Not exactly, Flanky - while the Emperor didn't want to be worshipped in life, this is because the 40k universe is fueled in large part on belief. If a large enough number of soul-bearing beings believe that something will work, it will work. Thus, if enough of the human race believed that the Chaos Gods did not exist, they would become irrelevant and starve to death. (This is also why most of 40k's ships look like churches - the denizens believe it will protect them from demons, so it does. Also the gellar field, but the church shape doesn't hurt matters). Now that he's dead and the Imperial Cult has spread throughout the Imperium, his soul is persisted in no small part through faith. As such, he IS a god now within the Warp - a god of Order, as it happens. This all depends on how you interpret the lore, of course, but it's undeniable that the Imperium's faith has an effect on the world (see Sisters of Battle).
Eh, no. The Emperor is no God. The only thing keeping him alive is the Golden Throne. Even if all humanity was praising him, he is no god nor can become one. As soon as he dies, he will be devoured, like any human soul.
He is pretty much a terminal pacient in life support in reality, but a God inside the warp. Keeping the imperium somewhat face from demon invasions and allowing warp travel.
Recent books are pandering imperial wank that don’t have the ambiguity, nuance and tragedy the setting used to. Rick Priestly back in rogue trader wrote the emperor to be mysterious- that no one knew for sure if he was just a corpse or godlike being etc and took it on faith and superstition
@@matrixtrollmarine Such are the ways of Demons, to lie, corrupt, and ever gnaw at the pillars of faith hoping to drag yet one more soul down with them. Purgation is the only answer.
5:43, "The man who has nothing, can still have faith."-Tarkus God I love that quote from Tarkus. That quote needs to work somewhat in real life somehow. That could really cheer someone up, or move people to tears.
That quote doesn’t work in real life. Can faith feed you when you have no food? Can it shelter you from the rain when you don’t have a house? Faith can do many amazing things. But when you have nothing, faith is more false hope. Especially when it’s in the religion of dictators who will never care for or save you.
General Strawberry They kinda ruined it in the VF by not altering his normal voice. Or, maybe it was done to not reveal the possession matter too soon.
@CaptainPengu Only three gods of the Elder Phaethon survived the fall. Khaine who was later then shattered to several pieces when Slaanesh and Khorne fought over him. The Laughing god who fled to the webway. Isha who disappeared during the event, but was not claimed by the prince of excess. This tale explains her disappearance and also how the mortal races manage to combat the many diseases and plagues Nurgle unleashes on the galaxy.
1) Commander. He's only a captain in the fully pure ending, which can't be the case if anyone besides Martellus was the traitor. 2) Most likely the neutral ending is canon - he went on a crusade of absolution into the eye of terror.
Maybe once the Golden Throne fails and he inevitably becomes a new warp god from all the Imperium's belief. After all, the Sisters are going around spraying manifest evidence of the Emperor's powers, and the Warp's the only source of out and out magic like that in 40K.
@outlawstar15a2 That daemon said he will turn the world into daemon world only greater daemon can do that. If he is truly a greater daemon then nothing can save Jonah from his sad fate. He will be dragged to the depths of the warp and would be tortured and tormented by the foul daemons for all eternity. Such are the way of things in the grim darkness of the 40K galaxy.
This is definitely the most interesting betrayal. Doesn't make a lot of sense though. How did the Daemon hide possessing Jonah? Did it not have full control the whole time? When did he send the messages? Was the demon just pretending to be Jonah? Or did he only take control when he had to send a message? If so, how did he stop Jonah from knowing or telling the others? Especially since he was apparently fighting from the inside? So many questions.
I'll admit that was pretty sad and touching. I didn't think it'd be more awesome after tarkus's betrayal and he always seemed like a pretty boring character to me. When he goes traitor it gives him more depth. I wouldn't doubt jonah would be taken over by a daemon though. Happens all the time in 40k.
@Rocketfist15 By ''labor of love'' of love i mean his most vile and disgusting waste, muck and diseases. She's the perfect test subject for his experiments in creating the ultimate plague. In Nurgle's eyes Isha is the prefect wife beautiful beyond measure and useful thus thoroughly worthy of his toxic love.
@NaelokQ Like I would mind that. It sounds fiendishly fun! Anyways that rotting pile of bones can't protect anyone he's busy being the biggest flashlight in existence (Seriously what's with the imperium and their flashlight fetish). Nothing of his mind remains he's but a husk a broken shell! There is no hope or peace in 40K only the laughter of blood thirsty gods.
