I would love to see you come back and do this again in 6 months, see if CGCs changes shook up the market. Very fair and balanced review of the current environment!
I'm gonna be honest, I don't mind CBCS. If it's a signed book I turn to CBCS. If it's a book that will stay with me in my PC forever, I turn to CBCS. However, if I'm getting a book that I might move, I have to go with CGC, it's the smarter investment to retain value. But of the two, I really think I prefer CBCS, cheaper, quicker turn around, the new cases look great, and less quality control problems. I'll utilize both, but for personal books, CBCS for sure.
I think that’s a very reasonable stance to take. The one thing I think will be interesting to see over the next few months is how cbcs handles this influx of submissions. I think a lot of people forget that before the pandemic, cbcs was widely criticized for their slow turnaround times (sometimes up to 10 months, especially for sig verification). They seem to have resolved that, but I don’t know what’s going to happen if they get a huge surge of submissions with people switching from CGC.
It’s similar for me although I still send “sell’ books to CBCS as long as the book is not valued over a few hundred dollars. At lower dollar values, cheaper and faster makes up for a generally smaller sell price… and that is more important now than ever, because comics are currently so volatile that your book could be worth less by the time CGC gets it back to you.
Have to agree with you here but in the End you make the Choice to sell the book, and I can tell you this just because my book is Graded CBCS I am not taking a lose on price, if the person wants the book Ill cut the price enough for them to resubmit the book to CGC an that's the end of that I don't mind at all to help a fellow collector out but not taking a $1000 book 9.0 cbcs when the book in 9.0 cgc sells for $1800 Sorry not happening I might would do $1500 and they can take the money saved and regrade the book End of it.
Great content, I like the look and feel of the CBCS cases and although the grades are more consistent for CBCS there’s at least a 5-10% market gap in favor of CGC... with that said my choice for grading my personal books is CBCS
Thanks! I agree that the new CBCS cases are a significant improvement from the prior ones. They even seem to stack well (similar alignment) with the CGC ones.
I am pretty much done with CGC. I have a ton of books there right now, but over the next year I am going with CBCS. I really like CBCS cases better. The comic doesn't slide around in CBCS cases, you don't have Newton Rings, and it costs less. I think the "premium" CGC brings vs CBCS is headed towards a fast ending myself. Graders notes not improtant? Because you think it should have been a 9.8 and it comes back a 9.2? Would you not want to know what they saw vs what you did?
It’ll be interesting to see what kinds of changes happen between cbcs and CGC. Like I mentioned, I hope that prices normalize between the two since I think it should be the book that drives the value and I think the grading is basically the same between the two companies. But no, if I’m submitting, I don’t really care about the notes. The grade I get is the grade and I can look at the book to see if I missed something. And if I want them, I can still get them for free (if I’m the submitter). I realize that isn’t the same with others, and if notes are important to someone, they should definitely consider cbcs because they’re more complete and always free for everyone.
All great! Points you made Bro. I believe the only reason CGC sells for more than CBCS is because of word of mouth, when new high dollar collectors go to auction sites such as Comic Links or Heritage they pay more for CGC because that's what is known to the general public as the grading standard. Slowly that is changing.
Appreciate it, thanks! I think as long as CBCS keeps providing good service and if they can keep the people moving over happy you’re correct that the prices will start becoming the same between the two companies. I believe this next year is going to be very important for them to see if they can handle this new volume of submissions they’re likely to start receiving. I enjoy your channel by the way, thanks for subscribing =).
