Catching EVERY Shiny Dragon Pokemon

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Hey guys, EternalRadiant here and I’m back with the long awaited shiny dragon video! I spent 2 weeks catching every shiny dragon pokemon in scarlet and violet, and it was quite the journey and I’m happy that I get to share it with you all. I hope you all enjoy the video!
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#pokemon #shinypokemon #pokemonscarletandviolet

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Опубликовано:

7 июл 2023

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Комментарии : 436

@EternalRadiant 11 месяцев назад

OMG I'VE BEEN PRONOUNCING AXEW WRONG THIS WHOLE TIME LMAOOOO I DIDNT KNOW IT WAS AXE - YOO

@nabinator1232 11 месяцев назад

My favorite pokemon is Axew

@altrxceyt2949 11 месяцев назад

Bro everytime you say Axew we have to say bless you💀

@AronicusGAMING 11 месяцев назад

People pronounce pokemon in their own way, I didn't care

@jeevanadithya8230 11 месяцев назад

can i please get a shoutout

@Kade621 11 месяцев назад

You also miss Charizard

@liamoleary4641 11 месяцев назад

Bro didn’t just catch all the dragons, he Ev trained, max levelled, and gave competitive moves and natures to every single one!

@EternalRadiant 11 месяцев назад

Haha Yeahh that’s the whole goal for me :)

@YYangles 11 месяцев назад

You put in so much effort you’ve inspired me to get back into shiny hunting

@EternalRadiant 11 месяцев назад

Appreciate it! Goodluck with all your shiny hunts :)

@c.h.a.r.l.i.e.z.a.r.d 11 месяцев назад

@@EternalRadiantsame!!

@DaneOrschlovsky 11 месяцев назад

@@EternalRadiantout here changing lives 😂

@EternalRadiant 11 месяцев назад

finally free from the dragons!!....for now

@arandomxenomorph9271 11 месяцев назад

Hydreigon will always be my #1 Pokemon, He’s saved me from so many things, plus I find multiple headed things very interesting.

@EternalRadiant 11 месяцев назад

Haha that last part made me chuckle 😂

@alexburrows6160 11 месяцев назад

underrated channel

@EternalRadiant 11 месяцев назад

Appreciate it :))

@CobAnimates 9 месяцев назад

That adventure time reference with naming the appletun tree trunks made me feel so happy

@EternalRadiant 9 месяцев назад

Glad someone noticed :)

@Once-antifurryman9676 11 месяцев назад

Congrats on the grind! Can't wait for the alpha shiny pikachu coming up!

@EternalRadiant 11 месяцев назад

Appreciate it! Still working on trying to find it but soon hopefully!

@aurual6272 11 месяцев назад

I love the fact that you always train your Pokémon and make sure they are perfect Ivs!

@EternalRadiant 11 месяцев назад

Haha yeah! My perfectionist side gets fulfilled in doing so

@emalix 11 месяцев назад

amazing video as always !! always looking forward to watch these while shiny hunting myself !!!

@EternalRadiant 11 месяцев назад

Hehe thank you :) appreciate the kind words

@Solune-2175 11 месяцев назад

I'm not sure but I think you can sometimes get apicorn balls (like the friend ball) through auctions in porto marinada

@EternalRadiant 11 месяцев назад

Yeahh you can! I am just very lazy to reset and get them 😂

@Solune-2175 11 месяцев назад

@@EternalRadiantI think that the fact you give ribbons and EV train all your shinys is insane and takes way more time than reset for apicorn balls in the auction house

@CheshireEclipse 11 месяцев назад

Oml this is very useful info for me

@EternalRadiant 11 месяцев назад

@@Solune-2175wait this is true 😂😂😂

@testerwulf3357 11 месяцев назад

@@Solune-2175 Selective laziness 😆I get it

@CeruleanSquid 10 месяцев назад

I love your videos! Been watching them back to back to pass some time, they're very entertaining and fun to watch!

