China built a 737 MAX replacement. No one wants it... 

I think COMAC built the C919 not to compete with either Boeing or Airbus because the duopoly is simply impossible to break at least in the next few decades. C919 is built for China to gain experience in building big commercial jets with the final goal of becoming less dependent on the US or the EU.

There is an important reason you didn't mention why no one outside China is ordering the C919 - certification. As far as I know, it's only certified in China (and only since 2022). EASA have said certification in Europe will be after 2026 (but haven't said how much after). FAA have not said when US certification might happen - if at all. That's just too much uncertainty for airlines to place orders. At present it can only be flown by Chinese airlines, and only on internal Chinese routes. That's still a pretty huge market to go after. That's the other factor, Cormac don't need to go after international orders right now, and probably won't need to until the end of the decade, and by then the plane could look very different, and hopefully a lot more competitive.

I mean COMAC is not even offering it outside of China, given the backlog of orders from Chinese airlines.

You missed the point completely. C919 is built to meet China's domestic needs, rather than for international market.

It doesn’t need to compete. It’s simply to reduce reliance on the duopoly whilst building a new domestic industry

There's a much larger reason for Comac's failure to get sales outside of China: politics. Comac is wholly owned by the Chinese government. Can you imagine if an airline like American or Delta put in an order for the C919? Politicians would go after those airlines for "supporting China" and not buying American or European. The US government already puts restrictions and tariffs on a wide variety of products from China; adding aircraft to that list and scoring political points isn't that difficult to believe. It doesn't matter how good or bad the C919 is, it's that it's made by a company owned by the Chinese government that makes it toxic

A mere couple of years ago the same was said about Chinese cars. Now everyone is saying that they can't compete against China.

COMAC had previously said that its C919 orders exceeded 1,000 and came mostly from Chinese airlines.

Welcome to another controversial video by Coby. Comac didn't apply to FAA or EASA or any other regulator (except Indonesia and Brunei) for certification. This means they don't want to sell C919 outside China and a few friendly countries for now. Current orders will make them busy for at least 5 years and during this time they will iron out teething problems. As a result, it is not fair to say no one wants it, because it is only for sale for limited countries. Having said so, it is neither cheaper than 737, nor better than A320 and Airbus is already working on A320neo++.

I just realised Leap 1-A for Airbus Leap 1-B for Boeing Leap 1-C for Comac

Air China just ordered 100 C919s. Chinese market itself is able to make any industry thrive, like EV's.

Orders for the C919 have been scheduled for decades.What they need to solve now is the capacity problem.

I've flown on the C919 and done extensive filmmaking with COMAC and from what I can tell they have zero interest in even trying to sell to US carriers at the moment. That's why they didn't try to certify it yet with the FAA either. Their aim is to learn and to ramp up production and take as large a share of the upcoming 8,000 narrowbodies Chinese airlines are expected to order in the next 15 years. That's also why the Leap 1C is good enough - you can cover a huge amount of routes in China with that. I expect South American and African carriers to order the C919 in a few years but am seeing this aircraft as akin to the A300, which also could not get orders in the US before AA finally did it. The goal at COMAC these last ten years has not to build the best airplane but to build an airplane. They wanted to get rolling. This reminds me of Chinese car makers, whose products sucked badly for many years and now all of a sudden with makers like BYD, NIO, Xpeng, Geely and others are making the Germans and Tesla sweat bullets in many countries. But the question is if COMAC going on a similar trajectory should bother us? I would argue that more nuance than what the "China = bad" crowd tends to yell is required: if we love aviation and want to see progress then competition is good. If they cause Airbus and Boeing to not rest on laurels so they won't be the next equivalent to a legacy car maker who lost their business (Hello, GM and Ford) in half of the countries they used to make fat profits in, then we as the customers and passengers win.

They can't buy the C919 cause its not certified in Europe or America yet, Airbus didn't sell any A300s until Eastern Airlines was offered to test the type out for example. So its too early to write the program out as a complete failure.

Just a few years ago Elon was laughing at Chinese EV's, boy that has changed.

Bad quality can no longer be an issue, Boeing is probably below COMAC's level.

Jonathan: I believe you are seriously uninformed. I’ve never heard of A-300 being addressed as a failure. Wide body comfort and twin engine economy. A first. Small niche carriers? I was a pilot w Eastern Airlines about a hundred years ago and EAL introduced this aircraft to USA. I was a crewmember on A-300 & it was awesome. Also long histories with AA, FedEx, UPS. Real niche carriers. I read 561 were built. Cutting edge at the time. Next time put your bathing suit on before you jump in the pool.

