Chad Kassem moderates the "Stereo Mikes"- Fremer and Esposito In a "Lively" Lacquer Discussion 

I’d rather spend $500 on 10 records than on one lacquer that I’d be afraid to play out of fear of damaging. Vinyl is to be listened to, not just kept in a sleeve so you can boast you have it. I respect Mike E’s opinion as he’s never steered me wrong.

We love you Mike....you heart is in the right place. Cheers....You killed it:)

Hey Mike. I think you should feel really good about how you did.

Esposito, you acquitted yourself elegantly. You hold your own among legends, which not everyone can do. Take tremendous pride in that and change nothing. I’m proud.

One more vote for Esposito. That is integrity. I feel bad for Fremer, He's flew the vinyl flag in the face of its extinction and has earned his place in the vinyl community. However, he really pooped the bed on this one and he just kept digging in deeper and doubling down. I wouldn't have lost this much respect for him if he just would've been a good person and said, "I understand what you mean Esposito, but I stand by ERC and lacquers." He just kept tying himself in knots trying to misrepresent Esposito instead of understanding where he was coming from and agreeing to disagree.

I am glad you took part in this and I was extremely impressed with your conduct and taking the high road during the heated beginning. I am sure it must have felt good to get some validation later in the conversation from the experts of Chad's team regarding Lacquers and their potential fragility - but I was also happy to see Michael calm down mid-way, that he was able to step away from attacking you and most importantly that you collectively managed to leave on a positive note. Well done Sir!

The biggest takeaway for me from your comments (and which I think sometimes got ignored) is that (1) there are different strata of collectors based on experience and budget and (2) if people with influence like you don’t educate collectors about the differences, collectors will get discouraged and float away. For that I thank you. This began as a pandemic hobby for me and has become a passion (as my credit card statement will attest). You educated me about audiophile labels, and so I think I buy better quality thanks to you.

I wished I had seen this live. Mike Esposito has my respect and trust. Every recommendation I've listened to from him has been on point. Thanks Mike Esposito for being a stand up guy!

That was WAAAAY more entertaining than I could've ever imagined 🤣

We’ve reached the “debate me bro” of record sales resurgence

Finally watched this. I will say what I said before. I would never spend over $500.00 for an album. I don’t have that kind of cash. But Mike Esposito is correct....I’m sorry if your going to sell me a $500.00 album there better be no flaws what so ever! Period! Yes, Michael Fremer there are human flaws and mistakes, but it better be perfect for $500.00. A Mercedes is not comparable to a Hyundai. And that Mercedes better reflect that price.

Mike - I think you killed it in this debate. You were calm, and collected; made your points concisely without losing your temper when things got heated. I am with you 100% and appreciate your shootouts and opinions. I love how they say don't buy the lacquer - if that's true, then don't watch opinion videos! End of story, go home Fremer. (Even though I appreciate his advocacy for AAA products and vinyl). I would argue if Michael Fremer actually purchased his records - his opinions would change drastically.

Mike Espo…As a lifelong Music fan, I found this very entertaining. I think you are absolutely right on and it’s cool that you stuck to your guns. There is definitely a conflict of interests.

Here’s what I got from this: we are very lucky to have acoustic sounds pressing records for $40. He could get quite a bit more for his work.

Great job Mike! You more than held your own with some legends in the business. Hope you guys get together and do some more round table discussions, I think it is important and much appreciated throughout the vinyl community. Major props for a job well done!

Chad is the Don King of vinyl! I love him! About five minutes of this is on lacquers; the rest is QRP’s lineup for 2022+ lol

Thanks for sticking up for the average consumer and love you vinyl comparisons and unbiased comments. Hope to visit your store some day 👍🏼

Fremer: People question your integrity because you’re a hothead who attacks every one who disagrees with you

“But they replace it,” is a goofy defense for ERC. Of course they do. Bottom line; it’s a given the higher the MSRP, the higher a standard of manufacturing is and should be. As for lacquers, if I can’t play it 500 times, I don’t want it. In other news, this video went off the rails with the reel-to-reel discussion.

The way Fremer is talking about the ERCs I wouldn't be surprised if he owned stock in the company. There's no other rational explanation for his defense of a $575 record having QC issues

Mike bought a record from me and was very nice in our conversations. I’ve also bought several records from Mike and he was a very nice guy when I went to his store, and he has one of the top record stores in the country. Thank you both for continuing to spread the love of all analogue mediums with a focus on quality mastering! It would be more productive to the community for less contentious and more good-humored discussions.

