CGC Is No Longer A Service FOR Collectables, They Create Them...Frank Miller Cover Controversy 

Great clip, great topic! I still remember chatting with Frank Miller as he was signing (for free!) at my LCS a million years ago. He signed my beat up copy of Electra Lives Again and mentioned he loved seeing well read copies of his work . I fear those simpler days are gone for good.

The pandemic only accelerated the mail-in collectibles/services industry. As someone who doesn't go to cons much, signature series/facilitators have helped make my collection better. Some creators simply don't travel as often or only stay local. I also don't want to deal with crowds and waiting in lines for hours, private signings are the way to go.

There was like a week of outrage at best when they upped their prices. CGC has already put themselves in a position where they can get away with anything because the hobby can't and won't stop sending their books to them, or rather the hobby has put CGC in a position where they can get away with anything.

Im disabled so i dont/cant go to cons. The private signing was a god send for me

if you dont buy the items off of Ebay or other sites. then these signings are useless. as you said I'm a collector, I don't grade books to flip them.

This is why Jim Lee is the man. 30+ years later and he’s still pumping out quality covers and attending conventions and meeting fans. Other iconic artists have long since fallen off..

Great content and think to think about. I like these signings because some of these creators and artist will not go to my local comic-con. Able to get legendary signatures without having to stand in long lines. I went to a three day con one time, and spent a day and a half in ONE line.

I am rare in that I don't like my books signed, so I don't send anything to CGC for signing. Excellent thoughts, well done.

I am one who sent in for the Todd McFarlane signing. I sent three books, ASM 300, ASM 306, and Spawn One. Both of the ASM books are from my collection and two books I will hold onto. The Spond book, I would consider it trading or selling if it meant I could get another ASM book that I really want it, but could not afford. Ultimately, I don’t get to go to many comic book conventions, and having CGC offer the service give me a way to otherwise get something that I would not be able to get.

Hey Swagg... I'm one of the minorities!!! I'm sending books for sign just for my personal collection. But... and it is a big but... I will always prefer to go to a Con and get a signing in person and have that good old chat.

Isn’t Frank miller dying? The fact he’s drawing at all anymore is a miracle. But I agree with the point.

All of my signed copies of my comics I had the creators themselves signing it for me before CGC ever came about, ranging from my Will Eisner Sunday 1940’s Spirits to my 1945 Joe Kubert signed Flash #62 (his first Hawkman story) and some others over the decades and talking to the many creators I’ve met over the decades, getting vintage comics signed at different shows and conventions and even local store signings is a memory I’ll always love and wouldn’t trade for anything CGC related.

This was spot on. I also feel that a lot of us are Bob, but we also sometimes flip books in order to fund more of the comics we want in our personal collections.

AWESOME DISCUSSION MY FRIEND AND TO TELL YOU THE TRUTH I AM HAPPY I STOPPED PICKING UP NEW COMICS MONTHS AGO. MY LCS HASA BOX OF THE LAST ONES I NEED TO PICK UP BECAUSE I HAD ORDERED THEM BUT THATS IT AND SEEING WHAT IS BEING PUT OUT DOES NOT MAKE ME JUMP AT THEM. ANYMORE SADLY. I HAVE THOUSANDS OF SIGNED RAW COMICS AND MANY SLABBED BECAUSE I ALWAYS BELIEVED IT WAS IMPORTANT TO SEE THAT ARTIST SIGNATURE ON THAT AMAZING COMIC I PURCHASED. I WOULD RATHER GO TO A CONVENTION SEE MY LEGENDARY ARTIST GEORGE PEREZ, HERB TRIMPE, JOE GIELLA, BERNIE WRIGHTSON, ETC. SPEAK TO THEM WHILE I GET MY SIGNATURE THAT IS IMPORTANT TO ME. GIVE MY COMICS TO CGC SO THEY CAN SCREW IT UP SOMEHOW BY SENDING ME THE WRONG COMIC BACK WITH THE WRONG SIGNATURE NAAAAA.

