It still bothers me that they wanted to step away from The Incredible Hulk movie in that they’re ok with bringing back General Ross but not Betty who has often always been Bruce’s love interest y would they not have her visit Bruce in between missions here n there to expand their relationship oh yes let’s just forget about Betty n focus on a false romance with Natasha Romanoff even though many people know this isn’t going to go well given where they came from
That would have been great; maybe it was a vision of being hounded by his father, caked in blood after savagely beating his mother to death, and is coming at him from all sides.
@@grandarkfang_1482 Or even seeing people around him as his father, verbally degrading him as a monster and unneeded, probably with a bottle of beer in his hand.
The Wanda's magic thing could have been the perfect opportunity to canonize Bruce's child abuse from the comics. Obviously, a scene where this is referenced in previous movies or even in this one is needed. Some throwaway lines in both The Incredible Hulk and in The Avengers can be used, along with a more important scene in AOU where Bruce tells about that part of his life to Natasha. The vision could be a very young version of Bruce being chased by his dad, but his mom appears and tries to defend Banner, causing in Bruce's father killing her. Then, Bruce and him look at each other, without saying a word, when out of nowhere, Bruce's dad turns into the Hulk and charges at Bruce, and then the scene cuts out and the one we know starts.
The Incredible Hulk was a soft reboot sequel of The Hulk. So technically, that stuff should still be there. For example, Hulk screaming at the storm was a subtle callback to his fight with Absorbing Man, David Banner. Regardless, Banner/Hulk is written so inconsistently that he's a different character each movie. What is canon for the Hulk changes each movie and is dependent on the current writers. It's frustrating for Hulk fans.
@@BungieStudios it's just so weird that they never got to write him consistently. almost no one liked hawkeye but he was portrayed consistently and with a clear arc throughout the whole saga, but for hulk, who has millions of fans they could not?
It would have been perfect. Why don't she hulk and abomination have alternate personalities? Because the hulk isn't spurred on by gamma radiation, it's because hulk was a split personality who took refuge in banners transformation
@@mcnierstenen9017 A personality that was always inside his mind ever since he was a toddler because of his abusive father, brian banner who also murdered his mother rebecca. When the gamma accident happened the super power that Bruce got essentially manifested as a physical manifestation of that deep, really really deep trauma/ personality that we call the hulk.
It's kinda funny with how fast and loose they played the timeline/story of The Incredible Hulk (2008) at the time with the Ang Lee 2003 movie... Despite the fact that today we know it's a core Phase 1 MCU movie, at the time they were really stressing the "soft reboot" aspect of it, especially with how it starts in South America(?) like the 2003 one did. All of this to say, one *could* stretch their imagination to include at least some aspect of David/Brian Banner from that movie into this Hulk's origin
Been loving your MCU Hulk analysis videos. You really hit the nail on the head of how I feel about his arc in the early days and how AoU began the downward trend.
21:50 by the way Whedon talks about this original scene, i have to assume that Natasha would have been playing a damsel in distress roll and that would have begun the final battle. This would also explain why the scene showing how Hulk and blackwidow got to the floating city had to be reshot. You can imagine the original would have been Hulk chasing Ultron, who was carrying black widow, up to the city.
I just found your channel (thanks She-Hulk, you did something right) and I love how you do your analysis. Seeing all these interviews and behind-the-scenes clips really adds so much context to my understanding of the MCU. I'm about to reward you with a sub and by adding a view to all(most of) your videos. Keep up the good work!
The Bruce/Natasha romance bothered me so much. I saw no chemistry between them. No matter the story, no matter the medium, Betty was Bruce's whole world.
ruffalo & scarjo had no chemistry whatsoever i feel like this ritual lullaby is Whedon's deus ex machina since he couldn't use betty ross in every situation, so they shoehorn a romance between black widow & hulk that came out of nowhere
Oh out of nowhere. Sure. Have you missed Black Widow's story arch? Her whole "I'm a monster" thing (even discussed with Banner in Burton's shack)? Hulk is obviously a monster too, at least in the eyes of the wide public. So there's two monsters, two people with some "dark secret". Isn't that something they think they have in common? And isn't a common thing basically a ground for building a deep friendship, maybe even more? So yea, surely out of nowhere.
@@Croftice1 but it had no build up, no chemistry and came out of nowhere honestly, their relationship was forced, why try to make them a thing only to never be a thing at all? When they meet again for the first time in 2 years they don't say anything much to each other
They could've still made it work if that's the direction they wanted to go. But as you stated it your last, it went nowhere, obviously because it was Whedon idea that everyone grew cold towards went they booted him from these movies.
@@I-need-2-win There was a ton of chemistry between the two in the first movie, idiot. I wasn't surprised at all by their relationship in Age of Ultron 'cause I saw it coming. Stark, Rogers, even Hawkeye....everyone needs and expects her to be a soldier, a killer. That's old news for Widow as well as the Hulk/Betty relationship. Not to mention that it's just too predictable from a dramatic standpoint for her to just hook up with one of her male counterparts. That's boring. Where Banner is concerned, the last thing he needs from her is for her to be a badass. He just needs her to be a woman. He needs her to be a calming influence on him. It's a respite from the constant violence in her life. With him, for once she doesn't feel like a killer. That's a new experience for her. And their relationship is a hell of a lot more interesting as a result then either of the alternatives would have been.
