Chasing the POLICE BIKE! Bikesafe course - Boxhill, Ockley, Dorking 

If you've watched this, you might find this one interesting..what happens when riding in a group doesn't go well. Just fast forward to halfway in. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-IiB284DNLn4.htmlsi=PunlMQdnMDr37f-1

A few years back i did bikesafe with Lincolnshire police, and then the Hopp Rider training at Cadwell again paired up with Lincs Police. Both really helpful to allow you to ride "progressively" which was their code for quickly. I found it's not on the day you improve but weeks after as you build the habits and muscle memory.

An excellent video Gavin, the big thing I note from your commentary is that unlike some of those commenting, you were able to leave your testosterone and bravado at home and go into the course prepared to learn. I was privileged to have been on a 6week standard police driver course, a 6week advanced driver course, a 6 week standard bike course, a 6week advanced bike course, pursuit trading, tepak training, security escort trading and others I can’t mention. The training that resulted in the biggest change to my driving/riding was week one of the very first course. In that week the instructor spent the whole week taking apart everything I thought I knew about driving/riding and left me, well all the student’s, feeling totally flat and demoralised. From that point they set about putting us back together the way they wanted us to drive and now 40yrs later I still drive/ride to “the system”.

Great video mate. Police riders are something else, smooth, consistent speed and their observation is next level. I did one about 7yrs ago and eventually went on to do an IAM course, passed with a f1rst and haven't looked back. The training has saved me quite a few times, just from being able to read the road and predict what other road users intend to do. BikeSafe & IAM easily worth the money and more

So good to hear an honest account from a guy who is in the real world. These courses are superb, did one myself 10 years ago.

Great video, Gavin, you can never overstress the importance of road craft when riding a motorbike. I was given a valuable gem, when I first started riding, and it came from a motorcycle cop in Sydney (Australia). He said, "Never let your bike take you where your brain wasn't three seconds earlier".

I took the IAM. test way back in 1977 the Examiner was quite Scathing about my cornering technique... I did modify my cornering and found it to be worthwhile the Road positioning that the Police Riders use is very safe and practical. thank you for a good and sensible Video.

I did a ROSPA advanced riding course 30yrs ago (gulp!). Was the best thing I ever did, it obviously covered all this stuff, and it dramatically reduced my motorcycling 'moments'. I would strongly recommend advanced training to all bikers. Ride safe.. 😃

I did bikesafe with merseyside police about 10 years ago, their course is 2 days, the 1st exactly what you did but the 2nd was with the guys from rospa and included some bikerdown training, and another assessed ride. I think I learnt more in 2 days than I had in my previous 20 years of riding. I then did my IAM which I can also highly recommend. once you get used to moving left for RH bends and right for LH bends its amazing how much smoother your riding can be

I did it twice in North Yorkshire around 15 years ago, brilliant course, I learned loads

Bikesafe is a good start for sure, I have done some training with Rapid Training with a Police instructor, who just happens to live over the road from me, that was brilliant as a refresher and check. I’ve been riding for 44 years on the road and love it as much today as when I first started.

I bought and learnt Police Roadcraft in 1982. Its def kept me alive once you comply with system. Good position, speed and gear become automatic. Did Ridesafe with South Yorks Police 15 years ago. It was a hoot. Chasing copper on FJ1300. Then he chased us. Fast but safe . Way to go. Well worth a day out. Best attitude is. I learn every day.

Great video. I took my test in December 2012 to avoid the new 125cc rules in Jan 2013. I was 55 when i finally took my test as a goal after 3 serious spine surgery’s. I had always loved bikes and road 250cc whenever i got a chance since i got my provisional license at 17 in 1975. Sadly i knew i would end up in a wheelchair as my condition was progressive. Watching videos is the nearest i get to riding these days. This is much more to my licking than the mental cases looking for death! Thanks for a great video. Ps. If i could afford it id have a sidecar outfit with a rear thumb brake but alas that is way beyond my means. Ride safe and keep it shiny side up.😊👍

This is why I always ride alone apart from with my girlfriend as a pillion, I don't want to follow other bikes and be forced to ride faster than I'm comfortable with aged 60 now ! .. I mainly travel between 50 and 60mph on most roads apart from slower speed limits .. 😊

I did one of those advanced police courses - almost 30 years ago now ! They wrote "smooth professional ride" and "poetry in motion" on my certificate. well chuffed I was ! Exactly as you showed here. Difference was I had to lead all the time. The we had a turn, the examiner would just turn on his indicator.... if I was observing I see and mimic. I passed. I know some that missed a turn, lost the examiner and failed as a result. Great fun all the same.

