So ironically it’s quite an Apple type move where the listener is locked out of controlling the codec selection. My read from this video is that lossless just can’t be consistently stable over Bluetooth so the best you will get is the occasional lossless playback in a adaptive variable playback that you have no control over and is marketed as lossless.
imo its ldac alternative, as ldac scales down and up, same with aptx now, just qualcomm named their perfect condition loseless, sony could have done that too, but they didnt.
In Sennheiser momentum 4 true wireless app you can select the codec, either Aptx Adaptive or Aptx lossless, and afterwards in android developer settings you can for Aptx Adaptive select the 48 or 96 khz.
Nerdy? Yes. But, I enjoyed it very much. And I’m an iPhone user. Which I heard the disclaimer in the beginning of the video, yet I watched it all the way until the end. A testament to how interesting and informative your videos are. Thank you.
Some clarifications: 1. SBC is adaptive as well, not only LDAC. SBC codes adjust the "bitpool" parameter, depending on the connection. 2. By default, most SBC codecs are configured with comparatively low quality settings, but we can adjust parameters. I currently run SBC at 684 kbps. It's easy to run SBC at higher rates as well, e.g. 990 kbps, but at some point you run the risk of producing dropouts when you hit the bandwidth limits of the Bluetooth connection. 3. LDAC fares worse in listening tests, compared to SBC-With-High-Data-Rates and/or AptX. Don't use LDAC. 4. Some codecs, like AptX, compresse audio data not by removing content, but by increasing noise. LDAC and SBC remove audio data.
interesting cose for me ldac sounds the best, run from windows 11 by a2dp driver, while i can switch between sbc, aac, aptX aptX hd and ldac, and ldac is simply the best quality for me
The vast memory of wired headphones do not have active noise cancellation, so I wouldn’t agree they are the best audio experience unless you’re at home or some other quiet location.
Yeah it was nerdy but really liked it. Kinda confirmed all my suspicions. To get real lossless on wireless there are just too many factors in play (phone, IEM/headphones, software, bluetooth chips and the air in between). So wired for quality and wireless for ease of use it is 😊
In my experience, LDAC has been a game-changer. It's been the most reliable for sound quality and constant uninterrupted connection which was something that plagued my many other Bluetooth headphones/iems. I also agree that the hardware makes a bigger difference. For me the now old Sony WFXM3's are just unbeatable! I love them and they can be had for so little now relative to their new price.
Sony is great, I have the headphone Wh-1000XM4 its very nice, but it gets too hot in the summer. Now I give a chance for Technics EAH-AZ80. This premium brand is owned by Panasonic in 1965. I've watched a lot of comparison videos, most of the time this one came out on top. I can't wait to use it, I'm very curious about it.
Take into the equation the noise floor out on the street due to traffic and wind and it is all moot unless you turn up the sound level so much you'll likely cause long term hearing damage.
Great Video, John Darko. Thank you; I listened all the way to the end! Yes, it was technical. However, it is necessary to understand this subject for buying or upgrading purposes. Nobody else explains this material, for the most part, better than you. Thanks Again
My head hurts. As an iPhone user, I’m looking forward to the day when Apple releases its updated AAC, with lossless - which is something they’re apparently working on. I won’t need a degree in audio codecs to know what the hell is playing on my earbuds!
Great. That’s an improvement. With time they will perfect the technology and make it available across platforms. Keep up the good work Qualcomm. Thanks for the video John. Much appreciated!
while cycling, running or workouts its not comfy, wireless is very practical these days and im happy we are moving closer to cd quality, with bt 6 or future version we might get even better quality, beyond cd quality most people cant tell diference unless they are audiophiles or musicians. if they can make stable cd quality with bt, im absolutely fine with that over wires and mess
For me the problem lies with Apple. The way to get a Mac to work with AptX codecs, is normally by using Bluetooth Explorer from Apple. But... it doesn't seem to work with Silicon Macs, and Apple hasn't updated the app. Love to see you do a post on getting the best Bluetooth audio from a Mac. I hate it that my Android phone, using LDAC, sounds so much better with a Bluetooth receiver than my new Mac!
