Catholics & Salvation | Doug Wilson and James White | Sweater Vest Dialogues 

Kyle Hessler I second this.

This is correct.

One a month is the plan for now :)

Canon Press That’s racist. Once a week will be less racist.

@@CanonPress that's sexist. Once a week will be less sexist.

They're called heretics according to St Ignatius of Antioch who was actually a follower of St John and ordained Bishop of Antioch by Peter IGNATIUS OF ANTIOCH “Be not deceived, my brethren: If anyone follows a maker of schism [i.e., is a schismatic], he does not inherit the kingdom of God; if anyone walks in strange doctrine [i.e., is a heretic], he has no part in the passion [of Christ]. Take care, then, to use one Eucharist, so that whatever you do, you do according to God: For there is one flesh of our Lord Jesus Christ, and one cup in the union of his blood; one altar, as there is one bishop, with the presbytery and my fellow servants, the deacons” (Letter to the Philadelphians 3:3-4:1 [A.D. 110]).

@@GP-dp4mr thank you these guys are in error

​@@GP-dp4mr Apostolic church: The Lord Jesus is its only Builder and head. The Gates of Hell shall not Prevail against his church. It is made up of Born Again Christians who are in Christ and Sanctified by the truth of God's word. mat 16-18 and john 17 Apostate church: churches, denominations and individuals who departed from the true church or departed from the faith of the Apostles 1 john 2:19, 1 tim 4:1 Roman Catholics and Christians have differences: 1. A different Church 2. A different Authority 3. A different Jesus 4. A different gospel 5. A different Mary 6. A different view of sin 7. A different path to Eternity

Ha!😂😅🤣

Hahahah

From my understanding Durbin doesn’t talk to his dad. His elderly parents are hurt by Jeff’s terrible actions

@@catfish1972100 terrible actions?

Lol😂😂

Me too, they are both very mature and at peace.

What did he say that was weird ?

@@seanmoran6510 Saying that the author of the Gospel of Mark (John Mark) is a proto-Judaizer

@@seanmoran6510 15:20

The Catholic Church is the One True Church founded by Jesus Christ on Peter as the Rock

Most evangelicals are self taught or go to fake seminaries.

Amen!

@@bastionofthefaith92 I hope this isn’t being said by a man who calls Pope Francis, “Holy Father”, with a straight face.

System Revolt yep. Two of our family favorite theologians. 😂

ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-L14UNjaZJm8.html

Ed B what? Dude come on. Seriously, don’t make accusations like that. If something like that was even a thing. He’d be way more successful and would have way more power according to sudo truther narrative. Spend more time reading the word of God, praying, and get in a bible believing faithful church where you can be held accountable and have good fellowship. While I am grateful for the truther community on a lot of levels. When accusations are thrown out like this that are verifiably false. It makes the whole thing look stupid.

I think that was precisely whites point. However, what i haven't seen in the comments is that they are both right and wrong. The answer is so plainly directly in the middle of the 2. I love both these guys and respect them more than i can type here, but sometimes smart guys are too smart for their own good which is whites point basically and i think he makes the same mistake here

He wasn't really saying that. Doug is talking about the kind of "simple Catholic" who has a statue of Mary in their home and pray to it multiple times a day, not someone who has a simple Christian faith but attends Catholic church. As someone in Texas with Catholic family members I have seen a lot of both, they are both "simple" but very different. One has a simple faith in the Gospel and doesn't understand or buy into Catholic dogma, the other has a simple faith in Catholic dogma and doesn't understand the Gospel.

Same here. I’m my case edified when James white spoke and the opposite when Doug Wilson did.

What kind of mental gymnastics enables you to claim Paul preached "infused grace?"

Gerald Nichols The righteousness of God was always understood for the first 1500 years of the Church has an instilling in us at justification sanctifying grace. It is who needs to justify your “mental gymnastics” and explain how all of a sudden Luther discovered this. Was the Church without the Gospel for 1500 years? You tell me.

