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Chicago's Highest Swimming Pool Revealed | The History of John Hancock Center 

IT'S HISTORY
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21 окт 2024

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Комментарии : 173   
@OuterGalaxyLounge
@OuterGalaxyLounge Год назад
Still my favorite modern skyscraper in Chicago. So simple yet so distinctive.
@Kropeeek
@Kropeeek Год назад
It’s nice, but AON center is better
@boogitybear2283
@boogitybear2283 Год назад
@@KropeeekAON looks like the 3rd World Trade Center.
@Mrd9960
@Mrd9960 10 месяцев назад
​@@KropeeekNot really, it doesn't have that massive presence, like the Sears does, I've seen them both in person and the Sears just blew me away with how huge it is.
@topcat1255
@topcat1255 Год назад
One of the Hancock's neighbors was the Palmolive Building (renamed the Playboy Tower when Playboy Magazine owned the structure) Atop the Palmolive Building was a high-powered, revolving beacon called the 'Lindburg Light' (again, rechristened the Playboy Beacon for a time). The 360 degree revolving beacon would provide some, probably unintentional tanning to residents of the 60th floor at Hancock. A shield was erected on the Playboy building to block the beam from striking Big John.
@jimoconnor6382
@jimoconnor6382 Год назад
"My Bodyguard " showed a lot of it.
@bryant07681
@bryant07681 Год назад
Sears Tower will always be Sears Tower, and John Hancock Center will always be John Hancock Center
@tomperry1048
@tomperry1048 Год назад
I totally agree.
@bigredd690
@bigredd690 Год назад
Period
@briansierzega
@briansierzega Год назад
And the Jewel will always be the Jewels
@adriancampos5325
@adriancampos5325 Год назад
You're not joking...I just learned like last year that it's technically not named that anymore
@steveclark6307
@steveclark6307 Год назад
Completely! I always end up saying sears, just since it sounds better.
@Mister_Ess
@Mister_Ess Год назад
The original World Trade Center, the Sears Tower, the John Hancock tower... so many beautiful, architecturally significant buildings.❤
@quieda3009
@quieda3009 6 месяцев назад
I'm born and raised in Chicagp and never knew this building changed its name and its 2024. It will always be The John Hancock Building as the Sears Tower will always be the Sears Tower.
@leejames712
@leejames712 Год назад
Kudos, Ryan, for including the Casino story. I'm from suburban Chicago and played there often. The. president of the members-only club would do just that: each time she got a letter for another offer to buy the property she would just snicker and place it with the others in the top drawer. The members were - and still are - among Chicago's wealthiest and didn't need their money.
@krisstopher8259
@krisstopher8259 4 месяца назад
I'm glad she refused to sell. Thanks to her we got one of the most iconic skyscrapers in the world
@igorslocks
@igorslocks 17 дней назад
My uncle was the assistant chief engineer at the Hancock for 20+ years and worked there for 35+. He told me all about the casino club. That's where a lot of deals were brokered
@tomperry1048
@tomperry1048 Год назад
Ryan, thanks for highlighting my favorite building.
@krisstopher8259
@krisstopher8259 4 месяца назад
would be epic to be able to live there
@boogitybear2283
@boogitybear2283 Год назад
The only Skyscraper I’ve been up Observation Deck wise and hands down, breathtaking views!
@dponzi56
@dponzi56 5 месяцев назад
Though not as high as the Sears observation deck, Hancock observation deck is way better. Is my favorite.
@laurachristianson1688
@laurachristianson1688 Год назад
One of my favorite childhood memories is my mom and I taking the train downtown to walk around and see this new marvel. We walked round and and round the loop wondering where it was……it was so tall you could not really distinguish it . We finally asked someone and they said we were there, look up 😂🤗
@matthodel946
@matthodel946 Год назад
My structural engineering professor at UIC worked on the JHB and told me that when the caissons were poured for the building, there were a total of 6 and that they used aluminum truck tankers for the pier walls, which were tigged end to end, reaching down to bedrock. When one of the corner piles was poured with concrete, it suffered from differential setting and sank something like 6". The firm he worked at surmised from calculations that the aluminum cross-section of these tanks could hold the building within safety factors and not have to rely on the concrete in the cassion and that the other remaining 5 piles could support the foundation within spec. Something to think about.
