My 2016 Les Paul Studio has a printed circuit board in it's electric cavity instead of it's potentiometers being hand-wired to the input jack and the pick up's. I decided to change that and see what's what!
I have a well trained ear. I’ve listened to your samples six times in an attempt to override any bias I could have and to verify what I heard the first time through. first, we all make the same mistake. We upgrade and are disappointed when we don’t recognize a huge difference. Most upgrades are subtle in nature. The culmination of things are what normally allow us to recognize the huge differences. No one is going switch back their pups to prove a point. But when it comes to a simple reversion, it’s easy to hear the difference; that is when you’ll really recognize the part that’s missing. As for your comparison. Both samples sound great. Nothing wrong with either sound. But… There is a distinct difference between your samples. The pc board version has a darker tone to it. It’s not bad in any way, it’s just darker. The hand wired version has a clearer, less bassy clarity to it. listen to your recording several times, you’ll hear it.
Agreed. It opened up the guitar a little. Curious on what capacitors came with the new set. Those surely are part of the equation, second the wire quality itself. The pcb has thin electrical paths, when thicker copper wires allow more signal to travel. Check my channel on changing just the wires on my PRS. Significant difference just that alone.
Did something similar years ago. When anyone asked me how I got such an amazing sound I told them I'd swapped out the pots for CTS and replaced the caps. In truth the guitar was never modified but 10 out of 10 people were convinced it sounded better. The improvement in sound quality was because I was experimenting with different amplifiers. So now, after 50 years I'll come clean! I was the first person in Liverpool (possibly the UK) to own a Roland JC 120. That was early 70's. Can you imagine hearing the (original and still the best) chorus effect for the very first time? I'm going back to the days when the best effects on offer were a fuzz box, a home made pre-amp or a Jimmy Hendrix wah wah pedal with speakers cranked up to near death. As you can imagine my local Luthier was quite happy carrying out numerous guitar mods throughout the 70's. I noticed your video comparisons were done at different times (before and after). I would agree with you. The sound is no different. If the "after" sounds better than the "before" you just simply played the "after" solo a little bit better/different than before.
i aint ever heard anyone say fuzz box ! it was red fuzzy covering ! haha , my buddy brought it over and it was old too , i have no idea who give it him , wow , that was 46 yrs ago for me , yea im getting old now , to bad we didn't have all this tech back then , but our equip was mine blowing , nothing compared , i had a 60's super reverb amp , fender - tube , the end !
@@The-Player Absolutely well said Tony. As a retired guitar playing electronics design engineer myself I have had this thorn in my side all my working and playing life. These myths need to be scotched once and for all but unfortunately the guitarist community is the most gullible and self deceiving one ever. They believe implicitly in what they want to see as the truth and cannot be shifted by any amount of factual proof to the contrary. I have in the past conducted double blind listening tests on myths like "magic tone capacitors" and "the differing sound of valve manufacturers" the answer is always the same. When they know what they are hearing the "golden eared gurus" can hear the difference - clearly! When it becomes an unknown they get it right - 50% of the time. This issue is the same. Given EXACTLY the same value components (of any type), PCBs are neutral, quieter, more reliable, more repeatable, easier to manufacture in today's mass market, and sound just the same ALL OTHER THINGS BEING EQUAL. Now that aspects like track inductance and intertrack capacitance are factored in at the design stage, where that would be relevant (hint hint), they are a much better choice all round - other than for nostalgia. Any differences in sound is due to other factors. Try telling the average guitarist that, or better still showing him with good quality test equipment, and you will be met with scorn. The only advantage that hand wired "rat's nest" gear has is that the poorly trained guitar tech can work it when they don't have the skills to work with PCBs as easily. No, I certainly don't mean ALL guitar techs, most of whom do a magnificent job very different to the engineer in demands and skillset, just the guitarist wannabees who get into "teching" without any proper training and who already know what sounds best in order to confirm their status as "gurus".
@@bordonbert as a technician who fixes the mistakes of engineers everyday and someone who went to Cal Poly for engineering myself, I believe bias confirmation can go in either direction. I have heard time an again engineers defend arguments only to later be forced by the industry and court cases to admit they had made mistakes or false claims. I own 2 Les Pauls, a standard that sold for 3 grand, and a tribute that sold for less than half that. The standard had burstbucker pro pickups and a PCB boars. The tribute is hand wired with orange caps, Gibson pots. The tribute feels and sounds much better, as much as I wanted to confirm by own bias that the more expensive standard was gonna sound better,, it didn't, quite the opposite. I soldiered the pickups from the tribute into the standard, it sounded different. But still had this buzzy/fuzzy compressed thing going on, can't blame the pickups, only thing left is the electronics. I believe my ears over typed words any day of the week. Peace.
