Cardinal Pell: Why there is hope for the Church in Australia 

So all of those thousands of cases in Ballarat of children being raped were all lies?! Please-wake up

Look around at society today and tell me how the ‘new’ values are working out. The only difference to the values Pell is espousing is that they take self discipline, a heart for others before ourselves and taking from tradition those attributes that benefit society Name 3 values that you think Pell might be promulgating that you think are so antiquated that they have no place in modern society ?

@@eddiej9733 gay marriage, marriage of priests, mindlessly following the belief’s of the church whose own traditions are dubious.

@@hollandp9606 thanks for reply. The gay marriage issue has certainly blown up recently, but it’s really only a thing in western societies with the vast majority of the world still being vehemently against it. It may seem bigoted to those who support it, but it’s derived from a very clear biblical directive that anything outside marriage between a man and a woman is a sin. This also covers a multitude of activities currently accepted in western societies. I will add that the Pope has said that whilst it still remains a sin, it’s not a crime. Pell stood by this as well. Anyway, point being is that it may be an unacceptable value to many people, yourself include, the Catholic position now is not one of vilification. That marks it as quite unique amongst all religions Priests marrying. It’s still and always be a central discipline and is grounded in theology and tradition from the early church. It’s often wrongly associated with the rise in child abuse incidences in the 20th century, but the two are distinct. There are many other values that seem to conflict with modern values. Women can’t be ordained, contraception a sin, etc, but they all stem from biblical lore as espoused by Jesus. Point being is that it’s clear that the divide between what the church and society hold as values is widening, but the Church has remained the same for 2000 years. I used to think Pell was an autocratic reactionary, but when you look into what he’s actually saying - it’s pretty much standard Catholic doctrine, and it delivered with the fire and brimstone commonly found with more fundamentalist religious types. But the values do make sense when you look further into them. And they certainly make sense when compared to the new values. Ie/ Love is Love, the new tenet. That’s an umbrella that holds an infinite array of ‘loves’ under it. Listen to those adults who believe that genuine love exists between a male adult and a male child. Most of them psychologically are genuinely driven by the belief that this can be a consensual and loving ‘relationship’. Love can sometimes definitely not love. Anyway, a bloody long winded reply just trying to open the door to the idea that the values of the Catholic Church, the real values, not the ones most people think underpin it, so have relevance today, and that we’re not all religio-bastards.

I’d say that the drift to a more liberal way of life, esp sexually, is a world wide wave that has been occurring since the beginning of the 20th century. Divorce, family breakdown, pornography, sexualisation of youth, multiple sexual partners, sex separated from love and commitment ….. Turns out Pell has been saying the same solid theology all along. Winding that path between ultra conservative and ultra progressives, much the same way John Paul II and Benedict did. Pell will remain a beacon we can look back on and both learn and be inspired by. He will do far greater things now in death, with his recorded and transcribed words and his example throughout one of the greatest legal travesties in Australian history

@@eddiej9733 I wonder if you have discussed your views with your own family. I grew up where violence within family, schools, workplace was common and often ignored by authorities. This is much better. far fewer women and child die from family violence. Personally, I feel there always broken families: we just as society choose never to do anything about such. As for multiple sexual partners. Goosh, those who wish to be celebrant can be with out any denigration: too many women and children were forced to have sex. But adult consensual relationships. They are common among Roman catholic adherents. Cardinal Pells castigation of men and women over sex was appalling. We don't burn Sodom; we are Abraham calling out abuse of power.

@@russellmiles2861 Pells castigation of men and women over sex - what specifically Think if it from a child’s perspective. All children want their parents together. I realise there are times when that’s not possible because of genuine abuse, but the vast majority of separations and divorces occur due to more selfish reasons. I wasn’t being fulfilled, my path went a different way, he/she just didn’t get me. All can be justified from the adults point of view, but none from the child’s As for multiple partners. Everyone wants to be with someone who hasn’t been with a lot of people. To know that others have been intimate with the one you love….. most people think it’s just sex. But it’s far far more. You are forever bonded to that person. It precludes a genuinely and exclusively intimate eventual partnership. I am not a prude by any stretch. And have been with multiple partners. And have been with partners who have been with multiple partners. Having ex’s hanging around is an aweful experience. Anyway. I don’t want to diminish your experience at all, and in these situations, leaving, divorcing etc is often the only option. Myself? I separated from my wife, was in a longer term relationship after that, but realised that although loving(ish) etc, my kids still hated it. Blended families are in the whole disasters even when there’s an attempt to make it work. I realised that I had to seperate to show my kids they were my number one. That I had left their mum because of selfish reasons. I’ll never reconcile with their mum, but I realised that the Catholic teaching of no divorce came straight from Jesus. And I intend to follow through with that. Anyway. The Church’s teachings (all directly from Jesus) are an almost impossibly high bar. But that high bar is justified and right. That’s not to say I condemn at all others who find their own way. But I think I’m justified in supporting Pells stance of simply supporting the Church teaching. There is so much misery in the world around a wrong way of regarding sex. One of the worst is sexual obsession. Always thinking of it and wanting it. Viewing material that enflames desires. Even print media, TV, Facebook etc has material that gets the blood flowing. Not being a prude at all, but when you realise that peoples sex buttons are being stimulated (sorry, could resist that one) constantly, it’s overwhelming. There’s another, healthier way. I can say that I’ve never had such meaningful and satisfying sex as I did with my wife. That’s even ending up living with a woman that fulfilled every desire and fantasy. But, the foundation wasn’t right. Haha. Your right. Some of the greatest breaker of church doctrines are Catholics themselves (myself included) BUT the benchmark set by Jesus still remains the perfect model, and we should aspire to that rather than dismiss is as being unrealistic