I watched mostly for the entertainment value and was not disappointed. Right or wrong, I find Fremer funny. I have a new appreciation for your integrity all through this Mike. Well done! I was waiting for common sense to prevail with the question tape instead of lacquers? This is where Fremer dug his hole deeper, arguing that tape has a limited life (and lacquer and even vinyl doesn’t?), that it’s expensive (even though it’s less than a lacquer and an ERC), that you need an expensive tape machine (from the guy with a Continuum?), and that titles are limited (and lacquers even ERC’s aren’t?), and that it is still at least 2 steps removed from the master (equal to a lacquer, nothing else can ever be closer). Takes making a ridiculous argument to a whole new level. And yes, I will probably buy A Love Supreme when available on tape.

In what world does this guy live in that he believes it’s acceptable for a $500 record to show to your doorstep tarnished? I’m sorry mr Fremer but your opinion does not resonate

I've never seen your videos before this discussion, your concerns are more than fair and valid. A $575 record, lacquer or otherwise, should have a level of quality control way above a $30 record, none should leave the factory with obvious problems, packaged to stay that way. Even if they have a generous returns/replace policy, it's not a good excuse. They are talking about how everything they make instantly sells out, which to me means they could just skip the quality control in the factory, and just let the customer do it for them via the returns policy. The Chad guy at the end saying he doesn't mind scalpers was lame, i guess he wouldn't care, scalper money is the same as everyone else's when you selling them. It kind of ignores how it depresses enthusiasm in the wider community when you only see quality new stuff from scalpers on discogs. I like watching Fremer's videos, but he's playing these lacquers on turntables that costs as much as a house, he has the ideal set up for avoiding record wear.

Thanks for having integrity Mike. I’ve always liked you and your videos and this conversation takes you up another notch. Thumbs way up!!!

For the love of vinyl let’s all get along Mike & Mike

Michael Fremer: Theatrics, Passion for audiophile equipment and quality, knowledgeable about every step of the production of every album seen on each of his videos, Gay Drama, A good heart but blinded by his ego and unspoken obligations to the labels that flood him with very expensive records. Michael Esposito - A true warrior for the common man, woman and child who are record collectors. Buys, tests and gives an honest review without strings attached, of the item in question. Had given a thumbs down to many expensive limited edition audiophile products for lack of quality, undelivered promises, and shady production value - particularly the MoFi scandal. Chad Kassem - Passionate about the quality of records, misses no opportunity to sell himself and his products every time either Michael pauses to take a breath. The focus of the discussion is moved from the subject of lacquers to Chad's products which sounds more like a Ronco infomercial of the 21st century and occupying 80 of the 102 minutes of the video. ENJOY!

2 yrs since the “Great Vinyl Debate” - always a fun watch!

Besides the incredibly entertaining debate, I think some huge news broke in this video - specifically that Chad will be repressing the Prestige titles (!!!) and a UHQR A Love Supreme. I also find it hilarious how persistent of a salesman Chad is - never lets a moment go without advertising his stuff.

Mike, you held your own on this. I think the point is lacquers are not stable. Especially when compared to vinyl lps. And that a pressing run of 300 from an elite company shoulf not have as many defects that are appearing. I think you addressed these issues well.

Excellent video. Thank you for this, I learned a lot. I’m a long time In Groove shopper. A long time subscriber of both channels. Discussions like this are fun and educational. Thanks!!!

It’s refreshing to see a healthy gentleman’s discussion. Both Mikes agree to disagree on certain things but still walk away with respect for another.

Guess what: STILL NOT SPENDING $500 clams on a record!

im sorry but Mike from the ingroove is right again and again and again, if a record is gonna cost $500 at a limited number to 300 pressings it should be perfect, end of discussion, Fremer may be right that the medium isnt perfect but the fact is at that price range it should be

Great job Mike. You can guess which one I mean 😂. Actually, I'm a big fan of all of you guys. Keep moving vinyl forward. We appreciate everything you do.

Great job Mike. At the end of the day, everything is "buy what you want to" of course, but personally I appreciate Mike's point that what he's doing is trying to help people get the best long term value.

Mike Esposito. You are a stand up, trustworthy, honest guy.

I appreciate everyone’s passion - It is important to be passionate about the things we love and everyone here loves Music - you guys are all invaluable to the Vinyl Community and help each and every one of us to learn new things about this wonderful hobby of ours - Northern New Jersey loves you :)

So I've loved every single recommendation I've bought after seeing something i want on your channel Mike. Money will always play its part, for example your videos on Nevermind, i can't afford an org or mofi so hell yeah I'll take the $20 version in 3rd place and I'm very happy with it. That's just being a sensible consumer, get something that sounds good to your ear in your own home on your particular set up.