@@realtruenorth I can't comment on the first part of your reply except to say that these are pretty poor engineers! I'm not sure at what level you are fixing the mistakes of engineers nor what form those mistakes take but it doesn't surprise me if you take low level guys without necessary rigor in their approach to their work. But the truth is that this exists everywhere. No one is perfect and everyone makes mistakes. If an engineer makes a claim and he is a good engineer he will have a way of validating that claim with a rigorous, reliable, independently repeatable, test method that can be performed by others who are skeptical and repeat his own results. If not his claims have the same weight as any "I can just hear a difference" others, and that is nil until proven correctly. "But still had this buzzy/fuzzy compressed thing going on, can't blame the pickups, only thing left is the electronics." Or something else you haven't yet identified? Like the guitars themselves!!! So you swapped the pickups between two different guitar bodies and think that that rules out all other factors but the electronics? Of course the two guitar bodies, strings, nuts, frets, hardware, setup weren't potential factors in that were they? Those aspects of the more expensive Standard MUST be better than the less expensive Tribute mustn't they? You left in the biggest variable of all and claim that the only difference is the PCB and electronics which can be tested objectively in isolation and easily shown to be neutral! No, sorry, you must admit that that is not a valid argument in any way. You are making a mistake that most musical people make when they put genuine objective engineering to one side, you assume that the thing you so want to be true must be true - because you can't think of anything else. The only way to say that is true is to devise a trial where it is the only variable. You want to believe that magic tone capacitors exist, then test them in a single guitar with only themselves and an alternative accurately matched type as the variables. Orange Drop versus plain old ceramic. Just as Gibson did, and could find no difference but public opinion fed by people like yourself demanded they change, against their own validated test results. That was after ceramic caps had been in their guitars for a while with no one hearing any problems. But when it was reported as the crime of the century everyone suddenly heard how rotten Gibson guitars sounded. It's as though it was a story straight out of the tabloid newspapers. Set them up so they can be switched invisibly and switch between them at random with the guitarist ignorant of which one is in circuit at any time, depending on a coin toss will do. Each time let the guitarist play as he wants then identify which he is listening to. Do not give him any hints as to whether he is correct each time. Take time and repeat the switch/identify process many times with the same guitarist. Over a high number of trials of this sort, when a guitarist doesn't know which he is listening to then says which he thinks is in circuit, the results sit at close to 50/50 for everyone to very high statistical confidence levels . Blind testing them so the golden eared one can have no way of leading his responses towards the result he prefers is absolutely necessary. When you do this NO ONE can identify any difference reliably. I have taken part in this type of trial and, despite having it demonstrated that the results prove they cannot reliably identify the magic cap unless they know it is in circuit, many guitarists STILL refuse to believe it is a myth. We must be cheating in some way as THEY couldn't be wrong, "everyone knows" that [today's flavour of the month] capacitor is so much more musical than a plain old ceramic. So please explain to me where in the specification sheets of the orange drop and the ceramic is the difference at audio frequencies that will change the sound between them? And not at MHz, that "trickle down" argument doesn't wash! I would suggest you have a scan over this: " http :// zerocapcable.com /?page_id= 224#22nfGraph" (Remove the spaces of course.) "I believe my ears over typed words any day of the week." There lies the problem and why often guitar techs get little respect from engineers. Their lack of rigor in their work. We hear this all the time. PCBs "sound bad". Rat's nest wiring "sounds so much sweeter", valves from company "A" are so much more open and airy than those from company "B". I am afraid that rules out your argument as a plausible engineering one in this case, despite your skills as a technician. You think nothing of the process of testing objectively to rule out any inaccuracy your ears may have. (And ears are the least accurate test "instruments" you can come up with for many many reasons.) An engineer knows the only way to validate incontrovertibly any claim in this area is to test it against provably accurate, (our ears are not), objective, (our brains are not), repeatable, (again our ears are not), test equipment in an unambiguous environment that rules out other factors as contributing to any differences. It's like saying that comparing two sets of tyres, one on a sports car and the other on a family saloon, proves that the ones on the sports car are faster than the others Sadly I would say, go on believing your own ears just as you prefer but they really can't compare to uncaring unemotional unflinching test equipment. That can easily demonstrate the ears' fallibility any day of the week without breaking a sweat. It's why any new technological developments are based in the design and development labs and not in the hands of those who simply hear what they want to hear. I realise that you are one of the blessed whose ears are more accurate than 0.001% test gear and who is immune to placebo effects and memory shifts and that your position is not going to shift on this because of that infallibility. We will have to agree to differ. I prefer rigorous engineering method to our sadly human failings in the same area. Thanks for your reply and I wish you good luck in your work, there are many many clients out there who will agree with you and appreciate your efforts and you will no doubt make them happy.