I can't go to cons but I want the signing what do I do I go with cgc sorry but I disagree

Great insights. You are 100% correct that CGC can see the numbers and they see this as the perfect way to continue to grow the business at the rates their investors require.

They are owned by a hedge fund that takes business’s and squeeze as much money as possible they can make and then sell it or IPO it

I love the signature series. As someone who will likely never go to a con... I think it's great.

I really value this opinion. Its very aligned with mine. I dont deal with CGC because of their practices, but i will say that theres probably a lot of people who actually just want the signature. Theres several books i have that i would be so happy to get the signature for whether i meet the person or not. That being said, i totally agree with you that CGC clearly seems to care more about the money than the love of the hobby.

I've been saying for years the reason CGC doesn't do signature verification because they make way too much money doing signature series private signings. Then every single time there is a big signing you see a flood of that artists books hit the market. The Todd MacFarlane signing was particularly problematic as he did a private signing at a ComicTraders (a comic shop in Canada) just shortly after the CGC signing and even though ComicTraders is an authorized CGC signature witness they were not allowed to witness Todd MacFarlane signatures. CGC has an exclusive contract that any Todd MacFarlane signature can only be witnessed at in-house private signing events or if Todd MacFarlane is at a CGC booth at a convention.

I believe your worry too much. I would rather send books in for signature series than spend 300+ bucks for my family’s admission tickets to a big con plus what I buy there. And signature series is not done in the break room.

I have been beating this drum for some time, but it has fallen mostly on deaf wallets. Thank you for lending your eloquence to the conversation Mickey; I for one am happy to take a trip to Rambly Rambly Rambletown with you any time.

I don't want to watch any swag videos without the goatee or without pacing back and forth

I think you should also turn these 3 coffee rants into a podcast! Valid points!

I think the cgc yellow label bubble is gonna pop sooner than later. I don't think most sigs add enough value to collectibles to keep that strategy viable

Some say the spirit of Freddy Kreuger now rests in Frank Miller. Now he just haunts our dreams with these drawings.

Ok. Hats off. This is by far the funniest comics collector site on youtube, and Ive seen a lot of shows.

We are in the junk signature era. It won't end well. Ask the people who bought junk wax baseball cards.

Hey Swagg -- great video, but to balance this commentary, there are some important points to consider. - For many collectors (especially those who don't live in California like us), these CGC sig events are the only way they can ever get a signature from an artist they care about and/or want to invest in. They can't afford to go to a con -- (even IF a local con has invited those artists) -- to have that special moment/memory you're talking about. - For most artists (including people like Dave Gibbons), this is a major source of income to make up for the small (or non existent) royalties from their past work. Not everybody has the movie deals that Frank has. - "Scarcity" is not such a universal value. As we can tell from the current market, a signed slabbed book isn't necessarily money in the bank for an investor. - And on the topic of Frank Miller, you're right to point out he's old and not in such great health. His artwork does not have the same precision or energy as his earlier work, and that's true of most artists in most art forms. But yeah, that Wolvie cover is not for me. "Old man yelling at the clouds." LOL

Rant hotel…you ARE a writer! Lol. Keep ‘em coming Swag. Love your honesty. I’ve been saying for a long time that CGC will go under and I think this is the beginning. Raw books all day!

Really great video, gives me a totally new perspective! Thanks Sam from Canada 🇨🇦

Thought provoking content as usual sir. Thanks

It's not just CGC doing it though. Some of the authorised submission companies are getting into this as well. putting together stables of artists/writers that work exclusively with them at cons. They charge higher prices for signatures, remarks, exclusive covers, etc. The artist and company gets a cut of those fees. Then they submit your book for grading and CGC get their payout as well. Definitely all about earning the $$$ now.

I sent in a Star Wars book for Daisy Ridley to sign, I know I have next to zero chances of meeting her so it’s all I can do. I plan to send one in for Elvira for the same reason. I do wish cgc graded treasury books though.