@EternalRadiant 10 месяцев назад

Haha thx for the kind words ❤️

@SwedePotato314 10 месяцев назад

You’re gonna be making videos like Sxperpotion, BlueVactor and Nokion. I’m so here for this new channel 💙

@EternalRadiant 10 месяцев назад

Those guys are some of the people I look up to in this RU-vid space haha. Thank you for the kind words ❤️

@mikkilodeon02 11 месяцев назад

obsessed with your videos!! can't wait for the ghost type

@EternalRadiant 11 месяцев назад

Seems like a lot of people want ghost 👀 thank you and good luck with your hunts :)

@Squawks7 11 месяцев назад

Your vids are so good man!! Best of luck on ur shiny living dex boss

@EternalRadiant 11 месяцев назад

Appreciate it thank you so much :D

@yiotisnicolaou5575 11 месяцев назад

So entertaining as always keep its up bro Also completely understandable about the bagon evolution line bro i feel you !

@EternalRadiant 11 месяцев назад

Appreciate the kind words, thank you! :D

@MantineMatt 11 месяцев назад

Any video with Shiny Applin is a good video!! CONGRATS MAN

@EternalRadiant 11 месяцев назад

thank you appreciate it :D

@DaneOrschlovsky 11 месяцев назад

Get HYPE for Dragon Type!

@EternalRadiant 11 месяцев назад

WOOOO

@xanderlacey9627 11 месяцев назад

6k subs is way too little your content and dedication is outlandish, proud to be one of the 6 thousand

@EternalRadiant 11 месяцев назад

That means a lot to me, thank you 🥲❤️

@gabrielloffler4319 11 месяцев назад

I like your videos and you inspired me to make a shiny living dex too. Please keep it up

@_DewGaming 11 месяцев назад

I think it would be fun if you also got the evolutions that are possible through other games as well. Like, if you do a video on grass, you would get a Petlil and Lilligant, but then you get a second Petlil specifically to evolve in Hisui to get Hisuian Lilligant

@EternalRadiant 11 месяцев назад

Oooh smart smart!

@robbie1523 11 месяцев назад

YAYYY YOU HAVE POSTED A NEW ONE i love your videos and im also doing a shiny living dex

@EternalRadiant 11 месяцев назад

Thank you! Goodluck with your shiny living dex! :D

@FutureDude 11 месяцев назад

very cool i love how much effort you put in!

@EternalRadiant 11 месяцев назад

Thank you :)

@Blindfold371 11 месяцев назад

Love your videos!! The content and effort put in is amazing! My favorite dragon type would probably be either shiny Giratina or shiny White Kyurem.

@EternalRadiant 11 месяцев назад

Thank you appreciate it :) I love both of those shinies too o.o shiny giratina is one of my favorites

@Jeredinhio 11 месяцев назад

Great vids man! I've been here since day 1 🎉

@EternalRadiant 11 месяцев назад

Thank you! Glad to have you :)

@nell_nox 11 месяцев назад

My favorite dragon Type is Goomy. So small and no thoughts behind those eyes. Thank you for your videos! I like to watch them while shiny hunting myself. :)

@EternalRadiant 11 месяцев назад

Goomy is what I aspire to be on a daily basis 😂 appreciate the kind words :)

@gastdefender9625 11 месяцев назад

I love the dragon type pokemon and its great you found all 34!

@EternalRadiant 11 месяцев назад

It was quite a long journey but I’m glad I found all of them too :)

@phantomations191 11 месяцев назад

4:42 So the Deino line are based on the german words for 1, 2, and 3 (Eins, Zwei, Drei). Deino is pronounced Dine-o, Zweilous is pronounced Z-vy-lus, and Hydreigon is pronounced High-dry-gon.

@EternalRadiant 11 месяцев назад

Oooh good to know! Thank you for the information :D

@phantomations191 11 месяцев назад

@@EternalRadiant No problem and great video!

@y0ip604 11 месяцев назад

My first full odds shiny was an axew back in gen 6. I'm glad to see shiny axew getting love.

@EternalRadiant 11 месяцев назад

Dang what an amazing shiny to get, esp full odds back in the day, congrats!

@ChonkyToad 11 месяцев назад

The lord has graced us with another banger. Keep going you f*cking legend.

@EternalRadiant 11 месяцев назад

Glad to see you back! Thank you :))

@ChonkyToad 11 месяцев назад

@@EternalRadiant Just to let you know... I still haven't found groudon.

@EternalRadiant 11 месяцев назад

@@ChonkyToad NOOOOOOOOOO 😭

@D3JON 11 месяцев назад

Love these videos makes me want to hunt for all the shinies

@EternalRadiant 11 месяцев назад

Dooo it, it’s fun :) thank you for the comment

@manuellopez22 11 месяцев назад

Why is this Video so SATISFYING 😩😩😩, great content my guy.