I changed mine to 50’s wiring with 500 k pots and custom pups in my Sg, I thought it opened it up too much compared too the pcb,put it back too stock with the pcb,490r and 498t, on a side note the 50’s wiring made a huge difference in epiphone LP studio with 57 classic pups. If it ain’t broke leave it be.Great video,thanks.
@@realtruenorth kinda. The big thing you'll notice is the better taper with quality pots. The brightness is determined by the pot's resistance which has nothing to do with the size, quality or brand of the pot. Always check your pots resistance with a multimeter first. A cheap dime size pot and a quality full size pot will sound identical if their resistance is identical. Resistance of the pots, quality capacitors and good solder joints are where it's at.
I heard a bigger difference on the bridge pickup, thankfully. I'm in the process of pulling out the PCB from my 2020 Gibson Les Paul Tribute now. To be replaced with old school CTS pots with Orange Drops. Thanks for posting this. 🤘🎸✌
hi! i'm willing to do the same thing with my LP Tribute 2019 !!!! but i dont know what to choose ... can i ask you what did you chose ?! Thanks from Portugal...
@@u2acrobata I used MojoTone 500k Vintage Taper pots, Mojo Dijon capacitors and a Pure Tone multi contact output jack. Hand wired, 50's style. I also swapped the pickups for some Alnico 5 PAF's. It's an entirely different guitar now! Good luck man! Greetings from the USA!
Ridiculous, there is either a proper connection or not. As Sundance and Esterfieldings said the only difference can be the pots, etc. (Electronics) . Stay away from my guitars Dimitry! I'd be willing to guarantee if I put two guitars side by side (one with PCB and one HW) easily less than 30% of the people questioned would be able to tell the difference correctly.
The nuances weren't small, it sounded like you were playing 2 different guitars. I don't think the pcb electronics were bad, it's just that the handwired electronics were better. When you took the tone down to zero with the pcb electronics, the sound was almost muddy whereas with the handwired electronics, it just sounded deep.
I believe the differences was caused by other capacitors and/or differences in the potentiometers. It is not possible to have better soldering by hand then you have on a bcb, unless the pcb was manufactured cheap. Not enough copper and and so on. That is, a replacement of capacitors on the pcb would give you the same small change. Manufacturing and soldering process of a pcb is superclean and use a lot of fluss, ensuring good connection and no oxide.
@@nikitafagerbrant2428 Here here Nikita, well said! Bloody stupid "anti-engineering" myths still believed by the untrained gullible because belief in magic is easier than going out and studying the subject rigorously. 5 minutes on a test bench with decent gear and a fact based attitude ALWAYS show this to be so much bullsquat. And for people insisting "but I CAN hear a difference", READ WHAT THE LADY HAS SAID! Yes, we all know that electrons simply hate copper laid down on a pcb and they deliberately mess up the sound by refusing to obey the laws of Physics.
@@nikitafagerbrant2428 the whole point of the PCB is to save money, my 3000 dollar Les Paul standard sounded like crap (my 1300 dollar Les Paul tribute sounded much better-hand wired with better pots, orange drops) , when I replaces to PCB with better pots, caps, and soldered it together, it sounded better, it lacked a certain compression and buzzy effect. Like transistor sounding. I had to admit I was wrong in thinking there is no difference. It's ok to be wrong though right? I believe the PCB conductors are so small, they induce a compression of dynamics. Look at competitive car stereo systems. The first thing an installer does is increase the wire gauge to lower resistance/increase dynamics, and current capacity. It's cleans up the sound. Ohms law.
You know, I'm 57 years old and even I can hear the difference. It's subtle on the neck pickup but it is there. Where it really came through was on the bridge pickup....big difference. I have a 2019 Les Paul Modern as well as a 2018 Epiphone Custom Silverburst. I swapped out the pickups on the Epi for the Seymour Duncan Hot Rodded set which made a huge difference, but was on the fence about swapping out the circuit board, pots and caps. After watching/listening to this I'm definitely making the swap. Now I need to look at the guts of my Gibson and see what's under the hood there as well.
@@bradleyclosson5042 I doubt that anyone does, unless your're talking about the + or - in regards to the resistance (250K +/- 10%, 5%, etc.), in which case most everyone does.