Interesting video. A couple things. First, I don't think Frank Miller is capable of producing the quality of art that he used to at this stage of his life. I wish that as an artist he would see that his skills have diminished and he'd stop. Maybe he enjoys it or, more likely, the $ is too good to say no to. Second, I think Brittany McManus is really good at her job. She has a great personality and I think the comic creators like working with her. I think that her overseeing the Signature Series program has had a lot to do with how big it has gotten. One person can make a huge difference if they are good at what they do and are driven to do it.

Or Frank Miller is disabled and does not draw as he used to. Also to note most Frank Miller art was inked by someone else. Most of his work was rough breakdowns and inked by Klaus Janson.

I will occasionally buy a book with a signature... but this mass producing approach devalues the books... and I've never been specifically a Frank Miller fan.. I mean, his stuff is ok.. I've been collecting for 34 years and never saw anything I just had to have.. his older stuff isn't horrible.. I just wouldn't say it's so awesome for me to step up financially to have it. I've never purchased a Frank Miller book because his art was so appealing.. I feel the same way about Infantino.. I've bought books with Miller Art and Infantino art, but only because they were key issues or part of a run I was trying to complete... I have bought books by: Kirby, Steranko, Romita, McFarlane, Trimpe, Adams, Ditko, BWS, Wrightson, Cole.. etc.. because of the artwork... but as far as signatures go, some signatures are becoming something that's not "special" to have... I'm not saying anything about people who like his art.. I'm just saying my opinion.. I'm sure others feel the same way about a different artist.. I personally feel Miller is overrated. 🤷‍♂️

I can’t say for sure why Frank Miller’s artwork has diminished significantly over the years. All I know is I randomly bumped into him on the streets of NYC last month and he did not look well.

I love the nod to the Rock with the rant hotel 😂😂

It has been a long standing argument in the sports card business whether signatures increase or decrease value. The consensus among the big boys is it devalues them. I agree.

Most slabbed comic book sales today are modern books. As long as people keep writing g comic books, CGC will have an easy business prescreening and grading 9.8s. This is their primary business model and the signature series is extra sauce. It’s great for the old timers who are no longer banging out page after page of artwork. The pandemic also had a major influence on the rise of the CGC signature series when gathering at cons was no longer possible. If one is primarily a slabbed collector there is something to be said about a gold labeled high grade book signed or even remarried by the creator. I personally love my copy of DKR#1 that is signed and remarried by both Frank Miller and Klaus Jansen with a custom label, even though it is only a CGC 9.0. Thus is a book I bought off the shelf from my LCS nearly 40 years ago. Had it not been for CGC’s signature series, this book would still be in a short box and not on display. So, my point is there are good things about this business angle in addition to the filthy capitalist profiteering. Great video, love the rant Swag. Keep ‘em coming!

I’m like oh now what’s he ranting about. Ok ok ok Oh in break room getting pampered. Not meeting fans. Ohhhhhhhhhhh. Well maybe with Covid still out there it’s a protection for us old people with vulnerabilities and it’s protecting both sides of the tables. But yeah I do get your points. Money money money. Abba song. And You are not an old man fighting clouds. You Are The Man Of LaMancha fighting Windmills!!!! Love it. Keep fighting Brother!!!

I wouldn't want an autographed book that I didn't actually meet the artist to obtain. The whole point of getting an autograph is so you can meet the person, right? This is all about greed in my opinion. Great video by the way.

Thank you for sharing this....

You make a great argument and point brother I’m with you on losing the whole point of Cons and getting up close and also flooding the market. Great Rant let’s Rant together brother 😎

Good video. I feel Frank Miller has always been hit or miss. His Daredevil was probably his best. You can go back to the 2015 Batman Dark Knight III Master race mini series and Frank did some variant covers and his Wonder Woman covers were eyesores. So I don't think it's all the current state of the comic industry but it's not helping. 👊🏼

Blackstone owns a majority stake into CGC while the founder has a minority stake.

