2 S units difference (12dB) is also my experience when comparing the lossy 5:1 matching unit to a resonant antenna. Most people now know that these antennas are typically misrepresented by "reviewers" who show that it "works", but NEVER have I seen an actual comparison. Thank you for conducting an honest and comprehensive comparison! 73
@@PortableRadio Exactly ! I'm so tired of other you tubers pimping these antennas. All to get free stuff. Chuck is honest and shows why the classic antenna designs are almost always the best to use.
Chuck, Very well done man! More RU-vid channels should be doing this, instead of just being advertisers for antenna makers. Doing a legit A to B comparison is the easiest way to gauge an antenna. Sure there is still takeoff angle and some other things to consider, but this 1000% better than just seeing someone make 2-3 contacts at S3 and them tell you it is a GREAT antenna. One thing I would remind people of is, a two S unit difference between antennas is about the same difference as using 100 watts output and going to a full legal limit output. I hope you do more comparisons like this, and it educates and encourages others to do the same. We have to weigh performance, with convenience, and our setup situation. For performance I much rather go out in the field with a dipole than any of the Chameleon antennas, Super Antenna, Wolf River Coil, or most End Fed antennas on the market! It's almost like carrying a legal limit amp out into the field.
Don't forget that dipoles are horizontal. Where they will do great with regional and US contacts, the vertical will outdo the dipole with DX due to its low take off angle. It depends totally on the use case. I'm not a portable OP so I can't speak to that but it would seem a bit more challenging trying to hang a dipole than simply spiking this into the ground and rolling out radial(s). Also, an antenna may perform so-so in an area with poor soil conductivity but better where the soil is more conducive. Great and thoughtful comment!
I've had the MPAS 2.0 now nearly 4 years, and it works so well I decided to leave it on the front lawn all the time until I want to go portable. It's survived the wet and windy Irish weather for 4 years and still going. I use noalox and it's proven to be very effective to stop the joints seizing. I use the MPAS 2.0 with CAP HAT connected the 891 and use it a lot in my sitting room for SWL and to scan the bands and make some contacts when I don't want to go to the shack. I've made contacts to North/Central and South America, all over Europe as far as Australia a couple of times. All SSB and 100 Watts, even made it to the U.S a few times on 40m. And made some U.K contacts on 80m. 40m performance does suffer as expected. For a portable antenna that's really quick to set up it greatly exceeded my expectations.
Nice video. I had the same result with my chameleon mpas and dipole. 2S units. For the most part with strong signals 2S units is nothing. With weak signals 2S units is the difference between making the contact and not. Nice set up. 73s
The Chameleon Antenna is great when you want extremely stable and easy, fast setup. It is my preferred choice for SOTA (CHA MPAS lite) when activating a new unknown summit. When activating a familiar location then I may select a different setup, usually a linked dipole. It just depends. The Chameleon has never failed unlike broken masts & torn, stuck wires on dipoles.
Thanks for the honest Review and all the effort to set this up Chuck. Its what I would expect. Antennas are like fishing lures, there to catch the angler. There is 101 reviews on YT of antennas where they don't compare with a known reference that should either be a dipole or 1/4 wave vertical. I wish I had a spare half acre as I would make a videos of antenna comparisons running them side by side using WSPR transmitters over days like HB9VQQ does. This is the next best thing. Nothing wrong with a compromise antenna like this as long as people know its exactly that.
Thanks Colin. Yea I have a good reference antenna at home but not really the room to set up other antennas to be fair. Most reviews are just the antenna and it would have been just fine but I wanted to test them at the same time to see the difference. Yea a fairer test would be vertical vs vertical and I will do that later with your antenna. The vertical MPAS is super easy and that would be great for most!
Chuck, Really nice effort to present a practical, understandably limited, field comparison. Two substantially different setups: one multi-configurable, one with two options (horizontal and inverted v). CHA that covers and works on 6 bands, and one that works arguably better on a couple bands less. When faced with use of any type or design, the specific situation of use determines the superior antenna. That being said, The Chameleon series of antennas fill a slot for quickly deployed, versatile high quality antennas. “Tactical Style” if you wish. When given the space required, time/ease to erect allow, most hams will opt for the most efficient antenna available. I own and have used the Chameleon Mini, ECOMM II along with the various accessories. They both perform well and as well as designed when set up properly. They provide wide band, easily matched hf radiators when needed. They are not advertised as out performing a resonant, single band antenna up and in the clear. Chuck, that’s what your video pretty much shows, thanks for that. Suggestion for comparisons: RBN db checks and one of the SDR stations nearby, Half Moon Bay or Utah up North I use both to compare antennas, power levels and sig quality. Thanks again for an informative test, hope to run into you on the air sometime. G K6NZH
Hi George, Yea I like the chameleon antennas very well built and just trying to figure out what I loose to other antennas. I plan to test against a EFHW which should be pretty close. They are easy to set up especially the vertical. Thanks for the comment!