@@bradleyclosson5042 No.....I meant a 250K, and you didn't mention a particular pot. You mentioned that "in any given pot rated for whatever"......right? So a 250K falls into that category. +/- 5% of any given pot rating is +/- 5% of whatever a pot is rated at. The larger the pot rating the larger the discrepancy will be, but it'll still be +/- 5%. Now, if you are referring specifically to a Les Paul style guitar with humbuckers, then yeah, 500K would be one option, but some Gibsons have come with 350K. Strat and Tele style guitars with standard single coil type pickups you would normally run with 250K, however I have a deluxe tele and strat that both came with 1Meg pots that I eventually replaced and then changed the caps as well. Not sure what Fender was thinking, but 1 meg pots with single coils??? To each their own I suppose, but turning down the tone knob will only do so much. You can change the pots, or you can change the caps, or you can change the pots and the caps. It's whatever works for whatever you have and the sound and tone that's being sought after. Les Paul, Strat, Tele, Ibanez, EVH, Gretsch, Guild. Humbucker, single coil, P90, Filtertron. Marshall amp, Vox, Fender, EVH, Lerxt, Hiwatt, Dumbel, tube, solid state, high gain, low gain, clean. Digital effects, analog effects. It's all part of a recipe.
@@ronpipes1988 Gotcha, the feed only showed me the first comment. I would even say + or - 20%. I've had pots that were rated 500k that were actually 400k or up to 600k! Most people don't understand with a pedal or a guitar or whatever has potentiometers the usual audible difference is 99.999% in the pot's resistance variations.
The difference in tone could be because of the different capacitors (caps of the different bands sounds differently) and potentiometers (real resistance of pots even from the same manufacturer could be drastically different to the one on specs).
Yo this is dope I'm super inspired to handwire my studio now. there is for sure a much more pure tone coming from the hand wired stuff, definitely a bit more open and warmer. If you have trouble hearing details like these, just continue to play, trust the process and try as many different guitars as you can.
Good job Pete!!! I did the same on my LPJ, didn't do any before and after comparisons. I wanted to change values and try out things. But it seems that your experiment showed up differences. I wasn't quite happy with the ground wire attachment to the PCB board either and kept getting a buzz. It's more reliable now and feels better :) Gruess aus London!
I did hear the differences using headphones but that maybe is because of the different pots and caps brand or material. But the difference is not bad, it's just a different set of a different tone. Whether you like it or not, it's up to you.
The tone difference is significant. Hand wired is clearer for sure, and on the neck, I noticed the PCB had almost too much muddiness. The problem with PCB is while it’s easier to just unplug a pickup, it’s also a sign that this type of design is designed around the concept of knowing the PCB is going to fail. In today’s generation of electronics, the PCBs aren’t nearly as good as the ones that were around when PCBs were invented. There are original 50s les Paul with the original wiring and potting. That speaks volumes.
I'm amazed Pete couldn't hear a difference. Since he's in the room next to the speakers. I definitely heard a difference via my headphones. I definitely prefer the handwired sound vs the original PCB. Props for making this video and for doing the A vs B back to back in different tone settings!
I'm amazed too :D But my ears aren't that good. Plus I didn't hear it A vs B directly after one another! I heard the PCB then I did all the handwiring, then I heard the handwired one! Listening back (with good headphones) I do hear a difference too. Plus, I changed the pots again and re-wired everything to perfection and i do prefere the new sound a lot!! especially when you roll off the volume! (which i didn't do in the video, because i'm a complete noob :D
Pete Crumble haha you're right. I watched it and it didn't dawn on me thst you never listened to them at the same time. Only after you recorded the before and after haha I feel dumb now 😖 I hope you kept the hand wire circuit and kept the PCB out 🤘🏼
Of course I'm keeping the handwired version :) After all it was quite a bit of work to get it right ;) And i always feel that I like the guitars I've worked on myself a bit more than the "off the rack" guitars. But I have to say that I guess that most of the new sound is probably the 50's wiring and the new capacitors. I still don't think that the PCB is such a bed thing :)
Pete Crumble PCB vs. Hand wired definitely comes down to each individuals taste. I know my Hughed and Kettner all tube amp is PCB and not hand wired and I love it to death. 👍🏻 I just installed a Tungsten Floyd Rose sustainer block and a Tremol-no to my guitar so I understand what you mean about adding your own personal touch can make the guitar so much more likable. 😬👍🏻
Got a modern kit from RS Guitarworks and it completely changed my guitar in such a dynamic way I was utterly blown away. The kit is only as good as the components, so do your research. Honestly, the cleans sounded a bit nicer with the PCB but as I play heavy gain stuff normally, the range of sounds my guitar can now do is insane. If I ever buy another Gibson with a PCB I won't even plug it in until that thing is replaced.
