Thank you for clearing up so much confusion I’ve had regarding this remarkable family and the beautiful art they pioneered. This was really well presented in such a short video! Thank you so much!! 🙏🏻😎
I recently joined Gracie Barra university here in Honolulu Hawaii with my two boys. I’ve met great people with so much knowledge in Jiu Jitsu. It’s been only 3 weeks. Lot more to learn.
@@michaelbanks2401 I am sad to say that about couple years ago, not very long after joining our coach had to move away from the Island. Since then I have not trained or join another dojo. I’ve enjoyed it and looking forward to training again when that right time comes.
I don't practice Jiu-Jitsu, but I find the family absolutely fascinating. I listened to a long podcast interview with Reila Gracie (Roger Gracie's mother) and it is interesting how close the family was even though they seem to have developed this family rivalry. She talks about how close she was with her Uncle Helio and the numerous interviews she did with him when preparing for her book. It was very interesting.
Cant we all just get along?? Love the family! Love the art! And remember in the end your brothers and sisters in this beautiful art will have your back! Every individual is diffrent but the art is perfect!! OSS
Tim Leophard class act response! I know this guy he's a stud under Clark Gracie! He never says 2 words to anyone! To see this post is crazy! He's like an urban legend.
Another awesome video. I had a general idea that there was a split in the Gracie family, but understood it was more along the lines of the philosophy of what should be taught rather than actual animosity. This video pretty much explained how it came about. My son trains Gracie Barra, and while they do put in some self defense, it's definitely more focused on Ju Jitsu Vs Ju Jitsu.
i'm not sure i'd say there's actual animosity, per se. i have none toward anyone, and i haven't come across any, either. differences of opinion, perhaps. but no animosity.
First and foremost honor both Grand-masters. I started in the Sports BJJ world not knowing the whole story between BJJ and GJJ. I began competing in local grappling tournaments. I had a friend who invited me to a GJJ school and I was sold. I am Prior military and kind of love street fighting. I found that GJJ has a complete system of fighting. We always start stand up and do a lot of striking and we end classes with ground techniques. We basically learn to fight with no rules where as my old BJJ school we mostly grapple and start on our knees. I have had the opportunity to meet some amazing BJJ Instuctors and I personally had the opportunity to meet Rorion, Royce and Rickson Gracie at our school seminars. In a nutshell, GJJ does focus on self defense! But do not let the term self defense fool you. Our striking class mimics street fighting with gloves and without gloves which incorporates kicks, punches, elbows, take downs and grappling. I believe it depends on what you want to learn. I found that GJJ fits my needs. Much Respect to the whole Gracie Family and always respect the roots. I am a student of Valente Brothers Jiu Jitsu.
AdamIsForGiants: From what I understand, someone convinced an important Gracie that the letter R has some kind of mystical power. Since that day the children were to have names beginning with R. Heres an interview Helio did in 2001 www.global-training-report.com/helio2.htm and here is an interview with Rorion in 1994.. blog.aikidojournal.com/2011/08/27/interview-with-rorion-gracie-by-james-williams-and-stanley-pranin/
they like first letters that give a "hard" sound, like R, C, and K. I also heard Carlson, Sr had a different name when he was born, but Carlos, Sr had come to the belief after Carlson's birth, so he changed his name to Carlson.
I am a Japanese JuJutsu practitioner and I have been really interested in Jiu-Jitsu. This is really enlightening to me, since I had no Idea that there was a difference in how BJJ and GJJ. Please keep spreading the knowledge!
I knew a little bit of that story but man you broke it down great. I learned a lot. When it was over I didn't realize I was watching for 20 minutes. Thanks for sharing....
To Kama Jiu-Jitsu: I just want to say I loved the way you explain the differences of BJJ & GJJ, it gave me a great insight, I don't practice martial arts (or any sport due to a heart condition) but I love hearing any kind of history of martial arts. I don't know if this is possible but could you one day talk about the first generation Gracies (Carlos Sr., and all his brothers including Helio). I was always curious about them, most everyone knows about Carlos Sr. and Helio but I always wanted to find out about the brothers in between the two. Anyways, thank you and all respect to you. Please stay safe and stay healthy.