Try the sennheiser BTD 600. You can get AptX quality audio on your Mac or iPad Pro. I hear it works with the iPhone 15 Pro Max also. But I haven’t tested this. Absolute game changer using focal Bathys or momentum 4 or TWM4 with Apple devices.
Which is still more than enough today. Anything more is useless. And if you hear a difference between a CD and high-res format, that’s probably because it wasn’t the same source material to start with.
to be fair, bluetooth buds are a new thing. 10 years ago, if someone saw 2 white airpods in your ears, they'd think you took your apple earphones and cut the cords off of them.
I know your thing is to be sarcastic but, come on, if you went back to 1990 and showed someone your phone and told them you can listen to anything you want that’s ever been recorded and stream that to ear phones that were not connected to the device at CD quality, they would wet themselves.
Just as you said “…this is so nerdy” I was thinking “this is fantastic!” Thanks John. Love it. I’m in iPhone user and I have a DAC and a cable, but it’s still wonderfully interesting stuff to know.
Using an iPhone, I can use any codec I want as long it is AAC 😂 begun looking at the new Sennheiser offering but there seem to be some issues according to other reviewers with transparency mode and microphone placement. When investing this I found raving reviews for Technics AZ80 so I am thinking of giving those a try, didn’t even knew Technics was in this space
@DarkoAudio the Sennheiser momentum 4 true wireless control app allows you to select either Aptx Adaptive or AptX Lossless. If you after selecting Aptx Adaptive go into developer options you can select the bitrate to be either 48 or 96. In the Sennheiser control app select Aptx lossless and in developer options you only have 44.1 khz available. Funnily enough both have in developer options only 24 bit available and they are both called Aptx Adaptive. The Aptx Lossless should be 16 bit so the 24bit is a bit weird but if I get better lossless dynamic range who am I to complain. Another thing is that you can only play Hi-res 96khz files bit-perfect if you select Aptx Adaptive. AptX Lossless does not play files higher than CD-quality, but it plays CD-quality streaming very well.
Great video John. Not in any way confusing. I assume requirements are BT 5.3, Qualcomm Snapdragon, and the phone manufacturer to pay the appropriate licences. Samsung only pay for APT-X. Never APT-X HD or above. Because they have their own high quality codec... Would be good to tell your audience about this... They are a major player. Can't install a better codec either..
Excellent explanation ofJohn thank you, as a Sennheiser user I can say there is a notable difference between the two codecs Aptx and Aptx Adaptive. I recently started using the BTD600 dongle so I can extract every ounce of sound from my Momentum 4 since it enables the full AptX suite and you can even FEEL the difference. Tried that dongle with the MTW3s and the diference was not that perceptible. So I can agree in you conclusion: hardware totally matters at the end.
Bluetooth is such a nightmare. It's 3.5mm headphones all the way for me. Few phones have the jack, but the USB C dongles are tiny and good these days. Nothing extra to charge, hard to lose, and It Just Works.
John, I have to admit, recognize and congratulate you for how well structured your explanation is about aptX Lossless and aptX Adaptive, it was like having seen the best science fiction movie, complex, disconcerting at times but wow, what an amount of information so well developed. Yes, I love technology, innovation and nerdy things, as always excellent content, greetings from Mexico! You should seriously consider writing a science fiction novel, you have a great ability to explain complex topics.
I find it funny that these manufacturers mention codecs so much in marketing to promote their earbuds, when the difference is as you said in the video is practically inaudible, because of the limits of sound quality you can get in ~300$ wireless earbuds. I use Sony's WH-1000 XM5 headphones (that should have a much better sound quality than all current wireless earbuds), with LDAC on my phone, and I can ever so slightly hear a difference between a CD-quality file and a 320kbps mp3 one if I'm in a quiet environment and raise the volume a lot.