@EternalRadiant 11 месяцев назад

Appreciate it thank you 🙏

@naftyy_ 11 месяцев назад

BEAUTIFUL VIDEO 11/10 WOULD WATCH AGAIN

@EternalRadiant 11 месяцев назад

THE GOAT ❤️

@yarionette 11 месяцев назад

Dragon type is my favorite type and it is good seeing someone hunt for them all in this region.

@EternalRadiant 11 месяцев назад

Haha it definitely feels amazing owning them all shiny!

@ShadowVoid06 11 месяцев назад

Thank you for always putting out good content its fun t watch keep it up.

@EternalRadiant 11 месяцев назад

appreciate the kind words thank you

@xT0P0 11 месяцев назад

Whew the loads of work here are worth a sub for sure

@EternalRadiant 11 месяцев назад

Thank you! I spent so long training them all up 😭

@kingpizzachu 11 месяцев назад

Another great vid from you! Its a shame kingdra isnt in sv - love that shiny

@EternalRadiant 11 месяцев назад

They need to free kingdra 😭 love it’s shiny too

@youngxking2474 11 месяцев назад

Zoro for Fraxure is a perfect name how have I never seen that before

@EternalRadiant 11 месяцев назад

Haha I named mine Roronoa the family name cuz she was a girl, but the name def matches

@chrissugalski 11 месяцев назад

I wish the galar fossils were in Scarlet and Violet.

@EternalRadiant 11 месяцев назад

Same, I already have dracovish but I would like to get the rest shiny

@Acroh 11 месяцев назад

your content is amazing and you inspired me to start a living shiny dex aswell, ty for the great content

@EternalRadiant 11 месяцев назад

Appreciate it thank you ❤️ I’m going to make a discord soon so be on the lookout!

@colleenpichette1343 11 месяцев назад

Woah another amazing shiny vide! the amount of time it must take to make these is crazy!! My fav dragon pokemon has to be dreepy

@EternalRadiant 11 месяцев назад

Appreciate it :) we love dreepy around here

@EternalRadiant 11 месяцев назад

CONGRATS you're one of the winners of the shiny giveaway! Message me on twitter: twitter.com/EternalRadiantt or discord ("paniiq") to setup a trade :)

@ayayoshiyama2762 11 месяцев назад

I wish I could hunt roaring moon but I have violet sooo 😅anyway awesome video as always ! 😄

@EternalRadiant 11 месяцев назад

Appreciate the support thank you :)

@TheDudeandDoodle 11 месяцев назад

Fantastic Video! Also new sub

@EternalRadiant 11 месяцев назад

Thanks for supporting the channel, appreciate it :)

@delinquentcat3832 10 месяцев назад

Finally, another dragon type lover

@jacobtime2866 11 месяцев назад

I love your videos and you inspired me to shiny hunt

@EternalRadiant 11 месяцев назад

Haha thanks that means a lot :)

@cshrubs 11 месяцев назад

long awaited Eternal Radiant video lets gooooo🗣️🗣️

@EternalRadiant 11 месяцев назад

WOOO! 🤝

@ribc4ges 11 месяцев назад

your videos inspire me to complete my galar pokédex :) my current shiny hunt is for galarian zigzagoon!!

@EternalRadiant 11 месяцев назад

Goodluck with getting that ziggy! Manifesting a quick hunt :)

@Grodarados 11 месяцев назад

nice video I would be happy if your next one or the one after that will be a poison type shiny hunt because the poison type pokemon are my favorite pokemon

@Uchiha_Itachi43 9 месяцев назад

wow You not only caught all the shiny but made them max level,evs,and pvp moveset.Thats crazy I dont think I would be able to do that in a hundred years

@EternalRadiant 9 месяцев назад

Yup! It’s my twist on the shiny living dex journey haha

@GreatGatzB 11 месяцев назад

My favorite dragon will always be Flygon 😁 congrats on another great video!

@EternalRadiant 11 месяцев назад

Appreciate that thank you! Flygon is amazing!