I trained under Carley Gracie. He absolutely stressed self-defense first in everything before sports fighting. He always talked about being ready for a street fight. It is very hard to stomach modern BJJ with everything focused on tournaments. He emphasized you had to have a stand-up game for self-defense. He also taught many judo throws.
Prof . Ryan, I know this is an old post, but I think "Self-defense" vs"Sport" is too vague to describe the difference. Socrates XLIX's response quoting GM Carley is exactly how I've heard Ryron and Rener explain it. You usually invite others to post a video with their arguments, but I am only a white belt in GJJ. Perhaps a video explaining what is meant by sport or self defense and their associated philosophies would be good? I agree with GM Carley's statement, Ryron's and Rener's explanation, and even Rickson says a true black belt should know both self defense and sport.
Wow, I know very little about the history. I know my experience in my gym. We have Helio Gracie on our wall, and they are a self defense gym. It's a humbling experience. Thank you for your knowledge!
thanks for explaining - never even knew about the schism but picked up that there was a bit of a falling out between certain members. This makes it nice and clear. I'm on the Helio side.
Love everything about this video. Great review of history as well. I’ve read some replies below and I have to say for myself that I found zero bias here. What I took out of this is “Love” for self defense. In short, the Self Defense in JiuJitsu is becoming diluted. There is no way around it; and unfortunately I feel a divide will come from it. I for one will always and forever seek SelfDefense JiuJitsu and Instruction. I just wish there was an easy way o preserve GJJ in areas that are dominated by BJJ. I for one will not get caught up in “he said she said” or point blame on others. I’m very knowledgeable in the lineage/history of this family, and what’s important here is - preserving the roots of self defense regardless of who waters the soil. Thank you for the insight Professor 👏
Thank you for the history break down. I am very interested in GJJ because of the self defense focus but I only see mostly BJJ around me.. one in particular seems pretty prestigious but I am worried the focus on sport may open up flaws in self defense and that’s what I am trying to get from my jiu jitsu journey in life ... I’m current just started at a BJJ gym but not Barra officiated and I’m new and there aren’t many white belts so many days the higher belts get the majority of the training and if it wasn’t this way I’d be much happier because the instructor is a world champion and was on ultimate fighter Brazil he’s incredibly good, and also does Krav Maga so he knows self defense my issue is one the level of concentration on us lower level people with no experience, and also although he’s a self defense instructor the classes seem more sport oriented... I’m going to stick with this for the remainder of my contract with the gym if I don’t see any sort of improvement in said areas of concern I was thinking of Garcie Barra or really GJJ but it will be much more difficult logistically for me
This is such a good explanation of a topic that a lot of people have grown tired of hearing about that it actually makes it interesting again. Well done. Subscribing
Sorry for the split in your family, I hope this gets resolved, there is no reason why traditional and sport can not live as one. I have done a few types of Japanese jui jitsui myself and nearly all martial arts have moves involved in other martial arts. However I would not use it as a sport myself, it is not my way even when I trained in Muay Thai. Best of luck.
Enjoyed the video, good presentation with question answered in regards to the differences of BJJ and GJJ and the lineage and interesting history of a large family.
Very good video! Good analysis of a very intricate story. I started training with Rorion almost 40 years ago, at that time there was only GJJ, but in my opinion BJJ is more like a brand to explore (in a good sense) business opportunities. Of course most academies mainly focus on training for competition, however most of the “old school” Jiu Jitsu is there too. Regards from Brazil.