I just done this course, it was great fun and gives a new perspective on riding. great that you recorded it so you can analyse your ride.

This is my patch around this area, I live in Betchworth. Good to watch

bikesafe is the best course for anyone who rides, they are motorcyclists that are police officers , and all they want is too have better riders

Interesting to see the copper putting his right foot down at junctions. I was taught left foot down right foot on the brake

I enjoyed that and thank you for sharing. These police bikers are brilliant. It’s the little things I learned: less than 10 mph, use the back brake. Use ALL of the road. And I went from an RT to a K1600 and back to the much lighter RT 🌞

I used to ride all around the area back in the early 80,s and was based at RAF HEADLY COURT. Great to watch your trip around the area.

Motorcycle RoadCraft is definitely worth a read… A little dry, but a brilliant book.

Thanks. Great Video. I took the IAM Advanced Course/Test some 5 years ago, after the BikeSafe. Really learned a great deal. The only thing I didn't particularly enjoy was the making good progress all the time. I'm not a slow rider by no means, but sometimes you just want to enjoy the ride more than focussing on the destination. Also, on right hand bends, like you mentioned, I wasn't very keen to get too far over to the left where the road surface is sometimes quite degraded and laden with debris. Of course, over the LHS for a better view. The other was unrestricted lanes (60mph). Always encouraged by my observers to get up to 60mph. Many of these lanes I would normally not go past 45/50 as I consider I wouldn't be able to stop within the distance I see to be clear on my side of the road. After all, 60mph is the max limit.

I was lucky enough to learn with an ex-police outrider and the positioning on corners was one of the most used and at times lifesaving tips he ever gave me (had a car overtaking on a blind bend situation). Had I not been doing this Ii would definitely been brown bread

Nice video Gavin, it makes me think about my road positioning and how much more of the road we can use, i agree about the iron works though!

I personally keep away from the left hand sides of roads due to the amount of pot holes, Road edges that have collapsed and of course slippery drain covers which can also be raised or sunk. Left hand of roads are a no go for me. That’s just my opinion. I’m no expert just going by my experience on the roads around Essex

When in my police service one goes on any driving course one is reminded that we don't have to continually ride to the speed limit all of the time. Indeed it was frowned upon. Under normal patrol duties one kept up with traffic and observed it. Only overtaking other vehicles if it was NEEDED TO DO SO. Ordinary citizens don't have such a NEED to overtake as if they were police officers going to a shout or on a pursuit. . Although as police officers we are taught how to drive/ride faster than the speed limit we do it only when required. ie when there is a NEED to do so and then training helps us stay as safe as is physically possible understanding the increased risks associated with higher speeds. .

yes sometimes I forget that our eyes are better than cameras thanks take care ride safe.

I did this with the Norfolk Police a few years ago well worth it ,it was part of the Biker Down Course

Within the first few minutes you have hit upon a scenario and question that needs some explanation. It would appear that the police officer was using wider positionings especially for bends . This needs some comment. Previously up to Roadcraft 2013 the police manual stated that there were 5 road positionings on our side of the road . More particularly, that position number 1 was close to the verge or kerbside for improved vision whilst taking right hand bends and position number 5 was well over to or on the mid white lines central to the road for increased vision through left handed bends. So prior to 2013 we were taught all of 5 positions. After that date the new Roadcraft only had 3 positions. Position number 1 was now about the inside tyre line for vehicles and position 3 was the offside position for same. The reason for this was that the police obviously considered the older positions of 1 and 5 to be flawed and perhaps dangerous to teach to us plebs, the general public. So there we have it. Unfortunately no one told the police that such a change had been made. It appears that they are still being trained to the older 5 positions and that's ok for their purposes. However we should not be trained so and we now just have the 3 positions. I know that it appeared to be a disparity of riding positions but we do not need to do what the police do in order to gain a visual advantage . We should not be required to place ourselves in a more dangerous position for the speeds that we can ride at.