Despite what anyone can say about ERC, limiting each release to 300 copies is an artificial way to inflate the value way over what it's really worth, and that, my friends, is a no-no to me. So I'm with Mike on this.

I'm glad this dialog happened! I think both guys hearts are in the right place! Mike from the "ingroove" warned the public with the knowledge he learned over the years about his hobby and job! Michael fremer also made a video to give us HIS knowledge! I think both guys and EVERYBODY learned more about them from actual expert's in the field! Michael fremer plays lacquers at hi-fi shows , and has experience with their longevity! Then both guys learned that some lacquers wear better than some depending on quality and "personal care" of them! We will disagree, but we learn from those disagreements! It's important to have opinions and disagreement from time to time in a world where people kiss each other's ass just to be liked or popular! These guy's will definitely give you their honest opinions whether you like it or not! That's why I have very high respect for both guys!

Somehow Fremer doesn’t get the concept that receiving $50k-100k (!!!) worth of free premium merch from a company he reviews (and vehemently defends) presents a questionable optic. No matter how much he “resents” that implication.

This is fabulous. Three great vinyl minds together in one video.

This was a pretty good discussion. I love Chad, but a moderator might have been helpful towards arriving at some apologies- which I think were in order. As it stands, I think the discussion affirmed a couple things that most of us knew from the outset of this fracas: 1) Fremer has a history of theatrics and overstating his case. It’s part of his schtick and it works for him. 2) Mike E. Is a reasonable dude who is in touch with the average, working class audiophile Fremer stated throughout that he was incensed at those who called his ethics into question over the appearance of conflict of interest with ERC and their policy of giving him tens of thousands of dollars in free albums (a criticism that Fremer answered pretty well, IMO) BUT, his complaint is completely hypocritical seeing that he called Mike E’s ethics into question FIRST, by saying he knew some secret reason why Mike was critical of ERC’s work- a suggestion that directly attacked Mike’s ethics. Fremer should’ve apologized. As someone who saw his initial RU-vid response first, I was a bit puzzled at the heat, negativity and snark he sent Mike E’s way. At the end of the day for a company that makes just 300 items at such an exorbitant price, ERC’s quality control should be near perfect. Apparently, it is far from that. Which only adds insult to injury in the debate about the basic durability of lacquers, in the first place.

Fremmer’s a piece of work.

Fremer comes across as a bully in this video. I used to respect him, but hearing him talk like this is really grating.

"The Mastering is the most important thing" - Chad Kassem. I am saying this for years^

This was very entertaining to listen to. Not just from you (Mike) but from Fremer and Chad. All interesting fellas with different roles in the vinyl industry. It was quite educational tbh. Thanks! On a side note - Chad Kassem is a awesome dude. Seems like a really cool guy with a high passion for vinyl records, which I really respect. Analogue Productions rules and so does QRP!

Mike E, you came up classy here. It was nice to hear your perspective when you were given a chance to speak lol. You are gaining more fans each day and deservedly so.

Well done to all participants! We all have inferred the untold behind this discussion, and have now a clear idea of what the truth is. 😉💪

The most hilarious part of this whole argument is Michael Fremer saying over and over, "I've listened to this Tommy lacquer hundreds of times and it still sounds great!" Right, but does as Chad Kassem points out, does it sound as good as the FIRST time you played it? How much has the sound quality degraded over those hundreds of playings? Do you know? No, you don't, and you can't say it does because you don't know. And the spectrograph analysis "evidence" is spurious at best because the conditions under which it was done is completely unscientific. It was digitally captured and analyzed so the "sameness" is of the DIGITAL FILES not the ANALOG RECORDINGS. It's entirely possible no degradation was observed because the analog to digital converter smoothed it out on every single pass. Mike E's point is simply that paid shills like Michael Fremer shouldn't be selling people on snake oil. Yes, lacquers sound great. Do they degrade over time? Yes, undoubtedly. Should Michael Fremer be on RU-vid trying to convince people that he has perfect audio recall and can unequivocally tell you that his Tommy lacquer sounds just as good now as the first time he played it and you should use that information to inform your $500+ purchase of a Supersense lacquer? No, he shouldn't. The story here from all involved should be, "if you buy this, you're paying $500+ for between one and X numbers of unbelievable playbacks. If it's worth $200, $300, $400 for ONE 'unbelievable' listening, spend your money." If you are hoping to beat the odds and try to convince yourself, as Michael Fremer has, that a lacquer sounds as good played the 1000th time as the 1st time, and you are getting UNBELIEVABLE listenings at fifty cents to a dollar a pop, you are only fooling yourself. That's it. That's the whole story.

