Chao Garden: The Perfect Feedback Loop - Designing For Harmony

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Designing For is a series which looks at a level in gaming, and analyzes a theme central to that level's design. In this episode, we take a look at one of the most beloved aspects of Sonic Adventure 2, the Chao Garden, and see how it works in tandem with Sonic Adventure 2's gameplay loop to make something both incredibly addicting and unmistakably Sonic.
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Patreon: / designingfor
Twitter: / designing4games
Discord: / discord
Voiceover/Script Editing/Audio Editing/Cereal Eater/Director: Tommy Eyler/Pyrr ( / pyrrhickong )
Video Editing/Footage/Additional Direction: AuthorMan ( / authorman )
Intro Animation By: / @tarvouldsquest
Intro Theme By: / tracks
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Also check out our episode on Sonic & Knuckles' Sandopolis Zone, and how it also explores Sonic's level themes in a unique way: • Sonic & Knuckles' Sand...
Or our episode on Mario Superstar Baseball, and how its chemistry system improves the character of the Mario cast in a way they've long since yearned for: • Mario Superstar Baseba...
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The Sonic series, including Sonic the Hedgehog, Sonic the Hedgehog 3, Sonic Adventure, Sonic Adventure 2, Sonic Adventure 2: Battle, Shadow the Hedgehog, all characters, music, scenario, etc. is ©Sega Corporation
The World Ends With You and Final Fantasy VIII are © Square Enix Holdings Co., Ltd
Resident Evil 4 is © Capcom Co., Ltd.
Pokemon Emerald is ©Nintendo Co., Ltd, ©Game Freak, Inc. and ©The Pokemon Company
Donkey Kong Country and Donkey Kong 64 are ©Nintendo Co., Ltd, developed by Rare.
Shovel Knight: King of Cards is ©Yacht Club Games
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Footage/Images Used:
Tikal Flashback E-102 - goodcowgames ( • Sonic Adventure (PS3) ... )
Chao Adventure VMU Game - videogameclipcollect ( • Sonic Adventure - Chao... )
Sonic Adventure 2 Battle Is STILL THE BEST 3D Sonic Game To Complete - The Completionist ( • Sonic Adventure 2 Batt... )
Grump Clips: Arin's Glorious Breakdown ( • Grump Clips: Arin's Gl... )

Опубликовано:

28 сен 2024

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Комментарии : 343

@zekeram129 2 года назад

To put things into perspective: The SA2 modding community only _just_ figured out how to let you turn into Super Sonic from regular Sonic mid-level. We've had massive, in-depth chao garden overhauls for years.

@Ghostguy693 2 года назад

Wait ayo for real on the first part

@zekeram129 2 года назад

@@Ghostguy693 For real.

@Nightmare_52 Год назад

Modders knew what was important

@BBWahoo Год назад

Wow, never realized just *how* different the SA2 modding scene was compared to the other games

@greenknight9000 Год назад

That was a childhood dream come true. I deadass cried tears of joy when that mod was finally made

@ShiningStar5022 2 года назад

These indie devs need to implement something similar to a Chao Garden if they're making a spiritual successor to Sonic Adventure.

@MomoAfterDark Год назад

Wasted so many hours of my life breeding chao

@dreamcream3738 Год назад

If you want, then Poglings is a thing. Not my cup of tea, but still

@ShiningStar5022 Год назад

@@dreamcream3738 I heard about that game.

@TheCh33ks 3 месяца назад

There's a new game in the works called Bobo Bay. Maybe worth watching?

@Dinker27 Год назад

Shout out to the homies who had to break out the Punnet squares and channeled Gregor Mendel when it came to raising chao stats.

@Bobb11881 2 года назад

I'll tell you what it was doing in a Sonic game. It was doing the same thing everything was doing in a Sonic game back then, from the shooting and hunting stages to the stories. There is one thing all of these things were doing in a Sonic game: Being fuckin' awesome.

@babycatto173 2 года назад

i am honestly to this day STILL visiting my chao garden. i love the little beans so much! ♡

@TheBoodercg 2 года назад

Chao garden definitely should come back no questions asked. When I was in 3rd grade I was a full fledged speedy, treasure hunting, sharp-shooting father. Its truly a treat when you think about how cool SA2B is alone. But I’m almost sure content like this would be an easy dlc/gacha culprit and I don’t think I could ever stand to see it if that came true. I would cry.

