When it breaks a piston or rod from the Big Bang I want to see aftermarket rods and pistons turned up until the factory sleeve fails on a k24(87mm) and k20(86mm), I feel like this would answer a lot of questions in the Honda world
Bro just an NA K24 swap with Bolt on would make that miata insane.. I mean with full bolt ons a K24a can make upwards of 240whp stock. On a chassis as light as a Miata, thats a lot of power. And you have NA reliability.
For the same amount of money that would take you to make 250whp on the stock engine you can swap it for a k24 and have a much better engine for the future
Modern engines in general are all performing very well; but I think the standouts are for sure Honda’s K series, GMs LS and now LT platform, and the Ford Coyote/Voodoo platform. The power potential in relatively stock trim for all these engines is truly amazing.
If you want to talk about innovation, look at koniseggs inline 3 cyl 1liter twin turbo engine that produces 600hp. I'll be the first to admit at this point it's not attainable at all to the average guy, but it's badass nonetheless! PS, I still like ls engines.
Richard. I noticed in this video you stated what timing you had in it. Could you start to maybe mention your timing number with the LS stuff? I think it would help some of us kind of know a ball park so we don’t scatter stuff.
@@cumbob I drove a Lotus 7 replica that had a 2.4 with mild(ish) cams and a 68mm Borg turbo that was supposed to make 400whp. It was enough to make that 1,600lb car almost uncontrollable at WOT.
Pause at 19:40 and study the torque curves. The 62mm turbo has more torque than all the big ones from 3500 to 6000 rpm, then is about the same up to 7700. At 4500 rpm, it's making 90 lb*ft more than the biggest turbo. Mid-range torque is what wins races. If you're going for a Bonneville speed record, and peak power is all that matters, go for a big turbo.
The mid range works best on the road course. When I raced motorcycles, My bike had great mid range. You have 12 turns,and 2 straights. I can pull a tenth of a second on each turn vrs only 2 straights.
@@mcfero1 Nonsense. Dynamic forces at 4500 rpm offset pressure forces to the point that rod compression is almost zero. 15 psi boost is not enough to stack the rods at any speed, even at 1500 rpm.
I'd imagine there are situations where the softer bottom end would help traction. and running them down on the top. But torque at the shift recovery point is important.
This is one of the best turbo comparisons I've seen. Oh I've been a mechanic for 35 years and owned my own dyno tuning business for 16 year, So I have a turbo sitting around that was on my Supra and it made 550kw at the wheels, so i'm going to try it on my Honda K24a1 just for a laugh, will be taking the K24a2 head off my sons car if I can't find a K24A2 second hand engine, We don't have E85 at the pump anymore in N.Z. so thinking of WaterMeth setup. I want to keep the K24A1 bottom end to keep the compression down 9.6:1
I love the mid-frame (50trim/.63 or .48) for street daily and occasional fun time. (for my 2.5 baby Mopar) You get tons of tq early, but it is of course... a trade-off for top end charge via backpressure and untouched cylinder head. Love the content as usual!
This is exactly why I want to go 300WHP NA before boost. Lots of the other guys were talking about oh, high compression turbo is bad. Well, this seems to be within spec.
It doesn't matter what engine you have, boost makes everything. Lol. Judson, always said, your stupid if you got one and stupid if you dont..ive done a few off the wall combos and made good power with crap that nobody thought would.
@@snakeballs8965 really good for a 2.4 liter... that’s like making 700 hp on a NA 5.7 LT1 or 625 hp on a coyote... all on stock bottom end and no boost. Honda makes great motors. The S2000 had the highest HP per liter (123.5) of displacement of any production car till it was beaten by the Ferrari 458 (124.5) in factory trim
Im running the g25-550.. Best turbo for the street by FAR.. Capable of high HP for its size, but has amazing response and low-end.. I am tuned on boost by gear, but I make peak boost around 4K which is awesome for the street. And with the k24, stock, it only revs to about 76-7800 anyway with power falling off around there anyway. I make 390whp and 340tq which I think is a phenomenal number for the street. And its more than enough.. I couldnt turn it up much even if I wanted to as I would just spin. Im working on my suspension and tire/rim now to make it as perfect as possible.. I am running Hondata Traction control as well. Not perfect but a nice addition to have as 1st and 2nd would be useless without it. I am also running PPG 1-2-3 and a gearX 4th with Syncrotech carbon package. Trans is holding up really well. Its INCREDIBLY loud though. And I purposely went with a softer mount with Hasports 62a but the drivetrain is still super loud. A bit annoying for a street daily as I want the car to be.. And yeah the HArdrace full bushing set likely doesnt help, but the car just feels so stable and planted. Gotta make comfort and luxury sacrifices for performance.
