As a fellow women, I feel pity towards empress Hu who was living peacefully in the grassland suddenly became empress but ended up being deserted and unloved. She's quiet, she bore the emperor 2 daughter, she let consort Sun's son became the crown prince, she never make any mistake yet the emperor still want to depose her. She even agreed when the emperor want her to resign. Girl did nothing wrong and just chill at everything. Everyone is making ruckus about her title while she just sat enjoying her tea watching the fire burns around her lmao
In my pinion, I read some history of The 5th Ming Emperor and Empress: Hu was too weak., Doesn't have leadership skill and not strong enough to help him in case of an emergency. Sun, on the other hand; has the leadership skill and was tough enough to withstands the out comes of any problems. Hence, after he passed away, she helped the country fought wars and protecting the country while her son is growing up.
True I guess he considered her as too boring and she wasn’t that entertaining, if that’s the case then it’s understandable cuz nobody would like to have a partner like that 😅
To be fair, Sun entered his harem first, having groomed from very young age to be the wife of emperor (hence could never consider a marriage proposal from other guy). It's just bad luck that the grandpa emperor decided to go with his dream and simply pluck another girl from nowhere. Hence I wouldn't consider Zhu Zanji as same level as Henry VIII, more like he's trying to give Sun the recognition she deserved.
He has a better reputation? All wives of Ming emperors are from relatively average family, so they don’t have strong families to back them up. Without interest relationship, ministers don’t mind the emperor do whatever he wants.
I believe it’s because the last movie the company did was discarded by China movie censor ( legendof yanxi ). Says they don’t want people to see China history as bad. I feel they are just being cautious.
Da Ming Feng Hua ("Ming Dynasty") was really the best one I've seen about Ming Dynasty in years. Especially the male characters. I was disappointed with Royal Feast's story line. Both vary with their adaptation but I adore Ming Dynasty's take of Zhu Zhanji and Sun Rouwei.
@@cassball7 the whole ruowei running away with xu bin thing.. its nice on paper but i think theres barely chemistry between them.. i was so invested in ruowei and zhanji cp though their son is pr disappointing
🤔 I thought when the Emperor died, all of his consorts/concubines were sent to a temple/nunnery to live until they died...It's surprising to know they were all killed and buried with him...thanks for this video! I love watching 💜
@@sydneyw9407 i think this only happens up until around the end of ming dynasty. Still really horrible though, as much as i love my husband I don't want to be buried with him when I'm still clearly alive
@@Zaynesjasmine no. It ended after the consort turned Empress of this emperor killed all but one of his remaining consorts after his death. Their son (Emperor Yingzong) although being a very controversial figure abolished the practice of killing and sacrificing the consorts after his death (in an attempt to protect his Empress who was under threat by his consort who was the biological mother of his successor ).
In Ottoman Harem, when a Sultan died, they killed all the Sons except of one who took the Throne (to prevent Civil War). The old Concubines were kept in "the Palace of Tears" aka the old Palace. Females did not have much Rights in Turkey anyway?! 😢 In Chinese Harem and also in India I guess they killed the Wifes to follow the dead Emperor. What a cruel Behaviour!!! I wish we - Mankind - can agree to let People live, cause Life is precious. ♡♡♡ There also should not be any Wars anymore! No Person should be forced to kill another!! 😢 😢 😢 I can imagine Psychotherapy for State Leaders who want to start War. Who risk his own Life and the Life of Others clearly need Therapy!!! They can have various Pills for better Sleep and relax? 😀 👍 👍 What an Experiance Life is!!! To have a Conscious. To mind, to Love, to see, ... so many Possibilities to learn. Happiness is what we are here for. Let's celebrate. ❤️❤️❤️
@@evasavonith6234 in the Chinese harem, they usually would not kill the wives of the previous emperor. Some dynasties have them sent to live with their sons (princes) who would have been granted a specific land (according to the son's title- it's kind of like a small kingdom on their own where their mother which were consorts would be regarded similar to that of the emperor’s mom...But they still had to obey the central govt which was the Emperor), some dynasties have the wives without children sent to into temples or shrines to become a nun like figure, and many more. The practice of sacrificing the wives after the Emperor’s death was really uncommon. You would get some accounts of this here or there but it was later popularised by the early Ming but later abolished by Emperor Yingzong. To understand the sacrificing of these concubines, usually the Empress really had a say in who was to be exempt...I know Empress Zhang sentenced around 5 to death but exempted the rest of her husband's concubine. But Empress Sun killed all her husband's concubine with the only exception of Wu which I think was likely due to Empress Zhang's influence over her because Wu and her child was only recognised officially by the Emperor before he died so she was probably exempted because she gave birth to his son. I do know Zhang and Sun didn't have a happy relationship which some questioned