About the graders notes at CGC (long winded post). So I sent 15 books in to get graded, but I sent them to a 3rd party presser first, and he submitted them to CGC after pressing. Of the 15 books that were graded only 4 of them had notes. Four of the books came back 9.8 so no notes there anyway. Only one was much lower than I thought it should be, and I was curious as to why because I genuinely couldn't tell from looking at it through the case. Anyway, all of these books were for my PC, but since they were submitted through the presser I didn't have access to the graders notes for free. Because the presser is so busy (I think he's at the 16 week turn around time at this point, but he does great work) I didn't bother him and went ahead and paid for the 4 books that did have notes and all 4 had the exact same thing, and I'd swear they just copy and pasted: light creasing to cover light spine stress lines to cover Pretty generic since those same notes covered a 7.5 (this one hurt), two 9.2's, and a 9.4. That the exact same notes can describe a 7.5 and a 9.4 isn't helpful at all. I'm curious by nature and if all the books were 9.8 and had grader notes I'd still want to see them. it's just how I am. Since I'm not a comic book flipper I think my next batch of books will go to CBCS to try them out.
The third party presser situation definitely makes things trickier, so I can understand that. That is frustrating with the quality of notes provided and Is definitely an area where cbcs does a much better job. Their notes are much more specific (from what I’ve seen). I hope you have better luck with your submission to cbcs.
Appreciate it, thanks =). I hope CGC is actually paying attention to all of these and looking at what they need to do to change. It’s a lot more expensive to get a new customer than to retain an existing one. And right now they appear to be losing a lot of customers. I’m shocked they’re still doing all these in house signings. That tells me they haven’t gotten the message yet.
I just recommend to people who ask where, I say grab some books you’d like to get graded, split the order and pay a few more bucks and send each company half the order. Make sure the books are similar condition (I suggest recent moderns you’d be happy to have graded). Then see how you like the grading, the end product, the service, etc. To me graded is graded, idc that my FF49 is from cbcs, I love it period. But I have many more CGC books so I’m not schilling for either company
Yeah, I’m not paid by either or anything like that. It’s definitely dependent on preference and if you sell or not (at this point). If enough move to cbcs then the prices will normalize and it will all basically come down to aesthetics of the slab and turnaround time.
Great video pal. Only just got round to watching this! Wish I had you on the show last night now lol. Any criticism of CGC, always opens ourselves up for negative comments. But your video is a non biased and honest comparison. We just want the best for our comics at the end of the day for the money we pay,
Thanks =). I enjoyed watching your show yesterday. It definitely feels like you have to kind of walk tightrope with some of these topics right now. But I completely understand you guys switching to CBCS. You’ve had some bad experiences with CGC and it has to be so frustrating trusting your books with them, and then having them either damage them, or mess up the encapsulation. I’ve got books to send in and I’m nervous about it because I’m worried they’ll damage them. We should never have that concern. Their QC issues need to be resolved and it just doesn’t feel like they’re taking these issues seriously.
Amazing channel and fantastic content!! Keep it up! I am a CBCS guy as I feel they're more hobby friendly and provide a better product. I prefer their comics "philosophy" over CGC's. I truly believe CBCS is the future....when that future comes? Who knows?
👍 I’m personally mostly with cgc. But it’s largely a business decision. The books sell for more and faster. But I have cbcs books, I buy cbcs books, and I just submitted a book for grading to cbcs (but I also sent 80 to cgc). So it’s pretty lopsided at the moment.
Great video I used to prefer CGC but most recently CBCS is growing on me more and more. I actually like the label better now on CBCS just looks cleaner CGC label recently looks really crowded
Thanks! My preference is CGC. But I have had a couple of the newer cbcs cases and they are nice. I like the CGC labels more, but not the custom ones. I generally don’t like those.
I usually buy CGC slabs but that said I don’t trust them with grading my raw books with all of their quality control issues of late. I’m trying out CBCS with a few non valuable raw books to see what they’re like.
I also usually buy CGC slabs (but you can see I also do have some from CBCS). I’m going through the same thing right now. I don’t plan to submit to cbcs, but I am hesitant to submit to CGC at the moment with the current issues.
