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I am not one to post sentimental comments but this podcast is an escape for me, like for many others. Tough days, glooming uncertainty or fear of the future, once an episode of brochat drops , I feel happy. Never would I have thought that I'd be waiting for an entire week to hear a couple of bros talk and have a good time, and to feel as if I'm a part of their conversation, even though we've never met.
I met Fouad at AMF Nate’s gym about a year back and he’s the most down to earth guy you’ll ever meet. This podcast has helped me through my brother passing and I made sure to let him know that. Thanks again Fouad for making these podcasts and helping others get through this wild life.
I remember meeting you and it was very sobering to hear your story. Thank you for sharing your story with me, again I'm glad we could do something to shed some light in a tough time.
I swear this app needs a heart button. I love hearing stories like this. For me this podcast has gotten me through the death of my mother, various marriage issues and alcoholism. It picks me up and keeps me moving. So sorry for the loss of your brother.
Training debates are always my favorite and I do respect Fouad for always standing on his opinion no matter who agrees or who's on, but it's ironic that when Mike Isratel was on, Mike VW wasn't saying anything because he said "he agreed with everything he was saying" but is now saying "he's not the word on training" lol
mike vw just is a miserable guy and just likes to complain about people that are smaller than him, unless your as jacked as a ifbb pro open bodybuilder then hhe wont give you thhe time of day
Right. Mike isr actually knows what he’s talking about. Full ROM IS optimal. I still dont understand how mike vw is still on this podcast. He barely talks and when he talks its just negativity and sounds he hates life
53 min in and you and Iain still going at it! lol this is the best. I love every minute of it. Laughing my ass off at work and my co workers think I’m crazy.
I do not agree with Fouad here and I'm totally all in on Mike Istraetel's expert opinion, but I must say that Fouad is the only guy that actually tries to challenge Mike Istraetel when he's on the podcast. Iain, I feel like, is more on his side so probably doesn't need to disagree. But is Mike VW actually has that strong of an opinion on this, why doesn't he open his mouth when Israetel is on? Cudos to Fouad here!
I find it a little funny that Mike W. literally has said "I love everything hes saying" to Israetel when he's on the podcast, and really stays quiet most of the time when he's on and just agrees with everything...but when the guy's not on the show thats when he expresses disagreement. lol
MVW seems to have developed some issue with MI, basically taking shots at him directly and calling him small etc. For his big tough guy act he was quiet as a mouse and agreed with everything when MI was on
Fouad is right, when Dr mike was on the Pod nobody including mike who had already done videos on it's range of tension and not range of motion, he said nothing when Dr mike was on...
They always ride Dr Mike, I don't understand. The guy over intellectualizes everything, talks like he knows everything while eating crap like protein puffs and making gay jokes. It's cringy
I like both Mikes! But Isy…he is really really smart but he over complicates shit. Notice how he is still going for his pro card when all these other meatheads have been there and done that. Yea yea it’s genetics I’m sure…while he eats his cheese puffs and trains half hearted with his strict ROM…you be the judge
Any intensifiers that cause you to continue to do repetitions, such as droplets, bottom end partials or assisted reps, are reps that go beyond failure, which is one of the primary drivers of muscle growth. So intensity can and does affect muscle growth. The more time you spend in a state of failure the more growth you’ll get. Just be aware of the trade off that is the fatigue that comes from going all the way to or past failure.
Umm yeah... I don't agree with the last part In the least... if that was true everyone would stay in that state of failure bc that would just grow muscle faster.... it doesn't work like that... u wouldn't be able to recover, it's not optimal, and u might even lose muscle...
