Catrike Dangerous Modifications 

Thank you so much. It's always nice to hear from customers!

America is a wonderful place. You can put your personal opinions into operation through your purchases. But, the fact remains that the Extenders are a demonstrably-dangerous modification to a trike that requires no modification. If I had to speculate, the "squishiness" of the extenders serves as a kind of suspension -smoothing your ride -but at the expense of longterm frame integrity. For fun, you might call the Catrike factory and ask if their drop outs ever break and, if so, whether there is ANY specific modification that routinely causes that breakage!

Stephen Thank you for sharing. Since I personally examined the trike, I can state without qualification that the flex came principally from from the chain stay extenders. As evidence, I'm willing to wager that you don't have the hand strength to flex Catrike chainstays -or any manufacturer (nor, do I). With not a lot of effort, I flexed Utah's extenders. As a knock-on effect, the stays also flexed.

@@RecumbentPDX ...well I'll agree with you there. The chain stays on a Catrike are solid...lol...if you need to spread 'em even a silly millimeter you've got a workout. And torsionally they're like a rock. Thanks!

Thank you !

We've seen those 16 gauge crimps. I suppose that's sufficient if you live in the desert. Anywhere else -we can say from customers' personal experience- a disaster

Sometimes, simple common sense is ALL that's lacking. This mutant build embodies this!

Lisbon Rails to Trails right in there in Ohio is considered among the best trike shops in the country. But, if you're hundreds of miles from the nearest shop with no way to get there, I can see the benefits of an online purchase. But, Utah is pushing out-of-spec builds that void manufacturers' warranties. Utah's OWN warranty - which requires buyers to pay roundtrip freight, labor and any additional parts - is functionally non-existent (www.utahtrikes.com/UT2-Store_Policies.html?gclid=CjwKCAjwxOymBhAFEiwAnodBLGafaZZLbk6ieWsrRxAyItrLx7Ohcch7mGwGAUsrAbBwdpn89UX-mhoCDlgQAvD_BwE). I am unaware of any "more creative solutions" in our industry spurred on by Utah. I can't speak for most store owners, but for both business and legal liability reasons, we won't touch their trikes EXCEPT to restore them to stock build.

@@RecumbentPDXCrazy Lisbon Rails to Trails is actually pretty close to me! Too much of a rookie, I guess. Am going to Cycle Com in Ohio in September should be able to test ride about all the brands. Thanks for your expertise!

My pleasure. It's my experience that the bricks-and-motor recumbent shops - even the ones I compete directly with - provide good, honest value. The horror stories I hear -and see- from folks who bounce over a few states to purchase -well, they motivate me to warn people about Utah.

"a picture of Bruce's piece of drilled-out art". Catrike called that thing a "drilled out piece of shit" And, yes, I got that quote directly from the source. As always, thank you for your thoughtful observations. Hope you and Travis are doing well. He's a good dog!

Since you didn’t purchase your trike from our shop, I’ve never seen it firsthand. But, I can state - with a high degree of certainty - that the damage incurred was NOT a design defect from Catrike, but instead caused by one or more of the following 1) too-large motor sizing 2) poor installation or 3) improper user care. Catrikes were NOT designed to accept hub motor kits - doing so risked a voided warranty. That said, between 2015 and 2018, our shop installed over two hundred 250 to 500 watt hub motors from Bionx and GoSwissDrive without a frame failure of any kind. The key was properly mating the motor drive force to the frame. A properly-sized and installed torque washer (cart.electricscooterparts.com/hub-motor-torque-washer-for-12mm-axle-type-a-3mm-thick) ensured the motor had enough purchase on the non-drive side drop outs. Cap nuts holding the motor axle in the dropouts would then need to be torque wrenched to the motor manufacturer’s specified Newton-Meters. Finally, wedge-locking washers (www.nord-lock.com/nord-lock/) were required to ensure that, having torqued the cap nuts to the correct Newton-Meters, they maintained that position under the torsional load of the motor and the vibration of the road. Failure to do any of those items would cause the torque of the motor to spin independent of the frame -destroying the dropouts in the process. Clearly, you or your installer failed at these required tasks. That’s not a Catrike problem. There’s good news, though: Having destroyed your Catrike through misuse, you really can’t further damage it. So - other than the risk that the destroyed the dropouts don’t have enough remaining material for a reliable physical connection as required on the Utah dropout extenders (ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-gLgJEukTmu4.html) with the resulting risk of the whole rear end coming apart while you’re cornering “like it’s riding on rails” and your being injured - I don’t see much else that can go wrong. The wonderful country that we live in allows folks to do what they want with what they own. My professional opinion is that the Utah extenders are poorly-designed and dangerous. Your opinion differs. I wish you a great time out on the road.