I took one of these and loved it

(Preface: I'm NOT (yet) a motorcycle rider - at all - I watch videos for education to try and avoid 'other peoples mistakes'). Thank you for your time and effort posting content which is educational for us "wannabes"!! I wouldn't get too fussed about the lines (edge of the road) the copper was taking. I've seen MANY videos which suggest the entry line is far less important than people think, and "trail braking" IN a corner is actually the 'thing TO do'. Exit lines are different (to a car) as well, so is the point of progressive acceleration. In a car, yes - I'd have my right wheels near the edge of the centre line going in to a left hand bend (I'd "straighten" the path as much as possible by being as far left as I could at the apex) - but I'd be reluctant to do this on a bike. Where I live, too many (one is enough!) people can't keep their vehicle on their side of the road in a corner, on a bike I wouldn't want to lose my right leg to oncoming traffic. I wouldn't want to get too close to the left hand edge on a bike either - poor surface / gravel would be a real risk. At least where I live. I'm still studying before I even get on a bike, but the best I can ascertain is the braking profile and geometry of cornering is "different" on a bike to a car. I've never seen any individual who was BOTH a champion racecar driver AND a champion racebike rider - they appear to be different (perhaps mutually exclusive?) skillsets. Thanks for posting the vid!! (edit): I know what you mean about speed / visibility too. I had the privilege of learning to drive (hmm, nearly 40 years ago!) in the Army. It was HAMMERED into us all the way through the training course - visible distance / stopping distance / speed. You MUST be able to stop your vehicle (that's different between a staff car and a truck with an 8 ton load on a wet road at night!) INSIDE the visible distance at all times.

What's with right foot down for Andrew and the copper at the first roundabout? Can someone tell me why that is supposed to be good techniqie?

You say that the police biker really exaggerated his road position; when I did my Bike Safe course, the police rider briefed us beforehand that his road position may not be what we see as ideal but it was purely because he was pitting himself in the best position to see us using the bike controls as well as viewing the road ahead and keeping an eye on the following rider. And that was how the day went, nothing overly exaggerated, just good positioning to take into account all of the above.

Back in the early 70s I took my test in Nuneaton. The tester, on foot, told me to do a circuit around the block and that he would step out with his clipboard to simulate a child running out. Poor sod stepped out in front of the wrong bike and was taken to hospital. Unaware of this I continued on for 15 minutes then went back to the testing centre. His colleague passed me quickly and told me to bugger off.

Interesting video. I went on this course a few years ago and I would recommend it but there are certain things which I didn't agree with. Whilst keeping within the speed limits, our instructor was obsessed with "keeping progress". He rode much too fast for my liking. Whilst I also agree with the comment about using the majority of the road and avoiding the "greasy strip" with regard to a left-hand bend, being near the centre is not something which is conducive with long life because that is when you will meet somebody coming the other way who clips the corner and you would hit them head-on. The other thing that we got told off about was putting both feet down at traffic lights or when stopped. I don't think anybody has yet been injured or killed because they put both feet down when they were at a junction or traffic lights.I may be wrong. Otherwise it was well worth it and I did take away some good points. I'm not new to riding motorcycles having written them now for approaching 55 years.

As a RoSPA Gold rider who has also done Bikesafe, it’s really interesting to listen to this from the perspective of someone with no advanced training. I would mention that they’re showing you what THEY do and not everything they do is something to try to emulate. Taking 'Position 6’ to get the view is a lot easier (and safer!) on a fully liveried ‘Battenberg’ bike than it is on yours and in their training, they do three weeks intensive work an that aspect alone!

I did my bike safe back in 2003 with D&C. I highly recommend doing this if you haven't already. Slow is smooth, smooth is fast.

Hey, many years ago I was keen on doing this, because it also helps your premium when you go to insure your bike. Still not pulled the pin in 2024 though!