Well done Swag! You're GREAT at putting things into perspective!

New fancy alternate covers and signature books are the junk slabs of the 2020s. In 10 years it will all be worthless because the pump so much out. Stick to quality key issues if you are truly looking to collect or invest. It's a great time to pickup good comics while others are buying this other crap.

Old Man Ranting here.... if signatures turn you on, then go for it. But don't expect that down the road your "collectible" is going to be worth any extra because it was witnessed. All these over-priced signatures encased in plastic tell me is "you overpaid". Yes, I love my Neal Adams signature on my Superman comic - and yes I overpaid for it, but talking with him at comic-con was great.

I had a friend that lived off Rant Rd.

So, I think it was decided a couple weeks ago at one of @bryscomics whatnot sales that you need to do a Signature Series. But you're only allowed to sign Darkhawk comics and you have to sign as SwaggleHawk. I would buy some books just to submit it for that. 🙂

Absurd, the amount of signings at CGC, repeating the same mistakes with a different spin as used in comics in the past or other collectibles until enough "marks" wake up and stop spending on the created collectibles. Especially crazy since they will not recognize other signatures with good provenance.

They are doing more and more of these and it does get frustrating. I love getting my books signed, but some of these artists just don't go to the shows as much anymore. The other thing, it drives the price up at the show. If you're getting one or two books signed, it doesn't sting as much, but when you're getting multiple books signed by the creator it adds up rather quickly. Fortunately, I got many of my books signed before the prices went up and CGC started doing this. I have only sent one book in for a CGC signing and that was my Uncanny X-Men 510 variant (not sketch unfortunately) for J. Scott Campbell, because I want to get most of my X-Men run signed. Other than that, I am just waiting for shows in hopes I can get them there. Don't blame the creators for doing these, but it is just one more thing removing the creators from direct fan interaction.

The head of the nail took a pounding and broke off with this one, lol. To answer your question, why would an artist care? I'll take a music perspective. As a rapper, some of my best verses are guest verses that were on other people's songs/albums. I cared because I had the confidence to want to be better than everyone else on that song. As an artist, I would want the same thing. I would never want half-ass art that was attached to my name, no matter who it was for or how much I was paid. But, that's just me, and honestly, I don't think many people think like that anymore. One thing I said about that Miller art? It looks like he doesn't have much experience using a Surface Pro or Photoshop, because it was obviously done with a stylus on some type of tablet program. If you look at his recent sketches, they look WAY better.

Supply and Demand will affect signature series. I suspect that most modern artists signature books will be easier to grab at a cheaper rate down the road on the secondary market. Also the memories of getting the signed books by the artist was spot on. I had most of my signatures made out to me personally, that's when you know it is for the PC and the signee respects it too knowing you are not trying to make a quick buck.

Love the honesty and your take on this subject. "Please sir I want some more"

Swagglehaus, I love your content, but there's nothing wrong with CGC doing the signings. They provide a value point for many of us that don't have an entire day or a few hours to be waiting in line for one signature. Majority of people commenting here apparently haven't even been to a recent signing of a big artist and waited 2+ hours for said signature. There's value in that and value in saving my time having a sentimental item signed. When I read that crap, "for free at my LCS a million years ago" for the other commenter, that's great, but was in the PAST, that isn't now for a big artist. I met Stan Lee at age 10 and walked right up to his table and had a conversation. That wouldn't have happened in his last (3) years prior to passing in his signature events. Some people need to stop living in the past and get off that rock, seriously!

Swagglehaus coming in hot and on point like a Rambo Flaming arrow!

great advice and take on what the comic space is doing

I remember when you could just walk up to the Midjourney table at a con and stare companionably at the interface for as long as you wanted. Don't even get me started about how cool NightCafe was before it blew up. Does anyone even care about Jasper Art anymore? Jasper's just phoning it in.

You know, those 80s Miller wolverine covers were almost universally hated. He's never been much for covers but that doesn't mean this Mayan art he does now won't end up in the Smithsonian before mine does. For covers you want McFarlane design. Let Miler tell the story. Anyway, CGC is an embarrassment and watching it wreck the hobby is painful.