Not canon, but the best possible result for the good guys- this is the only way you can complete the campaign with none of your guys actually betraying the chapter, not even Martellus. Jonah goes out like a boss.
TECHNICALLY, Tarkus doesn't betray the chapter. If anything, he is actually doing everything in his power to vanquish the Black Legion, even going as far as using their own weapons against them. For after all, the only power worth betraying your friends for is the power to save them.
Biel-Tan Dire Avenger Exarch Belegan Tarkus Betrayal is not canon either, though. Play Retribution. Canon is Avitus or Thaddeus Betrayal - most likely Avitus.
"I have neglected to inform the Black Legion of your presence." Seems like that blazing Drop Pod falling from orbit is not enough to notice someone is coming, huh Black Legion? Failbaddon´s finest indeed.
It's just poor relic writing Black Legion is pretty much competent yet with thousands years of experiences this whole we didn't noticed drop pod would apply for world eaters or any other chaos batshit insane warband.
Jonah, the man, was no traitor. His body was corrupt, overtaken by a vile daemon, and used to its' own ends. But his soul, that which makes him "him", refused to yield to the Warps' corruption. In the face of eternal damnation, his faith in his brothers and the Emperor did not falter, and at the price of his soul was another triumph over the Ruinous Powers purchased. So say what you will of his possessed body's actions, but do not dare accuse Jonah Orion of heresy.
I accuse him of the highest heresy- heresy against his own humanity, the kind that all imperials commit by denying their true nature and souls to serve the repression and brutality of the imperium in the first place. Heresy against love. Heresy against compassion through the imperial xenophobia. Or did not Christ command us to love our neighbors? The neighbor is not only those on ‘our side’. But most of them don’t have a choice, having been brainwashed since birth or youth, or faced with death if they didn’t convert. Just like the major Abrahamic religions in today’s world, that I’m gonna guess by your profile picture, name, fellating the imperium and self important writing style, you’re quite a fan of. Empire and institutional religion has nothing to do with faith. It’s built and sustained on money, murder, greed, suffering, manipulation, abuse, rape and war and self interest. Faith is not a virtue. Faith is the idealization of your oppressor and the love of your slavery. Faith is giving up your will to hope someone else will save you. Faith is thanking an unseen god for scraps of things the rich men hoard, and thinking it is divinely ordained that you get little and they get much.
No triumph over the ruinous powers was done that day. The ruinous powers are ruinous because the warp reflects thoughts and feelings. The abuse of the imperium creates such trauma and pain and rage in peoples minds and hearts, trillions suffering under a horrific regime, that their reflection in the warp is that of abused minds that want any vengeance they can on their oppressors- the daemons of the warp are malicious because the abusive imperium breeds it.
This is actually the only betrayal that legit has me sad ;_; Jonah may be a Space Marine and a librarian, but in spite of that, he is still just a human, and too much pain, suffering, and loss will eventually make your mind unravel on itself. All the daemon did was taking advantage of a mind pushed well past it's limits in nothing but faithful service in order to possess a body belonging to someone else, pushing a writhing psyche aside that was screaming in agony. To take advantage of those who suffer for your own selfish purposes is the most vile thing one can ever do, and this perfectly embodies the true evil of Chaos.
What the daemon did was malevolent and evil, but the true evil is not chaos. Chaos embodies the unrestrained nature of our souls, a literal reflection of them. Good and bad and all in between. The imperium’s domination and abuse of humanity twists the thoughts and feelings of people into corruptions of what they should be. In an abusive paradigm, it is impossible to be truly healthy in mind and soul, whether you are an abuser or the abused. And empire is abuse. Does not the imperium take advantage of those who suffer for its own selfish ends? Suffering it creates in the first place? It was the imperium that gave Jonah those wounds, that made his life into nothing but slavery, made him from a child forced to fight for his life into a tool for war, just like every space marine. Daemons are created from the abused thoughts and feelings of mortals- when they are malevolent, it is because they are made of malevolence. They are simply going with their nature. But the fascist despots of the imperium consciously continue oppressing people despite the human soul that still have love and compassion screaming out deep inside them... just like Jonah and the daemon. If humanity was naturally imperial, the imperium would not have to threaten, colonize, enslave, brainwash lobotomies etc their way to getting obedience.
No, the Wargear you obtain after you redeem the thing you get? It is a definitive awesome proof of the God Emperor's abilities. It also essentially has a field of 'FUCK YOU DAEMONS' projected.