@saffronu7621 2 года назад

It's a testament to how good it was that there's an entire community, Discord and website dedicated to it. And the reason I still play Adventure 2, which is the most played game I've ever had!

@chocobomaster210 2 года назад

I could've lived my whole life without hearing the phrase "Chaorousal"

@deviantartguy0 2 года назад

chaorousal

@chocobomaster210 2 года назад

@@deviantartguy0 It has no effect the second time. I'm dulled.

@polocatfan 2 года назад

I mean there is certain art of chao

@BBWahoo Год назад

I'm so chaorny

@HeadmasterAutobot 2 года назад

I barely ever used the Chao Garden (as I only ever rented SA2B), but I remember the zen atmosphere (and bizarrely intricate, replayable progression). There's practically enough for a whole other game! Really makes me wonder what the designers and programmers planned when they cooked this up.

@suraivase7285 2 года назад

Maybe the people who made the Chao Garden portion of the game where really into Tamogachi and wanted to implement that into the game as a side mode? That's my theory on it anyway.

@chickenflavor9880 2 года назад

I think the chao garden is a good idea but needs a little bit more interactivity imo

@starcutter4509 2 года назад

This is the reason Sa2 is my favorite game

@DeltaFrazzle 2 года назад

i will never stop wanting a chao garden, and not a watered down version, btw.

@MrSkerpentine 2 года назад

D4 getting a sponsorship on the video released *right after* the video about Spamton’s desperation is kinda horrifying but also kinda funny

@theficticion1231 Год назад

I've gotta admit that most of my time playing SA2 was spent replaying levels so I could buy more chao eggs XD I adore raising these chaos and actually projected Sonic having chao-babies into his motivation for beating eggman XD XD so nostalgic

@jnolasco24 Год назад

Came here from Chadtronic’s video about the video game he is developing, Poglings - people in the comments kept talking about Chao Garden so I needed to know what that was. Thanks for the video!

@GamerTowerDX 2 года назад

YO MAH BOY D4 GETTING SPONSORS NOW? LETS FUCKING GOOOOOOOOO

@EduSolsa 2 года назад

I barely touched the Chao Garden when I played SA2, never appeal to me. Pretty cool to see how deep and complex it is

@danielandersson5345 Год назад

Its the best its so unique and fun in a way i cant say

@jamespowers.gpa. 5 дней назад

It’s hard to find any solid content around SA2 Chao garden, understandably so lol, so I really appreciate the vid. This game hit at a perfect point in my childhood so I already loved the game but to this day I will still come back and it’s mostly because of this awesome Chao Garden(s). .. and if it wasn’t clear enough, I’m one of those people screaming, PLEASE Bring Back Chao’s! Honestly the way people fell into Palworld and Pokemon just doing the bare minimum the last couple games, people would kill for a Chao system done right as well as bring in a wider audience and I do believe the juice is worth the squeeze (just like I wanna squeeze those cute little Chao’s to a point where it’s almost too much just before catching myself and releasing them back into their adorable environments) Much love

@TarvouldsQuest 2 года назад

YOSH. He said, eating some delicious Magic Spoon. I seriously miss the Chao garden. Aside from having a blast running around as EGGMAN and Brady'ing my evil children into the stratosphere, I did really enjoy watchin' dem numbers go up, and my babies getting shinier and more beastly. I 100%'d this game once on Gamecube and after I did I said the Chao Garden was by far the worst. Yet years later I only have fond memories, so what did I know? I remember also mastering City Escape BECAUSE of the Chao Garden. I would only buy the fruit that raised all stats, so I would blast through City Escape and get almost every ring I could as fast as possible to fund my baby. Eventually becoming speedrunner-esque in nature for that one level. And THAT was super fun too. I connected it with the GBA and Sonic Advance, faught my friends Chaos (hate the plural of this word btw), and made any girl that would talk to me at the time go "AWWWWWWW." So clearly I owe this side game a lot. Love it. How is this not a mobile game yet?!