@EternalRadiant 11 месяцев назад

CONGRATS you're one of the winners of the shiny giveaway! Message me on twitter: twitter.com/EternalRadiantt or discord ("paniiq") to setup a trade :)

@BritishBl0ke 11 месяцев назад

Good job, well done

@EternalRadiant 11 месяцев назад

Thanks!

@DasaniDragon 11 месяцев назад

I got a shiny Axew in Pokemon go from community day and I love it. As of now I still need to fully evolve it but I'm excited to

@SoftwareLearningify 10 месяцев назад

You got them all to level 100 Too? My god the effort in these videos are insane! Good luck for the rest of the typings :) Btw love the nicknames and there are already gonna be a minimum of 2 brand new dragons in the dlc

@EternalRadiant 10 месяцев назад

Yeah it’s definitely very tedious to get them all to level 100 🥲 but def worth it! Thank you for the kind words! :) gonna have to prepare to hunt the new dragon types when they come out

@crazycreeper427 11 месяцев назад

In my opinion I think dragons have some of the best shinys . I love your content man keep it up

@EternalRadiant 11 месяцев назад

I think they have consistent incredible shinies, thank you!

@amoonwalkingphantomfan 11 месяцев назад

Well done catching all those shiny ✨ dragon types! I am really happy for you. My favorite shiny ✨ dragon 🐉 type Pokémon evolution family is the Dratini line.

@EternalRadiant 11 месяцев назад

Haha thank you :) I love the dratini line as well!

@Rosedragon15 11 месяцев назад

Awesome video man! And since you asked early on, it's pronounced like Dinosaur. The Deino line all contain the German words for one, two, and three

@EternalRadiant 11 месяцев назад

Thank you for the comment and clarification :) I know how to pronounce it now haha

@EspeonAndMew 11 месяцев назад

My favorite dragon is noibat!! My fav animal is bats, fav color is purple and fav type is dragon so it all fits too well lol!! Amazing video as always 🫶

@EternalRadiant 11 месяцев назад

A match made in heaven! Thank you so much :)

@MantineMatt 11 месяцев назад

Liked and Subbed for the best boi Cider!!!

@Mimi_FAH 10 месяцев назад

I like how shiny drakloak has a shiny dreepy on top :)

@user-np8gk7wc5i 11 месяцев назад

Lance would be proud Very proud

@EternalRadiant 11 месяцев назад

o7 shoutout to lance

@ChefCatClaw 11 месяцев назад

my fav dragon is flapple cuz cute yummi green apple shiny and the gmax is super cool imagine a mega for shiny flapple i always liked apple monsters and an apple pocket monster with an amazing shiny just made my day when i found out about it my 4th favorite pokemon is flapple :P he also gives me bakugan vibes with the apple to dragon tranformation

@EternalRadiant 11 месяцев назад

Flapple is dope! I definitely agree it reminds me of a bakugan 😂

@ChefCatClaw 11 месяцев назад

@@EternalRadiant i have a specific bakugan that gives me flapple vibes and it made me like flapple even more

@EternalRadiant 11 месяцев назад

@@ChefCatClaw CONGRATS you're one of the winners of the shiny giveaway! Message me on twitter: twitter.com/EternalRadiantt or discord ("paniiq") to setup a trade :)

@ChefCatClaw 11 месяцев назад

@@EternalRadiant oh nice I entered as a joke wow thanks Il do discord I don’t have twitter

@ChefCatClaw 11 месяцев назад

@@EternalRadiantsend the friend 8m “chefcatclawsubpls” I didn’t know they updated names

@davsjaidrai8476 11 месяцев назад

I thought it was really funny that i was playing arceus and found shiny golbat at the same time you found noibat green bat combo

@CheshireEclipse 11 месяцев назад

Loving these videos, your a major idiol for me!!

@EternalRadiant 11 месяцев назад

Thanks! :))

@CheshireEclipse 11 месяцев назад

@@EternalRadiant ofc!! Remember me when your famous lol

@EclipseGamin_ 11 месяцев назад

Now you should do Water type 👀 Edit: any PokeBall that you throw will always fail if it's NOT a crit capture (only applies to pokemon you already caught)

@Galarticuno 11 месяцев назад

Thanks for mentioning the crit capture thing, was going to myself. What you said isn’t 100% accurate tho. Its not always a critical capture, but it will always play that animation and use those sound effects when it is a capture