A totally honest, real world comparison, with the proof right there for all to see and hear. What more can anyone ask for? For what it was designed for, a portable, rugged, versatile, fast set up, 80-6, antenna, the MPAS is easily one of the best. But no one should expect it to fully compete with a dedicated unit for those bands. But, I sincerely doubt you could go wrong buying an MPAS, and using it for what it was designed for. 73
@@Chameleon_Antenna I must say, VERY good quality of build. Most probably great for many hams. Id guess it would work well at power levels about five watts.
Hello Mr. Chuck, Grate video, thanks a lot! You are absolutely right about your "take off angle" assumption. In "DX communication" , in my opinion, CHA MPAS in vertical configuration should win against a dipole :) 40M Band dipole @ 12 M is obviously NVIS , CHA MPAS - basically is ground plane antenna with way lower take off angle. KI5RCU 73!
Hands down Dipole. It's obvious, providing you can get the height that it will work better. Let's face it, a Yagi is just a dipole with the family helping. Dad is at the back stopping unnecessary noise, You drive (with your dipole) and the wife and kids are out front directing where the family goes... 🤗 I use an OFC at 30 feet for 40m fundamental, and after so many trial, I cant beat it, unless I have a yagi at the same height.
I don't know how Chameleon justifies its prices. Their profit margins must be huuuuge! Like hundreds of percent huge! I constructed a sky loop for one tenth of the cost to buy theirs and most of the construction involved rigging the antenna with ropes and halyards, things you would still need to construct yourself EVEN IF you bought the Chameleon Skyloop!!
What a great job you did on this review. I’m looking at the CHA vertical for home use. It is certainly much easier than adjusting a wolf river coil type antenna. I am glad you were careful not to over or under hype the antenna. It may be great for one person but not another. It all depends on the use case. One comment about take off angle. Keep in mind that one would need to compare the dipole against the Chameleon when DXing with an English speaking country or two. That is obviously harder to do practically. I’m thinking the results may favor the Chameleon in that instance since your comparison is more NVIS. Anyway keep the excellent videos coming ! 73 de Scott W1AL
It was almost stated below, but I would think the vertical is noisier anyway as it will pick up more local rf as compared to the dipole. Interesting test, Chuck. Thanks!
SWR tuning means nothing when it comes to performance. So not sure of all the excitement when getting a low swr from 160 - 50Mhz. Save your money and get a 9:1 balun and some wire and string it up vertically. These things are over rated for their price. By the way, I had one and sold!
I think in terms of concept of operation. You're crossing no man's land and you find a spot to take a break and or make a periodic Short to Medium Range radio check. This is perfect for that. You're setting up a Off Grid Base Camp for a few days and you don't want a fuss. This is it. I'd like to see you add the additional 2 radials and see how that goes. I'm thinking you'd get closer to the Dipole and your take-off angle will improve also. Thanks again for this comparison. This antenna is one of several I'm looking to aquire over the next few years
Great video thanks. I have been meaning to do a comparison myself, but I don't expect the outcome to be any different. I like the Chameleon in vertical configuration because it has a very low footprint compared to my dipole which is a SOTABeams Band Hopper IV that covers 20m-80m. I can operate the MPAS2.0 without a tuner on < 20m, 20m, 30m and 60m with acceptable SWR. It doesn't work for me on 40m without a tuner. Having the ability to change between those bands quickly without having to re-clip the dipole is a bonus too.
We did a great job great video thank you for sharing this yeah you're standing me ratio looks great with the tuner you should be able to work some good stations thank you for sharing 👍👍👍👍👍
I like the easy set up and take down of the MPAS. I can set mine up in about five minutes with one counterpoise wire. It is very noisy around the house. On top of a mountain with 4 couterpoise wires on the ground it was much quieter. I had a few DX contacts, farthest was 5500 miles away in Patagonia using an 891 at 100watts. Its def a compromise, but its a workable compromise. Get the jaw clamp.