This trend of CGC selling for more money on the same grade book is BS. We have to change this thinking. From what I hear, CBCS grades way more strict than CGC, so it should be worth more if not at least the same as CGC. Doing my first submission ever on 20 books to CBCS. We will see what happens. Great video, thanks!
Thanks! I wouldn’t necessarily say that CBCS grades more strictly. I’ve seen plenty of people try to swap a 9.8 cbcs to a 9.8 CGC and have it come back lower as CGC. Also at lower grades (0.5-2.0) cbcs also tends to grade easier (from my experience). But I do think for most purposes they are almost identical in grading so the prices really should be more or less the same. Since what you’re buying is the book/grade, not the plastic case.
When you consider that the CBCS graded Hulk not only looked better, but sold for less despite being in *clearly* better shape, it just tells me that CGC is living on their reputation. CBCS has made too many strides for the gap to be this wide forever.
The CBCS copy was a higher grade as well though. So I don’t think it’s anything with respect to a grading issue. It just shows that at this time people will pay more for a CGC book than a CBCS. Hopefully those prices get closer over time and as more people move to CBCS they should. But I think the big reason for the lower prices is just less people want cbcs books. So they don’t have as much competition for them. Less bidders = lower prices.
@@AutomaticComics That's just what I mean though. There's no "logical" reason why a 1.8 nets less than a 1.5, unless people don't really trust the 1.8 grade. The cases are comparable. People definitely prefer the CGC label, but other than that? I think it's a matter of time for the gap to close.
CBCS could easily beat these CGC labels if they hired a decent graphic designer and stopped hiring their cousin to design these for them. Having a nice to look at label is a big factor. If you can't beat CGC in terms of how long you've been around, at least beat them aesthetically. I have no idea why they decided to use condensed fonts in a mostly horizontal label and have the text in color black over a mid to dark blue background. Yikes, instantly hurts readability and makes it look dirty.
The labels on CBCS books seem to consistently be one of the biggest complaints. My understanding is that the issue is with Steve Borock, the founder of cbcs. He thinks the focus should be the comic and not the label and so he has gone on record many times that he won’t do things that go against this (custom labels, etc). Maybe that will change eventually, but he seems to be a strong voice against it. The funny thing to me is that CBCS is owned by Beckett, and they have the best label in graded cards (my opinion). But they don’t seem to leverage this at all.
@@AutomaticComics With the primary focus of these companies in conservation, they need to start thinking about presenting these things like it's for a museum exhibit. They need to take a trip to MoMa. It's so tempting to say Ok boomer hahaha. Hope things will change if they want to get younger people into graded comics, they gotta stop making things look so outdated.
I agree. The founder of cbcs has said they use the blue and yellow labels because that’s what people are used to (because of CGC). So I don’t understand why they don’t use the same colors for the other “types” of labels as well. At a minimum for restored labels. I think that one really should be different to make it clear that it is not a universal graded book.
If you haven't tried CBCS, I suggested you try. My experience with them in Canada has been far easier, faster and less expensive than CGC. CBCS slabs in my opinion are MUCH better than CGC. The CBCS slabs are definitely stronger and sturdier and I've never received one with Newton Rings... unlike a few from CGC.
For a few books I’ll use cbcs, but not for the most part. I sell most of my books I buy and cbcs just doesn’t sell for as much, and don’t sell as fast. I’ve consistently seen this over and over. Maybe some day they will, but that day isn’t today.
Also if someone is paying way more for a CGC book versus a CBCS of the same grade they have issues. They need to ask themselves why are they paying way more for a cgc label and not the book. Maybe I should start selling CGC cases with a 9.8 picture of a turd since those buyers just care about the label 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 Great video thanks for making it 👍
I think they grade very similarly, but a lot of it comes down to trust in the company and return on investment. People trust CGC to grade properly because they’ve been around the longest. And if you know a CGC book will sell for more, you’ll also pay more for it when you buy it. People also often like their graded books to match for display and there are just way way more CGC books out there so they get that premium. If the number of cbcs books grows that’ll maybe change, but CGC does have a big head start and it’s just continuing to grow.