@EclipseGamin_ 11 месяцев назад

@@Galarticuno oops lol

@ranting2daMAX 11 месяцев назад

I actually kinda like Shiny Garchomp, it looks kinda good in ScarVi. People often praise other grey/black and red/orange shinies, but don’t even give Garchomp a chance. In older games, it was barely noticeable, but here the grey really shines. It reminds me of shiny Haxorus and Charizard (grey-ish shines with orange/red accents that are constantly praised, unlike my boy Garchomp smh)

@EternalRadiant 11 месяцев назад

I do agree it’s def easier to tell in the newer games, PLA and SV

@ZekromAmaterasu 10 месяцев назад

I'm almost positive they changed shiny Garchomp so it'd look better and more noticable, Imagine it being a black shiny in future games

@MiscreatedG 9 месяцев назад

The reason dragonite is so different shiny wise is because they used to basically just take pokemon and run them through a filter and get their shinies that way, but now a days I believe they're mostly hand crafted. Since regular dratini and dragonair are blue and dragonite is orange, they came out differently in the filter.

@bowgart683 8 месяцев назад

What filter did they use?

@Rico_brawlstars1 11 месяцев назад

Your channel is amazing and here is another challenge catch every single ghost type and ghastly has to be last so that it becomes harder if u find shiny ghastly you can keep it but doesn't count for the challenge. Keep up the good work

@EternalRadiant 11 месяцев назад

Appreciate the support and the content ideas, thank you!!

@Rico_brawlstars1 11 месяцев назад

Oh yeah something that I didn't mention here is that you can not evolve gastly you can use it for the chall3nge but not for evolving to haunter or gengar

@wuppado 2 месяца назад

I like your personality

@AllegedlyHuman 5 месяцев назад

Might have to come back to rewatch the latter half of the video when I'm not on the verge of falling asleep. In my defense, your voice is really calm and soothing and it's approaching 2 am, okay? Better to subscribe now though so I can more easily access your other videos later Oh, and have you considered net balls for those teal shinies? Personally, I think that it slaps pretty hard

@EternalRadiant 5 месяцев назад

LOOL thank you for the kind words :) hope you enjoy the rest of the vid!

@morpphh 11 месяцев назад

Dark types next 😈😈😈

@roberthorn9915 11 месяцев назад

I seriously think that I am the only person who generally likes shiny garchomp, probably because of the shiny gible you get from black 2

@EternalRadiant 11 месяцев назад

Haha I love shiny gible, garchomp is cool just with it kept gible’s color scheme

@agroteraaaa 9 месяцев назад

i'm huffing that mega evo copium with you, bro

@jessejohnson4415 11 месяцев назад

I love gibble and I love the way the colors change completely change and I like if I can get it

@MoxxieMark 10 месяцев назад

Bro the hacked pokemon when he showed them off that's crazy he showed them all and they all had the paldea champion ribbon even tho you can only give 6 that ribbon

@EternalRadiant 10 месяцев назад

Pls research before making a comment/accusation. You can get the paldea champion unlimited times by doing the ace academy tournament at the school

@TomAndMattFanBoy 11 месяцев назад

How bro only have less than 6k subs when I saw you pop up on recommend I thought you had 100k+ you deserve way more

@EternalRadiant 11 месяцев назад

Haha I’m still pretty new to RU-vid! appreciate the kind words!

@Godzillafanproductions 8 месяцев назад

Nice also for my shiny roaring moon it took 7 sandwiches

@tiesmile1414 11 месяцев назад

I think my favorite dragon type is either drampa or mega altaria. Drampa is the definition of loyalty (Pokédex says they burn down a bullies house), and mega altaria is just a big floofy bird :)

@EternalRadiant 11 месяцев назад

I love drampa 😭

@land8780 11 месяцев назад

I recently caught a shiny drifloon, I was gonna shiny hunt it eventually but now I dont need to, I didn't even use an outbreak, it just spawned after I exited a random picnic I did, it also knew self destruct but I caught it first try with a quick ball

@land8780 11 месяцев назад

also I've been trying to shiny hunt eevee for a shiny umbreon but I have not had any eevee outbreaks, even though I've been playing scarlet for over 1 or 2 months now, maybe 3

@theeeveetrainer9032 11 месяцев назад

In my opinion, no other dragon type compares to mega rayquaza. It's a beast in pvp and has an excellent shiny!