as she was technically from Zhang's side of the family, I have seen some speculating that Sun has somehow whitewashed herself in historical records with the picture of how she and her husband were childhood sweethearts since she entered the palace but one must know that her husband was the favourite grandson of Emperor Yongle so he was not under his mother's (Zhang) care at a very young age as Emperor Yongle personally kept him by his side...So lovey dovey childhood sweetheart romance was not really possible. But who knows what the truth is? It is documented that officials at the time opposed Hu's dethronement and how her son resumes Hu's title as Empress many years after Hu's death might hint that she wasn't really one to easily interact with. Still, no one can deny that the Emperor really did love her or at least adored her (cuz although he showed how he loved her, he still maintained his playboyish character of making many women his concubines later on...I would say no devotion but definitely treated her above the other wives). So I really have a problem with how Royal Feast tries to whitewash her into this person who stood up for concubines and wanted them to be exempted from death...That was clearly not the case in history as she willingly signed and sentenced all her husband's concubines' death (only Wu was exempt). Also she later actually agrees to dethrone her son's Empress (who he loved dearly) when consort Zhou (mother of her son's elder son who would later become Emperor) on the grounds that the Empress didn't bore the Emperor any children but was rejected by Emperor Yingzong who later took many means to try protect his Empress even after he died (abolishing the practice of concubine or wife sacrifices was one of his attempts). You can really Google how his Empress met a really bad end after his death as Consort Zhou was against many things Emperor Yingzong declared before his death...And used the excuse that she was the mother of the next Emperor as an excuse to achieve her goals...So Yingzong initially wanted his Empress to be buried with him when she died of old age but history documents how Consort Zhou deceives the officials and has herself buried near the Emperor whilst blocking all paths for his Empress to reach him in the after life (one can see the neglect and maltreatment of Empress Qian by Consort Zhou and son after Yingzong's death)
China’s history is just phenomenal. During my life there wasn’t much interest in China but a great deal of interest in Egyptian archaeology, Mayan Greek and Persian history. very little from China. When China was in the news it was due to its political systems and problems. Thanks to videos like this I am now totally fascinated with the history, the dynasties, culture and artwork; for me it’s amazing and beautiful. The country has a savage history of tribal wars but somehow the Chinese people endured. In today’s world I find their work ethic impressive, they work hard and above all appreciate education. I am saving up to go to this amazing country.
That ex-Empress Hu was conferred the title "Immortal Teacher of Quietude and Motherly Love", could be interpreted as the Emperor's way of keeping her quiet; not to scandalise him or the imperial court. Clever of emperor to grant her equal status and privileges as his long-time love, as a compromise or compensation. There're many more perspectives, nuances and implications of such a title that couldn't be covered in sufficient depth in this brief space, e.g. "Motherly Love"? Shouldn't this be the Empress Dowager's role? Can understand why the Empress Dowager was upset. Wonder what happened to the astrologer who contributed (however unwittingly or unintentionally it might be) to separating the Emperor from his true and original love? As events turned out, it was Empress Sun, his original love who eventually contributed to the stability of the Ming Dynasty and not Empress Hu by arranged marriage. In this case, it seems that enduring love prevailed over astrology. 🤣😂
Questions; On the 5th Ming Emperor, I'm puzzled to why he only have children with Hu and Sun? He has many Concubines. Notes: one history said Hu had two daughters and Sun has one daughter and a Son. Which one is correct the correct answered?
Fascinating 🏆 I can recall many facts that are in some of the Chinese Historical Dramas, though they added other information to make a good series. I always enjoy watching your videos. 💝🇺🇸
Glad you are back. You haven’t posted in a while. Hope all is well. Was it common in Ming dynasty for concubines to be buried with the emperor? And can you please try and post often maybe once or twice a week I really enjoy your content.
Sadly it was a common practice in the Ming dynasty.. Thanks so much for your support! I love discussing history with you all too! Hope I have more time to upload more frequently going forward
In several historical C-drama's about the royal family's harem this practice is mentioned. E.g. In Promise of Chang'An, Ming dynasty (Ming Empress) and Royal Feast.
@@realmofthesenses Promise in Chang'an occurs in a fictional dynasty though. This practice occurred to the concubines after the death of the early Ming Emperors and would only be abolished by Emperor Yingxong of Ming. There were previous practices of this before the Ming but it really depended in the Emperor so it was really uncommon. After this was abolised by the Ming, it was still practiced by minorities of China eg by the Manchus where the founder of the Qing- Hong Taiji sentenced and sacrificed his father’s concubine after his father's death.