@MRDLT00 2 года назад

Can you imagine if they Remastered Sonic Adventure 1 and 2 into a combined compilation game like the Spyro and Crash Bandicoot trilogies? Would be magic. :')

@BAIGAMING 2 года назад

16:50 I like it when a game has card games, like FF8's Triple Triad card game, The Witcher's Gwent, or even Cold Steel's Vantage Masters. Something is wrong when even the developers in Cold Steel 4 were making a joke, where you do a card game battle against the private military company's leader instead of actually fight him 😂

@danielbetancourt1483 2 года назад

Me and my boys been getting together on the weekends and playing SA2 Battle over a few beers the last few weeks. Great times

@thecbarpsh3215 2 года назад

What a time to find this, immediately after four of my chao in Sonic Adventure DC vanish from the memory card without a trace while the game is off.

@Legionary219 Год назад

The chao garden in Sonic Adventure 2 and breeding fish in Dark Cloud 2 took up so much of my free time

@direktexe8436 2 года назад

Hey I saw your video on gradius which brought me here. One shoot 'em up series that doesn't get much attention is Thunder Force. Many of us thunder force fans recommend thunder force 3 for shmup beginners since it does a good job at introducing you to level gimmicks. Thunder Force 4 is where the fun is at. The game also encourages wise weapon choice. Take the stationary enemies in the desert level for example. They are somewhat immune to the hunter weapon but they still absorb the Hunter weapon spheres as a way to render our most reliable option useless and conditions us to use our other weapons. Its also a pain in our side since the level is littered with tank units that burrow in the sand and relocate in order to find better positioning to snipe us out of the air. You'll enjoy breaking down the game's 2-screen level size. The bosses have a slight element of random to them. The stage 4 boss is the hardest in the game since it tends to be very unpredictable. Its theme is also a banger as well. Stages 1, 2, 4, 7 and 8 are a good example of how the larger levels allow for players to choose their own path to suit their experience. There is typically a lot of different enemy types in thunder force games and TF4 hits that on the spot.

@DarkHeroAkutare 2 года назад

"Do I think that Chao Garden is this transcendent feature that every game should aspire to have, or that it utterly completes Sonic Adventure 2 and ignoring it means you're playing the game wrong?" Man... I was seriously hoping you were just going to follow that up with "yes."

@CinnaSwirls 2 года назад

Well, there are also people who hated it so I think "yes" would be awful and gate keeping.

@DarkHeroAkutare 2 года назад

@@CinnaSwirls it's joke

@Prince_Cheddar 3 месяца назад

Chao tap into a kind of parental instinct, the desire to look after things and make their lives good. It's a bit like The Sims. Plus they're adorable blob fairies you can engage in blood sports with. I think the ideal way to bring them back would be to have standalone software that interfaces with Sonic games. Playing Sonic games grants you items directly and rings to spend in the chao garden software. New Sonic game comes out, the chao software updates with new content, and you're incentivized to go and buy the new Sonic game, so you can get new items in a fresh new adventure.

@Palendrome 5 месяцев назад

Chao Garden in SA2 felt like "Home". You go run around, then you head home to see your buddies. Actually it would be awesome, in a game that is either open world, or hub world like SA1, if the Chao Garden was literally at your home base in the open world, rather than sectioned off. Like, they should have done that in SA1

@WikiSorcerer Год назад

I remember investing a lot of my time in the SA2 Chao Garden when I was younger. Then a year or two ago, I found out I could have the game on my PS3 and it happened again.

@Triplebrc Год назад

It was meant as a side mode, but anyone I ever talked to about this game agreed that it was the main mode. All the mission progress and earning of emblems was only ever to unlock more chao stuff

@felonyx5123 2 года назад

Got recommended this and then watched your Dragon Quest 5 video, I'm impressed.

@ShockwaveITB 2 года назад

I spent so much time on the chao island website. Just looking at all the different chao. Let alone time spent in the garden(s). Part of why SA2B is my favorite game of all time. (I’m also a fan of the speed, mech and hunting levels ...even if I’m not good at the hunting levels). The CHAO garden just makes the game even better.

@jamesguitarist 2 года назад

I booted this up yesterday just to freshly start a new chao garden. The grind begins.

@SuperVoodude 2 года назад

I know a lot of folks have talked about Chao Garden being good enough to be a standalone game. But as shared here, and from what I've seen from some very nice fan-made attempts, it doesn't have the same luster without the main game imo. (Please note that I didn't say it was "worse".) Like a scale, the chill and simple Chao gameplay is balanced with the faster paced main gameplay. Anytime you've had too much of one, you can go to the other. With the fangames being chill and nothing else, I found myself getting bored much faster.