Exactly right. Ex Prot here, converted by ONE Latin Mass & A LOT of “RU-vid Catechesis”, lol. Calvinism was named after a MAN. Not a doctrine Christ started. Heretical & blasphemous. RC Sproul knew nothing, John MacArthur knows nothing & Todd Friel with Wretched (and that’s just what it is) knows nothing. These wolves misrepresent Catholicism.

So… superstition. Got it. But… in all seriousness, I’ve heard White say that indulgences aid in reducing temporal punishment for sin. I’m almost sure of it. 🤔. If I come across that talk, I’ll post it here.

Show me in the Bible where it’s faith plus works that saves you? Spare me your horrible twisting of “faith without works is dead” that simply means that true saving faith will bear fruit of a changed life. Many church fathers thought exactly what reformed theology teaches, especially Augustine. The current dogmas of Rome are unbiblical and have been developed over time. Marian dogmas; papacy, all inventions of men hundreds and hundreds of years after Christ. Romes doctrine of justification is nowhere near what Paul taught. Reformed theology was going back to the Bible and exegeting scripture. Faith alone; in Christ Alone. It is a gift of God, period. Rome teaches a false gospel that can’t save you and few in the early church taught.

Amazing! What were the things that you immediately saw about your life that made you think you weren't saved, after your eyes had been open to the gospel?

I'm not sure what the Westminster confession is? It sounds like a high church denomination. If so then, it sounds like you were doing the rituals, but just going through the motions until the gospel really came to life for you one day.

@@saintejeannedarc9460 The Westminster Confession of Faith, as well as the Westminster Larger and Shorter Catechisms are the Confessional Standards of Presbyterianism.

Which command of Jesus told a Christian to pray to Mary?

@@jeffkessel669 We are to pray for one another. We can also ask the saints in Heaven to pray for us since God is the God of the living, not of the dead. “Therefore, confess your sins to one another and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous person has great power as it is working” Notice how this quotes relates to the sacrament of confession. When it comes to knowing certain truths Jesus didn`t say explicitly, He said some of the things we`ll get to know through the Holy Ghost: "I still have much to tell you, but you cannot yet bear to hear it. However, when the Spirit of truth comes, He will guide you into all truth. For He will not speak on His own, but He will speak what He hears, and He will declare to you what is to come. He will glorify Me by taking from what is Mine and disclosing it to you". And thus st Peter got to know Christians don`t have to follow the ritual laws of the Jews, st John discovered that Jesus is the Logos for which and through which everything was created, Jesus also didn`t explicitly say that God is triune but it`s obvious from His teachings about the Holy Ghost and all Christians agree. It`s also certain that His mother is a great saint in Heaven and God granted her the fullness of grace: "And the angel being come in, said unto her: Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women" “From now on will all ages call me blessed”. Because of that we know that her prayers are powerful, thus christians prayed for Mary`s intercession already in the 1st century: www.earlychristians.org/the-devotion-to-the-virgin-mary-in-the-early-church/

Eric Badong That’s a great idea.

Great idea! I second this

And it would be an easier edit ;)

Yes, this would be great.

Eric Badong Great suggestion Eric

As I Catholic, if Protestants believe that reformed theology was true, I would actually be offended if Protestants DIDN’T try and convert me. I am much more aligned with Southern Evangelical baptists that with liberal Episcopalians. I hope Doug and White win the war against liberalism.

@@mosesking2923 Reformed theology is not Calvinism. Reformed theology is best described as the Five Solas. I'm a Provisionist, not a Calvibist. While I have concerns about some of the stuff in Catholicism, I am in no way arrogant enough to question your personal salvation. If you're pitting your faith in Christ alone, then that is the only that ultimately matters. Do some or a lot of Catholics not do this? Probably. Do some or a lot of Calvinist not do it as well? Probably. If I was going to 'convert' you it would be to trust in Christ alone, not join a denomination. I personally agree with CS Lewis, who was also not a Calvinist.