Randy teally respects rants of tesponsibly righteous ramblers and reacts with a rather reasonable response to renounce the revolting rip-off reoccurring rather repeatedly right now!

Currently, CGC like many other companies are seeing a drop in their revenues and are trying to generate income. Signings are another revenue stream for doing this. In the coming months, the soon-to-arrive depression will hit the US economy and they know this along with many other companies because they are withholding their earnings statements from the general public. Plus, they also see that by locking up comic creators and artists to signings at their company they are trying to corner the market on the downlow.

If I had to guess the artist on the Frank Miller Wolverine, I would say it looks like a Mike Mignola.

CGC Board members: Only 30 post a month? Those are rookie numbers! We need 30 a week minimum. Your fired! 🤬 CGC Marketing: But we just booked dozens of content creators for their signature/pedigree series. 🫨 CGC Board Members: Your hired 😓

I do love your channel but this definitely is not a news flash. I was forced to realize, and am grateful for learning, that the books I waited in line to have signed prior to 2000, which is when the "Gold Banner" was created by CGC, hold little value in the secondary market. And CGC loves rubbing mustard in my eye and returns those 2000 prior books to me with that celery green label. Should they have invested that 20 seconds into denoting a shade of gold, either lighter, darker or whatever akin to their Gold? I think so. But they didn't. The writing has been on the wall for over twenty years.

This collector is just happy I haven't paid a penny to any grading copies. Nor have I helped to get where they are today. I just love my comics and collect what I want. And enjoy my large PC. Using my money to get more grails and keys. :) this kind of stuff is hilarious to me. Live by the geading companies die by them. It was never my thing. To each their own.

Because of the contract that CGC must have signed with Blackstone, CGC must produce at least $200,000,000 a year until they pay off their loan. It’ll probably take them 10 years minimum.

I’m Screaming 😂😂😂 at Frank Miller Shade

When your business sees a 10, 20, 30 percent increase in revenue due to adding a service, you bet the business is going to double down on it. Only reason CGC isn't "partnering" with variant retailers today is because they got fussed at when they tried it with those Death of Superman variants.

Good for Miller. He deserves to earn money for his role in the comic world. And by the way, you do not have to buy it. Love to have my Miller comic signed. He is a legend

What happens if I make a wrong turn into Rant Alley by myself late at night...? Will I emerge a different man?

It sucks for people that go to cons, less artists and celebrities do conventions anymore because they can just go to Florida and not have to deal with any FANS. A lot of the people sending books for sigs just want to flip the books! I mean shit, CGC rarely even shows up to conventions at all anymore. They are single handedly gonna end guest appearances at cons unless it’s SDCC!

While I’ve taken advantage of a couple in-house signings myself, Frank Miller among them, the noticeable spike in said signings also begs the question, will people sending books in for standard grading get pushed to the back of the line as books sent for in-house signings get prioritized? And will that continue to worsen as they increase the number and frequency of in-house signings?

Say what you want about the Frank Miller cover, people are talking about it. I view the cover as an homage to Hulk on the Avengers #1 cover, except flipped horizontally. I'm not saying I'm right, but that's my interpretation.

You're right on target! Excelsior!