This is true. The difference between lossy and lossless is only noticeable in an ideal environment and when you fully focus on the audio. This is why audiophiles haven't always offer the most reliable advice. They also ignore the advantages of EQ, focusing solely on the unaltered initial audio performance of their headphone. 🙄
Lossless is build on top of Adaptive so if the signal etc is not good enough it drops to Adaptive, it really is like a chasing a Unicorn and the newer using XPAN (BT+WIFI) will probably be more stable.
I can now verify that Vivo X90 Pro+ can provide AptX Lossless to iDSD Diablo 2 via any player (not just Tidal). Diablo 2 at first shows green LED for Adaptive but after 23 seconds of playback switches LED to white. Previously X90 Pro+ was bugged in AptX Adaptive mode: sample rate was stuck at 48kHz preventing lossless. After I raised the issue they provided a fix and now sample rate is stuck at 44.1 kHz :)
In the developer options LDAC's adaptive behaviour can be changed to 'optimised for audio quality', so it stays at 990-900kbps. Annoyingly this one setting resets itself when disconnecting. But it's only a few taps, I got used to it.
I hardly ever use BT nevertheless I totally agree that the codec, sample and bit rate should be at least readily available information as it is for example in Roon, DACs etc
Discovering that my Pixel 5 has...none of these HD codecs at all? So many pieces of hardware that need to meet a certified spec, I wonder if bluetooth will ever be lossless for most people using earbuds. If Apple made a shift to a lossless bluetooth codec, I think we might actually the industry make a large shift towards lossless bluetooth as the standard.
I love your videos and the effort to decipher the madness that is hi-res/lossless streaming over Bluetooth! I own all three earbuds as well as the Zenphone 10. I found to consistently stream 44.1khz on the PerL Pro I had to disable Aptx Adaptive Hi-Res 24bit 96khz streaming in the Qualcomm settings in Bluetooth settings. But even then, when I enter developer settings it still shows the connection is 24bit not 16bit. So yea even more confusing but basically I agree, going from regular Aptx to Aptx lossless is the slightest improvement. The same difference using the Denon PerL pro on my iPhone 15 pro with AAC vs Aptx Lossless.
I just purchased the campfire orbit. I bought the Sony DAP to play aptx hd. But the iPhone AAC sounds incredible . There is a codec website that performed tests and concluded that iPhone had the smoothest response. Only difference was the minuscule higher freq was slightly better in aptx hd
Codecs are about 10% impact of audio quality. More important is the hardware, the recording, the person's listening, ear tipa, fit... I have Status Between ANC and they sound fantastic - no aptx, no LDAC. Triple drivers, great battery life. They sound better with an iPhone 15 pro max than my Samsung ultra. Though my lg v60 is better still. I have other earbuds, supporting aptX adaptive, LDAC etc and even with my android phones that support aptX adaptive and LDAC, the Status Between ANC sound better.
For me as long I see 2 notifications 1)connected to Bluetooth device that supports Qualcomm aptX adaptive 2) connected to Bluetooth device that supports Snapdragon sound on my Sony Experia 5 mark V phone when my Denon Perl pro is connected,im more than elated !!
Here is my two cents, I had my first Walkman in 1979, I was 9. I've decimated my hearing to terrible levels, Tinnitus on blast. I think that the subtle difference in sound from a low cost earphone to a fancy one is so lost on me at this point. And I believe that I am not the only one here. The wheels of progress keep turning don't they.
Yes, a full blown Tinnitus sufferer here that loves music. I love playing it on my guitar and hearing it. I thought if I ever had a RU-vid channel I would call it the "Handicapped Audiophile." ;-)
I’d like to add The Sennheiser BTD 600 Bluetooth Transmitter Adapter for Mac and PC and also work on iPad Pro . Adds AptX quality sound to your Device. Yes Apple Devices can use AptX quality Bluetooth with the BTD 600 Dongle. Absolutely a game changer. I sincerely hope Darko does a review on this. Using the sennheiser TWM4 with the MacBook with AptX quality audio or the iPad Pro sounds amazingly good. Hope someone reads this.