The one who is the most important is/was Mitsuyo Maeda... If Maeda never taught either CG or HG Jujutsu, none of this (BJJ/GJJ) would ever be because they wouldn't have had anything to build upon or "improve". Therefore, there is no BJJ or GJJ, only Jujutsu in its evolved form due to the millions of practitioners, not 2 guys or one family..Lastly, just because someone discovers a few new techniques and/or variations of moves belonging to a centuries old fighting style, that is not enough to say you've changed what something is.
What do you think about Eddie Bravo? I personally think his combat jiu jitsu tourneys are a good example of a way to combine the sport and self defense aspects of jiu jitsu.
This was really interesting. I wish we could all just see that we all love the same art. BJJ and BJJ and both forms of jujitsu. This divide seems pointless to me because of that
A few questions... Who awarded Carlos SR, and Helio their black belts, and how long did it take each of them to obtain them? Why is it never mentioned that Helio held a 6th degree in Judo at the time of his death?
I am reading Choque It starts in yr 1908ish with a little back story to 1901 and works from there chronologically the info mostly derived from newspapers from Rio and San Paulo, By 1934 Carlos had 3 maybe 4 professional fights, Helio had a few and his career was starting to take off. However the 2nd oldest George was the main fighter for the family at the time who also studied Luta Livra as well. The main teacher of the Gracies was Danato Reis . I am in year 1936 and and without Carlos promotion and management in the beginning we wouldn't be having this conversation about the Gracies. I study at a Royce school
Thanks for the video. You seem to know a lot about the Gracie's. I saw a video of Ryan Gracie bashing rorion for how he double crossed rickson by having him sign his rights away to fight in America. Is this true? Did Rorion also not allow other gracies to use the "Gracie jiu jitsu" for their schools?
Some professors are bringing both together, just not as a mainstream federation, but as a school. I am currently a senior white belt under Kyle Watson, who got their black belt from Jack McVivker-Megaton Diaz-Royler Gracie. We are highly competive but always add in the self defense side of a technique, if it applies. When a gym can remain laid back and friendly while keeping the jiu jitzu serious and fast paced, it's a great thing. A point is made to have entire parts of some series focusing defending against a swinging opponent.
What's your lineage in wrestling, boxing and muay Thai? None, I guess, these things don't exist. I always hated the whole Chinese and Japanese lineage system in martial arts. Counter productive
Xristos Rizos Asian culture prides itself on lineage. It’s extremely important. Most martial arts (even the ones above) have lineages. It just isn’t as important
Really? Carlson Gracie was a "sport jiu jitsu" guy? My lineage is Fadda and Carlson, all due respect but this theory you have is not the "differences" and what divided the family.
+R W, he was not, but there is no denying that his team was one of the most prolific competition teams in history (Arrebentacao, is what I think it was called). So you're Nova Uniao? Big competition team. Founded by a big competition organizer. But I'm not denying the Carlson. Sr guys also did a lot of Vale Tudo back in the day.
I’m curious about exactly what the Gracies did originally. Maeda was a ne-waza expert as I understand. So he knew something about jujutsu/judo ground techniques. The jiu Jitsu we have now has many moves that Helio never had anything to do with. My question is whether Helio and Carlos really did much different from Maeda. All I’ve heard is from dummies who think that the judo you learn today is what Maeda did, and the Jiu Jitsu you learn today is what Carlos and Helio did.
What they basically did is... 1) learn from Maeda 2) teach it to all their male family members 3) market their family art to the Brazilian masses through challenge matches 4) Rorion brought us the UFC, which is how most learned of the art 5) Carlos, Jr picked up from there by bringing Gracie Barra to the masses around the world. So, we can debate what the gracies did to develop the actual art, but if not for the gracies, most of us would not be having this judo vs Jiu-Jitsu debate, thinking Bruce Lee was the greatest martial artist of all time.
I wanted to know as well. I'm Brazilian and never heard about Helio and Carlo's brothers. I discovered they existed through research but I could not find material about their descendents.