"No one wants it..." Sure... 11 built, 5 operational, 738 ordered with 120 optional. For a brand new company (that aims to build 150 per year within 5 years) and first model that is not yet certified by EASA and FSA (that takes a lot of time!) those numbers are not bad. Name another starter company in any field that has 5 or 6 years prodution already sold.

The Chinese government is known for its long-term strategic planning. When it targets a specific industry, it often aims for dominance within a couple of decades. For example, China began focusing on the electric vehicle industry in 2004, which has since grown significantly and became very competitive . Similarly, it's only a matter of time before China's commercial aviation sector becomes competitive.

Not sure what you mean on the 1 C engine. It is 11:1 bypass same as the 1A and better than the 2B at 9:1. Not well explaned.

Everybody said the same when Japanese cars first came out. Or even the A320. Give it a decade or two. Just look at their automotive, railway, and shipbuilding capabilities. Whatever your rebuttle is, the point is that China is catching up. It may be shitty now, but it’s catching up as history has shown.

I think the comac is a failure in the same way the A300 was a failure, it did not sell very well at the start, only getting some regional orders. We just have to wait some years and then we can call it a failure. And even if it doesn't sell very well, China has learned a lot from it.

The C919 is not meant to compete w/ Boeing and Airbus, at least not for many years. It aims to replace Boeing and Airbus w/ domestically produced aircraft. Every one C919 in service means one fewer order for the big two. Regional flights in China is a big market by itself. The big two losing this piece is a kick in the groin.

Exactly the same comment about made in China cars 10 years ago. Look today. Underestimate China at your own demise.

The EU also have no reason to certify the C919 to fly in European airspace, they'll want to protect Airbus and to a lesser extent Boeing.

Wonder why Embraer does not move into this category of jets. They have been launching very successful program within budget, and timing.

I'm old enough to remember when China tried to copy a Boeing 707. That was the Shanghai Y-10.

I think Embraer should make an A320/737 competitor.

I’d hesitate to call it a failure quite yet. Aside from the big domestic China routes, 3000 miles range reaches Pakistan, India, all of Indonesia, most of the interestingly mineral rich parts of Russia, Dubai at a stretch and in all, half the population of the world. That’s a pretty solid target market there. You can buy a lot of jet fuel to cover the shortfall in engine efficiency with the cash you save when you build the aircraft and then sell them to yourself, with finance from banks you also own. Adding experience and production capability along the way. I’d take it seriously already, their slow production may be from strategic development of robot construction that could leapfrog our CADCAM production technology.

China is new to this industry and needs to develop its own technology. Reliability is their first concern rather than overall efficiency for the moment.

Contrary to this video's headline, the C919 has been very successful. There are presently 933 units on order with options for an additional 120. That equates to about 10 years worth of production already booked solid.

Great video explaining the issues with the C919. Having worked in the commercial aerospace industry for the past 15+ years, another big issue that "western" airlines have with the C919 is the same issue they had with the Suhkoi Superjet 100, the support network is inadequate and dysfunctional.

Even if it’s great, no airline will touch a new plane without a robust parts network. In Mexico, Interjet had to cannibalize some of their own Sukhois just to keep others flying because they couldn’t get parts. Time will tell if they can do this domestically…

Lol you people are really afraid, aren't you. The most salient point anyone should be taking from the introduction of C919 is the fact that China, which has the largest manufacturing capacity and some of the best technological know-how has finally build a commercial airliner. This means that the western duopoly is now in danger of ceding market share and even being threaten by a newcomer. This is not bombardier from Canada or Embraer from Brazil. This is Cormac from CHINA, which is the only country that can take on the entire west in any arena, and win. C919 is not selling outside of China. But then neither was Chinese phones, EVS, solar panels, and even semiconductors, and a whole slew of stuff that the west have always thought that their dominance is unassailable. It is only a matter of time that comac will produce an airliner that has all the characteristics that airline companies desire and able to produce it faster, and cheaper than Boeing and Airbus. This is just the first step and every time China boldly steps into a new industry previously dominated by the west, we get videos like this saying ohh no one buys their product blah blah blah. 5, 10, 20 years down the road, they all shut up. You will eat your words.