You did very well Mike! And i totally agree, if you get so many valuable records for free, especially from one company, it effects your Judgment. If you want or not. Even if you just don‘t mention something bad, which under different circumstances you probably would.

Great debater. Mike from in groove is very articulate and calm which comes across as more convincing. And he was right, that comment about newer vinyl collectors. That’s me. My brother. My friend. We all just got into vinyl and I was intrigued about these ERC records. I want to own the best but I couldn’t understand why they could cost so much. We need an advocate so the vinyl community doesn’t eat us alive on Discogs lol. 👍👍

I’m glad you two tried to talk it out. You are both entitled to your own opinion and if you start with respecting that fact that you don’t have to have the same opinion as everyone else and shouldn’t you can avoid situations like this.

Nice to hear all these experts on our beloved subjects. I ordered the Supersense Martha lacquer. Gonna play it for sure, will keep you in touch about degradation

It is nice to see these individuals who have a "passion" for music discuss LP issues. Thanks! Mr. Pete--------> aging hippie

Nice job In-Grove-Mike!

Damn, I needed a lot of popcorn for this one .... And yes, I have 2 of the Supersense Lacquers - Gregory Porter, and the Nina Simone one. The Nina Simone sounds fantastic, the Porter one has a hum on both sides, and some cracking noice on the beginning of Side A on the left channel.

Excellent discussion on vinyl ! Thank you all.

My take...Mike E. tried valiantly to make his case, and that he is for the average consumer. Fremer kept being passive aggressive in his incessant shutdown of Mike E's points. He continued it AFTER this video was over. And Chad? He just wanted everyone to shut up so he could sell records.

Thanks to Chad for bringing these two together.

Educational and enjoyable. Thanks for doing this.

“But every record pressing has defects!” So? I’ve gotten defects from cheaper records for $40 and they send a new one. Do they get a cookie for sending a brand new one? And on top of that the outrageous price doesn’t justify getting two defective records in a row. Fremer just seems like a snobby vinyl gatekeeper tbh, Esposito might make mistakes every once in awhile but i can tell he’s passionate and has integrity, I can’t say the same for Fremer.

Mr. Esposito I don't think they got what you were saying about Quality. I love Mr. Fremer but he protests way to much and came across flippant by all his protesting. I respect your knowledge and I have learned so much and I feel your not just in it for the buck but love the hobby and I appreciate that you care about us consumers who don't have the $300,000 systems. Thank You!

Fremer comes off looking desperate. Esposito calm, cool and collected. ERC comes off looking like shit. And Fremer seems crazy to defend them.

Meeting of the minds, great to see. 😎

Chad is not the guy for this

Hi Mike - you made some very sound points about the quality of vinyl and packaging you should expect at $500 and the QC for such a small number. They should be examining each individually for that price. Kudos to you. What I found very disheartening was Chad and Michael’s opinion about that - I really like them both but they’ve gone down in my estimation a little after this.

In Groove Mike, I am with you. A Tone Poet, A Blue Note Classic and a lot of modern pressings are good enough. It is about the music.

I review records too. where can I get a free copy?

"Stereo Mikes" should become a monthly or quarterly review show

As predicted, heat then love. You are all doing great work, let’s keep moving forward.

I hope both of you realize that the fact you are having this discussion is a sign that vinyl is in such a good place

Why was Fremer so anti-give away? Jeesh. People give to him, and he just takes?

You two were having such a good, lively debate and every time Chad chimed in his was just in salesman mode and redirected the conversation to talk about his upcoming releases. The whole thing went off the rails once he started blabbering on about reel to reel tapes.

Stelly is awesome. Spent time with me to solve a problem with my VPI scout II great guy

Mike E. - Calm, Cool & Collected, while getting interrupted constantly. Just straight to the point, and at the same time keeping the average Joe consumer's interest in mind. This is a no-brainer...

Mike Esposito I will 100% trust every time, it’s just clear he’s looking out for the collector. Fremer is dogmatic about the hobby and his confirmation bias is off the charts. I’ll never take him seriously.

Chad saying they are repressing the Prestige titles was worth the price of admission

I totally agree with you Mike, I am a private record dealer & I only sale very rare expensive vinyl, if I spend $500 on a record it better be in pristine condition, I give my consumers the same experience as if you walk in a Gucci or Chanel store. I have a background in fashion so I know how to treat customers who spend $$$$$$ on vinyl, even the packaging is "High end" & comes in a nice box 🎁

The onzow zero dust is wonderful. Been using it for years without any issues. Just keep that bubble clean. I need a new one sometime soon.