+Az Urban Fit . com, carlos and rigan were originally brought to CA by Rorion to teach in the SoCal garage(s). They had already begun their own academy by the time I arrived in CA in '92. Relson told me to train with his brothers when I moved, so I did. Not sure what brought Joe there. I used to see him and gustavo at my friend's house (prof mauricio Costa) every Sunday in the mid-90s when I went to get beat up by Mauricio (haha), but I never got to to speak much with him.
People think Helio was a genius and all by himself, with basically no influence from other arts like catch wrestling, develop BJJ. Which is one of the various lies to perpetuate the myth of Helio and BJJ.
In a youtube interview, GM Helio Gracie Last Interview @21:40, Helio said Carlos Sr never put on a gi it was himself that did the training. Same interview he said he was taught Japanese jiu jitsu by Carlos but he himself invented bjj
who knows? i wasn't there. i just try to interpret what i do know and come to certain conclusions (which can be changed as more info comes in). in the end, it's fun to play with this stuff, but i still just train the same, regardless.
Ya this is the glaring point im not 100% on in clarity. The story i read was Helio being small framed, used what his brother was teaching, japanese ju jutsu, to create something that suited him more. Although i dont quite understand that, have you seen an average japanese? They can be comparatively small framed.
scott jenkins it wouldn't surprise me. Asian arts are centuries upon centuries old. With little yo no fan fare, research in the west. Its not to fault anyone. The east is not a boastful part of the world. In fact for most they typically could care less whats happening here. I suspect part of the story hasn't fully been investigated. But for whats its worth, the Gracie's certainly brought jiu jitsu to the modern world stage via UFC1-3. Oss.
that is true. the techniques are also in the old judo books, as well. i know for a fact that a lot (probably the majority) of techniques we do in Gracie Jiu-Jitsu/BJJ were not invented by Helio. I do think he (and Carlos, Sr) changed the MENTALITY of judo to make GJJ unique. think of anything that is worth doing; you'll always have an individual who tweaks things to make it better for them, while also making it better for others, as well. sometimes those tweaks contribute to the betterment of the art, sometimes, they die off. Seeing how GJJ/BJJ continues to thrive alongside judo, i think the Gracie family members who have contributed have done well for the art as a whole.
The subject is way more complicated, given the fact that there's differences of opinion within the family. How about the Vale Tudo and closed door matches they held against other styles?
I hear this a lot about most martial arts as well, and for the people that ask me what I think, I Always say this, WHO cares what this is or what that is as long as you are happy in what you are learning, and as long as you are learning some form of self defence, what does it matter. Train Hard, Train Smart, Train For Reality. And have fun. When people start splitting hears over this form or that form it takes away your respect for others, it reduces you to this narrow-minded person that thinks they have all the rights to put shit on other arts, WELL you don't, RESPECT, people that is the foremost and fundamental part of any martial art, so stop this bullshit, and Respect your fellow artists no matter what they learn, I train in Wing Chun, I think it is a really good art for me, BUT I also have the greatest respect for Jiu-Jitsu, I like how the Gracie team teach, it is good training for a reality situation, and that is why I like it, Does that mean I am going to go and learn it, no, I like doing Wing Chun. At the end of the day it all comes down to what you like to learn, and what your preferences are and that's it, THAT is where you should leave it, and so will I, Thanks guys you keep training and stay safe.
+Paul Gains I love wing Chun. One of my first instructors (who was a purple belt under GM Relson back in HI at the time and now a long time GJJ black belt professor), was a wing Chun WiFi long before he started GJJ. He used to do sticky hands on me when I was in his guard and he’d mess me up!
I'm guessing you're lineage is Helios side. My roots are with Renzo, as in NYC / Danaher etc. and this is totally off from my perspective. But you know those online belts are awesome for self defense. Idk about GB as I've only trained right outside Houston w/ Draculino and it wasn't "sport" based either, not when I was there. Biased, though I am too
Larry Medina aren't you missing the elephant in the room. Royce Gracie, Helio's son. It was his performance at UFC 1 that birthed MMA as we know it. Back then no one was really cross training martial arts, it was a test to see what was most effective martial arts in most limited rules settings g. The point was proven after that. Now everyone incorporates BJJ into their game.I think it is great that the schools for ex. like Renzo's and Carlos.Jr. among many others (Carlos Sr) are continuing to prove BJJ effective in competition MMA and examples like Rener, Ryron, Sauer and the Valenets have made it a point to still teach basically self-defense for average joe non athlete guy. There's something for everyone.