I don't like quads and I don't like Fat's. That's personal opinion. It informs my professional opinion: I don't sell either. But, my opinions are meaningless -if you can safely enjoy a particular cycle, that's what you should be on!

The out-of-spec extensions will void the frame warranty and - more critically - make the frame more prone to catastrophic failure. Nowhere in Utah's scant warranty page (www.utahtrikes.com/UT2-Store_Policies.html?gclid=CjwKCAjwxOymBhAFEiwAnodBLGafaZZLbk6ieWsrRxAyItrLx7Ohcch7mGwGAUsrAbBwdpn89UX-mhoCDlgQAvD_BwE) do they address the warranty void or any steps they'd take to step into the breach. If your vendor can't be bothered to warranty their product, that's generally a clear "walk-away" signal

Technically, ANY modifications to the trike void the warranty, though my primary concern is safety, not warranty. Only this year has Catrike put a 500w motor limit in writing. I absolutely lose my cool over 750, 1000 and higher motors. The trikes just aren't built to withstand torsional loads several times what any human can produce.

Thank you. We JUST got back from Catrike. Was fortunate to spend time with Justin and Marco -their phenomenal engineers. They spend thousands of hours designing each trike -from concept to CAD-CAM to prototype to production. They know PRECISELY what they're doing. The guys in Utah have zero idea.

Thomas. I appreciate your comments. I'd note, though, that pretty-much anything is stable in a "straight line". There are "acceptable" mods and then...... We've seen this particular online operation ("chop shop", as we commonly call it) sells this rig with 1000 watt motors. NOTHING should have a 1000 watt motor. They have zero idea what they're doing.

Hi. I'm not understanding your specific situation, so can't give an opinion. Though, it sounds like the hub is "fixie" style., so I agree with you that it doesn't seem workable on a trike.

@@RecumbentPDX no,no i tried to make a classic 26 inch 32 spoke wheel, but it did not work. i like it because it has sealed bearings. however, when installed on the truing stand, it only turns one way. i.e. if you are on a bike, you can not turn the pedals backwards. and this is ok on a trike, but not acceptable for a bike. also, the boss, the organizer of the bike house, asked me to keep it for him, and install it back on a 20 inch wheel for a trike, one day.

"pulling....toenails"!? I think your exaggerating. No worse than a root canal. Come visit sometime -we'll try to score some Novocain

enviola’s max spec is 100Nm -on a lead-heavy cargo hub I’ve yet to see on a trike. I’ve seen plenty of igh’s un-sprung by 1000 watt motors. I’ve seen - and have the photos to prove it - half a dozen HP Velotechniks cracked in half by oversized motors

Yes, quickly. We've seen dozens of broken Nuvinci hubs discarded like so many old oil drums -because their own published specs make clear torque limits that are easily overwhelmed by a motor kit.