CBCS owner steve barock said he wouldnt raise prices during the pandemic. I honestly would buy the cbcs book over the cgc if both came up for auction at identical times. Its a no brainer its the same book same grade why pay more? CBCS grades tighter and have the better cases. Magazine size is coming this summer.
I think at least right now it comes down to if you’re reselling or not. If not, I agree, buy the less expensive book. If you are, you need to consider the market for those cbcs books. I do think there is going to be a shift to more people accepting cbcs books, but I have no idea how long that will take. I honestly am very interested to see what happens over the next few months. I can’t tell if what I hear on IG is kind of magnified by what social media is showing me or if the number of people that say they’re switching is as significant as it appears. If so, I think cbcs may be in a bit of trouble. They could soon get overwhelmed with volume they weren’t anticipating. But so far they seem to be keeping good turn around times.
Graders Notes are not really free even if you submitted the book because you can not submit a book without paying an annual fee. CBCS you can submit under a free account and ofcourse the Graders Notes are free.
They changed that CGC graders notes thing after I made this video. But yes, I made that same comment when CGC announced “free” graders notes. I was like….no they aren’t.
CGC has had 4 major label styles (not counting the custom jobs). I believe the originals had red labels… replaced quickly by the “old label” blue slabs… which was replaced by the more modern blue label with a bigger grade number… which was replaced by the current style. It’s notable that they had 3 different labels over the first few years, so that’s not so different than CBCS.
The red labels did overlap with the blue ones. They were for modern books specifically. I don’t know why they decided to put the moderns in a different color label. But they clearly thought it was a bad idea quickly as well lol. The most current style and the one before that are different, but only slightly. From a distance they look similar enough that they still look ok next to each other. The man problem with those older ones is the plastic. It’s not very clear so the books don’t look as nice as they do with the new cases.
@@AutomaticComics I did not realize that the reds were specific to Moderns… interesting. The like how the new CGC labels put the page color in the white box, but I would almost give that up to get rid of the Newton rings. Most cases are mild but I have had some that are very hard to sell due to the intensity of the rings (which is a factor in the cost benefit of CGC vs CBCS). Very thorough video… well done!
CGC is more expensive to grade, takes FOREVER and their customer service is awful IMO. I've switched to CBCS going forward and their prices are catching up I'm seeing less of a margin each month on sales. I also feel CGC grades and quality control are ongoing issues.
I've seen this discussion a lot recently, there is a simple reason why CGC is king, they have had a census longer and that drives huge amounts of sales and price increases...because supply and demand. CBCS just released a census/pop report...without one your company as a grading service is a complete joke. It will take 5 years of having their census to catch up with CGC, which is possible but might not fully ever happen, or they might take over the top spot if they also include better grading and or slabs etc. Right now it's CGC for a while. They have a more established pop report. For some reason this is never discussed... literally the only reason...a professional established grading company has to have a pop report.
I’m guessing the reason cbcs took a while to put one out is that their numbers were relatively low (at least in a way that can present the data in a useful way). Since they’ve been around a little longer now their report is probably more useful. But you’re correct, the more data the better so it will take time to get one that can compete with CGC. Apparently they’re already in talks to integrate it with gocollect.
Good video. In my opinion CBCS is the better grading company. They're way more hobby friendly, superior cases, more accurate grading, signature verification program etc. I like their labels more too...classic, understated and clean. It's only a matter of time before CBCS begins to eat more of CGCs lunch. I do use both companys but more of my books go to CBCS.
Thanks! I think they will continue to gain ground on CGC. CGC has such an established position I think it’s unlikely cbcs will pass them, at least not for a pretty long time, but they will continue to gain more of the comic grading market.