Circling back to this video in light of Robert Drysdale‘s historical arguments that he is claiming and that I just recently discovered. I haven’t read his book, but I have heard him on a couple of podcasts. What say you on this Prof Ryan?
Such B.S - The decedents of Carlos Gracie are inspired by Rolls Gracie in continuing to reinvent themselves and acquire more knowledge, Helio's descendants had their heyday in the early UFC, refused to revolutionize themselves, and after the world caught up and they started getting their butts kicked they turned into the karate masters they so much disparaged and started talking about "the real jiu jitsu cant be used in modern UFC rabble rabble rabble." For all newbs find a bjj school from Carlos' decedents cuz you'll not only learn the foundation of bjj but you'll learn how to sprawl, shoot an appropriate double leg, and if you want learn how to throw a jab. Their are exceptions to this rule, like the Diaz brothers who are well rounded, but must Helio decedents are as close minded as the kung fu masters they used to make fun of.
I am under Sandro Sampaio who was taught directly by Carlson Gracie. We often will discuss the difference between street and competition. We have an understanding of what the difference is, and we do striking classes to round out our skills. This guy is really biased and uninformed in alot of his videos unfortunately. While we do compete, that doesn't mean we don't understand the difference between competing and defending ourselves.
do you have merch with that shark logo? would love to own some. I collect the various Gracie schools stuff. I have some Gracie University from NYC, but always on the look out for the off shoot schools merch.
Thank you for the great breakdown! For me it's about being respectful enough towards your students to let them know when a technique is more sport oriented or more self defense oriented. For example, last week I taught the technical stand-up to my students against a standing opponent and explained that in a self defense situation that the technical stand-up is one of your best options when you've already been knocked down, etc. I then proceeded to show some De La Riva Guard techniques since it's a great guard against a standing opponent in a sport-oriented situation. I feel the responsibility to people I teach to show them both so they are prepared for both types of situations. I love sport jiu-jistu and it's primarily what I train but I think instructors have a responsibility to their students to explain to them when they are being shown a technique that doesn't have much self-defense applicability. For their own safety off the mats, those people have put their faith in you to prepare them to defend themselves even if a school is more sport-oriented. They simply don't know what they don't know. Sounds like your school has a very mature attitude toward all of this. I hope more instructors can embrace the attitude of a more holistic approach to jiu-jitsu like it seems you're promoting.
Just curious. What is it about sport jujitsu you like? To each their own. I feel like sport jujitsu is a waste of time. Because it’s unrealistic. And requires a person to be athletic to preform most of the sport techniques. I feel the self defense is so simple. And anyone can preform them. Oss! 🤙🏻🤙🏻🤙🏻🤙🏻
@@stur6722 TLDR: Because it's fun as hell! I guess I enjoy jiu-jitsu as a sport purely unto itself. Like I might if I was playing basketball. Nobody's gonna say "Oh, well working on your 3-pointer isn't going to help you out in a real fight." Don't get me wrong, I certainly appreciate the self-defense aspect of jiu-jitsu and that's really why I got into it in the first place. But beyond a certain level of training (I'd say purple belt) continuing to train jiu-jitsu purely for self-defense purposes seems like over-specialization. Seems like it would make more sense to train muay thai, western boxing, judo or wrestling, or just "MMA". I enjoy training jiu-jitsu because it keeps me mentally and physically "alive" and the sport aspect keeps it interesting for me. Kinda like chess I suppose.