@thebananamelon5065 5 месяцев назад

I bought SADX, a Gameboy link cable, and Sonic Pinball party JUST so I can optimize my SA2B Chao garden. I gotta breed that SADX gold Chao with a shiny Chao to get an invisible/transparent chao

@FracturedPixel 6 месяцев назад

SA2 was the peak of Sonic, and the chao garden was a big part of that

@Galeforce017 2 года назад

Perfect video for making me wanna slap the game on and spend the next 12 hours in the Chao Garden.

@douglasverhoeven836 10 месяцев назад

when your friend wants to know more about chao's 12:39-14:45

@transportationuk7656 2 года назад

A solo Chao Rising Game would be a great idea. Starring Cream and Cheese. Taking care of Cheese would be a Tutorial with Cream as a Coach. Okay that’s it! Once I have Roblox Studio and a powerful gaming computer I will make a fan game in Roblox. Cream and Cheese’s Chao Garden the name.

@Coolmanbob7 2 года назад

The only Sonic game I've ever played more than ten hours of was SA2:B for the GameCube. Specifically for the Chao raising. I played it at least 100 hours. Idr why but this video should help

@dyllburg 2 года назад

HOW HAVE I NEVER HEARD THOSE AMY THEME LYRICS!!!??? WHAAAT!

@itsmethatperson7382 2 года назад

i always had an idea were sega made a chao garden game that connects to other sonic games. This way you can play any sonic game and get chaos drives from enemy's or animals. (depending on what game you play ofcourse)

@o2xygen717 2 года назад

My understanding is that Sonic Team will only bring back the Chao garden if it fits well into the type of game they're making. So if Sonic Frontiers doesn't have one, that would be a massive missed opportunity.

@LargeSnax Месяц назад

I love Chao garden. I played again as an adult and finally won some of those races lol.

@AgentXRifle 2 года назад

Played this and Skies of Arcadia on my VMU for a bit, batteries started costing me haha

@cwynwyn2934 2 года назад

Even if you don't like the gameplay of Knuckles/Rouge stages, the music in Pumpkin Hill justifies its inclusion.

@mortmortmort8908 6 месяцев назад

[picks up controller] welp. guess I'm playing sonic tonight

@mad_quack 2 года назад

As a kid, I took full advantage of playing with chao. I have more hours put into SA2B than any other game I’ve ever played

@knack3381 2 года назад

18:14 what a supremely cursed image

6 месяцев назад

Did he say trapped inside those eggman's robots.

@JJSSBU 2 года назад

Duck Life? What are YOU doing here in Sonic Adventure?

@Mud-Brain 2 года назад

I spent so much time on the chao garden as a kid I'm surprised my gamecube never overheated. I even got PSO just for the tails chao easter egg and hooooo boy that game ain't cheap these days. Gotta get back to work on my own chao video lmao

@gianni50725 3 месяца назад

i bought sonic adventure 2 on steam JUST for the chao garden and no other reason

@Manavine 3 месяца назад

I think chao being simple would have ironically worked better in SA1, where visiting a garden between each mission is not really something a player is gonna do. But the system fits SA2 a lot!

@makanimanuwai2 2 года назад

This is the product of the RU-vid loophole

@gusty7153 2 года назад

from my perspective, the chao garden is pretty much a separate game in of itself that's fun and could compete as an alternative to pokemon. and with racing minigame, a much less violent alternative to pokemon for those kind of people that might think pokemon is too violent

@PukeTops 2 года назад

They need to bring back Chao Garden in the next game! P.S: this is why Sonic Adventure saga is perfect.

@lukezyx8031 2 года назад

Awesome video man

@justsomejojo 2 года назад

I'm not even *that* big of a fan of the Sonic gameplay, but I loved replaying SA2 stages just for raising my Chao. When I played Sonic Forces, I actually had quite a bit of fun for a while but never felt compelled to play the levels more than a handful of times, if even that. The outfits were a decent motivator, but I think the Chao garden would have done a LOT to alleviate the complaints of the game being too short, for much the same reasons you mentioned.

@MastaDivinity 2 года назад

It boggles my mind on why Sega won't bring this back I sone form. I sunk so much time into Chao garden.