@ShannonMcDowell71
@ShannonMcDowell71 Год назад
If I remember correctly, I think the characters in "Ferris Bueller's Day Off (1986)" visited the observation of the then John Hancock Center. Thank you for your videos, always fascinating!
@brentgindelberger8851
@brentgindelberger8851 Год назад
Actually, they were at the Sears Tower instead
@ryano913
@ryano913 Год назад
Yeah was definitely the Sears they filmed in
@khunopie9159
@khunopie9159 Год назад
No, you forgot correctly
@pavelow235
@pavelow235 Год назад
Greatest Documentary on John Hancock Building yet on RU-vid. My memory is tricking the restaurant employee in the lobby to let us take the elevator to the top restaurant for a free view. Then after viewing telling the restaurant workers up top we were no longer interested in eating there. This was 30 years ago at least.
@nuclearkid3000
@nuclearkid3000 Год назад
I Sincerely Love Learning From Your Channel, While Living In Chicago. Much Love To You, Your Channel, I Love Being Your Faithful Follower! #KeepUpTheFantasticWork
@LupeHernandez-qv9xm
@LupeHernandez-qv9xm Год назад
I've been on the roof of john Hancock center. You could see the jumbe score board from Wrigley so clear and lake Michigan looks so long going north. Just an amazing site. Chicago looks so peaceful from that height just amazing. For me. Because I love Chicago so much. Thank you God for that vision
@malraz2297
@malraz2297 Год назад
Is accessing the Roof free?
@Mrd9960
@Mrd9960 Год назад
What were you doing on top of the roof? Wow!
@justhearmeout
@justhearmeout Год назад
As always a great job!! I truly look forward to your work regularly! Would you consider finding out any information about the Grace building in nyc. I'm from ny and always loved the building. Unfortunately I cannot find any substantial info online on how it was built. So I now differ to the master... you!😂😂😂
@StLouis-yu9iz
@StLouis-yu9iz Год назад
Great video as usual, you could cover the OLD Post Office in StL, sometime. It’s a great story/building (you could even cover the new one as well as it’s pretty amazing too) I’m sure your audience would enjoy. :]
@RodMzi
@RodMzi Год назад
U the man Socash coming from a Chicagoan keep it up
@markshietze4783
@markshietze4783 Год назад
an excellent video ❤🎉😊 well done ! ...love it ! keep up your Good work ❤😊
@adamfrazer5150
@adamfrazer5150 Год назад
Such an amazing city for architecture - one day I'll see it for myself 👍
@Jpkjr52
@Jpkjr52 Год назад
Thanks again John in Chicago
@axysdnyd
@axysdnyd Год назад
I spent lots of time at the JHO when I lived in Chicago 13 years ago. It was a great place to just get away and enjoy the magnificent views of the city and during the summer I watched the Navy Pier twice a week fireworks. There is a great little barista that was (might still be there) where I would often get a cappuccino and enjoy the views. Chicago still holds a special place in my heart that no other city can hold. There are times I do very much miss being in Chicago but now I live in the great state of Florida and love it very much. Orlando, Tampa, Miami and Jacksonville have quickly become my favorite big cities. Daytona Beach will always be a favorite of mine as I have many memories of going there as a kid. Great video on a really magnificent part of Chicago.
@IntriguedLioness
@IntriguedLioness Год назад
I moved from Europe to Chicago for my undergraduate studies and immediately adopted it as my new American city. I absolutely love Chicago. One thing about everyone's impression of the Gold Coast....My sophomores year I needed to be closer to the med school as I commuted between the Evanston Northwestern campus and the downtown Northwestern Hospital. I found a budget apartment on the gold coast. Since then I've lived in many cities that are used on films and I'm so used to pushing passing tourists in the gold coast was my 1st experience in the US. I lived within a few blocks of the Hancock center and my roof deck on the 16th floor had a great view looking up to the tower. There was a food court at ground level that was actually very good and I even attended a wedding reception or someone who admit their fiance in that food court read it out the entire food court! 1 of the best wedding receptions I've ever been to. One could view the break-up of the ice flow in spring if you went up to the upstairs level and I would sneak a bagel and coffee and stay for hours watching the ice break up in here in the big booms! TRIVIA: I've also been in a couple of apartments in the don heck center End this interesting to note that apartments with 1 of the cost beams on the windows was actually more expensive and preferred to the Apartments without the crossbeams. And then there's another note that that is those like Chicago will always be the Sears Tower!!!