@@eddiej9733 I imagine we'll disagree. But yes, I imagine my children would rather have not lost their mother so young. But aside from grief I don't believe they were disadvantaged. There were plenty of family, friends, teachers, doctors and others. There is no scientific evidence that children are effected by being raised by other than birth parents. About 1:50-1:20 children are raised by relatives, friends, neighbours. There is no evidence that the sex or sexual orientation of parents is an issue. Cardinal Pell spent a career denigrating women, same sex parents, aunts and others whom raised children . As for folk having preferences about husbands wives based on sexual partners. Again, you are entitled to such views. I have never met anyone with such an attitude. My present wife seems to think it fascinating. Again, there is no evidence of such. This is just an ideology or opinion. But none of this matters: under Cardinal Pell's watch participation in the Roman Catholic church fell to its lowest level recorded. A 2018 Church life Survey found 27% of respondents selected that they believed in a god. Of course due to migration the Roman Catholic church is not as in decline as Anglican Uniting Church Lutheran etc. But doing not as bad in Christian leadership is not much of a result for a life's work.

@@russellmiles2861 goodness, when a spouse passes or needs to be divorced due to violence of course there is absolutely nothing wrong with re- partnering. I sincerely apologise if that’s the way my obviously clumsy post read. And of course human experiences and lives are messy. And tragic. And people other than birth parents make wonderful and loving co-raisers of children I think my point is that beyond the extraordinary circumstances, the divorces that come from selfish circumstances point to a slide in child wellbeing. I researched blended families when i had one and the stats are stunning. 80% of all blended families end in divorce. Studies that interview children of blended families as adults reveal that deep down, the bulk of ‘kids’ lamented that they weren’t in their original family situation, and although the incidences of the evil step mother or father were rare, most interviewed felt they were in a family that suited the parents at the detriment of the kids. But as I said. When circumstances dictate through tragedy etc, kids actual benefit from having two parents. The stats of kids in single parent families aren’t great. Great Depression and anxiety. More chance of crime. Greater suicide rates. Previous partners. I think as a society we’ve just had to get used to it. Since the sexual revolution of the 60s the wider population feel that it’s ok. But the older you get, the more you can see that this isn’t ideal. I don’t think you have to be the jealous type to feel uneasy around your partners previous partners. I would bet my entire years salary on most guys, deep down, would much prefer a partner who didn’t have a huge body count. I’m fact would prefer a virgin. I know that sounds crazy, but if your after a true partner. Someone who you want to join completely with, I guarantee that most men, most decent men would prefer a low body count woman. The Catholic church’s declining attendance is much bigger than Pells responsibility Ironically the resin the Church of England will virtually disappear in less than another decade is they want to appeal to the world, water down the basic tenets taught by Jesus. I actually see a resurgence in an intellectual approach by many to the Catholic Church. Any let me say and Christian who vilifies or promulgates any hatred toward those that might fall into the sun category, really aren’t Christian’s. The Catholic Church is going through a bit of a revolution under this current pope who’s about engaging with all, rather than sitting back and screaming sinner. That’s never been the intent of the church. Currently the Pope is receiving heavy fire for his latest utterance that while homosexual acts remain a sin, they are not a crime. From both sides. I think Pells sternness is reserved only for those who are attempting to rewrite what is normative. The family of a father and mother is normative. I don’t think I’ve ever seen him hook into the exceptions of the normative rule. Anyway, I can see how even my feeble attempts to provide nuance is clunky and seems to fly directly in the face of very personal and real situations for you, your partner and kids. As a younger Catholic i too thought he was a brittle reactionary… but that was because he was opposed to my more progressive thoughts of how the church should be. But with age and much more investigation into the events and text of the bible I began to realise that it’s not a punitive system of belief, that behind the stupidity floral church actions and ceremonies, behind what I felt was a troupe of incipid priests, cover ups of abuse etc was in fact an incredibly rich and rigorous theology and history. Anyway. Sounds like you’ve really done well following some earlier tragedies and the last thing I want to do is have a drag out blue where that comes into play and you are arguing to justify that to some bloke who seems to be rigidly defending a church that for most of his life he railed against and rejected as well. Appreciate you sharing your story.