@hugoflores1093 2 года назад

Couldn't have said it better myself

@timwin8194 2 года назад

Yosh 😊

@MrCofet 2 года назад

I see chao, i click chao

@hinata5734 2 года назад

What a perfect game. Take back to ‘02 plz I just want to experience this game for the first time again

@haruhisuzumiya6650 2 года назад

Chao age based on the chao garden gameplay duration, no the chao lobby is a stop watch your chao age when the player goes to a garden, each garden are seperate.

@Zarkator 2 года назад

if youve ever played like an actual fishing game, the fishing in sa1 IS actually pretty high octane

@jadetealaaron2003 2 года назад

For the love of Mobius please bring back the Chao Garden SEGA!!

@TotallyNotTheRedComet69 2 года назад

I don’t see why people are upset with the other stages, the mech stages are perfect for farming chaos drives, yeah they’re slower but you gotta admit, they were great stages to grind drives in. Prison lane helped me out a LOT when I was making my Run Power Neutral Chao, god bless you Chaccy, you were my mvp.

@merna_mahdali 2 года назад

Chao gardern can be a perfect spin off mobile game tbh

@graftongazaway5633 2 года назад

I just realized duck life is kinda like the chao garden.

@1NINJAD 7 месяцев назад

they should just make a chao garden stand alone game

@AHylianWarrior 2 года назад

I can understand the reason why they never brought them back but continue to meme about them: I mean, how do you improve on the perfection that was SA2: Battle's Chao Garden? I spent so many hours working on chaos, they're like one of my favourite side games to come out of all of gaming.

@shieldon530 9 месяцев назад

3:03 rough how poorly any mention of Jirard has aged but honestly I can’t blame u bc I haven’t 100%ed any game ever lol

@dreamareakoso3791 Месяц назад

i feel the Chao Garden was best on GameCube and GBA, cause you can do things across the Tiny Chao Garden and the Chao Gardens from SADX and SA2B to make an even more in depth experience, plus isn’t there a special chao exclusive to the Tiny Chao Garden?

@thrasher698 2 года назад

11:07 this is actually a bit of a misconception. Rings will not directly impact your rank unless you manage to scoop up every one in a stage. Collecting and keeping every ring in a stage will bypass all score requirements and give you an A rank though.

@MrJoeyWheeler 2 года назад

Which is impossible in specific stages such as White Jungle

@Multigameguy35 2 года назад

5:40 nice shirt

@DUKEHadToDoItToEm 2 года назад

The more obvious it is that Sega, or any AAA game studio should revisit an old idea, the more likely it is that it'll never happen Almost 20 years fans have been begging for Chao to come back, it isn't happening.

@BluShiGuy 2 года назад

Chao!

@maugos 2 года назад

I'm glad you pointed out that not everyone likes the chao cause damn do I hate these little buggers. That said, it was fun to learn about how in depth the chao system is. I honestly did not know there were mythical creatures you could find.

@thatguymatt5816 2 года назад

What is that Amy song?? I have to shave it?? Please let me know

@_-Lx-_ 2 года назад

"My Sweet Passion" Amy's theme from Adventure. The lyrics are, suggestive/questionable to say the least, don't know how some parts of it were allowed in kids games (and we also have Rouge in general).

@espurrseyes42 2 года назад

@@_-Lx-_ Also the inconsistent allowance of "damn". The Sonic-Knuckles conversation in Death Chamber had to be cut out because of that, yet the version of Unknown From M.E 2 in the game still has the part that says it.

@BlueStar72 2 года назад

Seriously, ask yourself: Would you want a game to give you a meaningless and shallow XP bar for playing (rewarding you a few cosmetics at best), or an in-depth and complex subgame that gives already cleared content another layer of purpose with unique/targeted progression avenues for re-exploring all parts of the main game? It's not even about the Chao themselves. You could redesign it to be about anything. It's just nice to have something that prevents the game from being yet another thing to binge and throw away, like I'm sure many players of the Sonic series do, and whine when it deviates from just going fast.

@Drazil100 2 года назад

I'd be lying if I told you I didn't install homebrew on my Wii to get my Chao Garden data off my GameCube memory card or that I didn't edit those files with a hex editor to make the data compatible with the steam version of SA2B...