@tortellinifettuccine
@tortellinifettuccine Год назад
Be glad you chose Chicago, the only other city in the usa that could even match it is new york, no other city in the usa is exactly a real city, most are just suburbs, parking lots, and highways, as I'm sure you've noticed if you ever started to drive out of the downtown area, or west from loyola.
@IntriguedLioness
@IntriguedLioness Год назад
@@tortellinifettuccine I chose Chicago because I wanted a typical American experience. The neighborhoods of Chicago were so like Europe with customs, food, and people. Since that time I've lived in Manhattan on the east coast, San Francisco and LA on the west. Each has their own personality, even LA. I would never have thought I would find a neighborhood experience in LA but I did!
@tortellinifettuccine
@tortellinifettuccine Год назад
@IntriguedLioness Chicago is the most American city in the country, but in the best way possible, and yes, very diversified and dense neighborhoods with rich foods and cultures, closed streets for the whole summer, etc. I consider Chicago and New York to be the only real cities in the country, but Chicago is by far my preferred city even if the cta isn't quite as good as mta, still gets me anywhere at anytime, and it's way cleaner, and way cooler. Even garbage that is la no doubt has some tiny havens, but surrounded by nothing, leaves the entire city recognized as just that, nothing. San Francisco is a bit more acceptable, but still a major disappointment. Each city having their own personality I couldn't disagree more with, all American cities are quite the same, Chicago and New York are the only two that quite differ from the rest.
@RichardGoose
@RichardGoose 4 месяца назад
That’s funny. I passed on a condo because it had a beam! Haha
@MalinaM1
@MalinaM1 Год назад
This is my favorite RU-vidr right here!
@empi1290
@empi1290 Год назад
Love love love this Chicago / Illinois history.
@ctntelevisionnetwork8738
@ctntelevisionnetwork8738 Год назад
Nice! Looking to visit it soon maybe!
@brianarbenz1329
@brianarbenz1329 Год назад
I've been on the observation decks of John Hancock (or Eight Seventy whatever) and the Sears Tower. Hancock's view is the best! I saw 4 states. Before merger mania obliterated the nation, The John Hancock Center was affectionately called Big John and the nearby Standard Oil of Indiana building was called Big Stan. Simple nomenclature in a time when those two buildings and the Sears Tower were three of the five tallest buildings in _the world._
@beddietv6139
@beddietv6139 Год назад
Signature room is a Restaurant to visit I've been there over 7 times
@mcarrusa
@mcarrusa Месяц назад
Illustrator Kirsten Ulve designed the logo for "The Signature Room" in the early 90s. It was one of the best presentations of the Hancock, and it was a logo that endured til the 95th floor restaurant closed, in 2023.
@beergeek123
@beergeek123 Год назад
Beautiful building!
@7viewerlogic670
@7viewerlogic670 Год назад
Great video.
@Backroad_Junkie
@Backroad_Junkie Год назад
My dad has pictures of the building be built someplace. I have yet to go through all his transparencies/negatives. It was an event, lol.
@jimoconnor6382
@jimoconnor6382 Год назад
I remember when the antennas were breached in 1987.......MAX HEADROOM....😮 Channel 11 and 9.
@rickgregory9616
@rickgregory9616 8 месяцев назад
For me, I will always refer to the building as John Hancock, if not just for the original naming of the building, but in memory of one of our founders, and the first signer of the Declaration of Independence. And quite frankly, for the historical standpoint, the owners should have retained the name, John Hancock. It would have not made any financial difference and would have helped their PR reputation. And the other skyscraper will always be called The Sears Tower.
@LMays-cu2hp
@LMays-cu2hp Год назад
Thank you for sharing.
@taylorlibby7642
@taylorlibby7642 Год назад
My dad lived in the Hancock when I was a kid. My little sister and I grew up swimming in that pool.
@295g295
@295g295 Год назад
pool >> 11:50 .. You could also swim at the beach of Lake Michigan
@taylorlibby7642
@taylorlibby7642 Год назад
@@295g295 Yep. 100%
@Mrd9960
@Mrd9960 Год назад
Wow cool, that pool was also shown in Poltergeist 3.