Awesome! I went back and looked at that, super! 🤣 Expressions like that make me think: It may Jesus, but that might mean it the Jesus of the Bible.

HA! Yes, Doug's response was so funny. That discussion highlighted their difference in personality.

Righhhht

I’m a Protestant to Catholic convert... may I ask your story? If you’re interested, I did a video on here about mine ☺️

@@GratiaPrima_ All I care to say Melissa is that I discovered through God’s Grace the beautiful truth of the pure gospel- saved by grace alone- through faith alone and in Christ alone.

@@GratiaPrima_ that boggles my mind.

@@GratiaPrima_ Welcome to the true faith Melissa! we are happy to have you. Viva Cristo Rey! ✝️🙏

@@odanobunaga7584 You do know "Viva Cristo Rey" is a catholic phrase right, made famous by the Cristeros ?

So you think your eating Jesus at communion??

@@darylherlick2344 yes

@We Don't Have Supreme Love for Negations I would say as someone who stopped attending mass for a non-denominational church for about a year, one route is founded on pride and ego, the other on humility and meekness. There were disagreements from the very beginning, however, separation and divorce driven by pride and ego didn’t occur until much later.

Explain what you mean.

@@anthonygarcia3960 I can’t speak for the original commenter. But if you read that passage of Matthew 7, you will notice that the people whom Jesus tells to depart, are pointing to their own good works. Which is related to Catholicism because, Catholicism teaches a works based salvation. When I stand before God, I won’t point to my own “good works”. All I have is Christ and His perfect work on my behalf.

What do you mean by semi-Nestorian? (Honest question)

Catholic soteriology is Augustinian.

Lol Catholics can be both. Y’all are a mixed camp.

They aren’t semi Nestorian. They are just Nestorians and have strong Gnostic impulses. I’m Orthodox!

​@@EricAlHarb How's that? There is nothing in their conversation that suggests that.

If by fantastic you mean moronic and juvenile then yes

You took the grill pill?

ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-L14UNjaZJm8.html

Give some examples ?

"A little leaven leavens the whole lump." "Strait is the gate, and narrow is the way that leads unto life."

You caught up yet?

As a former Roman Catholic; How do you justify the practice of Sola Scriptura when the early Christian didn’t practice it, nor the apostles themselves; nor is is taught in your deficient Protestant bible? In fact there was no agreed upon books of the bible for at least 400 years. As a former Roman Catholic now part of some heretical sect; who defined the different books of the bible? Did your particular sect do so?

“And it came to pass, as he spoke these things, a certain woman from the crowd, lifting up her voice, said to him: Blessed is the womb that bore thee, and the paps that gave thee suck. ” And Jesus said: “Yea, rather, blessed are they that hear the word and keep it” Luke 11:27-28 Jesus does not will for us to praise Mary as such, he wants us to hear the word of God, and live by it. Praising Mary as Mediatrix, Advocate, Intercessor, “All-Holy”, “immaculate”, is not Christian.

I hear you, but from our point of view we see a big divide. Catholics do have a different gospel. One where Jesus' sacrifice is not finished and sufficient. One where you can fall from Grace by sinning. One where you work to regain salvation. One where Grace is delivered through other methods other than Christ. Be it sacraments or saints. This is what separates us. That gospel doesn't put full dependency and faith in Christ.

Christ sacrifice is, was and always enough to grant us initial salvation but on earth we have to cooperate with Gods will to remain in a state of grace. If I say profess Jesus as my Lord and Savior then go and commit heinous acts like murder, would I still be saved?