@Nakamako1 5 месяцев назад

i like the knuckles gamemode. but its just way to random and frustrating if you fail

@hexapud5955 2 года назад

About the pantheon of side modes. I see mercenaries modes from re4 is there. But what are the other two?

@AdeptArcanist 7 месяцев назад

I think you're being a little unfair to Pokemon Contests here - while they don't quite have the same flow as Chao Gardens, I'd argue that one of the things that was great about them was how they use your pokemon's combat movesets in a different way and, in ruby and sapphire, exist throughout your journey specifically so that they interplay with the regular combat.

@SaltyBoiJohns Год назад

ChaoMan ChoaMan, defender of good!

@igetthatgoodjugg 2 года назад

I love the sonic adventure titles. A sonic game with just sonic running from point a to b is boring. I love how other characters offer a different gameplay style to break the repetitive running track of speed characters. Chao does exactly as you've described and betters the game and franchise.

@chickennuggetMM 2 года назад

still waiting for a modernized mobile chao garden game

@clark987878 2 года назад

If they added chao garden to the sonic phone games... i would whale on them in a sonic wind and they would have chaos control of my wallet.

@MissMinnichan 2 года назад

7:32 Damn son, where’d you find this?

@enriquepalomarez5921 2 года назад

No one played sonic, for sonic. Imma leave it at that

@donpoco 2 года назад

Yoosh

@CinnaSwirls 2 года назад

I did everything in Sonic Adventure 2 battle except the chao garden. I personally couldn't stand the slow pace, even though I had no trouble tolerating Big's gameplay in Sonic Adventure DX. I kept procrastinating on it, completing the story, getting every A rank, completing the Kart mode, and playing 2 Player with my brother. By the time the Chao Garden was all that remained, I already explored the stages by myself simply because I find it fun. This left me to try and figure out an entire mode where getting the animals and chaos drives involved repetitive gameplay, for I had already done everything in the action stages. Everything. So, does anyone have a cheat code to just unlock Green Hill for free? Maybe a hack? I can try to play the Chao Garden in between the main game on a new playthrough, but I don't expect to enjoy that, either, even if my skills have rusted.

@hadamana 2 года назад

Who else here would be a bit grossed out, but still totally buy a Chao Garden DLC for Animal Crossing?

@lupinthenerd439 2 года назад

I kinda understood the appeal of chao garden, but I'm glad this video's take shows how their implementation can trick you to enhance the replayability. Personally, I never cared for them in both adventure games: they are too detach to the main game and to complex to care about the mode. There are also other Tamagochi-like systems in other games that are more easy to follow and that actually helps you in-game, but that's because they are built different so comparing them is not far. Also I didn't care because the main game was exhausting: sonic/shadow is fun but their stages are too linear, the other styles kill the pace tremendously and they don't belong in a sonic game, and finally the story was just bad fanfiction made canon.

@Wuss2ns 2 года назад

All of SA2 IS GOOD

@chriswonder2747 2 года назад

imagine not cheating to create the perfect chao. these people wanted you to spend actual weeks in a videogame that does notmatch the reward the effort put in

@matthewhanf3033 2 года назад

Chao are fun until you actually want the emblems. Then it's nothing but grinding hell.

@DyxoXinoro 2 года назад

Y'know, every year or so youtube wants me to rewatch Cybershell's chao video. I think I'll watch this one instead this year. I lowkey dread doing the karate cause of that awful sound design, though. Also, I never realized how little I gave a shit about the garden in NiGHTS when I see Chao as the best part of SA2. There are a lot of levels I'd never replay if I didn't have a Chao driven reason to do so. I don't care about emblems, I just wanna watch my babies grow up to become the best water demons they can be.

@SpinDash 2 года назад

Chao are perfect. Sega not bringing them back is a missed opportunity and a real shame. Nice video!

@sonicstyle3690 2 года назад

Check out my channel for new Chao content!

@gorbla1231 2 года назад

I'm still holding out hope for a chao island in the new sonic frontiers game.

@johnross5098 2 года назад

The chao garden was brought back.... in the Minecraft Crossover 💀

@zacziggarot 2 года назад

@@gorbla1231 there's some real potential there. Maybe if they made it a little bit easier to get all the emblems for The chao garden. If the final races instead give different rewards for raising better chao that'd be enough. Chao give you a reason to keep trying on the same stages for better ranks.