i want to unsee that wolverine

Great video - I agree 100% - these are fake Franklin Mint collectibles. Those who want a signed slabbed book so they can look at it, show it to their friends, or whatever, should do it! On the other hand, anyone who does it to "invest" or buys one already signed and slabbed who thinks it's going to hold its value, will be disappointed. Hundreds of sig series, each with 1,000+ copies. Values of will hold for a couple years at the "case cost" (not including the postage both ways) then will drop every year thereafter, until they are worth less than a non-defaced book. At first, the number of signed books is equal to or greater than the people who wanted one. From then on, the number of people who want that one goes down, when any person who has one leaves the hobby and tries to sell or bequeaths one to their kids (who will have zero interest). There will be no one to sell it to. After a few years, almost no one except original owners will want one. In the case at hand, Frank Miller is long-past peak. His popularity, among those who even know who he is, is based on their nostalgia from 30+ years ago. Such people are now 45 to 60 years old and he's not getting any new fans. Same thing with MCU actor signatures. Liam Hemsworth was Thor in movies, one of about 50 actors who had a major MCU role. He's done - no new fans. Everyone who now wants his signature can get one, and then, from here on out, no new people are ever going to want a comic defaced with his sig (they're going to want the new flavor of the day). Values will drop, drop and drop. How about some Little Orphan Annie rings, or non-sports cards of NBC Radio Stars, "limited edition" gold leaf plates of famous TV shows of the 1950's from Franklin Mint? Are there any Hopalong Cassidy collectors under the age of 80? That's how it works. Why do comic collectors think this hobby is different? Let dealers make a living off of this stuff, that's their profession - but collect comics for fun.

by the time you say ladies and gentlemen, I have clicked the like button

It's a good business case for sure. Is there comparison data available for artists/writers who participate in these CGC In-House signings AND their comic con appearances? Will the comic con appearances become scarcer, by design? Controlling the market in many ways is an even better business case.

Marvel usually pay between $600-1000 I think for most artists covers, unless they’re really top tier, then maybe up to 3k

You are spot on regarding the business decision being made. I hadn’t thought about it in much detail before. Excellent discussion. One interesting result: if the market for signed books does dry up, what happens to CGC? If they bank on this trend and then people stop buying signature series, do they go out of business one day?

Between variants and signings, the comic book world is definitely changing. I, myself, would love to collect signed CGC books and custom or ratio variants. But, it is just not sustainable. So, instead, I buy the cover A through my LCS and hope I score a modern key here and there. The Bronze Age and back will always have a market. But, we should rebrand the modern age as the manufactured age. Idk, that’s my rant. #endrant

You're right. You don't get it.

All I know is momoko is the shit 🔥

McFarlane was definitely notable to me. He's not an artist I especially love, but it was obvious to me that I'd be able to turn around and grab any signed book of his I wanted without too much trouble or even upcharge if I sat for a bit because there were so many going in.

I do like getting celebrity signatures and books from artists that are too good to go to cons these days. But I don't understand all the signings from con regulars that are at almost every con, don't see how that is worth the money to submit those to cgc

I gave this a thumbs up for the title alone.

I have a few signed CGC slabs and I absolutely love them but collecting silver age stuff 99 percent of the time I'd rather have something in a slightly higher grade than signed. I also have lots of signed Omnis (Stan Lee, many more) that I got in person that will never be "witnessed by CGC" and that's OK because I have my memories of meeting and chatting and they won't leave me until they take them out of my cold dead hands. (I might even request being buried w a few!)

I wonder what the margins are for sellers who flip the books after they get them signed. Prices are already high to get books signed and graded. Seems like an increased chance to lose money, especially with so many more hands on the book for signings.

Great thought provoking video.

One reason I love Mark Bagley.. He still produces some bangers

Frank Miller's health is spotty so can't blame him for taking whatever is easier to make his bag. 💰

Just noticed this. CGC has their own Whatnot channel where they sell slabbed... everything it seems.

i only spend money on things i want and keep i don't buy for profit and im sure im not only 1 of few im sure there are a lot of people that have big appreciation for art and comics that do it for them i spent money on getting a tyler kirkham signature series with custom label and i would never sell it i've never even check what it would be worth i just love how sexy it looks on the shelf but yes like with everything there are people that do things for profit of course...but im glad artist are eating well as i'm an artist myself

Frank Miller was HIGH ASS F***when he drew this!!!!! 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

Great points!

Can you figure out the $1m pay check on this. Checked the cgc prices, is my maths arseways, when I think he has to sign 30,000 items?

CGC was bought out by the only comic book distributor in the world ding ding red flag!