@@RecumbentPDX. Hard to argue your point given Nuvinci specs but I wonder if the specs on some of these motors are actually that powerful in real life? I also am a very conservative rider doing just in town riding. It just keeps on ticking? I do love the shifting on these, small increments so easy to adjust to your cadence. In looking at your riding videos I think your terrain out west is just much more challenging than in Ohio! Lol

We like happy customers. That's why we only sell in the shop. We have more demo Catrikes than any trike shop in the country. That's the secret to a happy customer: test riding. Purchasing trikes on the internet is a recipe for disaster. We regularly have customers fly in from Alaska or Hawaii to get fitted. It's expensive and time-consuming for them. But, in the end, they get EXACTLY the right trike.

@@RecumbentPDX I get it! It's hard when you live in the other side of the country :)

Catrike knows what they're doing. Utah does not. No retailer should perform modifications that wildly diverge from the manufacturer's specs.

Oh, okay. It's Utah Trikes.

@@RecumbentPDX Ha...that was my guess. Thanks for posting.

@@brucefarrar300 there are many communities with no shop within reasonable distance. when Utah sells into an underserved community, they’re providing a valuable service. In contrast, when they sell into the California and Washington markets, they’re cheating local dealers (I know they tell potential customers to test ride at local shops because they’ve done it to me. They’ve also told folks they can get any warranty fixes from us. They can’t.). Utah’s modifications endanger riders. And, they give the whole industry a black eye

Mark - Oregon has no sales tax, so Utah has almost no affect on our sales. In contrast, the dealers in California and Washington - both high sales tax - get creamed by the no-sales-tax internet retailers like Utah. Now, having effectively demolished your "ulterior motive" theory, we're going to return to the discussion of what's "safe" and "proven" on a trike: Utah's modifications are not. That's why their store policies - which you can google - admit that this kind of dangerous stupidity voids Catrike's warranty. There are PLENTY of manufacturers whose engineers have designed higher seat heights to accommodate your needs. You purchased from a silly internet operation with no employess qualified to determine the safety of their modifications. I wish you safe and enjoyable riding!

If the manufacturer tells you it's "okay", then it's "okay". Failing that, ANY mod is courting disaster. The same Internet Chop Shop "featured" in my video installed a 1000 watt motor on a AZUB Ti-FlyX for a bay-area triker. The ridiculous (and NOT legal) torque sheared the bolts right off the AZUB's suspension. This happened just a couple days ago (Apr '23). Customer now has to ship the resulting pile all the way back to Utah so said Chop Shop can try to repair it. So, two lessons: 1) don't buy from internet chop shops and 2) if you do - and it breaks - be prepared for a long and expensive interval until you can ride your trike again.

Gotta agree with the 1000w comments. As for my brackets, they are designed by myself with input from a local mechanic/builder out of 1/4" 4130 with a brazed on connection on top of the chainstays to give a 3rd point of attachment and bracing. If I do put a motor on it, it will probably be the 350w kit that they sell for it. This is my weightloss trike, which will turn into my around town trike when I get down to a good weight for a catrike 700.

I think this is the real tension: with the very long tradition of riders fiddling with bikes, what are the reasonable boundaries? If a trike comes with low- or moderate-end components, it's silly to tell people not to replace rear cassettes or derailleurs. Typical ride conditions matter -- for those of us who generally ride under 10 mph on mostly-flat ground, an extender for the rear wheel may make the back end a bit wobbly, but it's not as for dangerous as someone who's regularly careening down a mountain. (I don't have any mods.) And frame warranties are a helpful boundary: if the manufacturer says doing X will void the frame warranty, that should be a pretty strong red flag, because FRAMES.

@@sdorn No dealer has an issue with upgrading components -whether done by knowledgeable customer or a shop. We do tons of Rohloffs. And, Shimano Alfines. And DI2. None of these puts a trike or a rider at risk. But, most riders can predict EVERY situation they might find themselves in, so absent some benefit (and there's ZERO benefit to putting a 24 or 26 inch wheel on a frame designed for a 20), there's simply no good reason to do it. THanks for responding.

thanks

We used to joke that we were available to perform brain surgery in the shop for anybody unwilling to wear a helmet.

Everyone in our household loves asparagus. Thank you for sharing your unvarnished opinion.

100%!