She was a consort and she gave him children, one became emperor twice(yingzong). They are levels in the harem. Even before the burial of concubines was abolished, her title in the harem and whether or not she had bore any princes/princess will be taken into consideration. If all concubines(with or without titles) were buried with the emperors, they wouldn't be any grand empress dowager(zhang) or empress dowager(sun) in the cdrama ming dynasty, xuande emperor crosses her name out from the burial list.
Oh this is Zhu Zhanji from royal feast I know all what was said was historicly registred yet i dont sympathize for empress Hu...maybe the drama effect I like empress Sun...she is wise and this is clearly shown with the help she gave to solve political issues when her son was emperor I think deeply Emperor depose empress Hu for a reason not for Sun noble consort...he was wise and intelligent
@@jLachelle3 yes, i have watched that drama too.. it was more serious than royal feast but idk weather Ming Dynasty is more historically a reliable source or not.. bcs afterall they are all the same.. "drama"..
@@mirchan6174 both are very inaccurate in their various aspects. Attempts of whitewashing the consort turned Empress (Empress Sun) and vilifying Empress Hu in their own versions. However one cannot deny that the Emperor did really love his consort thus dethroning his Empress but as one can see, his act was deemed ethical and moral by the Ming scholars. This shows how inaccurate Royal Feast is in its portrayal of Sun as a loving and peaceful woman who tried to protect concubines of the previous Emperor from being sacrificed. In history, she alone sentenced more than 10 concubines to death as human sacrifices for her husband. That was basically all her husband's concubines except Wu (probably because she was mother to second prince of the Emperor) Her mother in law (Empress Zhang) sentenced 5 if I remembered correctly. However, one cannot deny the Emperor's affection to Sun (the attempts of him trying to dethrone his innocent Empress who was at no wrong with excuses of her being ill, not providing a male heir etc when his Empress was only around her 20s and had bored him 2 princesses already...Upon being denied this in court...He asked the Empress to say that she was incompetent of being the Empress and thus voluntarily asked to be dethroned...Once she did so he made Sun the Empress in less than 3 months)...Although he loved her, he did not devote himself only to her...Or remain loyal to her. He had around ten concubines who would all be sentenced to death except one(Wu). The only Chinese Emperor known to be devoted and Loyol to his Empress (ie practiced monogamy) was Emperor Xiaozong of the Ming...however, their love story is not portrayed by the historical dramas...They have been side characters of one or two series
Yes. If any cdrama decide to impersonate any Emperor of any dynasty, it is a compulsory made by the government that important events/timeline must be followed. Only unrelated event/side character that do not effect the history are allowed to be altered.
Is it related to the chinese drama I am watching? Royal Feast.. coz the people mentioned above were the same and the plot of the story.. Thanks for sharing!
Empress "Sun" is pronounced as "Soon" and not any other interpretations. Empress Hu was her younger biological long lost sister. Senior Consort Sun was the "heir apparent" to the Empress Throne, while Consort Hu was a palace assistant Executive maid who bribed her way to the Consort position. Empress Hu has no love relationship with the emperor. Empress Sun bore the emperor the first born prince hence her status changed forever.
I am watching royal feast the crown princess tried to drink many herbal drinks to have a child but personally I don't think she was ever intimate with the prince. The crown prince royal grandson Zhu Zanji had a son and a daughter with Sun.
I've read alot of webtoon and manga have this type of, well it became a trope at this point. Where the emperor dethrone his own empress for his consort. But I guess know now there's actually have a historical references or similarly to it.
Thanks for this story! I am wondering, except for the good luck argument, was really justified the choice of Hu as empress - she was actually born 1 year later than Sun, so it's strange Sun was considered too young for marriage?
Honestly, this whole thing could have gone down very, very wrong if the two women weren't as decent of human beings as they were. Sun had every right to feel outraged that the position promised to her was taken away by a girl who didn't even have much of a background. Similarly, Hu had every right to feel angry and wronged that her empress title was stripped for no good reason, especially as being deposed of as a wife is an incredibly shameful thing for the woman. The emperor and the empress dowager's favoritism would have exacerbated the situation, as it would have made them ever more jealous of each other. Even if they weren't palace women who had to outcompete each other to make sure they're not killed to accompany the emperor after his death (having kids helps, but the only truly safe position is to become empress dowager), it's still quite a miracle that they didn't end up tearing each other's throats out.