I'm happy enough with LDAC on my phone due to use (moving around in noisy spaces). What I want is support of LDAC/Aptx Lossless in desktop devices, so I can enjoy that in my house. (Of course it's awesome it is getting better accross the board)
I am using the Final Audio ZE3000 which has the aptX adaptive codec. It sounds phenomenal! For the first time, I felt that it could do justice to all those lossless albums that I’ve purchased and saved on my phone. At first, I attributed all of this excellence to aptX adaptive; but gradually, when I played those same songs from devices that did not support aptX adaptive, I realized that the hardware of the ZE3000 was as much in play as the codec. So I agree with your conclusion here. And John, thanks for reminding me of that Yorke and Donwood book! 🙌
Thank you for being as nerdy as me! Could you do a video on the variable quality levels of AAC and just the whole psychoacoustic codec stuff in general? TheSoundGuys did a big deep dive some years ago, and it'd be great to hear your thoughts.
yes, ANY transducer in the audio chain distorts / changes the sound, you are so right the 'lossless' thing comes second to the actual earbuds. Similarly LP cartridges and the whole vinyl thing distorts the signal, hey lots of people like it - and why not - Marmite comes to mind for some reason 😅
Well me too but the smartphones these days don't come with 3.5mm jack support. And after using TWS about a year now I'm so used to it that I feel wires annoying.
@@flyingaviator8158 those phones aren't even available around here in the market or online plus very expensive. I've had issue with Sony in the past; I used to own a Xperia Z1 which had a faulty display out of the box and couldn't get any support to get it fixed or replaced.
My friend, I guess that's because your Samsung works over an Exynos CPU. Apparently Samsung uses Qualcomm chips in some regions and Exynos in sone others, the last being compatible with neither aptX HD nor Adaptive. However, the PX8 must be great headphones anyway.
Hi mate@@davidferrandez470 Yes I am in Australia which now uses Qualcomm...from google...Performance. The Samsung Galaxy S22 Ultra uses a brand spanking new 8th generation Qualcomm Snapdragon processor. This would usually be inconsequential to us Australians, as we usually get Samsung's proprietary Exynos processors instead. Not anymore! Yes PX8 are a great set of cans, I also use Truthear Hexa, and you?
I think Apple may have a trick up their sleeve that could trounce Bluetooth: ultra wideband (UWB). Unlike Bluetooth, UWB allows for much higher bandwidth, and that could make it possible for essentially Apple Lossless quality audio transmission. It's been available on the iPhone since the iPhone 11 generation.
AptX Lossless is an extension of AptX Adaptive But the problem is unlike LDAC, you have no control to enforce it running at lossless mode. They rely on the Qualcomm software solution for picking up the right mode which is unreliable in my own experience. Using Pixels as test source is a complete failure as well as it can't offer Android SRC bypass like Sony Xperia with her own music app. It is locked to 48KHz. So you are lossless in the codec but subject to SRC loss which completely lose the point.
Your videos are great Darko. Casual 25 year old iPhone user here and hoping to start upgrading my audio gear as soon as I’m able to afford nicer gear haha. Super informative and thanks for sharing
Hi John Darko. Tanks for a very informative video about apt lossless bluetooth, I think it was a bit nerdi but not to much., you do make great videos, keep going. on please. Thanks for yours big work and often with a bit of humør, that make it funny to watch and learn something from. Have a nice week Mr. John Darko. Vh Martin.
The newest USB AirPods Pro have a proprietary lossless mode but it only works with the Vision Pro, presumably because they don’t have to worry about range and interference. It’s a safe bet they’d improve it and put it in future AirPods for normal use. Hopefully you won’t also need a new phone.
Hardware at this stage definitely matters more. I have IE600 on portable amp vs AAC momentum tw3 on iPhone….man….day and night in every aspect of the music. Yes I know it’s not fair comparison 😂 but still, I wish iPhone can support lossless Bluetooth
I tested weeks and month all Bluetooth codecs on the marked and can say u will not hear different between ladac and aac and no different between Alac and aac ( on a Apple device,aac sucks on android.) I used Meze 109 Pro ,Philips Fidelio x2hr ,x3 ,Sennheiser 660s2 , fiio jt1, Sony xm4 ,xm5, Philips Fidelio L4 ,AirPods Pro 2 and many different dac/amps and tablets like iPad Pro 12,9 M2 ,Xiaomi tab and more . These Bluetooth codecs are just marketing much more important is ur device and headphone .