@@icarushelios3935 they’re definitely pushing that angle more now, the Emperor has revived Guilliman during a fight with Mortarion and also burned a portion of Nurgles garden as a threat. He’s borderline becoming a new warp entity if he won’t be reborn. So he does a lot more than just power the astronomicon
I truly felt sad seeing Jonah die here, he fought so hard with the complete brunt of the hivemind and in the end. Fought the Daemon to allow his own death to his brothers
I agree; Jonah was still pure despite being posessed. I mean Martellus' betrayal is Ok but it has a flaw such as him fixing your terminator armor; what traitor would do that? If they were gonna make Martellus turn on you if no one else is corrupted; you'd think that they could make things a little different in the chaos rising campaign such as maybe Martellus actually lies about not being able to fix the equipment but he really planned to give it to the black legion etc
Martellus betraying you makes no sense at all because he's the *only* reason you find out who the traitor is. They just wanted an option where you don't lose any of your squads if you put all the effort in.
Dark Crusade -> Soulstorm -> DoW II -> DoW II CR He died right? So all that time they *didn't* bother to replace him, or does training to become a Chaplain take that long?
@@MarvinT0606 I think Kyras deliberately held back with assigning Chaplains, and since he is the Chapter Master, he is in the prime position to forestall candidates for chaplaincy. We already know Kyras was corrupted by Chaos a long time ago, and his actions throughout DoW2 hinted that he plans to corrupt the entire chapter in service to the Ruinous Powers. Obviously, since loyalty and faith to the Emperor are qualities for chaplaincy, Kyras sees them as a threat to his plans. Once again, Kyras is the Chapter Master, and has the power to deny the chaplaincy replacement candidates, so as the chaplaincy gets weaker, the rest of the chapter are more susceptible to corruption as a result.
No it could only be Avitus. Tarkus says it was someone he fought along side on Kronus. That leaves only Avitus or Davian Thule, they were the only ones on Kronus. Thaddeus' first crusade was Aurelia.
"Your Emperor is but a corpse on a throne who can't protect anyone!" *Big E casually appearing in the Warp, burning the Gardens of Nurgle, and harming Nurgle himself*: Por Que?
I personally think that the Daemon's statement about killing Jonah Orion is unfortunately true, being that the Emperor IS a corpse on a throne, neither dead or alive. We ain't even sure if he had the power to influence the warp anymore than just as a interstellar lighthouse. And besides, even if he could destroy suns with the snap of his fingers, i doubt even a psychic demigod could protect increasing millions of souls of the faithful after they died in the Warp
Are you expecting a Daemon to tell you the truth? Well heres the real truth, everything in the warp is fuelled by the emotions and belief of all sentient life forms. People believe in the Emperor, millions. The Chaos Gods are powerful thanks to emotion, so how powerful do you think the Emperor is when he has the faith of the billions upon billions who worship him? The Emperor can and does protect souls from the Chaos Gods, just as the Eldar Gods did.
can he technically be a traitor if he's being possessed and not really in control of his own actions, i mean its one thing to betray someone willingly, but what if he isn't technically the "person" doing it?
@503leafy A question. Right now the emperor sits on the throne right? Also, it is said that his spiritual body is fighting inside the warp to fight against the horror in the warp so that Humanity can have a safer warp travel. Is it? If so, then would that mean Jonah can be rescued in the warp?
Considering how the lore is unravelling, that "just a corpse on a throne" description of the emps didn't age too well. This little cretin of a demon lol
Will Jonah's soul be safe? Surely the Daemon can't take it with him since he never willingly consigned it over to Chaos.... Lord have mercy on Jonah.....
+BigDickCheney dude there is something importan i want ask you about it in this warhammer i played it too jonah died but in warhammer i played it too warhammer retrubution i see jonah fight with gebrial angelos how ? note warhammer retrubution is compelet the story of warhammer chaos rising and who is kyras because they have the same looks i search for kyras and he looks like honah i was think he use his body and in wiki they didn't show who is good man kyras before he become a demon i really need help about that
@beastclaw33 definately thaddeus,he struck a deal with Ukair during the last stand mission at the final campiagn mission of DOW2. Ukair promised that he will be grant power beyond imagination and that they needed help to destroy the tyranids. I declare Thaddeus a regenade =/,pity i though the Traitor would be a character but well no offical details of the traitor should be Thaddeus though
Not just for this mission but for all of them how do they all exactly fit into that one drop pod? (specially when you take Thule the Dreadnought with you).
At the very least Jonah Orion died a loyal servant of the God-Emperor to his final breath, that which cannot be said of Isador Akios, Sindri Myr's pawn.