Thanks for the info Josh, that is the cool pert of the antenna is that it is easy and fast to set up. I have a jaw clamp also but have't had the chance to use it.
@@KK6USYHamRadioAdventures The jaw clamp offer more mounting options over the spike. Fence posts, brush guard on the truck, trailer hitch, rails, any suitable pole/post/mast. I use it mostly to secure the MPAS to fiberglass antenna poles. The jaw clamp also allows you to configure the MPAS into a dipole: with the matching unit in the hole on the clamp, screw the skinny whip into one side of the matching unit and the thicker pole into the other end of the matching unit. Attach to a mast with clamp. I have only did this once, it didnt work that great but the bands were crap too. My tuner tuned it with no problem down to 40m. Not sure if a counterpoise in there somewhere would be beneficial or not. I would like to see some NVIS testing with the MPAS in whip configuration. I have heard guys mention it, just havent seen it. Thanks for the videos. Your doing a great job. 73
I would liked to have seen the SWR on the different bands with a antenna analyzer. I'm sure it's ok for quick portable setup but that's about it, a rattling atu means loss. Thanks for the review! I enjoyed it. 73
PD9RD, sorry about not putting the SWR findings in the video I did check them but cut because the video was getting kind of long. Maybe I can do a short video on that soon! Thanks for the comment and watching!
Using the whip adjusted to the band (20-10M) you want to operate, and elevated 3-4' with one counterpoise wire the length of the whip will give you a more efficient antenna without the lossy 5:1 UNUN. Much more economical too! Better than the MPAS but likely not quite as good as the dipole.
Hi Chuck, thank you for sharing this video. I am in the market for an antenna, new ham. I just bought a used Yaesu FT-991A only a year old. I think an End Fed Half Wave is the way to go but, since I don't have any trees I need to find a telescoping pole to buy that will work. Do you have any suggestions? My elmer suggested the myantenna 80-10 EFHW. I want to have something that I can take down and put up but I also want to use it as a home base antenna. Thank you again Chuck, I like the way you keep things simple.
Hi Janice, I think spiderbeam has the most durable portable mast, they are a bit heavier than others but more sturdy. vibroplex.com/contents/en-us/p3530.html looks like in stock in May. DX Comannder sells a nice 10m mast also www.m0mcx.co.uk/store/products/10mdcx-sota-travel-pole/. The MyAntennas 8010 is a great EFHW for home but a bit long for portable and will need a heavy duty mast like the spiderbeam maybe in an inverted V. For portable a lightweight antenna is better. Check out our stream on Coffee and Ham Radios, we are selling the perfect antenna for portable but you will need to build it yourself or with your elmer maybe. It would be a 4010 40m-10m and is very light weight. The antenna comes with everything you need to build the antenna and has the wire winder built in. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-b-yJBNAVcyg.html, ru-vid.com . We are out of them right now but will more in stock soon, email me and I can get you on the list if you would like. The FT991A is my favorite antenna to take portable if going in a vehicle like Parks On The Air. 73 if I can help let me know!
Can you tell me about the portable amp you mentioned? Is thst the MFJ Ameritron? Hoe do you power it in a park? Bioenno battery? If so what size? Thanks. Rob WA9RAD
Rob, I have a Tokyo Hi-power amp, they are no longer made but you see them for sale at times. It is Fairly compact not small and will do 4-450 watts. I have run it off my Honda 2000 inverter generator, My box trailer batteries and also off my truck battery. I think the number is 405 it's not handy to get to right now.
A comparison between a Chameleon Hybrid-Mini and a "Dipole". What sort of dipole, band and height? I'm not suprised the Chameleon dummy load is 2 S-units below a dipole, if the dipole is for the band in question, and has sufficient height. But comparing apples to unspecified oranges is not a very good test.