@taylorlibby7642
@taylorlibby7642 Год назад
@@Mrd9960 I didn't know that! Thanks!
@adamaizenberg756
@adamaizenberg756 Год назад
I’m just gonna show up there one day with a towel and some swim trunks, tell ‘em it’s history sent me here! 😂
@mukainoda9453
@mukainoda9453 Год назад
Empire state building, Chrysler building and John Hancock tower is the most Iconic distinctive skyscrapers in America
@oscartango2348
@oscartango2348 Год назад
My favorite memory is when some guy paid me to point my microwave dish at the top of the building for about half an hour. That was sometime in November of 1987. Crazy dude, I'm not sure what he was up to.
@Buzzywhumpa
@Buzzywhumpa Год назад
By any chance was his name Max Headroom? 🤔
@OuterGalaxyLounge
@OuterGalaxyLounge Год назад
"I still see the X." Let the Max quotes begin ...
@jimoconnor6382
@jimoconnor6382 Год назад
Before there was Fetlife, there was EXIT ...😮
@scottstempmail9045
@scottstempmail9045 11 месяцев назад
Not Capt. Midnight!
@nickjoseph6094
@nickjoseph6094 Год назад
The observation deck is free (or was forever), there's a bar at the top and this by far the best view of the city as you're able to get a clear view of the northside and it sits outside of the loop so youre able to see the whole loop as opposed to the Sears where youre at the edge of the loop to the south. Unless youre in to unobstructed views of Gary, Indiana and Naperville.
@alreppine3517
@alreppine3517 Год назад
Lived in the building in the ‘80s. The neighborhood is called Streeterville, roughly bounded by Oak Street, Michigan Ave. and the Chicago River and Lake Michigan. There was a private dining room on 44 as well as the grocery and pool. From 44 there are six residential elevators. Three service 45 to 66 or 67 (?) and 3 service 68 to 92. Parking for ~200 cars is not enough. While I was there there was a suicide of a radio station employee from 97 and a young woman supposedly pushed an armoire across a bedroom with enough force to breakout a window and dropped to her death. The ceilings are low. Less than 8 ft, except 4 floors with 11 foot ceilings as an architectural anomaly. Many of the apartments were unoccupied at any given time with people traveling or at other residences. After awhile I missed grass and trees and migrated north to Lincoln Park. Noise didn’t reach my floor, but traffic and city lights were 24/7. Great location and views obviously.
@mws3779
@mws3779 Год назад
This building always reminded me of a stun gun or a taser.
@jjwwqq
@jjwwqq 5 месяцев назад
He goes from being a high school grocery store clerk, to a college dropout (or was it high school?), to working in the merchant marines, then is a failure as a paint salesman. Starts a construction company, then boom! he’s the builder and owner of the Hancock Center in Chicago. Something tells me you could have explained that last step just a little bit more.
@MrJasonshores364
@MrJasonshores364 Год назад
I always think of Poltergeist 3 when I see this building.
@scherzox
@scherzox Месяц назад
Why were you showing shots of State street when talking about the Magnificent Mile?
@SwitchVicious
@SwitchVicious Год назад
I went and stayed out in IL for 3 months in in 2016, when it was still the John Hancock Center. I met someone on my dad's side of the family (can't remember how I'm related to her 😂) who actually ran the Cheesecake Factory at the foot of the tower(u can see the front bronze facade to the right of the plaza at the beginning of the video). She took my aunt and I to the Signature Lounge On The 95th Floor and when I say that view from that pic was nostalgic, I think we literally sat in the same area that pic was taken 😂 But fr, I'll never forget that day. I love being able to say that I've been there 😁
@colincampbell7027
@colincampbell7027 Год назад
Funny you mention beacon about the JH building as the Lindberg Beacon is on the Palmolive building close by.
@fortress1133
@fortress1133 Год назад
When I still lived in Illinois I took my now fiancé (from Long Island) to the Hancock. I have a fear of heights, but she did the tilt "ride". She also convinced me to go skydiving. To me it wasn't as scary as that. Oh yeh I now live on Long Island. The things women will do... And I couldn't be happier. And don't forget to visit the Cheesecake Factory at the base. You won't regret it!
@alexander2685
@alexander2685 Год назад
Poltergeist 👻 3 was shot here and that pool was in the movie.