@EternalRadiant 11 месяцев назад

mega ray is truly the pinnacle of dragon types haha

@the_lion_dancer 3 месяца назад

The reason Garchomp doesn't keep Gible's colors is because pre gen6 gamefreak didn't design the shinies. They were put into an algorithm

@DaneOrschlovsky 11 месяцев назад

Okay, now I officially have to hunt the Tatsugiris...and Godzillamon! Let's just say that dealing with color blindness makes shiny hunting challenging, some more than others 😂

@EternalRadiant 11 месяцев назад

You got this I believe in you!!! They really need to add sound queue for people who are color blind

@DaneOrschlovsky 11 месяцев назад

@@EternalRadiantNGL, I played PLA last night just to hear that sound and FINALLY got the Growlithe I've been looking for since getting the game! I embrace the challenge and have learned to adapt and figure out the best lighting to hunt certain mons. I definitely go for the contrasting colors and easier identifiers first, but I guarantee I've missed dozens if not hundreds, MAYBE thousands along the way 😅

@brionac8640 11 месяцев назад

I also caught a shiny roaring moon in a friend ball. My friends thought I was insane and rightfully so since it took me 20 minutes just to catch it. Although, I got one of the coolest marks for this Pokémon. The Dawn mark.

@GeckoMaster2763 11 месяцев назад

My favorite dragon type is Haxorus

@Mr_Zeeker 10 месяцев назад

You might wanna get another shiny applin, ngl dipplin looking kinda poggers 🤠

@EternalRadiant 10 месяцев назад

HAHA I GOTTA HUNT ANOTHER ONE AHHH

@nickwhite4727 11 месяцев назад

hey man, what’s your leveling up method? i really want to get all my dragons lvl100 too

@Nherve_ 11 месяцев назад

how you said axew threw me off at first 😭 but i’m loving the video so far. always get excited when you post. i wish you could post more and still have the same quality but it’s not possible🥲 can’t wait for the next vid

@EternalRadiant 11 месяцев назад

Appreciate the kind words! Bro I you made me realize I’ve been pronouncing it wrong this entire time 😂😂😂 I’ll try my best to put out more frequent content!

@Nherve_ 11 месяцев назад

@@EternalRadiant if you can post more that would be fantastic but if you can’t it’s fine. whatever works for you bro

@toenaildestroyer 9 месяцев назад

dam that’s cool

@gymleader797 5 месяцев назад

There was an algorithm for shinies in the first few generations so a certain color ex. Blue would turn to pink. That’s why most water types turned pink!

@ransom99901 10 месяцев назад

My two favorite types are Fire and Dragon types. Can you do a shiny hunt of all fire/dragon dual types in the game? If there are any. Never really seen much of this game tbh

@ewizard7361 11 месяцев назад

Best video yet

@EternalRadiant 11 месяцев назад

Appreciate it :)

@bigfrogguy9468 11 месяцев назад

Where is cyclizard?

@zachsgames1425 11 месяцев назад

I once got two shinys full odds back to back

@Beezu_. 10 месяцев назад

I lovee dragon pokemons too is also my fav typ :D Btw: haxourus is mu fav and haxourus shiny is my fav shiny

@notnotchazfaz6859 11 месяцев назад

My fave dragon type is noivern bc anime and I have a shiny noibat great vid btw

@EternalRadiant 11 месяцев назад

Respect :) thank you!

@EternalRadiant 11 месяцев назад

CONGRATS you're one of the winners of the shiny giveaway! Message me on twitter: twitter.com/EternalRadiantt or discord ("paniiq") to setup a trade :)

@notnotchazfaz6859 11 месяцев назад

Actually??

@viviolet7 7 месяцев назад

mangekyo is a sick name for the haxorus.

@BlueBerryPieCherry 11 месяцев назад

Great job getting the voilet exclusives! I absolutely love Haxorus's shiny too!!

@EternalRadiant 11 месяцев назад

Thank you! I had to “cheat” a little using Pokémon GO but I was working with what I had 😭

@7a7777 11 месяцев назад

Thank you for the video when will you be live on Twitch and My favourite dragon type is goodra I love it and I used it on my sv team

@Galarticuno 11 месяцев назад

Not sure if you knew this, but the only time captures occur is when the crit capture animation and sound effects play. Any amount of shakes more that the initial one is a fail