50 dollar canoe. " (same canoe) yea,,, I found a few rocks and holes. I used that same canoe two weeks ago. Lotsa patches,,, third set of gunwales.
Unsolicited advice... get speed before you go over one of those. Slowing down to the velocity of the water is where you lost control. Also those floaties in the front and back look like a good idea; I'll have to buy some. Ride on!
Thanks Luke, Im not sure in this situation with my son more speed would have worked. To go faster I needed my son to act even quicker pulling the bow to the left. As some have suggested I tend to think back ferry gliding to get into position by taking a large backward draw in the deep water on my right above the rapid would have been the most method to paddle that rapid with my son onboard. I chose wrong then acted too late
@@roocanoe6338 I totally agree with you. Slowing the canoe down in such a narrow stream is an excellent strategy to reduce risk, enable your back ferrying to be effective, and it offers more time/opportunity for your son to practice his skills.
Not a secret anymore. Thanks Kro, I will look into it sometime. It is a pain to bail after anu significant rapid, and it spoils all the fun to scoot around the outside and miss the wave-train
@@roocanoe6338 yes sir. If you need help wiring a float switch so it automatically turns on when theres water in the boat i can make a video for you. Same as if you just want it on a switch. I know it was a semi stupid comment i made as i made it before i saw the full on flip. However the bilge would have been enough to float the boat in less than a minute at 800gph and keep it dry even with the leak.
@@roocanoe6338 super easy. I install one almost weekly as i own a powersports repair shop and work on alot of jet skis. Ill film it next time and comment back with a link
@@awboat I have 2 coolers that fit a 12 pk. each that fit in the nose of my yak and a cooler in the hold in back. Plus I strap down a small propane grill on back and have a mount for my waterproof blue tooth speaker. Good times.
You could have gotten a solo canoe and then learned to paddle it! (ducking for cover now, but hey, I surprise several good kayakers every year with what can be done in proper solo canoe and I'm not even a pro)
@@dustinvarner3438 I think I understand your point. There is safe time and place for everything. I'm a veteran of 20+ BWCA trips with some white water experience...enough experience that prevents me from taking my sons on a excursion like that.
I've taught white water tripping courses for about 30 years now and I've done long wilderness trips in the arctic with my kids as bow paddlers where we've run lots of rapids. There are lots of things I can see that could have been done differently and made the run more under control. For sure some slower than current technique would have added a lot more control. Because of the weight difference I would have been in the bow with the canoe turned around and my kid in the stern seat. My wilderness tripping canoes all had knee pads on both sides of the bow seat for solo paddling or compensating for unequal weight. If I've got a good paddler as a partner, I prefer to be in the bow seat because when you're doing back ferries you accomplish more steering from the bow than the stern. Going slower than current can give you a much drier ride as well, instead of slicing through waves at speed, the canoe can ride up and over. Something to think about anyway, hope the mishap didn't dampen love for canoeing.
Rolf, its such a nice surprise seeing your name in the comments. You have been my teacher on many occasions with the resources you share, thank you and thanks for your comment here.
@@roocanoe6338 Well thank you for the note, it always pleases me when folks find my stuff helpful. Since I'm guessing you'd be receptive to suggestions, I'll give you a rundown of what I saw reviewing your video in slow motion. Keep in mind this is my $0.25 CDN arm chair advice. Can’t tell how the bow paddler’s lower body is connected with the canoe but the stern paddler looks like he’s often sitting on the seat. To help lock the body with the canoe, there’s a way to cross your legs under the seat and that lets you lock you knees under the gunnel. Adds a lot of stability. At :51 There is a bow cross draw and a stern draw. Ideally, strokes should match intent. A bow draw is matched with a stern draw and a bow cross draw is matched with a reverse stern sweep. What happened at this point was the canoe was pulled sideways into rougher water and closer towards the obstacle mid river. At :52 It could have helped doing some strong back strokes to slow the canoe. That would have allowed the canoe to rise over the waves instead of plowing through them. At:53 a strong low brace at the stern would have stabilized the canoe and lifted the right gunnel farther away from the cresting wave. At :54 it’s not a good idea to let go of the paddle grip, that’s the main control point you have for the canoe. A strong reverse sweep combined with a strong cross draw right after the wave would have slowed the canoe, lined it up for the deep water channel and would have made it unnecessary to do that side slip which was harder to do as the current would be pushing the canoe towards river left.There’s a bit of a gap in the time frame but at 1:04 the canoe is being bailed while still running down stream. There were some eddies before this spot and its always better to bail in an eddy. At 1:42 there was an opportunity to do a reverse stern sweep. That would have slowed the canoe and moved it to river left to line up with the calmer water. That would have avoided the rocking of the canoe at 1:46. At this point the stern paddler is seated again and it looks like the knees aren’t connected with the canoe. That adds instability. Resting paddle on the gunnels during the rocking motion of the canoe adds the instability of the upper body to the motion of the canoe. At 1:55 the stern paddle should be in contact with the water. Wait until the canoe is through the drop to shift whatever was in the bottom. Slower than current technique might have made it unnecessary for the bow paddler to shift seating position. At 2:23 both paddlers are instinctively reverting to land based instincts. If you trip and fall on land you use your hands to break the fall. If you react that way in the canoe you get what happens at that frame, both paddlers are trying to break the fall by pushing down on the lower gunnel while at the same time grabbing the upper