@topcat1255
@topcat1255 Год назад
Not certain if it's still there but a portion of the observation deck was turned into a screened, open-air area. Because nothing spells innovative thinking like a chair link fence 1000' in the air! Gotta love Chi 🙂
@delaware137
@delaware137 Год назад
John Hancock Life Insurance is owned by Manulife, a foreign financial services company. John Hancock was one of the US Founding Fathers and his signature is prominent on the Declaration of Independence. He and his family had nothing to do with the formation of the insurance company that bears his name. I'm not sure how Manulife can claim a copywrite or a trademark infringement on the name and signature of John Hancock. Hearn should have kept the name John Hancock and told Manulife to buzz off.
@Re_RAM
@Re_RAM Год назад
What happened to between Wolman starting his company in the 1950s and launching construction of what was likely one of the most expensive builds at the time by 1964 and how did he go bust?
@DriHand
@DriHand 3 месяца назад
Bro I’ve always been scared of that elevator… that one specifically.
@standupG1
@standupG1 Год назад
I went to the 95th floor all-you-can-eat buffet around 2005 twice. I had gotten free gift cards.
@piotrmajster
@piotrmajster Год назад
Yes!
@dennisdaniels2992
@dennisdaniels2992 Год назад
John Hancock Center completed in 1970!
@Mk99987
@Mk99987 Год назад
8:08-the pneumatic caisson shown in the illustration is from 125 years ago. Modern practice uses drill rigs-faster and safer.
@mattyg4186
@mattyg4186 Год назад
“John Hancock heh 😂 its Herbie Hancock !”
@berryconway4296
@berryconway4296 3 месяца назад
My mother thought the John Hancock Building looked like a skyscraper that they forgot to unwrap.
@jetsons101
@jetsons101 Год назад
Was Sears Tower, is Sears Tower and will always be Sears Tower.......
@tomperry1048
@tomperry1048 Год назад
... Built with Craftsman tools
@ryano913
@ryano913 Год назад
Yeah can’t believe this Willis nonsense has lasted this long.
@jetsons101
@jetsons101 Год назад
@@tomperry1048 Craftsman when it was made in USA of course.
@nadacommie6235
@nadacommie6235 Год назад
you forgot to mention the time the spiderman climbed the tower, i remember seeing it with my own eyes while doing a service call to the american medical center
@scootermann83
@scootermann83 Год назад
Midtown Madness!!
@Pete.across.the.street
@Pete.across.the.street Год назад
I've been in that pool, my cousin owns 2 units there.
@girldaddividendinvestor
@girldaddividendinvestor Год назад
Tourist hack, go to straight to the Signature Lounge, save on the observatory cost. Annual birthday tradition 🎉 R.I.P. Chris Farley.
@mrnosaj71
@mrnosaj71 Год назад
My favorite skyscraper, visually in the world, I say this in 2023.
@obosumba
@obosumba Год назад
Instead of showing generic video of a construction scaffold and broken glass you could have shown the actual video of a huge window cleaning scaffold dangling and banging on the side of the building. Then crashing down and flattening a car.
@gallid19136
@gallid19136 4 месяца назад
The restaurant is permanently closed. There is a bar as part of the Chicago 360 observation deck area.
@dadboyrob
@dadboyrob Год назад
That’s not scary. Scary is getting stuck on the roof after trying to take photos and the only way down is via police escort with a nice fine at the bottom
@LucaM-c2q
@LucaM-c2q Год назад
I’ve went there last time
@Xantylon74
@Xantylon74 Год назад
Never liked the Sears Tower, John Hankock Center is much better looking!
@LucaM-c2q
@LucaM-c2q Год назад
I’ve been into there.. the restaurant I thought that would serve chicken strips and fries
@thekrls1
@thekrls1 Год назад
Building total cost is $90M, then the antennas were sold for $70M..
@gamerx23x62
@gamerx23x62 Год назад
Ain’t that’s the building on Chicago avenue
@NofaceCat
@NofaceCat 17 дней назад
You didn’t mention the girlfriend of IS Berlin, owner of the Berlin press printing company that used to print playboy his girlfriend jumping out from the 90th floor somewhere around there
@cindythorn3212
@cindythorn3212 Год назад
It also had a fire on the 50th floor on Nov. 21, 2015.......