Another bizarre hit piece against China when they're just trying to do what Americans and Europeans are doing - de-risk. Sorry, taking your channel off my recommends.

Not to mention, maintenance and support network that’s still yet to be developed and after sales support…. Also, good luck to those actively avoiding Boeings, they are flying everywhere. They do it for personal pride, I feel it’s not much better than Greenpeace.

Bro the jet didn’t even get certified? So until it gets certified we don’t know

One of the big advantages of doing a video on the C-919, Coby, is it racks up lots of comments from Chinese bot farms. Feels good, huh?

Not to mention that training for pilots for the new platform is going to cost everyone money as well. There's a reason airlines buy 737MAX in droves when it's released.

In all honesty, I'd have more trust flying with the C919 than any of Boeing's current products. Politics and finger pointing will be the only reason they won't succeed outside of Asia.

Is the C919 even certified to be flown outside China? Last I heard at least not in the EU and the US. As long as it isn't, no serious airline would even look at it for a second.

Comac don’t need to sell aircraft to external customers. The Chinese market on its own is massive.

Just what we need; a passenger plane made from Chinesium.

Wrong all the way. The aircraft has not been certified and may never be certified for fear of outpacing the duopoly.

I find it funny that you mentioned GallopAir's C919 order. Yes, it's a Brunei airline, BUT, if you look at its Wikipedia page, it's owned by a CHINESE businessman. So, while GallopAir is in Brunei, it's Chinese-owned. As for TransNusa, the Indonesian operator of the ARJ21, 49% of it is owned by CHINA Everbright Limited, so that airline is 49% Chinese owned. I know 51% of TransNusa is Indonesian-owned, but the point still stands. As for the OTHER foreign orders for the C919, being AerCap (20) and BOC Aviation (20), while both aren't Chinese-owned, they DO have offices IN CHINA. So.... Yeah..... Edit: I was just informed that "BOC" Aviation stands for "Bank of China" aviation, which, after research, I can confirm this, and thus the sole foreign-owned company that ordered the C919 is lessor AerCap (20), who has a location in China. As for the claims that the owner of GallopAir was actually Taiwanese-American... After looking him up, he owns an investment firm in Shaanxi, China, so he does indeed have an ulterior motive for buying the C919.

As many mentioned China is already big enough market for starters, and next I would see global south countries, South East Asia, Africa and even South America starting to get them once COMAC get the licensing, at least to fly within the region and not to Europe & US.

If I see one at me gate, I'm not going. It used to be they had to tell you on your ticket what equipment you'd be on. Not anymore. Good luck

I think you’re jumping the gun here and not really doing a good job of explaining the real situation. Comac is not approved in the EU or US, so that cuts out a ton of potential customers. As others have commented, Honda was laughed at in the early days in the US, now they are well respected.

You didn't mention pilot training. This is a major reason airlines rarely switch between Airbus & Boing and a large factor in the two 737 max incidents

Even with these latest antics, I'd rather fly on a Boeing or Airbus than a comac 😨

I flew on the C919 from Chengdu to Shanghai in August 2023, as soon as the plane landed and parked, there was a swarm of engineers around the plane checking the body for any faults. COMAC are really in the testing stage with this plane model and are years away from any meaningful mass production IMHO

I wonder why the Embraier and Bombardier won't step in. I mean, they have decades of experience building planes. I am not saying that they can compete head-to-head with the two giants but if there will ever be a need for a third player, a more experienced company stands a better chance

And what about certification ? Is the plane certify to fly outside of China yet ?

The main problem with the C919 is not technical -- its political. Western airlines don't want to associate themselves too closely with China. China could also buy aircraft parts (engines, etc.) from Russia, which has a well established aircraft industry. Would I fly on a Comac? Sure. Why not. Many westerners have already done so.

It is not COMAC, it is COMIC.