Ian training theories are spot on .. he knows that for a muscle to grow you have to increase intensity in the way he says with good form and full range of motions . The others are so very wrong. Listen to Ian when ever training is in discussion trust me he knows his stiff
It seems contradictory for Mike V to claim "there are no studies on these exercises" (suggesting that exercise selection should be grounded in science and statistics) and then discredit Mike Israetel’s training philosophies by comparing Fouads legs to his (Fouads legs > Mike’s legs therefore Fouad training>). This illustrates a common problem in fitness discussions: comparing individual cases (n = 1) as if they represent universal truths. Similarly, Mike V critiques Jeff Nippard's evaluation of Sam Sulek's training on instagram, dismissing Nippard's philosophies solely because Sulek is bigger and disregarding the impact of genetics and more blatantly the fact that Nippard is natural. To establish that one exercise is significantly better than another, there must be data supporting this within well-defined critical regions of a normal distribution with a large enough sample size to extrapolate for the population. Without it you can only theorize a mechanism and turning sideways to get a better stretch stands on solid grounds as a potential benefit.
Ok understood. But if ALL bodybuilders since the beginning of time are doing something one way, and they are all getting amazing results, why would we listen to the ones not getting the results? I’m not saying that’s what’s happening to that extreme but to some degree it is.
@@FouadAbiadI feel like genetics took a massive back seat in this discussion too. Like in the Mike I’s legs vs. Fouad’s legs comparison, is it not possible that Fouad just has genetically better leg shape/growth? It could even just be that Fouad genetically had better potential for bodybuilding in general than Mike I does, and really doesn’t have as much to do with training technique at all.
Guys please look into sarcoplasmic vs myofibrilar hypertrophy. Also read about high threshold motor units. This will explain a lot of what you're debating.
After half hour into the arguement I left to take a shit, sat there on my phone till my feet went numb and when I came back these dudes were still arguing
Nah there's a place for both.. but it def gets over analyzed and ppl over do tf outta it... its best to do both. But intensity and progression imo are the 2 most important parts in lifting
@30:00 I believe Dr. Mike doesn’t like partials and drop sets because you can’t accurately track them. He’s very very big in progression and recovery (understandably), and with partials or drop sets it’s hard to consistently determine how much benefit you gained from those partials compared to the extra fatigue you’ve accrued. Personally I think drop sets and partials can definitely elicit a good muscle building response in the body just from the added intensity/stress that they bring. As long as they’re not overused or making you too fatigued, I don’t see an issue with them
As a Finnish man, so the summer/grill season is quite short. Corn on the cob and stuffed mushrooms wrapped in bacon is a must! Corn 4.5/5 and the mushrooms 6/5. I could live our summer with those mushrooms.
@@toniburdine1393 ok dont hate, because alot of people dont like it, butbthen again alotnof people lpve it too but usually bluecheese, they be bussin like a mf(or whatever the kids say)..I guess it could be other cheese too Edit. I wasnt sure what the mushrooms are in English what we use but im pretty sure theyre portobello mushrooms, u just snap the root/stock whatever it is in english off and u have this perfect hole/dent whatever to put the stuffin in it, then just two pieces of bacon one wrapped one way and the other like u make a cross with them, and cook till the bacons done
Lmao I love the “debates/arguments”.. it reminds me of hanging out with the boys more before cell phones and internet lol.. we would just argue about shit we were probably all wrong on.. who had more HR this season? Who won XYZ, who is more credible, etc etc.. and you’d just sit there and convo/argue/laugh/etc.. now so easy to just pull out a phone and say it’s “this”.. though it’s getting harder and harder to believe anything you search for these days, so we might be going back to these arguments lol
Correct me if I'm wrong but 21s are essentially ensuring you don't allow momentum to ruin the top half, and you don't allow the bottom half resting periods. Then when you're onto the last 7, your biceps are adequately pre-exhausted. It's a pre-exhaust technique, no?
@@FouadAbiadhe caveated that bottom end partials have their place as well as people with injury history (a necessity, as opposed to a general preference)
@@FouadAbiad Fair enough. I just remember the topic being brought up on one of the podcasts he was on, and he pretty much said what Iain has said...partials can be used but they shouldnt be what you do from the very start of the set. As a finisher or something along those lines its fair game.