gunnel to pull themselves upright. That only serves to tip the canoe over farther. A solid reverse sweep at the stern coupled with an aggressive hanging draw at the bow would have brought the canoe upright again. Stern paddler’s knees weren’t in contact with the chine of the canoe, that doesn’t happen until 2:25 which means the upper body could have added to instability before then. At 3:28 there are some things that could have been done to set up the canoe for a much easier drop and have avoided the pin. At that frame, both paddlers should have reached a bit behind their bodies and done a draw that both pivoted the canoe to river left and slowed it down. That would have been followed with both paddlers doing a reverse sweep to keep slowing the canoe with the stern pointed towards river right. The current would have then moved the canoe over to river right in a back ferry. One potential problem would be weight distribution, you don’t want the canoe be stern heavy when doing a back ferry as the current may try to swing the canoe broadside. That would have put the canoe in calmer water at 3:33. At 3:34 assuming the canoe was going slower than current, bow could have done a draw and stern could have done a reverse sweep. That would have moved the canoe over enough to avoid the rock river right. At 3:37 both paddlers should have done an aggressive draw to pivot the canoe. The pivot would be a lot easier to accomplish with the forward speed the canoe had. Before 3:46 the canoe was stable and in no danger. Probably would have been a good time to do some head scratching and consider options. If the decision was to evacuate the canoe, would have been best done one at a time. The upstream side of the canoe should be avoided at all cost, keep all the weight on the downstream side and don’t even think about touching the upstream gunnel. Another option that might have worked is have bow paddler go to shore and stern paddler move backwards. That might have lightened the bow enough to swing past the rock. Hard to say.
@@RolfKraiker So generous, thankyou. With so much clear and well explained detail its definitely a gift of your time and canoe teaching experience. There are a couple of common themes there I will keep working on this coming season, and likely return to your feedback several times to check. The GoPro was a recent covid lock-down spend and Im finding it a useful teaching and self-awareness tool. I have watched a lot of your videos and love how gracefully you move with a canoe. I will keep an eye out if you ever get to Australia to run a canoe workshop.
@@roocanoe6338 You are most welcome and I'm glad you found some useful advice in that. There are a few bits that could have used more detail and I'd be more than happy to flesh that out if you want to pop me an email - rolfkraiker@gmail.com I was hoping to do more training videos last year but covid got in the way. Hope to add more content this summer. Its very generous of you to share this video.
In that first drop when you moved the young lad back a bit, I spotted you grabbing the gunnels and making a move getting ready to jump out of the canoe, or am I seeing things? In any case grabbing the gunnels is what you NEVER want to do. Your canoe and gear is sound enough but a few more miles of river experience is needed before you show and tell. Love your spirit too don't let naysayers ruin it and thanks for posting.
BD H, you would be more correct to say YOU never do, as I do it a fair bit in this canoe and thats good for, so maybe follow your own universal made up rules and Im happy to follow the ones that work for me. I do need to look out for the canoe police when Im breaking their rules when Im slding around on a slippery hull, not strapped in or have stuck on knee pads so the best way to stop slamming into the centre thwart or going over the edge is to hang on.
@@bdh3949 I once borrowed and paddled a whitewater canoe with a foam saddle and thigh straps to lock my knees down to the hull. I would buy same if I got into more serious whitwater as low support strokes were important and so effective in that boat settup. In the meantime I will just marvel at those who are thrown and jolted around in a flat open canoe but manage to stay firm on a slippery hull. I know if this situation happened in a kayak while the control would be greater to avoid this situation, the consequences would be so much worse it it did happen. So I may not have as much control, but I am a lot safer holding the gunnel than strapped to the hull
I'l just add, I have been give advice to cross my feet and wedge then in under the seat, then push my knees out into the chines. I have good knees and no pain kneeling all day on then, but my toes and feet do ache when wedged in under the seat. In these short important moments I will be trying doing that in future.
I don't think Roo Canoe needs anymore experience before sharing his experiences. Sharing videos such as this provide great learning tools for everyone. I know that I will be using this video to discuss with peers what we can learn. Paddling canoes in whitewater can go get of shape very quickly as this video shows.
Brokis, I understand when in serious whitewater, large volume, big holes etc, the more floatation bags you fill the canoe up with the more it displaces any water that can fill it up. So thats a great comment in many situations with larger whitewater, but the flow rate on this creek I think the end bags I had assisted enough when submerged, as once the boat was pinned a full centre floatation bags may have saved it and caused it to be pushed up over the rocks, but chances are it may not and it would still have folded once in that position
@@roocanoe6338 Sorry, I meant MORE flotation, lol. Well, yeah, those two bag definitely help, but if you aren't trying to cram luggage in the boat, you might as well put flotation in as much of the boat that isn't taken up by your legs. This can make rescue WAY easier (as only so much water can even fill the boat it the first place), plus, if you set up some sort of hand pumped siphon, you can quickly bail the boat as long as it isn't completely submerged. Not sure if it would have helped with avoiding getting pinned, but it definitely would make rescue substantially easier. Source: all of the whitewater canoeists that I ever see on harder rivers. I am a kayaker myself, so this isn't exactly my own experience, but I RARELY see open hardshell boaters on the river without their boats being stuffed full of floaty- stuff.