There is a general stigma against Chinese products, including planes. To see how successful it is, we need to give it 10 years to see the results. And I, for one, am optimistic about COMAC

Sincerely, China is no stranger to manufacturing civilian commercial airliners, the Chinese aerospace industrial complex has been doing it for more than 70 years, initialy their production focused on licensed Soviet designs, later they started to work their own indigenous designs for its domestic market. What COMAC is doing is attempting to replicate the requirements of foreign airlines, passangers and certification agencies, to compete with them in the future. I think that the 10 aircrafts produced thus far, are prototypes used to hammer down the kinks necessary to obtain international certification. I think their goal of 140 planes per year by the turn of the decade is a very conservative goal, but it's to promise a lower production target and deliver above to expectations, than to promise great many things and fail to deliver. I think they would reach those figures a couple years earlier. In the end, they probably aren't expecting these planes to be their first big international hit, but as a learning step for it to gain the know how to design products with western standards in mind. Also don't dismiss the fact that COMAC's clients are all companies owned by the Chinese Government, that also owns COMAC, because the Chinese market is huge, and the number of current orders for this plane alone makes it a successful program, how many North and South American, European, Australian and Japanese designs were considered a commercial success with far less units sold than that? You may say that doesn't reflect its standing on the international markert, or among non-Chinese airlines, sure it really doesn't, but the government's money is as good as anyone else's. Both Airbus and Embraer started the same way, making planes for state owned airlines and/or the military, that eventually drew enough atention to the products they used to enter the market, that their next generation designs became hits on international sales. I think what COMAC is doing is more or less the same, but with a starting backlog of orders that neither Airbus, nor Embraer, could even dream about, when they were desining their first generation of products.

China needs to prove that their planes are reliable. That takes time. Japanese made cars weren’t popular in the U.S. 60 years ago, but over time their lower costs and reliability made them popular. Now Japanese made cars are just as expensive as American and European made cars and probably more popular.

It’s the mentality like this keep Chinese wining

This is the same shit westerners said about their cars.

Chinese are actually quite smart, building their own jet for themselves. Less reliant on others

Sorry but they have around 900 booked planes to produce - how many 737 MAX has BOING in progress?

I would love to see these bird fly in the states. The way I see it competition is a healthy way of improving technology and let's be honest you can't discard someone's achievement just like that.

Moreover some general downsides of C919: 1) poor assembly quality 2) spare parts delivery 3) can be hit by sanction In this circumstances you had to be crazy to choose this plane for your fleet.

What a massive mistake it was to allow Boeing to buy MD.

For your info they already have 1200 orders mostly chinese airlines.Why not buy and fly your own instead of buying max that crashes?.

It’s not important if they sell outside of China for now. It’s important they have local airlines flying them and, in the mean time, they learn how to improve and perfect it. Is a long term strategy.

The FACT is: No one wants BOEING now. Another whistleblower is dead by "accident".

Unfortunately, it is "No one wants it" issue, it is "no one can get it" problem, only five C919 get out of the production line so far. It will take circa two years to complete the fabs and bring the "pulse production lines" up to full production rate - around 200 per year. provided, the parts from foreign suppliers are abundant. well guess no one, include COMAC, anticipates the collapse of Boeing in such a fast pace.

The china market and the global south market is more than big enough to sustain comac for many years. Look that happened to the car industry.

I think the main reason why COMAC aren't selling the C919 is the risk of US-driven sanctions. With lots of foreign-made parts in the C919, including engines and avionics, it would make little sense for COMAC to ramp up production now, and put them and their customers at the mercy of Washington. Note that also non-US companies can be and have been forced by the US to limit sales and services to China, e.g., Dutch ASML for semiconductor production, or Taiwanese TSMC for actual chips. Meanwhile, another Chinese company, AECC/ACAE, is working on a new, China-made engine, the CJ-1000A. According to Wikipedia, they're flight-testing it now, but don't expect to deploy it before 2030. Which just happens to be when COMAC expect to start selling the C919. For now, Comac have all the time in the world to perfect their design, which includes replacing parts from foreign sources, and also to monitor how the few planes that are in commercial operation perform. And maybe they have a few ideas about making the design a little more efficient, too. By the way, COMAC also make a smaller aircraft, the MD-80-like ARJ21, which they do mass-produce, although in comparably small number. This means that they do have some experience with aircraft production, and don't have to start from zero.

What about the Russian passenger jets, Tupelov, Illushin, and Antonov? Do Russians sell their airplanes overseas, besides Cuba (to my knowledge)? I personally flew in the Cubana airline’s Illushin 62M, and back then in 1979, when I flew in that plane, was a very modern and competent jet able to fly non-stop between Moscow and Havana.

The COMAC C919 airliner is not currently certified to fly outside of China.

Pretty obvious cause they don’t have many people who know about the planes and spare parts are only in China so no point in getting

No one wants it? Their product line is running 7/24 and COMAC is planning to expand their new product lines in Chengdu and Xian.