32:28 one thing that nobody really mentions when it comes to training is that there is a time factor involved. A 5 hour training session would not be as intense as a 1 hour training session, which means that the amount of effort exerted across a shorter period of time makes a difference. In the same way that if you can push a set even into partials, you are exerting more effort (even if only partial) across a shorter period of time as a pose to stopping and doing another set. In my opinion anyways 🤷🏻♂️
This!!!! I feel like fouad is mis-remembering what Mike Israetel said-while science can tell you what’s optimal on paper-real life has time constraints and injury history- 2 big reasons why training needs to be altered. so yeah straight sets of full range is best on paper if you had infinite time to workout, but if you had shorter time constraints-doing intensity techniques would allow you to accomplish something that you could not do with a full set (which would usually require more rest time). Imagine the gym closes in 2 mins, you can only do 1 straight set but you could add on partials, forced reps, a drop set or rest pause. Also if you’re injured they can be a way to get intensity without too much additional risk with just increased load
@@RERELOLUWAAYENI loving the gym shutting scenario as an example 👌👏 you either do an extended set or one normal set because you cant get the second set in before the gym shuts
@@Chuy4707 exactly. Can’t give good points that don’t support the current Mr. Olympia lol Probably got a little more serious than their normal “arguments”
Doing the half reps in 21s gives u a better mind muscle connection. Being able to focus on the stops and starts in the movement mid range gives u a better understanding of the isolation
Been watching for 6-7 years now and the amount of actual bodybuilding/workout info thats being explained has increased drastically in these last 2 years. Wish these types of episodes were around when I was still in high school but glad the new gen can intake all of this
Ur better off not knowing the info.... its simple, and not complicated.. intensity and progression are the 2 main things, while using good form... its lit that simple
That's one thing that I like about this podcast, the guys have different opinions, they debate, they're staying respectful and move on after. Today in this industry it seems like if you disagree with someone, they're directly attacking you personnaly...
It doesn't matter whether you take a second between each rep or you do each rep without losing tension. The first method, you will do more reps to achieve the same Time Under Tension while the latter method will fatigue quicker. If each is performed to failure they each will have equal influence on hypertrophy.
Everything Iain said EVERYTHING about training is backed my science. Yes straight sets are superior and yes Mechanical tension is the driver for hypertrophy. Guess what drop sets cause fatigue (alot of fatigue) and guess what the enemy of performance is? Fatigue. Also guess what is most important thing is when training? Performance. You can get a pump curling 20s for 40 reps and your arms aren't gonna grow. Putting your muscle under proper loading within the proper range of motion and training til failure is what causes growth, also known as mechanical tension. Everything that causes growth will just come back to mechanical tension EVERY SINGLE TIME. You can't just pump your muscles to 300lbs.
Again you’ve taken the wrong thing from the discussion. First off there are three parts to hypertrophy mechanical tension, muscle damage and metabolic stress. Secondly no one said to pump your way to growth but the pump matters in ranges of hypertrophy which are 5-30 reps (backed by science). Iain is right that full rom and straight sets are the base but they are not all encompassing of hypertrophy.
@@FouadAbiad Muscle damage and metabolic stress are not the drivers of muscle growth, those are things you want to avoid. Those 2 things impede recovery drastically which is something you obviously what to optimize as a bodybuilder. Also I don't mean actually pump your way to growth, but I was just making a sarcastic remark, I was just trying to say it's not the pump that's building muscle, or even contributing. I see the pump as tool to see you're hydrated and properly fueled for your workout, and an indicator that you're hitting the targeted muscle, but not what is actually causing the muscle to grow.
Prime equipment makes equipment to create tension in different ranges in a motion. Same as doing 21’s. Targeting a stronger part in the motion and pre exhausting, then switching to a full ROM seems more beneficial to me. Maybe it’s nothing scientific and more so mentally intensifying but sometimes that’s what you need. 🤷♂️
I’m still gona run the rack for lateral raises and dumbell curls , still gona do my drop sets, and rest pause and partials doing them all is what I like 👊( probably not all in same workout though)
For the hypertrophy argument… I believe the most important factor is time under tension. If you do 145 on the leg press for 2 minutes of full ROM, I don’t believe it would automatically create more stress aka tension to the muscle than 145 half reps for 30 sec full ROM then 30 sec partials. I think the stress you put on the muscle is the most important factor and depending on your understanding of training and creating tension determines which approach would be the most beneficial. I think the best way to implement 21s to an audience is to say it’s a more advanced movement for people who can manipulate the tension to a muscle at a high level and safely.