The handwired kit sounds way better. Specifically on the bridge pickup. But here's the thing. You need to do this again but with the volume pots. I'm doing a Les Paul junior kit right now, and for a guitar like that, the volume pots is almost more important than the tone. The early juniors could sound like an acoustic when the volume was at 3
I can hear clear difference. Seems to have more clarity with the vintage wiring and i would definitely go with the vintage wiring for myself. Sad that the pots were bad that you got.
I bought a Sg that had the original Gibson pcb setup. Tried to install a non Gibson set in that guitar. After several attempts on my part and 3 guitar techs lator (one who said my new pickups were faulty LOL) because there was no way we could get a balanced anything from that set up, I decided go back old school and change the harness to old school pots etc, Bam perfection. Now that being said I do have two other guitars wired with quick connects One having Obsidian Wire harness and the other a Duncan quick connect pot. No issues whatsoever with those systems. Quick connects are great, just something which doesn't make sense is the Gibson PCB only liked Gibson pickups apparently LOL. Obsidian Wire is the bomb.
I like this vid. I thought the new pots had more sparkle but as you say the difference was fairly small. I don't think you'd notice it at performing volume. Thank you.
You did a nice job on the wiring,I feel that they both sound great,the hand wired kit sounds brighter and kind of tinny.The original pcb board sounded beefier
I'd like to hear this test with a clean sound. Distortion does not always help a comparison test. However, great job, Pete. Thanks for sharing the installation process...Me? I'll go hand-wired.
there is a HUGE difference. the handwiring is much brighter sounding than the pcb, however, I would have used much better pots. Get switchcraft pots. those are awesome. With a pcb when one item breaks, you have to take the whole unit out to work on it. with a normal setup you just change the bad part and go.
Hey, thanks for the video. I just bought a used LP studio, and wondered about that very same issue. But, after listening to your demo, I thought the PCB actually sounded better in some segments. I tried not to watch the screen when the description flashed so I wouldn’t feel prejudicial to one or the other. I Think I’ll keep things in their original format for now. Thanks!
Glad I could help. In my opinion the PCB is not bad at all. I like upgrading my guitars and I live to work on them, so I'm still glad I did it. I learnt a lot I the process but sound and feel wise I wouldn't do it again. I'd change something else. Maybe the pick ups
Cover the back of your guitar when you are soldering. Solder pops when you hit it with heat. Little pieces of solder will leave burn marks on the finish at the least. Very nice video. I also hear a difference. If you did 50's wiring you will hear more of a difference.
The pcb in comparison to the wired does make a massive difference to the type of player in comparison I heard more output in the 2k hz (frequency) area hence the clarity
I heard a huge difference. And that was a demo on an inexpensive tube amp on a high gain setting. With a higher quality amp, clean and crunch settings as well as high gain I suspect would really shine with that upgraded guitar. The PCB sounded less dynamic, more compressed and lacked any kind of character in tone. The hardwired 50s style wiring with Paper in oil Caps came alive. Even on high gain. More dynamics in your playing, richer overtones, and the tonal character of that gorgeous hunk of tone wood you have there really came through. Check out the video at 5:20 - great playing and expression that really shines with the new setup. That upgraded axe through a Marshall Jubilee amp would become a beast of tone. Nice job on your tech work - really impressive. And now you have a proper Les Paul.
try running full scales with a metronome. I could hear a slight difference, but since you focused playing in a box and slightly different licks it could be playing technique over the actual gear. This is why I suggest a scale and a metronome to give a more comparable sound. In this instance playing melody is too distracting. I would have much rather seen more of the wiring method and just 30 sec clips before and after. From what I have read and researched on this topic of hand wired les paul's there are two basic methods. The vintage 50's and the Modern; this changes which is first in the signal line. The 50's wire goes volume to tone; thus allowing one to keep more treble at lower volumes. The modern goes tone to volume; thus giving a darker tone when the volume is reduced. I think the main pro point for the hand wired, not mentioned, would be it's easier/cheaper to mod. Mod-ing a hand wired is possible and there are many ways to wire it up. Thus more options and overall control. Thank for the video.