I know sum people who have loaded those whips on birdhouse sized loading coil on the low band. I ve been contemplating a inverted L being feed at top of 80’ tree using 4” spaced. Feeding at the top part of the vertical will keep the current node up high is my thoughts 💭🤔😉
You mention the Dipole, can I ask nicely the details of this Dipole was it cut to a paticular band or was it a Doublet or even a Windom. The type of feeder and length? Thank you Keith M0KLL
Hi Keith, I used a linked Dipole for the test. IT is actually from my first video I made for the channel, not the best video I have made lol but the first! ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-fEcAqt3MWG0.html . It is fed with coax. I have a video coming out on 5/29/22 on a new build of a linked dipole that will be a kit.
like the vidio . i have the chameleon mini up now 25 foot wire for one year, and just got 75 foot wire last week for it. it works . but not like when i had a 40 foot tree and a off center dipole up 30 feet. the tree dieded and was taking down so no dipole. that day i get out the cha hybrid-mimi and was back on the air in a few mins. and using it today but wire 75 foot and a mfj 25 foot pole. but i miss that 40 foot tree. de n3reb
Would be interesting to see what the receive is like on the other end. Reviews just look at the antenna next to you but what does the other person hear? POTA has some of the faintest, weakest, poorest signals I've ever encountered. Now can't be sure what antenna system they use. But POTA ops need to learn better antennas. Appreciate your honest no "used car salesman" approach. Those folk are ruining amateur radio.
You know I might be able to do something like that to a couple stations that have newer radios that can record. Good Idea I will try to set that up, thank you for the comment!
@@KK6USYHamRadioAdventures Awesome! BIG difference if an antenna can't get beyond 100 mile radius and one that could hit 1100 miles. Appreciate your effort. What's the WSPR thing... you could use that to see how it's being picked up? Not sure. Never used it. 73
With the Chameleon MPAS, what's the length of the whip: 17.5'? So at 20m it's a 1/4 wave vertical but might the transformer be making it less efficient at 20m?
Great job Chuck. Outside of some very specialized uses, I can't for the life of me understand why anyone would want to spend way more $$$ for quite a bit less in performance. If the stations you are communicating with are getting your signal at S-3 or S-4 with a dipole, with the MPAS, you are in the noise and will never be picked up. Even if signal strength is good, why would you not want a better, more readable signal ? I think the Chameleon antennas with the 5 to 1 transformers are gimmick antennas. The "Magic" box.....lol. Yes there may be uses for them, but not for the average guy just trying to make as many contacts as he can. Hard pass. Good quality, questionable performance. The 5 to 1 transformer eats 12db of signal. 2 full "S" units plus the loss from SWR. I have had comments highlighting the loss from the transformer deleted from 3 different channels. You, unlike the majority of other You Tubers did it right and told the truth ! Chuck, your channel is one of the few I trust to get information on how antennas really perform. Kutos !
Those lossy UNUNs (called 5:1) used in the Chameleon antennas, Alpha antennas, Ultimax, Comet antennas, and many other clones, are terrible, and I still can't understand the average Joe Ham reasoning. Why wouldn't you learn something about antennas and make the right decisions? I am sure most of you would not drive a car at 100 mph with a flat tire, and that is the right analogy when you have up to 6db loss (even more on some high bands) and expect to get the same or similar result in comparison with the matched and efficient center-fed dipole. I am not sure if we have to blame the manufacturers of those antennas, because it remains unclear whether they are really dumb or just do not care and go after profit. I have designed many commercial and amateur antennas available to the ham community, and still do, but can't lower myself to the point to make and sell the substandard products based on lies how "Flat SWR from 160-10M" is a product of my ingenuity and not simple attenuation of reflected power in the lossy UNUN transformer. The principle is the same as the use of long and lossy coax to get "nice" flat SWR at the radio end while real radiated energy is a fraction of what you have sent towards the antenna. There is no excuse for lack of interest to learn basics about antennas, efficiency, matching losses, height above ground, ground and object absorption, and the list goes on. Availability of information is out there and all you need is to tap into amazing resources available to all of us online or in the very same books you have been using in order to pass your license exam. Danny, E73M disclaimer, owner of MyAntennas.com
Thanks for the input, Danny! My first antenna I purchased after making a couple different antennas was one of your 8010 EFHW made a lot of contacts with it. I would like to invite you to be a guest on Coffee and Ham Radios to discuss this further if you would like to do that? My Email is good on QRZ.
Thanks, Chuck. I bought the lite for the RV to have something quick and simple. I am glad you showed the comparison. Your vid let me make a purchase knowing what to expect . de K0WHW @Bill-HRT