@@dezericka dezericka firstly, you say we must cooperate to stay in Grace. I would ask you, do we cooperate to receive grace? Then I would agree with you in that we do cooperate to remain in Grace. But, it is God that keeps us from falling. Our cooperation is not only possible by God's strength in us. Our cooperation is all from God. Otherwise everyone would fall from Grace. Because, "lest anyone should boast". So in ultimate analysis our abiding in Grace is not a cause of our cooperation in anyway. We remain saved by Christ's death and resurrection. Since that death is totally effective. No one is un-justified, un-regenerated, un-converted, etc. Now. As for your question. A professing Christian can be one of two things. An unsaved person confessing Christ and a saved person confessing Christ. The unsaved person would carry on unsaved. The saved person would carry on saved. This because I you believe that saved Saint to lose his salvation because of any sin you say Christ's death to weak and worthless to justify such a "heinous act". You're right to be so repulsed by sin. (And it's unlikely that a saved person would commit murder anyways.) But, you must recognise the power of the cross. And when God saves someone he does not abandon him. That would be against all that scripture teaches.

@@dezericka also, you say that Christ's sacrifice is only enough for the "initial salvation"? Where is that ever taught in scripture? I'm guessing you mean justification. Still, "he who God justifies He also glorifies." Meaning if your saved once, you will go to heaven and be glorified. "God will raise us up on the last day"

@@Lucas747G "But, it is God that keeps us from falling" Sorry but no apostle taught that this was a Christian teaching. This was a gnostic teaching and we know that because the early church wrote about it. "Because, "lest anyone should boast"." This was about heritage - the jews boasted of their works because the covenant through Abraham. This has nothing to do with 'earning' salvation. Since salvation is a free gift it wouldn't make sense for one to say, "look at me, i'm saved by what i'm doing" because that same salvation would also be a free gift to the boastee without a lineal prerequisite. "A professing Christian can be one of two things. An unsaved person confessing Christ and a saved person confessing Christ. The unsaved person would carry on unsaved. The saved person would carry on saved. This because I you believe that saved Saint to lose his salvation because of any sin you say Christ's death to weak and worthless to justify such a "heinous act". Neither is this interpretation Christian in origin. It arose with Calvin and was never heard before that in Christian teaching - Also a point that can be discovered just by reading the early church. Secondly, even Paul was aware that he could fall from grace and be disqualified from salvation (1 cor. 9-27) Supporting that point is the unanimous testimony of the entire early church which taught that one can lose their salvation.

So smells-and-bells and emotional mysticism mean more to you that the truths of Scripture?

@@gregb6469 "mystical, experiential, smells 'n bells" was the phrase he used. These things, in Anglo Catholicism, go together with the truths of Scripture. They are Scriptural. Try taking all references to union with God, experiences of God, and incense and joyful sounds out of the Scripture and you will have a very much slimmer Bible. I guess that by "strong" Werd Nnam was meaning historic Anglo Catholicism, contrasted with the lamentable-and un-Scriptural state of the TEC denomination.

@@gregb6469 No, Church history was of the utmost importance to me, I became obsessed with the episcopacy in my last year of seminary. I could no longer be in a Church without an Episcopal form of church government.

@@anselman3156 Yeah, that’s what I meant.

@@drewmann856 -- You didn't go back in time far enough. There is not a word about the monarchical bishop system of church government in the NT, so your obsession about it is not wise.

@M J I call Muslims my brothers? I don’t.

@M J I’m not.

@M J So I assume you're a Calvinist?

@M J Oh, so terrible...I hope I can live with the shame! A/w, you just seem like someone who likes to argue with strangers on the internet. Sooooo, good luck with that.

Roman Catholics are our brothers and Muslims are about the closest you can get to being Christian without being saved.

But if you pray to any but God then you are in error of the Bible and in danger of not knowing the true relationship it takes for salvation!

I wouldn't be too quick to assume this.

@@Freedomfortruth90 Not “assuming” it, I’m merely recognizing it.

I believe that both groups can be saved.

Its not false if you can literally see videos of people offering sacrifices and burning incense to statues of blessed Mary.

Julio Rodriguez - i think you will become the South Texas “Tex-Mex” Chesterton who whom swim the Tiber in reverse!