Every 6-8 weeks we get on a “best way to train” rant and at the end of the day it all works. If you train hard every time and eat to fuel your workout you will make progress
If you like garlic, then garlic salt on freshly grilled corn on the cob is bomb. If you can find smoked salt that's pretty good too. But if you don't like either of those then yeah, "fleur de sel" is what Seth's fancy salt is called
Hearing Mike talk about rear delt machine, see Seth emphatically nodding his head in my peripheral....nope, he's just going to town on that corn on the cob LMAO
Intensifiers are useful for coaching and add a psychological benefit that can carry over to a greater output than straight sets. It's not always physiological.
Mike "We're having an argument right now based on what something that he deems is right" I 100% agree with Mike, I understand the context that when did Isreatel ever become the word of Hypertrophy training.
I loved the discussion about training, load and tension. Personally, i start to throw partials in when the muscle is feeling fatigued and im struggling to get full range of motion. I know it's kind of cheating but on those days, i feel like the partials help to drive extra blood into the muscle even though I'm not completing a full rep. No science/literature around this at all. Just purely how it feels
I like the way Mike explains training. Makes so much sense. When I was a beginner I did all the basics and loved it. Made awesome gains and by the time I gained 30lbs I was a master of my own body. I could feel the muscle so easy and pump any muscle I wanted so easy. Compared to being a beginner where when you train it's hard to get a pump, your joints aren't as strong, your stamina is shit... etc etc. I lost 20lbs of muscle by becoming a lazy shit again and stopped eating 5-6 meals a day but I'm still lean asf cause I chose to eat healthy and stay away from sugars and bs processed foods. I've become a beginner again but muscle memory is so real !! I'm going from Bitch to Beast again haha👍
I think with the intensifiers - some people just don't have the mental drive to push themselves through as many full sets / reps to failure as compared to a drop set or similar. Some people would tap out at 6 reps instead of the 10 they had hoped for ... whereas if they did their 6 and then dropset, they end up with more muscle breakdown / hypertrophy drivers than they otherwise would have.
Hypertrophy in 3 points 1. Progression of mechanical tension is likely numero uno as Iain implied (that is not exposure to tension as a measure of time like "time under tension"... but actual progression of tension itself. Which means load but load specific to the biomechanics of a movement) 2. Progression of work capacity (volume) is likely second 3. Exposure to metabolic stress seems to have some impact, but not well elucidated (you see this in blood flow restriction research). Something is happening but they cant really say what nor to what magnitude.. but its likely small in comparison to #1 and #2 Then the asterisk to the above is that ALL scenarios must occur within a relative proximity to failure in order for them to be sufficiently stimulatory for hypertrophy This obviously requires more nuance, but as an overarching framework, these are seemingly the most important considerations. To clarify on your muscle fibre to drop set comment Fouad... you've somewhat intertwined two concepts but generally speaking you can say that less load will almost always = less tension. So using 80kg to failure and then 60kg to failure is never going to create more tension. It can create more metabolic stress and it could result in greater fibre utilisation, but that fibre recruitment is the response to something referred to as the 'size principle' whereby larger motor units are recruited on an as needed basis... this typically means the heavier the load the greater the motor unit recruitment, but similarly, the closer to failure the greater the recruitment. By default of dropping the load, you will initially recruit LESS but once you enter back into the zone of the final reps, you will re-recruit as many fibres as necessary based on 'the size principle'
Partials are worthwhile in your last set, for sure. Prior to that though, it comes down to fatigue management. I could do the partials, or I could get more full reps in my next set.