Hey Ryan if you had 3k extra sitting around which book would you take ASM 129,, Tmnt 1 second print or SIlver Surfer #4? Got some extra cash from a sale just thinking where to put that $ into
For me when I’m making those kinds of decisions the important thing is the price. I’m always looking for a deal relative to FMV =). But taking that out of the equation, out of those three books, I would buy ASM 129.
Truth is.. big sellers know CGC will gift grades...CBCS don't play those games.. so big sellers have been promoting the myth that CGC is "better"...since they can effectively sell lower actual grade books for higher $$...of course they're going to promote this..(poppy labels helps).this is the equivalent to Beckett vs PSA grading now... and the CGC cases have been horrible for awhile..Always scratched on the inside...Newton rings
I haven’t seen that to be true. They both grade basically the same. I’ve seen books I’d call overgraded and undergraded from both. And cbcs does definitely grade easier on the low end. I think their low end grading is more accurate (CGC puts too much into the 0.5 category), but you will see a lot of books that CGC will give a 0.5 to that cbcs gives 1.5+ to. I personally like the style and feel of the CGC cases more. So it’s definitely person to person. Yeah, the Newton rings are a little annoying, but I don’t really care about them.
I don’t have too many =). I just checked and I’ve got 22 (between Batman and Tec) so more than I thought lol. I probably need to thin that number out a little bit. It’s tough to let go of Batman though.
@@AutomaticComics I’m watching your late episode CGC v CBC difference.. but some of us would like to see what ever you got but just one episode in Batman CGC .. you seen to have many golden age ..!! Cant be just marvel all the time ?
@@batkidbeyond99 I like to think my videos have a good mix of Marvel, DC, and then some different pre-code type publishers =). Thanks for the recommendation, I’m always looking for ideas. I’ll look at doing maybe something like my favorite 10 Batman books I own.
@@AutomaticComics don’t get me wrong your episodes are very good .. you have an amazing way to explain and to inform .. yes . It’s very informative.. thing that other channels don’t explain .. the mix is good ... just show us your golden age Batman .. is amazing .. there is so much .. for example today you mention that you didn’t care about the notes or state of the comic but is more important the grade . Go a bit more deep in that .. 22 there a lot .. discuss price .. or if you planning to go higher on the same comic that you all ready have . ? ! You also mention that you are not doing this to make a profit .. but to buy what you like .!!
@@batkidbeyond99 Alright, I’ll look at putting together a video like that =). Also, I don’t believe I’ve ever said I don’t buy and sell comics to make a profit. There are plenty of comics I buy with the sole purpose of selling them for a profit. I definitely can’t afford to buy all these books on their own and just keep them. However, I currently just put that back into more comics. So if you mean profit like, using it to pay bills and that kind of thing, no I don’t. But if you mean sell for more than I buy it for (e.g. a profit) yes, I do that. I have to pay taxes and all that kind of less exciting stuff on them.
It’s not quite that simple. Whenever I have a cbcs book I’m selling I price it like a CGC book but it sits much longer before it sells than a CGC book. I just don’t get as much interest for them. There is also a time value to that money. The longer it’s sitting there the more time it’s not being used to buy another book to sell. It really is ultimately the buyer that has to pay that money for the book. You can’t force someone to pay more if they don’t value it as high. That being said, if more people decide send to cbcs, then there will be more cbcs books out there. And then I think the prices will normalize more. But since CGC books are far more dominant in total numbers, there’s just more overall demand for them as the most well known graded book.
I think the growth of the hobby has caused so much change in comics. Collecting has become investing. I use both companies, but prefer CBCS. Personally the comic community are a bunch of spoiled brats. Most of the time you can't have your cake and eat it too. A lot of changes are caused by us. But we can't change everything. Stop trying to change the grading companies. You don't like them, don't use them. Period. But I'm old. Younger people don't think that way
More interest in the hobby has definitely caused changes. I’d say what you said at the end there about not using them (or one of them) is what’s happening to try and cause change. Because you’re correct. They’re private companies, in the end they can do whatever they want, but if they don’t address their issues, they’ll definitely lose business in the long run (they already are from the complaints we’re seeing from a lot of people).