C919 just came online. There is still a very long way to go before COMAC can even lift up the production power. If you play order today it will take a few years to complete.

I think COMAC will be a lot like Airbus was in its early days. “A government run program that may sell a few dozen jets and then file for bankruptcy.” A former Boeing executive claimed that about Airbus in the mid 1970s and now look how far Airbus has come. By the mid to late 1980s Airbus was a MASSIVE SUCCESS & even helped break up the Boeing McDonell Douglas duopoly in the 80s and by the late 90s Airbus was a major player in the aviation industry and even helped lead to the demise and eventual bankruptcy of McDonell Douglas merging with Boeing in 1996. Perhaps COMAC 🇨🇳 will be the next “Airbus like startup” and eventually become a major player and maybe even lead to the demise & insolvency of Boeing. It seems very likely, especially since Boeing is experiencing many of the same problems that were associated with McDonell Douglas and its eventual bankruptcy. Poor quality control, a bad safety culture and lawsuits and litigations against the company about their lackluster safety and deaths of family members from a few fatal accidents! 😱 I believe the 737 MAX will be the DC-10 of Boeing and all the conditions line up for this and for Boeing’s eventual failure! ☠️

C-919 means 91% foreign parts and 9% local parts. So much for the term "homegrown."

Boeing just needs to put engineers in charge. Not some dumb executives with a business degree

If you peel off the C919 sticker, will you see a Boeing emblem?

Some airlines might not want to be seen buying jets directly from the CCP…

I think the author might be confused. It is the 737 that is not selling well. The Airbus is filling the gap, while the C919 is waiting for the new Chinese built jet engine to achieve certification. It has a full order book.

Your comments about the LEAP-1C are incorrect. The LEAP-1C is every bit as efficient as the LEAP-1A and LEAP-1B. The core of the LEAP-1C is the same, part for part, as the LEAP-1A. It bears no relationship to the CFM56.

They expect me to get on a Chinese airplane? And have it leave the ground? Are they mad?

There's a difference in baking a cake according to recipe and creating a new recipe. So is the case with engineering: It is a difference whether China just builds what other foreign corporations tell them to, or whether they actually create a new design. They are efficient in the first, but totally incompetent in the second case. Just ask Xiaomi and their SU7 EV.

It's a matter of time if you want Chinese lucrative air travel market, the west will be subdue to provide certification reciprocally. Otherwise, western airlines will also be banned from entering China airspace for airworthiness reason.

Why are airlines not buying the E2?

After seeing the quality of their buildings there’s no way I would trust China made .

Steven He: "HAIYYYYAAAAAAAAA FAAAAIIIIILLUUURRREEEEEEE"

Absolutely ignorant video and same ignorance in comments under it. So typical for the Western audience who don’t understand that the time of the American and European success is going to its end and countries like PRC and India are able to deliver good products in different forms. First it doesn’t mean that Chinese airliners will replace Boeing and Airbus aircrafts completely but they will for sure make a strong competition on the Chinese domestic market and also on the market of developing countries. If someone looks at the history Japanese products it will be absolutely clear that they were not that successful at the beginning, same as products from ROK. but what is happening now? Where are all those American and European famous brands from 30s-80s? They are almost all disappeared and now we just see brands from Asia.

no one wants a last gen inefficient plane. it cost just as much as it's competitors.

"No one wants it" are you talking about Boeing ? 🤥

The '3rd option' would be Embraer, not Comac.

1200 orders and yet this channel claimed nobody wants it. 😂😂😂

Well, the realistic competitors for a 3rd in the market are Embraer and Bombardier, as those two build commercial aircraft in numbers and for decades already. They just don't have a model ready for this sudden occasion. Embraer is growing fast for years though.

All orders are from government related companies. No airlines outside of China will take the risk of flying it even if it was certified (which could be never!).

I wouldn't write of china just yet... If their planes turn out to be reliable, fuel efficient and selling at a fair price, profit chasing companies would 1000% jump ship to "cut costs". 💁🏾‍♀️ Individual Americans may frown on Chinese made products, but corporations could care less.

Even their airlines opted for Airbus & Boeing

The way the speaker is "excitedly" running down comac. He says about c 919 being inefficient, but it is stated by comac that it us more efficient than existing planes elsewhere.

China is huge and biggest aviation market. So there is nothing wrong to start form China first. They have decades of job just there later they can progres to world.