Doug in lycra.... That might be a mortal sin.

Lol

Yet you state he gets to Christ alone. And Christ is truth. Cheers in Christ! :)

Worse than that Catholics pray to saints and Mary (which are really demons). (Asking them to pray for you, is a prayer and a negation of the power of Christ.)

@@rohan7224 If they are dead, yes that would be necromancy.

@@rohan7224 What you pray to are demons that have deceived you. The real saints of God weep that you are so hardened in your unbelief and seek to rob Christ himself of His intercessory role before the Father. Please repent of the madness

But that's exactly his point he is making.

Imagine believing that Christ atonement is not good enough, that a mortal can be so venerated they can be prayed through, and that works can justify an individual before a holy God.

Anton Ralph You’re not an Anglo Catholic. You’re just a Protestant. Anglo Catholics are those Anglicans who are in communion with Rome and who still use the Book of Common Prayer as their basic template for Mass, with the required replacement of the defective canon with the appropriate Roman Canon.

Anton Ralph. As I listened to this, I was thinking, I am glad to be Anglo Catholic, that is, I believe historic Anglicanism to be a branch of the one holy catholic and apostolic church, whose other branches are the Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox. The fact that many in the leadership of Anglicanism, Roman Catholicism and E.Orthodoxy depart from the Scriptural and Catholic Faith does not mean that all adherents of these communions are non-Christian. The Calvinists are a rather exclusivist group, and their main contention is against the idea that it is possible for one who has been saved to actually fall away. As the commentator below reveals, there are misleading definitions of what it means to be Anglo Catholic. For a true understanding of the term, I suggest reading such people as E.B.Pusey, Henry Parry Liddon, Alexander Penrose Forbes, Charles Chapman Grafton, Darwell Stone and Eric Mascall. Anglo Catholics vary in their views concerning the modernist papacy, and I guess some of those who have gone over to the ordinariate will be just as disconcerted as R.C. traditionalists with the current "pope".

p.s. Anglo Catholics have normally viewed "Dissenters" such as Calvinists as Christians despite their not having orders through the tactile Apostolic Succession. They can count all persons baptized in the Name of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost as Christian brethren, even if erring.

@@anselman3156 Thank you and God bless you brother.

@@antonralph6947 I am pleased to hear from a fellow Anglo Catholic in RU-vid land. We are not too numerous, I think. God bless you too, brother. Be confident in our godly heritage. Eric Mascall's book "Christ, the Christian and the Church" has recently been reprinted, and is a good read. His Gifford lectures The Openness of Being can be read online. All good stuff. Liddon is excellent and can be found in Internet Archive. Check out "The Divinity of Our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ" I do some readings from this on my channel by way of introduction.

@@mosesking2923 Umh... Okay... Thanks for nothing.

Moses King prove name your primary source dated to before 300ad that is evidence for prayers to Mary by early Christians?

Jesse Bryant you are 💯 right grew up catholic and you explained that perfectly.. there is no interest or desire to know God’s word in Catholicism, when the Bible directly contradicts their practices they simply ignore it or perform such elaborate twisting of scripture it could become a gymnastic sport!

From Death to Life how do you know what books belong in the Bible?

ben perry catholics didn’t write the Old and New Testament, the Holy Scriptures existed long before Roman Catholicism ever did. Christians circulated the New Testament manuscripts since they were first written they didn’t magically appear. How do we know claims such as John Smith’s, Mohammad etc are false? Because they contradict the Holy Scriptures in the same way we know the many of the teachings of Roman Catholicism are false because they contradict the Holy Scriptures.

I wonder how they would respond to virtually none of the early Church fathers believing this way?