Yep. Exactly, that’s what I did after I made the video. I got new Pots that move a bit harder (which I prefer a lot) and tried the different wiring options. I stocked with the 50’s wiring. For now ;)
Interesting! Very useful video about the long time hated Gibson PCB electronics. But, frankly, for my ears sound far too better than traditional electronics. One more thing, I prefer Gibson pots to low torque CTS, I feel it cheap and imprecise. I have two Gibson, one of entry level with traditional electronics and one Les Paul limited of 2K with G-Force and PCB that sounds amazing. Greetings!
If there is a difference in tone/sound (and I do detect maybe a brighter more 'open' sound to the hand-wired circuit) it could very well be because the replacement circuit uses a '50's wiring scheme (I can't see from the vid whether this is the case or not) which connects the capacitor to different lugs of the volume and tone pot than the stock PCB wiring which is the modern wiring scheme Gibson uses. The 50's wiring is typically heard as brighter and creates a different interaction between the vol. and tone pots.
The Bro The quality of the pots wouldn't have an effect of they're not actively being turned while listening. The pcb would have higher resistance due to smaller electrical paths on the pcb which would result in voltage loss, and thus may muffle the clarity of the tone, which is what I noticed from the pcb. Ohms law at work. If you have the pcb version, I would just run wires using the existing Pots and caps, as the wiring on the pcb is the difference here. Shorter & thicker wires = less power loss = more clarity
I would have to go with the upgrade sounds much brighter I did one to the 500 k CTS on my 76 ibanez L P custom, I can hear the difference big time thanks :)
It sounded the same except for the bridge part which was a bit trebly on the handwired. Frankly, I don't like changing the original PCB to handwired unless I broke something which I did with the bridge's volume coil tap of my Les Paul Studio. Everything was replaced with so called premium parts. Variables such as shielding, caps values, treble bleeds, pot taper values could give slight difference in guitar's overall tone. Basically it's a sum of all parts.
The hand wired had more definition and headroom. In a live situation it wouldn't be noticeable. But in a studio recording, it would have a lot more depth and dimension. Thanks a lot, now I have 3 Les Paul's that need to be gutted. hahaha
Was considering taking out the pcb but it sounds better to me in your comparison. Only slightly, pcb is brighter. I’ve a trad pro v and I’ll wait till mine breaks down before changing out.
I know basic wiring and how to solder. I could not believe when I opened up the 2012 Les Paul Goldtop Studio 50s and I filed that PC board. I don't think people understand how angry I really was. I had no idea or I would have bought a different one. And the guy I bought it off of Jehovah he had to scribe into it right on the pickups 490 and 480 some case you forget like you couldn't use a marker or something LOL
The pcb is darker more scooped better for rock/ metal..the hand wired brighter better for jazz/ country ect.. I liked both. But very noticeable difference in sound.
the difference was only slight overall but was easiest to hear when the tone was rolled right off to 0 - in this setting the PCB (on both pups) seemed to replace the pick attack with a kind of "whump" sound where the hand-wired pots retained more treble and still sounded like guitar strings with all the bite smoothed off. I would have been very interested to hear the volume pot being tested too - my big problem with the PCB set-up on my 2018 LP Tribute is that the volume control doesn't kick in at all until quite late and then it's nearly all or nothing.
I can assure you that changes ALOT! Espacially when u change from taper to linear pots (or vice versa, can't remember) you can control the volume very precisely and easily roll off from high gain to almost clean.
My studio comes with pcb electronics composing of 300k volume and 500k tone linear tapered pots. I would replace this with hand wired but not because the pcb is bad, but I prefer the feel audio taper and more open sounding of 500k.
I really felt a difference, with the gibson kit it felt muffled and lifeless, and with the new kit, a much better sound and more harmonics. thanks for the demo.
There's very little difference when using the bridge pick up, almost hard to hear but there is. What's good with the handwiring is that you can treble bleed it. My luthier says they can't do it on a PCB. I don't know, share me your thoughts.
Yes there is a difference for sure. There is even a bigger difference when you turn down the volume and you still keep the highs. Where as with PCB you loose a lot of your highs when turning down the volume. This is the biggest reason why hand wiring is always better than PCB.
I honestly heard a huge difference, and preferred the original sound. Should you still have that custom wiring in place, you might want to try soldering in different capacitors. Not very costly and makes a big sound difference. As thin as the new wiring made your Les Paul sound, it could just have been ones with too high of a capacity in the first place.
Pete, My 2019 Classic has the PCB too with push/pull CTS Pots that offer tons of tonal variations . I just think that maybe, when rolling off the volumes, that during attenuation you may lose some high end treble with the PCB pots. I don't want to rip it all out just to find out thats not the case. I am a player that rolls off the Volume pots, and tone pots a lot. I guess I have to get the Emerson Circuit with the Bumble Bee Caps, and find out on my own.