@jimoconnor6382
@jimoconnor6382 Год назад
Really? Well, I think we know who did that now, DON'T WE!!!! CINDY DID IT!!!!
@Mrd9960
@Mrd9960 Год назад
​@@jimoconnor6382😂😂😂
@Neverhome365
@Neverhome365 Год назад
Is it scary because poltergeist 3 was filmed there? Don’t look in the mirrors!!
@dcallan812
@dcallan812 Год назад
is "Milion" a common way to spell Million? I know the US like to remove letters from some words like colour, but this is a new one to me.
@ryano913
@ryano913 Год назад
No we spell it million he had typo
@dcallan812
@dcallan812 Год назад
@@ryano913 👍👍
@MikeHarris1984
@MikeHarris1984 Год назад
Entire science/engineering fields that I never knew existed until youtube teachings came around in the past decade of use, has been around since we started building... Simple thinking about it now is "duh!" but how they did these calculations like soil settlement, soil friction, foundation design to the types of soils, and all the exact measurements and testing/wind loading by hand without computers and advanced AI demo's and such... They do real thankless jobs, where if nothing happens and the building goes up and stays and doesnt fall or anything, you did your job right and no one is thinking/knows about the 400 pilings that go hundreds of feet into the ground like roots to hold the tower up...
@Xantylon74
@Xantylon74 Год назад
17:3ß How all the ables snap? The breake are the last secrurity if everthig else fails.
@nicholasscott1803
@nicholasscott1803 Год назад
I find it annoying when you, and other creators, rename videos after they are uploaded. Always makes me think theres a new video... could just be me
@DennisFreitas-bn7nh
@DennisFreitas-bn7nh 4 месяца назад
The pyramids in Egipt no change yours names. Always the original!
@mattalbrecht7471
@mattalbrecht7471 Год назад
Did you want to go today, or no?
@vickycamarena4697
@vickycamarena4697 Год назад
There are loud creaking noises in the hallway of the top floors. Sounds like the bldg. is ripping apart. Could not live there with that.
@jimoconnor6382
@jimoconnor6382 Год назад
Its haunted
@Mrd9960
@Mrd9960 Год назад
Well Poltergeist 3 was filmed there so, who knows, lol
@Aramis419
@Aramis419 Год назад
What's "milion"?
@nathanhummel9239
@nathanhummel9239 Год назад
Funny 90 mil$ to Build in 1960's and than 70 mil$ to buy the towers on top in the 2000's lol
@freetolook3727
@freetolook3727 Год назад
I thought that if an elevator starts falling, then the braking system clamps closed and stops the elevator?
@topcat1255
@topcat1255 Год назад
The Hancock elevators are reportedly some of the largest and fastest on the planet. Hydraulics kicked in but it was the engineering excellence that allowed the cars to not only decelerate and stop, but to do so without killing passengers falling at terminal velocity.
@LucaM-c2q
@LucaM-c2q Год назад
BRUHH WHAT!?😰🪦
@BobHannent
@BobHannent Год назад
There's an H in Aesthetic
@muhammaddahlan830
@muhammaddahlan830 4 месяца назад
Trap furing, 2024🙏🙏🙏🙏
@MT-qu4bu
@MT-qu4bu Год назад
9:10 milion? million double L
@michaelwhite2823
@michaelwhite2823 Год назад
Great video as always. Ugly building.I think you mean $95 MILLION.
@claygorovoy5467
@claygorovoy5467 Год назад
Looks alot like the new one world trade center doesn't it? Babylonian monstrosity
@markhackett9379
@markhackett9379 7 месяцев назад
I worked a private Christmas Eve dinner in a Penthouse apartment. I was overwhelmed when looking out windows watching Snowfall. I had to stay away from the windows. Anyway, to this day, that party was the largest tip I ever received. 550 cash for 4.5 hours and his girlfriend did the dishes and i was allowed to drink any bottle of wine that I chose from his collection. Love that building
@silverwings11035
@silverwings11035 Год назад
This building is also famous for being in the movie poltergeist 3.
@davidfink4963
@davidfink4963 Год назад
So...rags to riches? He started out working in his dads grocery store. Do better.
@NofaceCat
@NofaceCat 17 дней назад
You didn’t mention the girlfriend of IS Berlin, owner of the Berlin press printing company that used to print playboy his girlfriend jumping out from the 90th floor somewhere around there
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