@@ryanpope7891 You mean nobody believing in the Sola doctrines or Assurance until the Reformers invented them in the 16th century?

mcmemmo Mfw when the Fathers always upheld the Roman Bishop’s infallibility...oh wait..they didn’t

MedžuSlovjansky They held the apostolic succession and tradition, and people tend to forget there is different types of Catholics. It’s only when the pope speaks ex cathedra, not everything he says. And when he speaks about doctrine it’s revised by the rest of the bishops.

Ricardo Razo Sure they held to apostolic succession, but not one of them believed that the Roman Bishop was the head of the Church, who can rule inerrantly on dogma, as believed by RCs today

Do you mean it's hard to reconcile in terms of accepting that Chesterton was a true believer or do you mean it's hard to gauge one way or the other?

@@Stanzi18 reconcile as in see his Roman Catholicism as being compatible with genuine faith. Sounds like the former.

@@SamOwenI I tend to agree with you.

@@Stanzi18 I didn't express my view, just answering the question. I haven't read Chesterton and haven't finished watching the video yet.

I met a guy before who believed in Salvation by faith alone through grace alone (or at least seemed to) but identified as a Catholic. I asked him how he could do that, or like talk with other Catholics. He said he wouldn't argue with "hard core" Catholics or something like that but had tried to before to preach the Gospel to his family. When I asked him about confession, he said to him it wasn't your sins being forgiven, but just a way of well...yeah, confession, lol. So it was odd, but idk...

@KTTGHMTJWYCBLAC Doesn't look like it. He is extending the argument for Chesterson to others who say they believe in one thing, but then live seemingly in spite of that. He asking why the logic Douglas is using for Chersterson, can't be used for someone like Mother Teresa. It is hypothetical and a condemning question towards the logic used by Douglas.

@@RomingAroundTown, what were the intellectual fruits of Mother Teresa? What were the pious works of Chesterton? If we are to know these people we must look at the collection of their works and not cherry pick those we prefer.

The real question is whether protestants are saved ...

Not sure I follow? We are saved by grace-

The gospel is good news. It needs to be the correct gospel.

@@Freedomfortruth90 The Second Person of the Trinity came to earth, took on humanity in the flesh, lived, suffered and died for our sins out of love for us, so that all of creation could be restore back to original justice as it was before the Fall…. This is the good new.

Ave Maria

Pray for those under her to get out

@@geoffrobinson lol

Pray they stop spreading the corona

ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-L14UNjaZJm8.html

Well seeing as not every Christian before Luther was a catholic.

@@theneverending9319 right,the others were Eastern orthodox

Catholicism was not always as corrupt as it is and has been since Luther's day. It really began to spiral out of control from the time of the Crusades onwards and reached its zenith of corruption and heresy around the time of the Reformation.

Just as preposterous as nobody but Noah and his family being saved from the flood? Or only the Jews for many hundreds of years? It cannot be denied that salvation was ONLY for those who who heard of the Lord from the Hebrews before the time of Christ. God only revealed Himself to His claimed people. Is it unfair of Him to not give revelation to all people of the world at the same time? No.

@@douglasmcnay644 This is absurd. So for most of the 1500 year period (or from wherever you start your restorationist "great apostasy" when the Church fell away a la Mormonism to the time of Luther) between Christ and the Reformation, there just weren't any "saved" individuals? You essentially are saying that the Church ceased to exist, that the Holy Spirit, promised to the Church by Christ to "lead it into all truth", instead led that entire Church into abject heresy and idolatry for centuries, if not a millennium or more. That makes Christ a liar, and makes the Holy Spirit out to be an evil figure who cares not for the Church He was entrusted. It's not that this is unfair, it's that it is contrary to the basic goodness of God and the promises of Christ.

And Charismatic see light in those who see vision and dreams and say Jesus appears to them. This is dangerous.

Pretty sure Dr. White has debated some of them , including Patrick Madrid.

Ironically, I think the same of when Roman Catholics have a show on Lutheranism and completely butcher our Confessions as well.

Lets not be lazy and rely too much on people.

Youd have to read Chestertons stuff to understand it mate