I am with Mike E. on this one. I wonder how many own a ‘high-end’ (high-end enough spec) turntable, cartridge and system where the differences will be discernable. I don't know for sure, but my guess is that a very small percentage of all record buyers have such high-end systems that will reveal any differences of such esoteric releases versus more common releases. My guess is that most people have quite modest hi-fi systems that will not reveal the differences. My system is very modest compared to what I have seen Fremer plays his records on. I will never have a 'very high' end system. I have a decent system including a well set up Pro-ject with an Ortofon 2M Bronze. With that said, how much ‘better' sounding will one of these $500 records, lacquer or otherwise, be compared to a really well mastered, well cut, and well produced $25 or $50 record? On my system, I will guess, I would not hear much of a difference, if at all. I don't think a $500 version of a record will be 10 times better than a comparable $50 version, at least on my system, or any system for that matter. Maybe the $500 version will be better by a certain degree and, perhaps, certain audible nuances might be heard. To hear the differences, I think it will require a very high-end system to reap any kind of reward. Companies are free to produce such products and consumers are free to buy such products. If someone is willing to pay 10 times for something, that might only provide a small fractional improvement, then more power to them. Such a product is not for me due to financial priorities and other practical reasons.

Logic dictates that any $500 dollar record that only 300 copies or so are made of should indeed ship out with no flaws. Extraordinary care should also go into the packaging to make sure that the package can withstand a reasonable amount of handling so that a seam split does not occur. Also to Chad's point, all of the pertinent information regarding the source and mastering engineer and process should be known. I like Fremer, but he was on the short end of this debate.

I'm certain the two Mike's could have had a reasonable debate without the need of Chad's cumbersome interventions. Every time both the Mike's appeared to be making valuable points, Chad kept jumping in. If you ever have a part two, dispense with a moderator. The discussions about costly re-issues could have been made into a separate video. The focus of this video should have been on the two Mike's unfortunately it spiraled into the moderator taking the largest % of the video. The best referee's are the ones you never see or hear.

Thank You Mike for the truth,i do not believe anything this fremer guy says..

Great discussion and good to get these things into the open properly. Well done to everyone! Mike, when are you getting the AP Prestige represses in 😂🤞

Whilst I respect Fremer’s opinions and what he’s done for vinyl, he comes across as one of those people who just can’t help himself from interjecting on every point. It’s really annoying and frustrating to try to have a respectful debate with people like that. They struggle to let others finish their point and they don’t really truly listen to others’ points. He comes across as closed minded and a bit arrogant.

Funny what we all do to get through this life without being completely bored

I love that Chad is selling the Love Supreme tape as a talking point LOL!

I appreciated the discussion between the Mikes. Mike F. was working just a little to hard to try and defend his position but I think his point is fair. Buy it if you want it. Though I do agree with Mike E. that it's just not a worthwhile product. I did not enjoy Chad shouting over both Mikes, particularly late in the discussion. He would ask a question and then interrupt the answer almost immediately. Then he would steer back to hawking his own product. Not exactly how a moderator should lead a discussion.

Lol ERC video "Unfair"??? 😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣 It's unfair to point out flaws on a $600 product? That's hilarious

Buy what you want or can afford, unless it’s given to you. Thanks for trying to look out for us buyers Mike.

Mike E - came iff looking really good here. Chad- I love buying from his store

People that would pay $450-$600 regularly for records should find some good charities to give to and go back to buying $15-$40 records.

wait a second.. THATS MIKE, OWNER OF THE IN GROOVE IN PHOENIX, ARIZONA!

Thank God Fremer didn’t talk about this system and use it as part of the argument. There is a youtube ot Mike Fremer where he shows his system and he is ultra defensive “this is mine, I bought it with my own money” Like a 85% discount And $18,000 speaker cable given to him Awfully defensive and plays up his well deserved legend too much The biggest minds are the most humble

Fart at 2:41. Great discussion! Thanks for doing this.

At the time I’m making this comment, there are hundreds of “Likes” and no dislikes on this video. As it should be. At the very least, I hope this video garners Mike more business at The In Groove. The man deserves it.

@Mike! You are the best, learned so much from you, especially now when I'm getting into jazz (and yes I was a putz that accidentally bought Waxtime crap)

Man, Chad took this one over….but at least we are finally getting our ‘kind of blue’ UHQR…?