The hand wired harness sounded less hollow sounding. I would definitely go with hand wired. MojoTone makes a great wiring harness that really opened up my 2019 LP Classic
the hand wired deffo has a dirtier sound :) , very nice , the pcb is creamier (thought carlos santana was playing), I like em both, , horses for courses i guess, but a noticable difference.
The tone on the PCB was more muffled meaning with the tone at 5 on the PCB and the hand wired...the hand-wired sounded like it was at 8 in comparison. That might just be the resistance of the pot though. If you get a de-soldering wick and pump, you can remove the solder off of the pots on the PCB. If you want to replace your pots again use CTS pots.
In my headphones my ears hear way more clarity and highs in the new wired pots and definitely in the bridge position with the tone adjustments. Maybe use better quality pots and orange drop caps next time you wire it?
The new pots are much brighter from the get go. As you turned down it the tone pot it never lost the clarity of the note and kept a lot of the mids. Also you should have turned the volume pots as I believe you will discover you can clean up your sound better. Gibson uses linear taper pots 300k and I believe you installed CTS audio taper 500k pots. First the 500k pots explain why your tone is brighter, and second if you adjust the volume pot the audio taper follow what you think your ear should hear when you turn down, while linear taper goes in a straight line. Gibson pots are known for their all or nothing kind of sound, that’s due to the linear taper they use.
Man my ears are bad. I don't hear any of what you described. Plus the CTS are so loose I have to get rid of them. The feel of them is so cheap. You might be right but honestly my ears aren't good enough to hear it. So I guess in that sense I'm lucky, I can save a lot of money on pots and gear 😁
I prefer about anything over the Gibson pots. Alpha is a Chinese brand that is good, and also Bourn pots are excellent American made pots. I have a Les Paul Studio that I replaced pots in with the DiMarzio brand CTS pots and those pots as you described are loose and cheap feeling. Go for anything but make sure you check out if its audio taper or linear taper, there is a huge difference, unless you don't use the volume that much. I know lots of guys that don't mess with the volume controls and will use pedals to do all the volume boosting or cutting.
The thing is that somehow, here in Germany, there's not much choice when it comes to long shaft pots. I ordered 2 Gibson 500k audio taper and I'll use the 500k audio taper from the PCB and see what happens ;)
Audio taper should be good. My Les Paul Studio came with 300k Linear taper pots. It made the sound very dark even at wide open volumes. Pickups were the 498T and 490R, after I changed them the overall tone of the pickups were brighter, and I had a functioning volume control for each pickup. Before it was basically tone control where some of the volume would roll back a little but all the treble would be gone, and this was even if you disconnected the tone pot! Best of luck with the Gibson audio tapers I'm sure they are better than the linear taper.
The difference is slight but it's there. All things being subjective, I guess some people would want that slight difference in order to stand out a bit from their peers. That's why people splurge on cables, strings, pickups etc. in the pursuit of a 'better' tone in order to stand out and book more gigs.
@DidYouKnowScience for me it's more about the project. After doing some work on my guitar, it becomes more personal somehow. I guess it's like the guys that mod there cars, a modded VW is rarley better then a of the rack Porsche but it's fun to work on. Does that make sensce
I'm not even a gigging musician and I like a better tone, I'm not in competition with anyone 👍. And as far as strings there's a difference, i just got a Epiphone Les Paul standard that was strung with 9's and even though it sounded good it was kinda thin so i switched to 10's and it still sounds good but now it has some beef to it. So are you a "stock" guy? Meaning you keep everything stock from pots and strings on your guitar to tubes in your amp?
It did seem a little cleaner and mellower hand wired. I don't know if audio on RU-vid can help me make a sound judgment. I am doing the same but am removing the burstbuckers and installing PAFs. I have a 2019 les paul classic which sold new for $1650. I can't justify spending $5000 in their custom shop for a 1958 copy. The guitar looks just like the $5000 one and will hopefully sound like it. Altogether I will have about $2000 into the guitar, but I believe that the pickups will be the biggest difference.