Regarding bike positioning a good rule of thumb is to always ride in position you can see most of what’s in front from .. people go in about getting to know a road but if you can read roads you can get a fair way with out actually knowing road , tree lines , hedgerows , gaps in gate ways things like that can all indicate to which way a road will lead ., 👍

Definitely do the advanced training with IAM or Rospa 👍 I did IAM last June and did bike safe this May, and without blowing my own trumpet, the police had to nit pick to find anything for me to improve on. Which goes to show how much advanced training is worth. The police do things slightly different to the advanced groups, in my opinion it’s for the better and has a more real world take on things. Also, time on the bike helps 👍.

I’ve been using the British police style of riding for the last 45 years. It will save your life and make you a fabulous rider. The positioning in the road gives you maximum visibility down the road and encourages you to steer with your eyes.

3:28: i'm not soo sure about being nearer the white line, on left-hand bends. it puts you too near oncoming traffic, imo, which is often cutting a straight line towards you.

Also, copper is near the centre line when there are oncoming cars. What's that about?

I wish I’d done a course like this before I crashed my cbr600 going into a tight bend too quickly which resulted in me losing my left leg. Ironically I’d ordered the Police riders handbook days before and was delivered on the day of my accident! It’s now 12 years on and I’m considering getting a maxi scooter type bike.

Hi Gavin , could I ask please which make and model of video camera you are using to capture this. Stability is very good. Thanks Brendan.

Interesting video. Just attended one of these courses. I came away thinking that IPSGA is a great framework for dealing with hazards in a systematic way but I really do wonder if police bikers make the best teachers. They're trained to ride fast - in a way I normally wouldn't at age 61 - so I was left pondering the tension between the emphasis on safety in the classroom session and the focus on riding like a maniac in the afternoon. There has to be a better way to deliver this.

I did this a few years ago from the Police Social Club near Bromley, south London, the speed they want you to travel at was scary, not a nice experience for me.

Pay attention in the briefing when you're told that their road position is not necessarily an indication of where you should be but to give them a better view of your riding.

I loved completing my IAM and RoSPA - I’m a much safer rider now. But it also helped me with cars too. I went out with the local Ferrari group to Anglesea. My Ferrari is an oldish (1996) LHD manual car. The other guys were all much wealthier with modern Ferraris and they rocked up in Ferrari hat, shirt, sunglasses, trousers, shoes etc. but they (in much faster cars) couldn’t read the road at all. I was looking for overtake opportunities the entire journey

Its called Bikesafe, not Bikefast.

I was like this on my ibt training so nervous , the trainer and other chap were gone .

British motorcycle cops are the best in the world ... 30 years ago i done 10 hrs with them.. ..incredible.... fast , smooth and confident... I was on my gtr1000... Very impressed... these guys rock.....

We all have our own definition what a fast ride is... Your definition is very different to most riders.. this is a very slow pace, if that's where you are comfortable, then you ride at that slow pace.. don't be forced to ride quicker than your ability.

I think anyone who rides fast already uses all of the road before a bend. Its basically the racing line. You also get a better viewing angle round the bend.

Can you put in on your insurance to lower it?

Bare in mind that the Police are doing more then civilians and depending on their particular job they might also do things differently between Policing roles. For example Close Support need to come to a stop (blocking traffic) to have hands free to direct (and reach their gun) so might emphasise certain behaviours differently to a traffic officer. Similarly their lane position on bends might appear to a civ as ‘extreme’ - collecting foliage in panniers… Don’t forget they are hunting for every cm of extra visibility and practice a lot to provide maximum progress and early insight to hazards ahead - thus taking tougher lines makes sense for them - unless you are planning on doing insane speeds on the road then it’s probably advisable to dial back your positioning from 11 down to something more reasonable. However applying police principles (IPSGA and the plethora of other acronyms) will improve your riding. The best advice is to learn about limit points - look up and plan your ride ahead (identify and prioritise hazards), link hazards (thus avoiding unnecessary movements) and think about your safety bubble (space around you and use position to increase your visibility). Best to do a course to follow up on this - there’s a lot to learn even if it is from a bunch of Walter Mittys…

I was taught to ride by a copper he was great fun and super nice.

Marked Police vehicles tend to have an effect on the behaviour of other road users. So the cops are unlikely to get 'honked' at for riding in the middle of the road, unlike us mere mortals. I notice that Ian put his right foot down at the roundabout. That means he must have used his front brake to stop. As a former instructor, I wouldn't reccommend this. Use both brakes to stop and leave the final bit of braking to the rear brake to improve the stability of the bike. However, I know the Police tend to use this technique to speed up gear-changes if required in a pursuit. Nice video, ride safe, love and peace.