Politics, Politics!! The martial arts are riddled with it including my old art of Tomiki Aikido!!!... I like all the martial arts having practised MA since I was 14 years of age... Judo, Western-style boxing, Goju ryu Karate, Wing chun gung fu and lastly Tomiki Aikido for 18 years... In the end, I went my own way and now just practice & teach what I enjoy and what works for me!! Without all the damn politics!! I'm now 65 and still enjoy what I do and I'll teach it for free to anyone who is interested in what I do... Simples...
All Helio's sons were sport competitore. So I don't understand the continous underlin the difference between BJJ and GJJ. Then Carlos Sr was the JJ creator, but the visionary innovator in JJ was Carlson Sr
Excellent video and explanation. My professor teaches Rickson’s curriculum. Agreed, it is taught for self-defense. Interesting to see how the competition side developed.
Oh no I don't really see a bias he's just explaining a versus B. And this is from someone whose only been rolling for 2 months so I don't know the history so I don't have a bias or a preconceived belief. This looks very clear concise thought out and which side I would like to go into. Do I want to go more the competition route or do I want to go to the learning for learning stick route. Both are valid but both have ups and downs and he's just explain those. Or at least that's how I see this I could be wrong it's been known to happen.
Thank you for the video and your explanation of the distinction between Gracie Jiu Jitsu and Brazilian Jiu Jitsu. At 6:30 into the video: You mentioned that slamming an opponent is against the IBJJ rules. How can I defend against an arm bar, if I can't slam? Thanks again; keep up the good work.
Slamming is legit. But it’ll get you a DQ in competition. Best remedy, is to not let the guy set your arm up in the first place, then you won’t have to choose between losing in a BS situation by tapping, or losing by DQ for slamming him.
Kama Jiu-Jitsu first off Kron wasn’t even taught by Rickson. Keon has said this many times, the IBJJF doesn’t have schools like you say in the video, as well as the constant bias against the Carlos side. You say that it doesn’t matter which Gracie taught Carlos’s sons but then it matters enough for you to basically call Carson Sr a liar. I could go on and on. I get your intentions with the video but you’re stating all of this strictly as a Hélio/Self Defense advocate.
ok, let's see now... Kron was taught by Rickson (and Henry Akins). and when you say "wasn't even taught by Rickson" are you saying at some point in Prof Kron's life, or are you saying "at all?" if you're saying for that period of time while Rickson was living in Brazil, then i get what you're saying. if you're saying "at all" then i would call you a liar. what schools are you referring to? constant bias against carlos' side (that statement is itself biased). i tried to be fair. sorry you heard it the way you heard it. we all have a natural bias in that sense (including me). me calling Carlson, Sr a liar. How so? because Helio taught him? Because GM Reyson (Carlos Sr's 3rd son, making him pretty up there in the "in the know" heirarchy) said Uncle Helio taught all of them. A lot of Carlos' sons are known to have a disdain for GM Helio and of course are going to say they weren't taught by Helio, even though 1) Carlos taught very little (it's said from many sources) once Helio took on the role of teaching/running the Gracie Academy, 2) based on the chronology of who is saying they weren't taught by helio vs those who say helio taught them just makes no sense. go on... we are Rickson self-defense advocates. there. i said it.
After a certain time Carlos Gracie never put on a kimono again except for pictures. He was the one who spent most of his time organizing his families fights and dedicated a lot of time to the study of nutrition. Helio was the one who spent most of his time fighting and teaching all the way until he passed away.
Interesting to look into this family to see some of the history. I just joined a Gracie family BJJ following the Carlos Sr. side but the teacher says he will teach practical self-defense also. I hope so... that's what I really want to learn.
@@rhinobridge Can't say for sure. Haven't been back in months due to an (attempted) job change and had an injury from a shoulder lock drill that still hasn't healed since I was last there. Not sure what happened--but rest alone hasn't healed it and I'm going to have to go get it looked at when I get a chance. Life was a bit too busy to see a doctor during job upheaval and things are just starting to settle down again.