Neither what's CD quality on Tidal hifi is not CD quality 16bit 44khz. For me the physical CD sounds better than streaming. I bought 60 CDs in the last two years and I don't regret.
Nura had a better handle on aptx Lossless than Denon after they bought out Nura. For some reason my "old" NuraTrue Pro manage to enable aptx lossless far more often and reliably than my brother's (identical apart from the branding) newer Denon Pearl Pro.
Just read the article on the Zen Blue 3. Firstly, comparing the Bluetooth bit rates between different codecs and then to audio file formats is completely nonsensical. They are not comparable. The bit rate specified for a file format is the speed at which it needs to be read from local storage to playback without skipping or dropping out. It has nothing to do with what happens with Bluetooth. It would be about the speed it would be read from memory after the Bluetooth transmission is over. Bluetooth transmission rates are more comparable for their likely impact to energy usage and heat dissipation. They differ because their algorithms are different. Not because they’re telling you how much they’re throwing away under lossy conditions. The algorithms are usually proprietary and we don’t get to know exactly what they’re throwing away. So, comparing LDAC’s Bluetooth transmission rate with the read rate required for a FLAC file is like comparing apples and oranges. Even aptX Lossless shows this because it transmits at 1.2Mb and you need 1.4Mb for a 16-bit/44.1kHz AIFF from a CD. That’s the other thing John missed from his list of reasons to rain on aptX Lossless’s parade… it also only works when fed 16-bit/44.1kHz lossless sources when using the Classic Bluetooth variant. It supports 16-bit/48kHz when using the LEA variant, which is don’t think anyone has implemented yet. It does not convert other sample sizes/rates for lossless transmission. So, 24-bit sources will only be able to avail of lossy aptX Adaptive. They claim this iteration of aptX Adaptive delivers 80% of the original audio data but I’m not sure if that covers all sample rates up to 96kHz or it just covers 24-bit/44.1kHz. Also, the article doesn’t mention the Zen Blue 3 does support Bluetooth transmission. It’s not just a receiver. So, it could be useful for taking an analog source and transmitting it over aptX Lossless. That’s provided iFi’s ADC is supplying the analog audio as 16-bit/44.1kHz. Of course, you can use it with earbuds that support aptX Adaptive and aptX Lossless. It might also have been worthwhile mentioning that the FiiO BT11 USB-C dongle is coming soon and it also uses the QCC5181 and is compatible with all smartphones including the iPhone. It promises LDAC. We’re not sure if they have licensed aptX Lossless on it. I’d be surprised if it doesn’t support aptX Adaptive. The FLOOGOO FMA120 supports aptX Lossless and is available now but it’s a little less convenient as it’s a USB-A design. It’s intended for use with desktops/laptops but should work on anything supporting USB Audio 2.0.
Great video. It can be quite confusing, but I'm pretty sure that most codecs employ a scalable bit rate level. I have tried quite a few and, ultimately, the hardware does make the biggest difference. Especially out in the world. Indoors makes it a bit easier to differentiate, but if I'm listening indoors, it isn't going to be wireless!
Yes, infuriating, particularly on the S24 Ultra that has a Snapdragon chipset in it worldwide and could easily have access to the Snapdragon Sound suite. So many wireless headphones and earbuds use apt-x adaptive (and now lossless) instead of LDAC, and Samsung's stubborn refusal to go beyond vanilla apt-x support means that equipment from Dali, T&A, Denon, Focal, Bowers & Wilkins, Sennheiser, Bose, etc will not perform optimally with a Samsung flagship phone.
I hate this behaviour of samsung where they have blocked aptx/aptxhd/Lhdc (my s23) as they want us to buy their samsung tws to use SSC (samsung seamless) codec which is way way behind Qualcomm's aptx+.