I like travelling "briskly".

I noticed when stopped both the police rider & the one in front put their right foot on the ground, where is their brake control. Big no no. Should be correct gear with rear foot brake applied at point of stop & pulling away. Front brake when stopped & pulling away is poor control, because it also is your throttle control hand.

I thought the police officer was using the wrong foot down when stopped? I believe you are supposed to put the gear shifter leg down and keep the other foot on the brake incase you get a rear end.

great video. but my question is this. when you go out on road aren’t you supposed to follow the official and learn how he handles and youses the road if you are to far back and going slower than the police teacher you can’t learn anything I did enjoy your video though thanks.

Hi Gavin, you sound keen to learn, what you learn on the course has to be a bit "painting by numbers" due to the time constraints - you might find my channel interesting, particularly if you want to improve your cornering. I cover it in all of them but 5 is the absolute basics which you need to master to make your progression easier, and 19 covers that worst of all evils, the dreaded blind left hand bend. The first 11 are all on basics, just common sense, practical, stay alive, system and safety at the speed limit. I got chatting to a guy online and mentored him through his IAM Test. This stuff is a little more in depth ( I don't like the word advanced) and several of the rides are filmed from both bikes so you can see it from both riders perspectives - 15 was the first one and the first time that we met up. Very interesting following him and doing full commentary, and the difference between his comments and mine - if you get five minutes have a look, I think you might like them - have fun and stay safe - Dale

I’d love to do this, I wonder do they run this training in Northern Ireland UK

The police biker because he has to see at times what your friend was doing with his head, hands and feet wise, he has to move from one side to the other side of a carriageway in order to get a view of him for his assessment.

Teaching riders to go out to the middle of the road and beyond sometimes to “open up” the corner is I believe dangerous. The benefits it gives a rider at the legal speed limit is not worth the risk of meeting a vehicle or another rider coming the other way doing the same thing. I do a lot of lead and tail riding for a living all over the world and usually the standard of riding is frightening. At the speed this gentleman was going the safest place is the middle of your side of the road. This has the best grip level especially in the wet as the road stone has not been pushed down into the tarmac a billion times by cars and lorries leaving a black shiny surface that has no grip at all in the wet. As commented in the video by the rider drains and all sorts of other debris that close to the gutter are a real problem, quiet often on European road the water escape is not a drain cover it’s a ditch the protrudes out into the road. I have ridden with a few police riders that are on a power trip to show just how good they are and as in this instance were taking someone out of their comfort zone on a public road, which can have an adverse affect rather than positive. The best thing about these courses is the teaching of looking ahead and spotting potential dangers before you get to them so you are at the appropriate speed and mind set to deal with any abnormality. Anything that improves a riders ability is a good thing but you must adapt what you learn to your skill level and at the end of the day realise that if it doesn’t feel right don’t do it.

Can you link your camera you used.

Sounds like you enjoyed it. And I hope it peaked some curiosity and interest in improving your ride - rather than put you off. Ignore the plod going quick, you’ll catch them up the road. He has to demonstrate to the other guy how it’s done, as everyone has different limits. It’s truly satisfying to get on with good progress. You shouldn’t need a plod bike & high-vis just to pass cars - bikes are made for cracking along. Just ignore the cars that give you grief. Annoyingly you can get the wrong plod (typically car) who wouldn’t appreciate you getting a move on, on a regular day, but as long as you keep squeaky clean you’ll be ok. If anything I do hope the police rider didn’t push you hard to go quick. That’s the last thing you want. Learn the bike capabilities first. Your bike would happily keep up with them - when you’re ready.

That was a great vlog, many thanks for posting it, I’ve often thought about reserving a place on the similar scheme they run in Leicestershire. The only issue is that I don’t ride a “big boy” bike. I only ride an MT 03 which is only 321cc. Did you see any smaller bikes when you attended your corse?

I bought the Police Motorcycle book many years ago and found that a goldmine.

I'm more cautious through close trees and hedges because there are deer that can jump out into the road at any point.