I'm so glad you don't discriminate engines. There is value in knowledge regardless of platform. I am looking forward to the ultimate power output with stock parts modified. Having the "soft spool" has been very helpful; for me with my RWD 4g63 car on no prep racing. Thanks for the time and energy
Not into four cylinders... However, although the result turned out just exactly like I thought it would, I still enjoyed watching the turbo comparisons. And it is somewhat amazing just how efficient those little engines are.
Honda should have, and still should, produce two V8 engines. 1st with a N/A engine, and an optional 2nd V8 Turbo engine that has exhaust manifold built into the heads, for massive torque, with variable twin-turbos or compound turbo setup. Put the N/A V8 into a TRUCK frame, for under $30,000. Then an option for an off-road/rally TRUCK, with the twin turbo, for under $40,000. Take some losses but it would sell like hot-cakes. Build them in USA!
Honda cant do that because it would make every other car company go out of business. A turbo awd v8 civic would destroy anything and everything on the street and track. It would literally be the greatest engine ever produced and there would be no point in buying anything other than a v8 honda engine.
The stuff at about 18 minutes in to the end is exactly what I like to see. Not all of us want 800- 1000 hp. at the top. Id much rather have 1 or 200 ft.lbs of torque where I drive the car. Even if it mandated forged rods and pistons, to live.
The real question is with the smaller turbo running between 7 to 10 psi will the motor with rods and pistons and headstuds would it run good numbers and not blow up with a 93 octane tune instead of me having to run e85 because its hard to come by around here the closest thing to my house is 100 octane race fuel and its like $17 to $20 a gallon on a good day
Seeing how much power the K24 can make NA is about what i was looking at getting with a turbo just because i got the A4 and finding cams for that thing sucks, makes good torque tbh, around 270hp with 10 psi, should boogie like a booger
I have a prevailing question: how much does the foreign(Honda/Toyota) engine builds cost $/hp vs American engine builds? Without making compensation to number of cylinders- because it’s a choice to run 4 or 8 cylinders most times. Cause I hate every Honda runner complaining they lost cause they only got 4 cylinders...run wat ya bring! Tears don’t count. I don’t cry when some crazy boosted Honda roasts my ass like corn on da cob. But most the time, I’m only at like half the money in my car build as them, and if I just add a couple bucks more, they become fair game for a run. Thanks & Cheers!
Gt45 for the win lol! Under 750 ish hp that $163 sure seems like the ticket, especially on small cube LS motor. It handily out spooled the VS 7875 which we know is a great turbo for 800 plus hp.
I was hoping to see a boost pressure map. When did the turbo get to the commanded boost pressure? At what rpm? Your explanation was very interesting. I liked to see rpm vs hp graphed. I hope next time you can do rpm vs boost graph!
A super comparison! Thank you for doing it. I feel one thing you’ve confirmed is that the GT-45 (or any similarly sized turbo) is almost like a ‘no worries, just do it!’ size turbo for so many combos. It seems to work somewhere between excellently and ok on anything you’ve tried it on. I was really happy with mine on a 6.2 litre LS swapped Foxbody... Cheers!
Also from what I have learned a bigger turbo is better on V8 because back pressure can become an issue if you’re running a single turbo to compensate . a smaller Cam can give you torque sooner in the rpm while the turbo is for up top and no back pressure issues
Great information! Can you show the affects of too big of a cam on a turbo engine? Essentially the difference between turbo cams and N/A cams on a boosted application.
How about an LFX gm V6 test?I'm sure the junkyards are full of them and they are becoming a popular swap because of how relatively compact they are with manifolds in the heads.Maybe a little boost and see what they are capable of doing and maybe finding some limitations
🤞it can beat the 6.0 big bang HP number. Fantasy? Probably. Would it be cool? Of course yes! Yes, yes, yes! More boost!!!!!!!!! The suspense is killing me. I hope it will last.
Has he done a video about ideal turbo for k24? Say I wanted 450-500hp or maybe 600hp on pump gas for street droving and Hiroshima 800-1200hp on e85 is that possible? What woukd be the best for steady power but also make the most peak? I have a 3582r and I make boost around 3500 and on pump gas and only about 10psi the tires spin in second but I feel it could use a little more in 4th and 5th. Do I just need to set up boost by gear or maybe woukd a differemt turbo be ideal? It's in a mr2 spyder
I dig that ur doing everything out there. I would b down with some more csb stuff like this since ls motors have doubled in price and r still a little complex with swap. Well more costly then complex. I'd like to learn more boost with carb. Especially E85 Configurations
Lag disappears, with a small nitrous shot. Turbos love nitrous. It increases the volume of the exhaust gasses, as well as dropping the IAT's dramatically. Both of which is advantageous, when used on a turbocharged engine. Usually a small 50hp nitrous jet will add 50-70whp and 100wtq-150wtq. I have seen HUGE torque increases when nitrous is added to laggy turbo setups. This is because the nitrous turns a laggy setup, into a super responsive setup. Making a turbo spool 2k-3krpms earlier makes the torque output skyrocket. I had a stock shortblock sr20det gain over 300wtq after adding a 140hp shot. It also gained about 175whp. Made over 500whp and 500wtq on 93oct fuel, all on a stock shortblock with over 100k miles on her.