There are circumstances in movies where us Fans don't witness some the behind the sences subjects but SOME US realize a subject was disgusted between characters like the case of Ironman saying to Hulk " that little witch is messing with your mind , Banner!! " Hulk goes "ROAR!!" Ironman says "No no not Puny Banner!! Hulk! Guy 🤨? Shouldn't that tell you this discussion of the Banner/ Hulk personnel was given to Tony Stark/Ironman & the rest of The Avengers 🤨??
Josh Weldon's idea of bringing Edward Norton's Banner/Hulk into The MCU wasn't a 🧠 move from the start!! Both Banners are 2 different individuals on to themselves!! Variance of one another! In Incredible Hulk, Tony Stark/ Ironman advocated The Avengers initiative , but, In the very 1st Avengers, he's against the idea 💡🤨? What brought on the change of 🫀?? Narcissistic attitude?? Yep 👍! Brought on by the Russo Brothers' inability to do proper movie correspondence in-between movie 🍿🎥 scripts!!
@@MegaSpideyman MegaSpideyman Tony Stark appeared at the end of Incredible Hulk saying to General Ross He & others are putting a team together! Spidey? He wasn't referring to The Thunderbolts, he was speaking of The Avengers!! Tony Stark/ Ironman HAS APPEARED in other 📽️ other than Ironman YOU -ARE-AWARE-OF-THAT-REALITY-RIGHT? Folks are catching on to LAZY writing at The MCU,Josh Weldon's idea 💡 of making Norton's Banner & Ruffalo 's Banner 1 & the same was La La Land thinking 🤔 & NOT VERY ENLIGHTEN by The Lease!!
Truth be told the MCU is terrible at handling relationships. Wanda and Vision, offscreen, Steve Rogers and Peggy Carter, during a montage?, Tony and Pepper -- not really sure, but possibly between IM 2 and 3? One begins to feel that the only reason any of these relations are even there at all is because they're in the comics -- well not Black Widow and Bruce Banner, because technically that should have been Hawkeye.
Pepper and Tony were good in iron man 1 2 and 3, Peter and gammora and Bruce and Betty. Those are all the good relationships I can think of off the top of my head
4:41 This part is interesting because it's a common misunderstanding of their journey. Bruce has gained more control over hulk's TRANSFORMATIONS. He's never controlled hulk himself hence his distrust and wariness. Even in the incredible hulk it's stated Bruce INFLUENCES hulk.
Out of all that series' faults, I actually really like the idea of this Abomination years/decades later going, "You know what? Sure, I screwed up, but the Army pumped me full of a bunch of unregulated steroids and super soldier serums, got me addicted to them, and then pinned the blame squarely on me when I lost control." Sure I would have preferred him to have some more time in the spotlight as an actual villain, but I do like the concept of old villains trying to earn penance
True. But it was more about Marvel’s Parent Company Managament! People like ISAAC (IKE) PERLMUTTER! This Dude has a notorious reputation! And it’s dude to him that he caused Joss Whedon to leave, as he recommended the Brothers who did Captain America 2 to Direct the future Films!
I think a lot of Bruce's turmoil and seeming regression here could be explained if there had been some kind of scene showing that the Hulk had lost control during 1 of their missions, or even during the Battle of New York, showing that even though Banner had more control than ever over his transformations, the Hulk was still an unpredictable, nigh uncontrollable force, and whenever Bruce let's him out, no matter how controlled the circumstances, people still got hurt. It would explain a lot of Bruce's reticence early in the film. That, or have the Bruce we see at the beginning of the film be totally different to the one after Sokovia. Would have made more sense this way.
I already knew. And honestly I’m fine with not knowing. But it would’ve been better to tell And not Show. You gotta remember that Abuse is Heavy subject matter. Still, I don’t mind if we get this information later.
11:39 this is a Stupid Argument! Especially when you Think back to What the New Body that Ultron Created eventually becomes! VISION is is the Amalgamation of Jarvis, and a little bit of Ultron’s conscious! The Think is, is that Tony Convinces Banner that Jarvis would and Could Fully Attune to the Form without Giving into any If Ultron’s Murderous intent! Banner is not a Tech expert, but even he knew that Ultron was going to be the Hardest Opponent they’ve ever Had. I Also don’t see Vision as a Weapon! Jarvis becomes a Person! An Semi-Artificial Being that can exist, his minds tone even giving him the ability to feel and emote! Compared to Ultron, who Tony made with the Express Intent on being a Weapon! They needed a Real Win for this fight. Not to mention that has also been a slow-building story theme that has snuck its way into the films. And each film has had this. “CONSEQUENCES” For Each action, for each choice made in the MCU. Terrible events end up taking place! The events of Ultron and Sakovia cause Civil War to happen! The Infinity Stones are exposed, Thor Leaves, The Avengers are forced to Rotate their Roster and then all of them are splintered by Cap’s choice to Rescue Bucky.
I actually stopped watching most Marvel stuff after this movie. I full well know Avengers 3 and 4 are awesome. I just felt like this movie dropped the ball. First of all on how awesome Ultron actually is as a villain. He is much more advanced then they cared to show him. They just basically took a zombie movie plot and put on robot parts. Then secondly how much of a letdown the Hulkbuster scene was. Visually it was great of course. There is logic behind Iron man and Bruce coming up with a way to stop Hulk from rampaging. I was just hoping it was going to be Ultron hacking the units from the government or Shield or whatever agency to create some good political intrigue. Vision just randomly appearing was....something. I guess I'm just spoiled because I read all the comics and know too much about how things should work. The last movie I had fun with was the first Dr. Strange.
We desperately need a Hulk movie in between Avengers 1 and 2. This movie should show Hulk still saving the day but with a lot of collateral damage that the public blames the Hulk to explain why his character changed how it did.