Talking comics in the 80's and 90's didn't exist and if people were talking comics everyone would say look at those dweebs talk about imaginary characters. Now a days comic talk is close to falling under politics and religion, you have to be careful what you say because someone will get upset and get you canceled on all social media platforms. It's crazy.
Within the comic community I think there have always been very strong opinions. Social media just seems to put them all out there for everyone to see =). But yes, I would say that comics have become much more mainstream than back in the 80s and 90s for sure.
Newton rings are a visual artifact caused by the plastic used for the inner well that holds the comic touching the plastic used for the hard outer shell of the case. It kind of looks like a rainbow. Like you’d see with oil on the surface of water. It doesn’t hurt anything, it just impacts the appearance of the book when you look at it at certain angles. Some people really don’t like them, I personally don’t really care about them.
That’s my primary reason for preferring them as an option. If the prices they sell for become the same I wouldn’t have any issue submitting to cbcs either.
One of the big reasons for slabbing a book is for display. So if people don’t like how it looks, they’re less willing to use them, and you’re right, more willing to pay more for a better looking label.
Have you watched Skeffs comic knowledge? He submits to cbcs and gets 9.8s and 9.9s all the time. I think it’s a misconception that they grade any differently.
@@AutomaticComics Do you know the odds of getting 9.9 or 9.8s is ? Its not as high as you think example your going to have many flaws from factory it just happens, then you got damage from shipping which also happens then nicks digs and other things that happen from packaging and unpackaging and stocking to shelf. I think a 100% yes CGC does give higher Grades depending on the amount of money spent in other words more books you send in the better grades you will get and if its a high dollar book I have even seen them contact the customer and tell them due to the grade of book the price of grading has increased and the book not even be worthy of the grade.
I know some people have that opinion. I personally do not. I’ve seen books that I consider overgraded and under graded from both CGC and CBCS. I do agree that it seems like a conflict of interest that they will charge you more if your books value is determined to be higher based on the grade. But I don’t think they intentionally give higher grades to cause someone to have to pay more. The reason I say that is if that was ever proven to be true, it would destroy their business. Grading companies can only charge what the can because people trust them as an impartial third party. And if that was put into question, no one would trust them anymore. And like it or not, people trust CGC more than CBCS or PGX or Halo or EGS. That’s why they pay more to have their books graded by them and that’s why people pay more for a CGC book than any of the other grading companies.
Well, over half a year later, CBCS is STILL less expensive (ESPECIALLY for expedited grading, where the difference is DRASTIC), and STILL has fewer quality issues. Regarding the sale price difference, yes, CGC commands higher sale prices, but from what I've seen, that difference is trimmed down to 15-20% on less expensive books ($100-300). Factor in the fact that you can get your book back from GCG in some cases MONTHS sooner, and the value proposition changes, because those months may mean the difference between catching a trend / price pump or missing it altogether. CBCS can turnaround a modern book in TWO WEEKS for $45 (this is as of the date stamp on this comment.). To get even close to that speed from CGC, you will pay $130, so almost THREE TIMES as much. The author of this video seems to be quite willing to be fairly forthright on CBCS' shortcomings, but proceeds to EXCUSE even CGC's most EGREGIOUS shortcomings. Listen, Mr. Automatic Comics - with respect - it's fine if you like CGC more, and it's even fine if you hate CBCS... but I suggest not even trying to appear balanced, because it's not working here.
You are welcome to your opinion the same as me. I did state that I prefer CGC because the most important factor for me is resale value and time to sale. I’m willing to overlook the other issues because those by far outweigh any negatives for me. If flipping modern books quickly on hot trends is your goal, then cbcs is probably a better bet for you given the time it takes to get books back.