Might be a very stupid question but can you/I run salt ice water in the intercooler? How fast would it start to cause problems if any? We learned when we were young that salt water will get way colder than plain water, it's how we got ice cold beer very quickly.
If the dyno can do a 5000 rpm run i.e. 3000-8000 rpm, can you start to show v8 engines at 2000 rpm and up? Off the line power is important for heavier vehicles.
Really awesome info. Great for all the people out there who learn visually and want comparisons. Shame you have to qualify so many statements, but it's important for people to learn, or sometimes unlearn what they have heard on the internet.
So much good info! The torque curves really show an interesting story about sizing the turbo. Having back pressure numbers would be interesting, too but torque is what moves the vehicle in any particular gear. This begs the question from the BBC with twin GT45s, how quickly did the torque come on compared to a single S475 or S480? The back pressure on that test, the twins, was extremely low-did that kill the mid-range torque? With almost 500 cu in, did it matter? So many questions, so little dyno time... Thanks so much Richard!
Might as well be honest with yourselves, and build things to handle all the boost to start with. Then you're ready for when you decide to run all the boost.
I hope you make 1000 with this. I just don't think the stock sleeves will hold. Will be tuned in though! Id like to be proved wrong tbh and see it happen
Rich Were do you think a G25-550.72ar would sit with this set up? It would be on the down hill side of the map. My curiosity is in how much sooner it would come on(ref screen shot 19:24 "5250 transition ")? I understand that wound be counter productive for the purposes of this test.
Please test one of those new electric turbos. I have seen some about them but it was putting out 8psi of boost for less than half the price for a turbo set up.
Those are for tiny engines. Wait for garretts 48 volt e turbo to come out. It's a normal turbo with electric aid to eliminate lag. www.garrettmotion.com/news/media/press-release/garrett-to-launch-industrys-first-electric-turbo/ Basically what they do in f1
I have a Chenweth dunebuggy that I want to repower and I'm thinking either K24 or J32/J35. I'm not looking for a 600hp screamer more along the lines of 300-400hp with plenty of torque. I could modify the frame and mount the engine up front and run 4wd or could put it in the back and run 2wd. It's a future project something I'll be working on next year or the year after so no rush but would love to get some feedback and what you all think? I kind of like the idea of mounting the engine of up front and pulling the drive line from a 4wd Honda Pilot. Need some help on what all I need to make the engine run as far as computer control. I know older engines alright but haven't had a lot of experience when it comes to modern engines. So any assistance would be greatly appreciated.
Watching your channel inspired me to buy 2 3RZ motors. I have spent a week or so trying to wrap my brain around turbos and which one I need but my head is just mush. This motor is going to be a swap in my 1987 Toyota pickup which lacks power with its 22r. Any advice on turbo size for my 2.7L 4 cylinder 3RZ. Thanks
wondering if there are one of these that puts out around 16lbs for a "Polaris RZR Turbo S" side by side, as the big turbos for this machine are 1500 $ +
@Robert Bandy I'm trying to understand the real world power losses from the lower octane rating of 93 gasoline; i.e., 20%? 30%? 50%? I'm looking at 500 bhp on these dyno runs... would these numbers be 300bhp? 350bhp? just trying to understand from the experts. thanks.
Also to add to this bigger turbo makes more power at lower boost such as 10 lbs on a small turbo may be 5 lbs on a big turbo which can have better charge temps I have also seen turbos with a .63 hot 78 cold that make 5lbs fast but get lazy at more boost over a .63 70 closer to equal wheels
Hey Richard great video as always great information fun to watch. I would love to maybe see u do a 3.6 LGX turbo twin turbo build how much boost cam it take. Maybe how much none aspirated power any bolt ons to improve power. Just a idea maybe for the future even a LFX 3.6 be cool idk keep up the great work always enjoy ur videos. Thanks Josh Gessinger
It’s funny that so many people think putting a bigger turbo is always the answer to making more power, when in reality upgrading the cams and intake manifold is going to give you the top end power people are looking for. And usually on less boost