Exactly, I don't understand why people have a hard time grasping this? I can understand if you want to swap out pickups, but, you can get quick connects for pickups if you want.
interesting video i have a 2016 les paul junior (a proprietary model only intended for sale in Japan but some accidently found their way to Great Britain) ) thats pretty much vintage spec apart from strangely having PCB wiring and i was going to change it with a new wiring harness so it matches the old school vibe ...but whats stopped me (apart from laziness and been too tight fisted to buy the parts )...is the wiring already fitted works great...it does all the usual les paul junior stuff like cleaning up nicely when volume rolled down and the "woman" tone faux neck pickup thing... when treble rolled off with distortion ....im probaly going to stick to the old if it aint broke dont fix it rule ...i have hand wired guitars and like you cannot hear the difference ....then again if im totally honest i own valve amps and transistorised ones and kinda love them both...and cannot tell the difference between my Chinese made Vox AC4 12 and my mate hand wired one ....he warns me not to try any funny business by try to switch them when hes not looking LOL.....im probaly cloth eared.... And of course if you spend extra cash on something its human nature to want to perceive it as somehow better ...bit like a real 59 les paul compared to a reissue or for that matter a bog standard new les paul standard...the rich dude whos just spent 200k on one is hardly likely to make himself look stupid and ripped off by saying .."hey look at me with this old tatty guitar that i could have got a new one just as good for 198 k less"...nope hes going to want to believe and everyone else who he knows who cannot afford to own what he has think that his real 1959 is so better than what mere peasants play lol....the whole vintage guitar thing i find strange as i do the relic thing where guitars look like they been played by drunks who spent more time bumping into concrete walls than playing ...i rarely bump into stuff when i play ...on stage or at home lol
Pete - all the background guitar playing, is that you? the intro was amazing tone!! what is your setup? Thank you for the demonstration make sense if there was a difference, it was negligible. One big advantage to hand-wired... options. Seems only Gibson has PCB connector pickups. Aftermarket pickups are still hand-wired en-masse. bummer.
@Chris Kobbs I do all my own playing in these videos. My setup there was pretty simple, guitar into my Marshall DSL 5C and from that with the Direct out into my Audio interface (I used a Steinberg UR22 back then). Sometimes I used to mic the amp with a sure 57. That’s bout it really.
there might be a difference which favors the new setup. maybe when you reduce the overall material, you get less issues with impedance and so on. plainly, you play well, and that might makes the real difference. if you like, take a look and listen at a small video showing SRV playing a flying V (Lonnie Mack?). it sounds like … SRV!
Guitar center ruined my Gibson LPJ guitar when they swapped out the pcb board for the regular tone pots soldering job, the tech didn't trimmed the wire and it shoreted out the signal. i should've kept as it was and swapped out the pickups myself.
the original PCB sounded warmer. I like swapping my pickups out. I would need a bag full of them little white PCB connectors to put on the end of the pickup wires. What about swapping your tone Capacitor out?? what's involved with that?
I own a Gibson Tribute, really like the guitar. That being said I always found the neck pickup muddy as if I had my hand over my mouth while talking. Listening to this video I was aware of the differences, very subtle on some settings but others quite noticeable mainly in the clarity dep. One thing I did to the Tribute, which btw has 490s in it, was to R&R the Alnico mags with ceramic 8s. This helping but just not quite getting me where I wanted to go. I may be somewhat bias though because I play an 06 EER custom tele with P90s so I have to be very careful not to try to make my Gibson into something that it isn't. What I prefer though is the clarity that is what I am getting at. I do have a question, the more I explore this whole thing the more I realize that pots , tone and volume, can and will have a profound effect on sound. My question is this; in your comparison you acquired a noticeable
I have a 2103 tribute and just went to put in slash alnicos and took out my burstbucker 1 and 2 to find out that i have a pcb in it, and the slash pickups don't have the quick connects on them, so i have no choice but to switch to 50s wiring correct?
@@markstewart8171 I just now saw this, if you haven't done anything yet, they actually have kits to put the PCB plugins on the wires of pickups, Dillon talks tone addresses this issue. I just got the MoJo tone 50s wiring kit. Got where I was going with it.
I'm hearing more touch sensitivity based harmonic brilliance in the handwired version. I currently have an SG special with pcb and it just doesn't seem to live up to the standard I have for a Gibson USA instrument.
Sound wise although just listening on iPhone if any difference I’d say the pcb sounded warmer where the hand wired sounded more trebley higher pitch shame the pots don’t fit right 😢
There is a huge difference between hand wired and PCB,The Hand Wired has much Brighter and wider range with the wired tone pot,versus the PCB which sounded much “Browner” or Warmer in tone.How ever is there was a fusion between the two like how EMG Pickups do it would make an interesting experiment,they do sound just the hand wired thing.
Do you have the original video where you change the parts at a normal speed anymore? I want to do the same thing you did but I never soldered anything in my life and I don't know ho to connect the wires...
The tone is a little crisper and cleaner on the hand wired version to my ear. Both sound good though but not as good as my modified 1998 LP Standard with Evolution pick up and orange capacitor replacements.