In Gloucestershire the roads are so full of potholes that you have spend a good 50% of your awareness trying to avoid them and then hope and pray that you also avoid all the car drivers who drive into oncoming traffic on the wrong side of the road because they're avoiding the ones on _their_ side. I've resigned myself to the fact that I'm very likely to suffer hideous injury or death at the hands of an impatient and inept car driver but, apparently, expecting the local authority to ensure that the roads remain fit for purpose is an 'unreasonable expectation'.

I naturally play my left foot, and I'm definitely signing up for this.

I don't agree with the copper running out to the right on left handers. You are putting yourself right in the path of the idiot cutting the corner coming the other way! The advantages of being a police bike don't apply to the rest of us!

Lot of straight roads/no junctions😮

The police always go the speed of the road so if it’s 60mph they don’t do 45 mph also there bikes are comfortable and good for acceleration not saying we should have a bike that we like to ride

I guess there's no point in a tail tidy when your plates are the size of a cars hood. 😂

Will this course bring insurance quotes down.. not really worth it if it dont

That ride should have been briefed properly. Cop should have seen slow bike behind and slowed accordingly. Bloke in front should be keeping tabs on copper and slow accordingly.

Its interesting that part of the course covers group riding and riding your own ride. Ofd they shoot off like that when you’ve paid them to observe you. I’d ask for a refund.

Drive fast, hard and on 1 wheel.

you only have to remember one thing when riding a motorbike, everyone else is a moron.....trust no one especially car drivers.

Its there ego that lets them ride like that , i had three police cars speed training , all three overtaking with on coming cars , i had to emergency brake theyd stopped at the services for a break and i asked them if they wanted to see the footage from my dashcam and they got shitty then silent , if i hadn’t got my elderly mother with me id proberbly would of got a whole lot more of there ego’s .

to be honest with all the things you say you didn't know, I do not believe you should be riding a bike, it frightens me that someone who has had a license for 25 years never learnt to ride properly

Bike safe was good 20 years ago. I was told - ride like real life, don’t worry about the speed limit. I’ve a GSA and those police bike were not ‘shifting’

And yeah you do them courses ,and the law when they catch you doing something wrong the law chucks the book at you!!!

K1200 who makes them?

Round where I live, S Wales valleys, there are hoards of illegal off road bikes zooming round with total impunity. Cops do nothing. Yeah so carry on bobbies, carry on ignoring them whilst targetting legal riders comitting trivial offences cuz it's so easy.

waynegoldpig2220, police rides are better riders because if you spend 8 / 10 hours a day doing it you either get very good or very dead. Simples😕

Hate Coppers in general, but have massive respect for Bike coppers, different breed from the rainbow wearing brigade who pose a danger to our society.

You should think about IAM Advanced Motorcycle Course

Good informative vid 👍

Use 2 be free!

Firstly knowing all the recent laughable speed limit reductions on these roads what's the speed thing about.Youll rarely be able to go above 40 mph, or at best 50 mph on Mickleham by pass, legally. The advice keep to the right through left hand bends is suicidal.There will be a typical wannabe Ayrton Senna taking a racing line through it in the opposite direction at some point. I can remember the police 'advanced' driver basic system which is basically a great method of cooking the brakes because they don't know how, or when, to downshift through the gears correctly for maximum engine braking on the approach. So driving around the 40 mph speed limits of Surrey is about their reference point. As opposed to across Europe and what remains of the unlimited autobahn sections.

9:33: loss of brownie points re: the pedestrians imo

Noth wrong with slowing down for bends...especially left bends where you view is not as great. I know 2 I.A.M. guys who have sat the course.....TBH.....I am not impressed with the stds.

2 b a good motor cyclist u 1st have to be a good cyclist.

It's a myth that coppers are better riders. They're just more confident on the roads because they haven't got to look out for speed cameras.

I would argue the textbook approach to road positioning isn’t always the best for todays roads. Same with always focussing on the vanishing point. Yes when roads are empty and in good condition. But by pulsing focus point you pick up on raised drain covers and pot holes. Having watched a police rider become unsettled as he rode straight through an elongated pothole on the outside of a left hand bend I raised it with him. He claimed it didn’t impact him at all which I disagree with. I was left feeling their approach is about 20 years out of date to the current world we ride in.